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Heroes of the Storm - Is the hate real?

MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,120
Hey guys,

I'm old and slow.  Have been for a while now.  I've avoided MOBA's because of this...I understand that in most of them, I would be torn apart verbally by my teammates for my suckage.  Does this hold true for HotS, too?  Or is it played by a more casual, relaxed, kinder bunch?

Thanks for any info!
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Comments

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179


    Hey guys,

    I'm old and slow.  Have been for a while now.  I've avoided MOBA's because of this...I understand that in most of them, I would be torn apart verbally by my teammates for my suckage.  Does this hold true for HotS, too?  Or is it played by a more casual, relaxed, kinder bunch?

    Thanks for any info!


    I've played around 500 games and maybe 10 of those had toxicity in it, honestly I can't remember the last time I had issues with a player. Against the AI, players won't say much of anything, though some are there for quick wins while others will actually talk a bit and socialize, its definitely casual. Quickmatch or Brawls against players, you're unlikely to run into any toxicity as well. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but on those modes I mentioned, it isn't common.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695
    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: Blackfield by Blackfield from Blackfield (2005)
    • Currently Playing: Devil May Cry 1
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
    • Gaming Timeline: Arcade, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, SEGA, IBM, PS, PC, PS2, More PCs, PS3, Giant PC, PS4, No More PCs, PS4 Pro.
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member EpicPosts: 3,120
    OK, thanks guys.  Hmm, yeah, I mean, I'm not a very competitive PvP type.  I'd definitely be playing it casually.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,779
    Just play against the AI for fun.
    No hate there unless you completely ignore spawning objects.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,092
    It has over a dozen maps, each with different objectives.  So it's probably the best if you want to play casually and not get bored quickly.  Not a big fan of Mobas myself.
    Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing).  German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century.  Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now).  I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things).  In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while.  If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.

    Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this.  If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own.  Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis.  Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,496
    edited May 2017




    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 





    While lack of depth is true for HotS - which is aimed at casuals, Dota2 and LoL have a ton of depth as far as team PvP arena games go.

    HotS is a bike with the training wheels on, once you are ready to take the wheels off you go play Dota2 or LoL.

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,695

    DMKano said:





    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 





    While lack of depth is true for HotS - which is aimed at casuals, Dota2 and LoL have a ton of depth as far as team PvP arena games go.




    I know mate, I am a LoL vet. I didn't mean the lack of depth on PvP part, but anything else. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Song of the Week: Blackfield by Blackfield from Blackfield (2005)
    • Currently Playing: Devil May Cry 1
    • Favorite Drink: Bruichladdich Black Art 5th 1992
    • Gaming Timeline: Arcade, Commodore 64, Amiga 500, SEGA, IBM, PS, PC, PS2, More PCs, PS3, Giant PC, PS4, No More PCs, PS4 Pro.
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,179

    DMKano said:







    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 







    While lack of depth is true for HotS - which is aimed at casuals, Dota2 and LoL have a ton of depth as far as team PvP arena games go.

    HotS is a bike with the training wheels on, once you are ready to take the wheels off you go play Dota2 or LoL.



    Still waiting on people to explain how Dota 2 and LoL have depth.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 22,496




    DMKano said:








    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 







    While lack of depth is true for HotS - which is aimed at casuals, Dota2 and LoL have a ton of depth as far as team PvP arena games go.






    I know mate, I am a LoL vet. I didn't mean the lack of depth on PvP part, but anything else. 



    Wel of course its not going to have the depth of a RPG, thats the whole point its 100% about PvP.

    If LoL and Dota2 had RPG depth they wouldnt have tens of millions of players
  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    I was pretty bad in LoL I got cursed out when playing a support role. I was too slow and I did not understand the game and last hitting . I realised I could never be any good at it because of the point click and the way I had to keep clicking the skills was simply too much for my old hands.
    image
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,358

    Aori said:



    DMKano said:










    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 









    While lack of depth is true for HotS - which is aimed at casuals, Dota2 and LoL have a ton of depth as far as team PvP arena games go.

    HotS is a bike with the training wheels on, once you are ready to take the wheels off you go play Dota2 or LoL.





    Still waiting on people to explain how Dota 2 and LoL have depth.


    Dota 2 and LoL have a "ton of depth" because people like DM Kano keep saying they have a ton of depth.

    When you repeat something enough times you believe it to be true.

    Same reason why HotS has a "lack of depth"
  • knetikknetik Member UncommonPosts: 5
    @MightyUnclean I dont particularly like HoTS all that much just due to being so familiar with LoL and DOTA styles, but the community is IMMENSELY LESS toxic.
  • mezhumezhu Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited May 2017


    knetik said:


    @MightyUnclean I dont particularly like HoTS all that much just due to being so familiar with LoL and DOTA styles, but the community is IMMENSELY LESS toxic.




    The community is just as bad. It's just Blizzard has this policy of punishing even the slightest criticism or actually anything that someone might interpret as offensive, and such a policy is enforced via a largely flawed, fully automated system. This results in people actually being afraid to communicate with their team, in fear of potentially being spite-reported out of nowhere, and such an issue is extremely prevalent at higher levels of play.

    I'm not even going to bother arguing about gameplay depth because obviously the thread's participants are quite apparently largely uneducated about what consitutes depth, and there's a hell of a lot of echo chambering happening around. Not the most fertile ground for any sort of a discussion.
    Post edited by mezhu on
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,779
    edited May 2017


    mezhu said:





    knetik said:



    @MightyUnclean I dont particularly like HoTS all that much just due to being so familiar with LoL and DOTA styles, but the community is IMMENSELY LESS toxic.






    The community is just as bad. It's just Blizzard has this policy of punishing even the slightest criticism or actually anything that someone might interpret as offensive, and such a policy is enforced via a largely flawed, fully automated system. This results in people actually being afraid to communicate with their team, in fear of potentially being spite-reported out of nowhere, and such an issue is extremely prevalent at higher levels of play.

    I'm not even going to bother arguing about gameplay depth because obviously the thread's participants are quite obviously largely uneducated about what consitutes depth, and there's a hell of a lot of echo chambering happening around. Not the most fertile ground for any sort of a discussion.




    You win the prize for the most biased post this weekend.
    "Fear of communicating" "fully automated system" "spite-reported"

    Seeing your post as a whole gives me a fair idea why you are used to being reported.
    Post edited by Dakeru on
    Harbinger of Fools
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 3,336
    The hate for HotS is real yes, its community is pretty good however. Lots of people also confuse 'convulted' with 'depth,' especially in the case of MOBAs.

    Great game, easy to learn, hard to master. Unless you're one of the top tier players, of which we apperently have quite a few over here.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
  • khameleonkhameleon Member UncommonPosts: 484


    In my opinion, MOBAs have no depth as a video game. Unless you want to play intensive PvP and move up the ladder, time is better spent doing something else. 

    There is much depth in learning how to play 50+ characters and growing weekly and fleshing out your collection of loot(skins, characters, mounts, banner, emojis, portraits, etc.) and learning the maps, over 10 already. 

    Not many games have more to learn and collect than this one. Its just some cannot handle competition and losing well... 

    GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!

  • Mouloxtos85Mouloxtos85 Member UncommonPosts: 65
    edited May 2017
     The most toxic behaviors are met when you are playing casual - unranked games sadly.. I have no idea why this is happening but I would have to guess that since those matches don't ''matter'' statwise on the claimed perfect record of all the pro players (yes, in mobas everyone is having sex with your mom and apparently everyone is pro except you) that's why players tend to behave with the worst possible attitude they could have.

     I am not saying that everyone is being toxic but if that happens in 8-9 games out of 10 , yeah that is a deal breaker.. One solution is to team up or queue up as they say with friends (irl or virtual) that have some tolerance towards you and your mistakes and you on theirs. It makes the game actually fun most of the times. Also if you enjoyed playing with someone , add them ; chances are they also are looking for buddies to play with.

     Lastly , another solution is to mute all the negativity immediately and simply don't care about it. Do your thing, learn from your mistakes and don't let anyone make you feel bad about your invested free time - attempt on having fun.

  • mezhumezhu Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited May 2017



    Dakeru said:







    snip



    1. You somehow drew the conclusion I was being reported, please explain how.
    2. You somehow also drew the conclusion that I even deserved getting reported, please explain how.
    3. What's biased about my post? Have you even ever played in high leagues (or even HotS in general) to know what I'm talking about?
     
    There were many cases over the last few years of people being silenced for no reason whatsoever. I recall a friend playing with all communications disabled, as he found himself too easily distracted by chat. He got silenced for 'abusive chat', despite never actually using the chat. I also can recall another friend getting silenced for 'abusive chat' when he performed the /dance emote at the enemy team's core. Another guy I used to play with actually got silenced for picking Abathur (a hero that's shunned by the high-tier players) in GM League 5 games in a row, despite never saying anything to anyone during these games. Now, I know you want to dismiss these as anecdotal evidence and whatnot, but before you do, just spend a couple of minutes actually checking the community's opinion over the automated silence feature. I'll help you get started since I'd rather your next response be an actual argument instead of a personal attack :)

    Ref:
    1. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20752511679
    2. https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5c8knp/2_day_silence_for_picking_gazlord_in_hlwith/
    3. https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/5ro99t/new_gm_policy_on_silences_we_let_the_community/
    4. https://us.battle.net/forums/en/heroes/topic/20753159027
    You may call me names and praise the HotS community all you want. Fact remains; the general consensus in higher league games is to avoid communicating whatsoever, and still be prepared to face silences just because you'll eventually accrue enough random reports (for whatever reason, ranging from failing to pick the hero a teammate expected you to, to stomping an enemy stack hard enough for them to want to spite you, to actually flaming or harassing someone). It is given that players that tend to play many games of hero league on a daily basis get to send a silence appeal once every month- such problems are unnoticed by casual players that stick to QM or play few games far apart from one another.



    Post edited by mezhu on
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,779
    edited May 2017
    Did you even read those posts?

    The first is some guy being jealous because a streamer got a faster answer than he did himself.

    In the second they are clearly criticizing him for his lack of communication when he picked Gaz rather than discussing a good draft.

    The third.. "which is not surprising if you try to actually call shots; people hate to be bossed around, even if it is needed to win, and even if you actually lead them to the win." that guy is just so full of himself.
    But I'm sure he was giving them the "needed bossing around" in a polite and friendly tone.

    And thread 4:
    "Knowing my own chat is silence worthy, I estimate 95% of the player base should also be silenced."
    That one speaks for your hate theory at least but why you list something like that as credible source is only for you to know.

    Harbinger of Fools
  • mezhumezhu Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited May 2017
    The first example showcases a streamer getting banned on-stream without actually having misbehaved in any way.
    The second example is a punishment for abusive chat when in fact there wasn't any.
    In the third example some guy got silenced for 'being full of himself', your words. You also do seem arrogant and agressive in your manner of conversation ('did you even read those posts?'), yet you're still freely posting :)
    The fourth example is actually pretty indicative of how people learned to play around the system and it's one of many, posted by a number of different players over time.

    What is a credible source for a system not behaving properly other than users' experiences with it? What would you expect me to post to convince you you're wrong? What is your own credible source of a 'good community' other than your own experiences? You still did not answer any of my previous post's questions either.
  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,176
    exceptions do not make the rule.
  • mezhumezhu Member UncommonPosts: 24

    Horusra said:

    exceptions do not make the rule.

    Definitely- yet the frequency of incidents of wrong silences, and the impact these have on how the game plays at higher levels is far from negligible.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,779

    mezhu said:
    What is a credible source for a system not behaving properly other than users' experiences with it?


    You are my credible source.

    mezhu said:

    You also do seem arrogant and agressive in your manner of conversation ('did you even read those posts?'), yet you're still freely posting :)





    Apparently I speak my mind and I haven't received any silences yet.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,113
    Hey guys,

    I'm old and slow.  Have been for a while now.  I've avoided MOBA's because of this...I understand that in most of them, I would be torn apart verbally by my teammates for my suckage.  Does this hold true for HotS, too?  Or is it played by a more casual, relaxed, kinder bunch?

    Thanks for any info!
    HOTS I tried 5 games recently is a lot less toxic than Smite, even League OF Legends & HOTS / Overwatch are doing a lot better with toxicity over DOTA 2, and Smite right now.

    Today out of 5 games played in HOTS I can't say I had one person swearing at me if I tried this is smite I would have people yelling at me over a god choice, or some reason within at least one of my games.
  • eddieg50eddieg50 Member UncommonPosts: 1,809
    my advice is to pick one or two players and play them for awhile, with practice comes improvement, usually the toxicity comes after the game is over idiots will type "you guys suck"  which makes them look stupid and pathetic so just ignore  
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