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May 2, 2017 Stream: Pantheon

NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713
If you missed it, here



Lots of cool stuff, what did you think?
Post edited by Nanfoodle on
Catibrie
«1

Comments

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    I liked it.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited May 2017
    Good stuff!

    Little disappointed by Brad's answer on the death exp penalty. I think you should be able to lose your level. With an exp debt system (such as was in Vanguard), when you reach max level the exp loss no longer matters. You can die a thousand times in a row and max out your exp debt at 200% exp debt (or whatever the max happens to be) then you don't have to worry about getting rezed to recoup your exp loss again. 

    Sure, in a year or so, when they raise the exp cap, you have to make up the exp debt. But you'll know way in advance when the next expansion is coming out, and can just grind out the extra level in preparation for the level cap being raised.

     I know it's not set in stone. If they don't have de-leveling, I hope they come up with something else (better than Vanguard's system) to keep the sting of exp loss at max level relevant.
    --------------------------------------------
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,125
    Pull one mob, tank and hit it, pull one mob, tank and hit it, fail feign death and manage to grab two, cc one and hit the other. A caster, corner pull it.  Fleeing mob, pull it further back. I really hope that it gets more interesting at high level because so far everything looks archaic.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464




    Shaigh said:


    Pull one mob, tank and hit it, pull one mob, tank and hit it, fail feign death and manage to grab two, cc one and hit the other. A caster, corner pull it.  Fleeing mob, pull it further back. I really hope that it gets more interesting at high level because so far everything looks archaic.




    They did say at the beginning of the stream there would be a number other npc mob behaviors to watch out for that will be implemented in the future. Such as enemies charming you to even ambiant npc's that say fire arrows at you from a balcony.


    I loved it in EQ1 when the mobs would blind you and your entire monitor screen would go black for like 45 seconds.
    --------------------------------------------
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112

    Shaigh said:

    Pull one mob, tank and hit it, pull one mob, tank and hit it, fail feign death and manage to grab two, cc one and hit the other. A caster, corner pull it.  Fleeing mob, pull it further back. I really hope that it gets more interesting at high level because so far everything looks archaic.


    I'm fairly certain they are designing the game for older people who may not want to or are unable to move and press ability hotkeys at the same time. I'm not even trying to be sardonic. Though, the only recent MMO I can recall with less interesting or engaging combat was Pathfinder Online. At least in Pantheon it looks like mobs might be able to path on script routes.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713

    genaknosc said:



    Shaigh said:


    Pull one mob, tank and hit it, pull one mob, tank and hit it, fail feign death and manage to grab two, cc one and hit the other. A caster, corner pull it.  Fleeing mob, pull it further back. I really hope that it gets more interesting at high level because so far everything looks archaic.



    I'm fairly certain they are designing the game for older people who may not want to or are unable to move and press ability hotkeys at the same time. I'm not even trying to be sardonic. Though, the only recent MMO I can recall with less interesting or engaging combat was Pathfinder Online. At least in Pantheon it looks like mobs might be able to path on script routes.


     Also how a team deals with pulling will change with who you have in the team. Monk FD pulling will be just one tactic but it will always be about controlling the NPCs over the Twitch yawn fest of pulling 4 to 5 mobs and anyone can tank and AE them down. 
    Catibrie
  • genaknoscgenaknosc Member UncommonPosts: 112

    Nanfoodle said:

     Also how a team deals with pulling will change with who you have in the team. Monk FD pulling will be just one tactic but it will always be about controlling the NPCs over the Twitch yawn fest of pulling 4 to 5 mobs and anyone can tank and AE them down. 

    IMO, all PvE based gameplay is a yawn fest. Like seriously, it's all pattern based and repetitive, but then the success of Farmville would indicate that there is a sizeable audience in the market for players that gravitate to that kind of experience.
  • JoppaJoppa Member UncommonPosts: 24
    edited May 2017




    Good stuff!

    Little disappointed by Brad's answer on the death exp penalty. I think you should be able to lose your level. With an exp debt system (such as was in Vanguard), when you reach max level the exp loss no longer matters. You can die a thousand times in a row and max out your exp debt at 200% exp debt (or whatever the max happens to be) then you don't have to worry about getting rezed to recoup your exp loss again. 

    Sure, in a year or so, when they raise the exp cap, you have to make up the exp debt. But you'll know way in advance when the next expansion is coming out, and can just grind out the extra level in preparation for the level cap being raised.

     I know it's not set in stone. If they don't have de-leveling, I hope they come up with something else (better than Vanguard's system) to keep the sting of exp loss at max level relevant.


    Hey Wellspring,

    Just want to reiterate that our Death system is still under heavy consideration. We may move towards de-leveling in the near future (I'm not opposed to it). We may end up with a hybrid, where a certain amount of EXP debt is accumulated before an actual de-level. Or we may stick with a pure EXP-debt system.

    You can bank on us trying all 3 of these approaches, if not more, during Alpha and Beta testing before we make a final decision.
    Catibrie

    Creative Director, Lead Game Designer | Visionary Realms, Inc.

    Visit the official website of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen at www.pantheonmmo.com!

  • LtldoggLtldogg Member UncommonPosts: 282
    Loved it.  Exactly what I want and miss from early EQ!
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713

    Joppa said:







    Good stuff!

    Little disappointed by Brad's answer on the death exp penalty. I think you should be able to lose your level. With an exp debt system (such as was in Vanguard), when you reach max level the exp loss no longer matters. You can die a thousand times in a row and max out your exp debt at 200% exp debt (or whatever the max happens to be) then you don't have to worry about getting rezed to recoup your exp loss again. 

    Sure, in a year or so, when they raise the exp cap, you have to make up the exp debt. But you'll know way in advance when the next expansion is coming out, and can just grind out the extra level in preparation for the level cap being raised.

     I know it's not set in stone. If they don't have de-leveling, I hope they come up with something else (better than Vanguard's system) to keep the sting of exp loss at max level relevant.



    Hey Wellspring,

    Just want to reiterate that our Death system is still under heavy consideration. We may move towards de-leveling in the near future (I'm not opposed to it). We may end up with a hybrid, where a certain amount of EXP debt is accumulated before an actual de-level. Or we may stick with a pure EXP-debt system.

    You can bank on us trying all 3 of these approaches, if not more, during Alpha and Beta testing before we make a final decision.


     I hope you keep it where it is. Overly heavy death penalty ends up ending groups to early. Also deleveling can also make someone useless to a team.
    Catibrie
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464

    Joppa said:







    Good stuff!

    Little disappointed by Brad's answer on the death exp penalty. I think you should be able to lose your level. With an exp debt system (such as was in Vanguard), when you reach max level the exp loss no longer matters. You can die a thousand times in a row and max out your exp debt at 200% exp debt (or whatever the max happens to be) then you don't have to worry about getting rezed to recoup your exp loss again. 

    Sure, in a year or so, when they raise the exp cap, you have to make up the exp debt. But you'll know way in advance when the next expansion is coming out, and can just grind out the extra level in preparation for the level cap being raised.

     I know it's not set in stone. If they don't have de-leveling, I hope they come up with something else (better than Vanguard's system) to keep the sting of exp loss at max level relevant.



    Hey Wellspring,

    Just want to reiterate that our Death system is still under heavy consideration. We may move towards de-leveling in the near future (I'm not opposed to it). We may end up with a hybrid, where a certain amount of EXP debt is accumulated before an actual de-level. Or we may stick with a pure EXP-debt system.

    You can bank on us trying all 3 of these approaches, if not more, during Alpha and Beta testing before we make a final decision.


    @Joppa, thank you for the response. That hybrid system sounds like it could be awesome. Sort of a compromise to prevent de-leveling from being overly punishing while leveling up, but at the same time, keeping the exp penalty meaningful at max level.

    Great to hear you guys are planning to test multiple approaches!
    --------------------------------------------
  • RallydRallyd Member UncommonPosts: 95
    What's with these Nexus's that I keep seeing in every stream.. they appear to be like WoW graveyards that are in every zone in convenient places.  I hope these are temporary, because i wouldn't like to see a system in place that allows you to spawn at the entrance of a dungeon, or in convenient places around the world.

    If you die you should go back to a major city or outpost, not nexus stones or "graveyards".
  • RallydRallyd Member UncommonPosts: 95




    Rallyd said:


    What's with these Nexus's that I keep seeing in every stream.. they appear to be like WoW graveyards that are in every zone in convenient places.  I hope these are temporary, because i wouldn't like to see a system in place that allows you to spawn at the entrance of a dungeon, or in convenient places around the world.

    If you die you should go back to a major city or outpost, not nexus stones or "graveyards".




    They said it was only for the stream and that you would go back where you are soul bound in the real game.


    So they designed the stone graphic, the name "Nexus" itself, and places them in places in the world, all on a whim just for the "stream"?   Somehow I just don't believe that.  Not to mention the functionality for it all?
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited May 2017
    Rallyd said:
    So they designed the stone graphic, the name "Nexus" itself, and places them in places in the world, all on a whim just for the "stream"?   Somehow I just don't believe that.  Not to mention the functionality for it all?



    Just to reiterate what @drivendawn said, they're only being used to ease in testing the game during development. They talked about it briefly in today's stream at one point.

    Don't worry. At launch, when your character dies you will return to your soulbind, wherever that may be in the world. Not to a graveyard in each different zone.
    --------------------------------------------
  • RallydRallyd Member UncommonPosts: 95


    Rallyd said:
    So they designed the stone graphic, the name "Nexus" itself, and places them in places in the world, all on a whim just for the "stream"?   Somehow I just don't believe that.  Not to mention the functionality for it all?




    Just to reiterate what @drivendawn said, they're only being used to ease in testing the game during development. They talked about it briefly in today's stream at one point.

    Don't worry. At launch, when your character dies you will return to your soulbind, wherever that may be in the world. Not to a graveyard in each different zone.


    I'll bookmark this to link to you down the road when this changes.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited May 2017
    Rallyd said:
    I'll bookmark this to link to you down the road when this changes.


    Haha okay, you got a deal!
    --------------------------------------------
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 286

    Torval said:



    Joppa said:










    Good stuff!

    Little disappointed by Brad's answer on the death exp penalty. I think you should be able to lose your level. With an exp debt system (such as was in Vanguard), when you reach max level the exp loss no longer matters. You can die a thousand times in a row and max out your exp debt at 200% exp debt (or whatever the max happens to be) then you don't have to worry about getting rezed to recoup your exp loss again. 

    Sure, in a year or so, when they raise the exp cap, you have to make up the exp debt. But you'll know way in advance when the next expansion is coming out, and can just grind out the extra level in preparation for the level cap being raised.

     I know it's not set in stone. If they don't have de-leveling, I hope they come up with something else (better than Vanguard's system) to keep the sting of exp loss at max level relevant.




    Hey Wellspring,

    Just want to reiterate that our Death system is still under heavy consideration. We may move towards de-leveling in the near future (I'm not opposed to it). We may end up with a hybrid, where a certain amount of EXP debt is accumulated before an actual de-level. Or we may stick with a pure EXP-debt system.

    You can bank on us trying all 3 of these approaches, if not more, during Alpha and Beta testing before we make a final decision.




    That's good to hear. I'm not super big on deleveling. I did that in Lineage and it was a big demotivator when it happened at the horrible marathon levels. But I do agree with Wellspring that a high level character shouldn't be able to game the system with no consequence. At least that's my main concern with that type of system.


    Well that the way it was in early EQ because they didn't cap experience at first and once you got to 50 it just keep on accumulating. On raids and such, we seldom worried about getting an exp res. Of course you still had to get your corpse. This changed of course with the first expansion.
     I think exp loss until you get near a level point and then accumulated debt. If you are stupid enough to keep on dying at this point, I think you should only be able to accumulate only so much debt and then you do lose a level. 
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713

    Well Visionary Realms definitely hit us with the one-two punch (Monk pun optional), showing off a total of about 3 hours of great gameplay over two streams this week. To read my recap of the first part of this stream, click here. Last time, we saw the team fight through South Saol to the base of the Tower of the Reckless Magician. Today, we saw that same group fight through the Tower itself. But before really getting started on the adventure, the devs took some time to set the stage and clear up some concerns that had been raised by viewers after the last stream. It is important to remember that the purpose of these streams has been to show that there are solid system foundations in place. Pantheon is of course still in development, so what is shown is by no means finalized. There are already many improvements planned. The game will absolutely see changes in the future as needed, but these changes need to be implemented in layers and those layers take time. And they all firstly require a solid foundation, which is what we see now. Lead Game Designer Chris "Joppa" Perkins offered some clarifications on the following concerns:

    1. Buff/Item Scaling:

    - Stats on items and effects of buffs will not automatically/artificially be decreased to a set amount that suits the receiver's level.

    - A character's weapon skill will govern how effective that character is with a weapon. (Ex.: if a lvl 1 equips a lvl 40 sword, that players 1H Slashing skill is going to limit how much damage he/she can do with that weapon.)

    - Furthermore, for example, if a level 40 Shaman casts a Strength buff on that same character, the lvl 1 may be able to take advantage of the full damage range of the weapon. However, that character will still be not be doing much damage overall compared to if that sword was being wielded by a lvl 40 character, due to the difference in 1H Slashing skill.

    - There may be required levels on items that have procs or clickies.

    - Worn effects on items (Ex.: passive haste boost) will probably not be restricted by level.

    2. Combat:

    - NPCs will have special abilities and the tactics to use them strategically. (Ex.: healing, ranged, taking cover, cleave, knockback, knockdown, charms)

    - New dynamic encounters will be introduced, such as Ambient mobs. (Ex.: on a balcony, there could be a battalion of archers that periodically launch a volley of arrows after a loud shout. Players will need to find ways to either dispatch the archers, or take cover when they fire their waves of arrows.)

    - Expect to see more details soon regarding new NPC Dispositions, such as Pyrophobic, Predator, and Sniper.

    - Animations will continue to be improved.

    3. Death penalty:

    - Death penalty is currently reduced simply to expedite testing.

    - The ultimate plan is to have players respawn at their bind point.

    - Other details will be tested with the community during Pre-Alpha, Alpha, etc.

    Catibrie
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713

    4. Climate/Acclimation:

    - The exact role infusions play in Acclimation is still under consideration.

    - Several different factors will affect your Acclimation score.

    - Some aspects of being acclimated may require a certain amount of upkeep.

    This stream seemed to be primarily focused on showing some more in-depth combat strategies and mechanics. The team did a lot of fighting, and intentionally spent additional time focusing on playing their group roles correctly, rather than answering viewer questions in order to give a more accurate representation of what it would be like to group in a dungeon on an average day of playing Pantheon. However, we still learned a lot. As previously mentioned, keep in mind this is an early iteration of the game, so almost anything is subject to change, but of course it's still very good to know what the current state of the game is or what their current plans are. Here are what I would consider the highlights... important information that is new or now more detailed:

    NPC Dispositions/Behavior:

    - There is always a chance that a mob can spawn with a certain Disposition.

    - Mobs may change their pathing patterns or migrate short distances.

    - Mobs can know when to specifically target players that are below a certain health percentage.

    - NPC casters can target a random arcane or healer player to cast an interrupt on them. Or they could randomly target a melee player to cast a root on them.

    - If an NPC caster has started to cast a spell, they will complete that cast. But once they have completed their cast, they will move to get you in their line of sight.

    - Incapacitating (Ex.: stun, root, etc.) an Alarmist for 8 seconds will cause them to no longer try to find help.

    Abilities:

    - The Shaman-specific mana regen buff is called "Walk of the Ages."

    - There will be some in-combat resurrection abilities.

    Combat:

    - Mobs cannot use passive defensive skills (Ex.: block, parry, riposte) on attacks coming from the area 180 degrees behind them.

    - Gear, level, and innate passive bonuses are the three factors that positively affect Resistances.

    - Debuff spells, Atmospheres, and Climates are examples of things that can negatively affect Resistances.

    - Mobs cannot be aggro'd through walls, regardless of proximity, even if the wall is glass.

    Perception:

    - Becoming a Keeper will require you to start off as an apprentice of an old, wise mentor.

    - These mentors will probably be located in racial starting cities.

    - You will then acquire basic Perception skills (Insight & Investiage) and be given loose tutorial-like tasks to use those skills in and around the area of that mentor.

    - Progressing to higher levels of Perception may require you to travel far and visit specific places and/or talk to specific NPCs and potentially meet new mentors.

    - As a Keeper, being able to detect NPC Dispositions would require a specialization in Insight.

    Catibrie
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713

    Trading:

    - There will most likely be local auction houses. (subject to change)

    - You may be able to set up your own player merchants in the future. (post-launch; subject to change)

    User Interface:

    - While the current plan is to only have an in-game world atlas, it will probably be possible for players to make their own personal notes and markings on it. (subject to change)

    - Players will be able to "mark" their targets to make it easier for their group members to see which mob they are referring to.

    - You will be able to compare an item with your currently equipped item by hovering over it.

    - The default UI allows you to drag individual windows.

    - Max camera distance will not be reduced by third-person view.

    Miscellaneous:

    - Pets will be able to equip items, as long as it makes sense. (Ex.: wolves cannot wield swords)

    - You will probably not be able to lose levels due to XP loss from dying. (subject to change)

    - Falling velocity may be in the game eventually. (Ex.: the longer you fall, the faster you fall. The sound of rushing wind may get louder as you pick up speed) (subject to change)

    - Choice of deity may affect your faction and/or alignment.

    For more information, click on the timestamps below:

    00:06:48 - Introductions
    00:08:59 - VIP Program
    00:09:31 - Safe Fall & looking out over South Saol
    00:11:34 - Buff & item scaling (clarification)
    00:18:19 - Combat dynamics (clarification)
    00:20:51 - Death penalty (clarification)
    00:21:16 - Acclimation (clarification)
    00:25:20 - Rare loot from common spawns
    00:28:16 - Vendors & dumpster diving
    00:30:24 - Buffs & GM powers
    00:32:37 - Close-up of the new wolf pet model
    00:35:00 - /loc
    00:35:45 - Resurrection abilities
    00:37:02 - Corpse summons
    00:37:40 - Elevator
    00:39:05 - Tower of the Reckless Magician lore
    00:43:17 - Guild mechanics/tools
    00:45:13 - Camps
    00:47:49 - NPC caster abilities
    00:50:48 - Loot tables
    00:51:22 - Line of sight
    00:51:49 - Detecting dispositions
    00:53:33 - Difference between Wizard & Enchanter
    00:55:01 - Perception specializations
    00:56:00 - Maps
    00:58:28 - Countering mob behavior
    01:00:42 - Pet equipment
    01:02:52 - Marking targets
    01:03:50 - Resistances
    01:06:39 - Item comparisons
    01:08:47 - Wipes & corpse recovery
    01:13:29 - Combat positioning
    01:17:58 - Max camera distance in third-person view
    01:19:22 - Falling velocity
    01:26:00 - Effects of deity choice
    01:26:59 - Resurrection abilities (cont'd)
    01:27:42 - Auction House
    01:29:18 - How to become a Keeper
    01:31:31 - Player collision
    01:33:18 - De-leveling from dying
    01:34:18 - Investment/job opportunities & pledging
    01:34:56 - Conclusion

    Catibrie
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Was really glad to get clarification on the nexus stones and that the plan is to respawn at bind. Also important to know that their philosophy on items was not to scale them down, but allow them to naturally scale based on levels/skill levels etc. Much needed encouragement that they weren't losing site of what we want.
    Catibrie


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,713
    Was most excited my question was answered in the stream. There will be regional auction houses. Was not looking forward to yelling in EC for hours to sell stuff. 
    Catibrie
  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726
    Played games where you can delevel if you die.  That can really break up your party when that occurs, but then again respawning at bind could do that too .  Personally loved the way AC handled death.  Some of those old games had much better mechanisms to handle such.

    I know you just hired some animators, they have their work cut out for them, as the animations are just primitive at best right now.  Not a real deal breaker for me, but I see people very concerned with them a lot.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited May 2017
    Ozmodan said:


    Played games where you can delevel if you die.  That can really break up your party when that occurs, but then again respawning at bind could do that too .  Personally loved the way AC handled death.  Some of those old games had much better mechanisms to handle such.

    I know you just hired some animators, they have their work cut out for them, as the animations are just primitive at best right now.  Not a real deal breaker for me, but I see people very concerned with them a lot.






    Not a deal breaker for me either. I don't get why people are so concerned with the animations at this stage. It's still way before alpha, which is way before beta and ultimately launch. I'd hate for a few criticism about the animations cause them to hesitate showing the game off going forward and wait until everything is in a pristine shape.

    Until they announce, "this is the final animations we're going with for launch", I think it'd be helpful to remember to look at it as a work in progress...

    Game development is a slow process, and it's great that VR is gracious enough to let us follow along and watch as it happens.
    Post edited by Wellspring on
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  • Gyva02Gyva02 Member RarePosts: 499
    edited May 2017


    Ozmodan said:


    Played games where you can delevel if you die.  That can really break up your party when that occurs, but then again respawning at bind could do that too .  Personally loved the way AC handled death.  Some of those old games had much better mechanisms to handle such.

    I know you just hired some animators, they have their work cut out for them, as the animations are just primitive at best right now.  Not a real deal breaker for me, but I see people very concerned with them a lot.




    I really really hope their animators can bring back those eq1 spell visuals. You know the ones where there were 1000's of particles oozing and flying from your hands. Really loved how they would leave tracers as you ran and they were still casting. Lets see if we can find a video of that. 

    Get's good around 2:40 as its set against a darker background. You can also see the tracers I was talking about too when he runs around casting at the very end. 










    Catibrie
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