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Can this game survive without catch-up mechanics?

Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,784
So I bought the last expansion after a hiatus from the game because it looked good and sounded like some of the things I didn't like were fixed, like the claustrophobic zones. My highest toon was 40ish at the time and I had no idea when I hit 50 I was going to have to do 100 (literally) horrible fetch/kill/run there and back again quests before I could even think about getting into the expansion. I burned out on this boring content and threw in the towel.

So now another new expansion, I figured well maybe they will unlock this gate to at least the last expansion if you buy it.....nope. 

Every other AAA MMO that has been out a while I can think of has some type of catch-up mechanic so you can enjoy the latest release of content, which is almost always improved upon from the original game and has the largest population of players doing group content. What this means is people like me who just did not like some things but wants to try out the new stuff is forced to dredge through the old content (typically solo) before you can witness any of the new stuff. Then by the time I catch-up another expansion is coming out or the population died down again. In other words, quit once and we don't expect you back.

I know the response I will get from some, it is very predictable......"I worked for it blah blah blah. Well I play games to be entertained, not to "work". Don't make it about your personal BS and think about the future of the game. I am a willing purchaser of the expansion and sub if I could just get through this obsolete mechanic of gating content. If people are willing to pay in order to get to the newer content where the majority of the population is....why not? 


Make MMORPG's Great Again!

Comments

  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,784
    edited May 2017


    Nyctelios said:


    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.



    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 

    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,733

    Viper482 said:




    Nyctelios said:



    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.




    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 



    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 

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  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,784
    edited May 2017


    Nyctelios said:





    Viper482 said:








    Nyctelios said:





    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.






    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 







    Its a theme park mmorpg. I fail to see your rage against this single game. The things you are complaining about are actually this game feature: Heavy story based theme park on rails experience.

    I would suggest you play something else. *shrugs*


    First of all....rage? ROFL. Whatever.

    Heavy story?? I started doing these quests, they were not "story" quests, they were crap side quests that were basically just a gate to you getting to the expansion.

    Since you obviously did not read anything I wrote. Why do I care? I liked the game for the most part, and I heard Heavenward fixed what I did not like. But instead of getting to experience that, I have to run a gauntlet of 100 no value added quests.

    [mod edit]

    Post edited by Vaross on
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,784


    In a little more than a month you will be able to buy jumping potions so wait until then would be my suggestion. 


    This pretty much /thread's this thing right here. This is the catch-up mechanic I was hoping for. Thank you sir for providing some value to this conversation.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,156
    The game likely will survive but personally I hate it since housing is very hard to obtain (EXACLTY) what you want, other newer modern games are not hard like this, and on top of too much content I hear they will be offering level jumping to those who want to do it sometime later down the road over-all I like Final Fantasy single player series even Final Fantasy XI was great but the new online version I just can't stand.
  • IceAgeIceAge Member EpicPosts: 2,892

    Kyleran said:



    Viper482 said:






    Nyctelios said:




    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.





    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 





    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 


    They were never been :)

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • Viper482Viper482 Member LegendaryPosts: 3,784
    /thread. There is a catch-up mechanic coming. I will be subbing again when this comes out even though people are trying to convince me not to because either I like everything about the game or nothing at all. Absurd.


    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    edited May 2017
    Remember when you were able to work towards end game while leveling up? Sounds stupid I know....because backloading everything is definitely a better idea...Pretty much the only game I can think of that does this currently off the top of my head is Archeage, but it is a p2w mess so I guess it doesn't count. Maybe BDO? Haven't played past the trial to care.
  • peanutabcpeanutabc Member UncommonPosts: 141
    edited May 2017


    Viper482 said:


    So I bought the last expansion after a hiatus from the game because it looked good and sounded like some of the things I didn't like were fixed, like the claustrophobic zones. My highest toon was 40ish at the time and I had no idea when I hit 50 I was going to have to do 100 (literally) horrible fetch/kill/run there and back again quests before I could even think about getting into the expansion. I burned out on this boring content and threw in the towel.

    So now another new expansion, I figured well maybe they will unlock this gate to at least the last expansion if you buy it.....nope. 

    Every other AAA MMO that has been out a while I can think of has some type of catch-up mechanic so you can enjoy the latest release of content, which is almost always improved upon from the original game and has the largest population of players doing group content. What this means is people like me who just did not like some things but wants to try out the new stuff is forced to dredge through the old content (typically solo) before you can witness any of the new stuff. Then by the time I catch-up another expansion is coming out or the population died down again. In other words, quit once and we don't expect you back.

    I know the response I will get from some, it is very predictable......"I worked for it blah blah blah. Well I play games to be entertained, not to "work". Don't make it about your personal BS and think about the future of the game. I am a willing purchaser of the expansion and sub if I could just get through this obsolete mechanic of gating content. If people are willing to pay in order to get to the newer content where the majority of the population is....why not? 






    I like FFXIV but..

    I'll never suggest the game to a friend. Reason? Playing through outdated content is not fun, especially 1-50. Any MMORPG "veteran" will likely be bored of 1-50 because it's amazingly slow and treats you like you've never played a game before and drags on.

    One friend played HW at launch and I feel like it's not fair to suggest them to even play the game again because they're going to have to slog through stuff they won't care about to get to the "fresh start" of Stormblood.

    Even catching up if you skip a big patch is awkward as you're going to be still capped with weekly tomes, weekly lockouts. Even if you get somewhat caught up you're still behind.

    It's unreasonable to ask a friend or returning player to come back when you feel bad about it cause you know what they're playing is just obsolete content and unless you're interested in the story is just tedious to grind through. Big streamers like Lirik say they want to give Stormblood a try as they have an MMO itch but they'll likely pass on the game because of the boring grind to catchup.

    Jumping potion. If none come with a purchase of Stormblood and you need to pay additional then that'll be hilarious too. 
  • kallenskallens Member UncommonPosts: 39
    Yes, It can and does survive, it's a grind, but doable. My friend and I rolled new healers on Sarg, and I am level 57, took me about two weeks (but I did level gatherers to 50) is the path to 2.55 fun, not really, was I getting annoyed by Tataru and saving her behind every few levels and wanting to shake Alphinaud, of course, but it's not game breaking. Also I've read jump pots aren't coming until the end of this year, and that there will be two versions, one for story and one for classes, and that they will cost upwards of 20 dollars, so, I think most people will spend a week or two just doing ARR, get it over with, you only need to do it once, as Shia says, "just do ittt"
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member RarePosts: 543
    edited May 2017
    Kyleran said:


    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 
    I'm thinking that was sarcasm? Only on my first cup of coffee for the day, so my Sarcasm Detector might not be fully functional just yet.

    If you weren't being sarcastic...

    I'd argue MMORPGs are for casuals now more than ever. FFXIV, in particular, is extremely casual friendly, and moving further in that direction with almost every major update Yoshida puts in place. For crying out loud, we're in a time where people are suggesting level/story jumping potions to bypass content, instead of actually doing it.

    Back in the days when MMORPGs weren't casual-friendly, and more people actually bought them so they could *play* them, your only option for that was to pay some 3rd party entity to level your characters for you, or buy someone else's, and that was prohibited in the vast majority of cases, not to mention frowned upon by most players.

    By and large, people don't want the experience of leveling a character, or adventuring anymore. They just want the rewards.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,733
    Kyleran said:


    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 
    I'm thinking that was sarcasm? Only on my first cup of coffee for the day, so my Sarcasm Detector might not be fully functional just yet.

    If you weren't being sarcastic...

    I'd argue MMORPGs are for casuals now more than ever. FFXIV, in particular, is extremely casual friendly, and moving further in that direction with almost every major update Yoshida puts in place. For crying out loud, we're in a time where people are suggesting level/story jumping potions to bypass content, instead of actually doing it.

    Back in the days when MMORPGs weren't casual-friendly, and more people actually bought them so they could *play* them, your only option for that was to pay some 3rd party entity to level your characters for you, or buy someone else's, and that was prohibited in the vast majority of cases.
    Wry attempt at humor, fell flat I guess.

    More of a statement to the request for jump mechanics which it seems this game will provide later this year.

    Like you, I'm confused by the trend to jump to end game, especially by newer players who should want to actually enjoy the game along the way.

    I assume this is largely due to a desire to play with friends already at end game or the challenge of completing group content at the lower levels.


    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,746
    IceAge said:

    Kyleran said:



    Viper482 said:






    Nyctelios said:




    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.





    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 





    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 


    They were never been :)
    You'll find that what most of the lurkers on this board think is casual game play would not fit the definition nor the consensus from actual casual gamers.

    image
  • nate1980nate1980 Member UncommonPosts: 1,977
    Viper482 said:


    Nyctelios said:


    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.



    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 

    FF14 is a story-based game. Those "100's" of "mundane" quests you're wanting to skip is the whole point of the game, what sets FF14 apart from other games. 
  • MoodsorMoodsor Member UncommonPosts: 712
    Jumping potions are not confirmed for Stormblood launch, they said sometime after Stormblood launches.

    image
  • SeffaerSeffaer Member UncommonPosts: 5
    I'll be unsubbed until they let me do a raid behind this gated content.

    ARR has the worst gating problem of any MMO. No I don't want your level 10 story quests for hours on end.
  • YaevinduskYaevindusk Member RarePosts: 2,094
    Moodsor said:
    Jumping potions are not confirmed for Stormblood launch, they said sometime after Stormblood launches.

    Shortly after the time date of this post, the jump potions were confirmed.

    http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/464424/main-story-skip-options-confirmed-for-arr-heavensward/p1?new=1

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  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 6,675
    edited May 2017
    peanutabc said:


    Viper482 said:


    So I bought the last expansion after a hiatus from the game because it looked good and sounded like some of the things I didn't like were fixed, like the claustrophobic zones. My highest toon was 40ish at the time and I had no idea when I hit 50 I was going to have to do 100 (literally) horrible fetch/kill/run there and back again quests before I could even think about getting into the expansion. I burned out on this boring content and threw in the towel.

    So now another new expansion, I figured well maybe they will unlock this gate to at least the last expansion if you buy it.....nope. 

    Every other AAA MMO that has been out a while I can think of has some type of catch-up mechanic so you can enjoy the latest release of content, which is almost always improved upon from the original game and has the largest population of players doing group content. What this means is people like me who just did not like some things but wants to try out the new stuff is forced to dredge through the old content (typically solo) before you can witness any of the new stuff. Then by the time I catch-up another expansion is coming out or the population died down again. In other words, quit once and we don't expect you back.

    I know the response I will get from some, it is very predictable......"I worked for it blah blah blah. Well I play games to be entertained, not to "work". Don't make it about your personal BS and think about the future of the game. I am a willing purchaser of the expansion and sub if I could just get through this obsolete mechanic of gating content. If people are willing to pay in order to get to the newer content where the majority of the population is....why not? 






    I like FFXIV but..

    I'll never suggest the game to a friend. Reason? Playing through outdated content is not fun, especially 1-50. Any MMORPG "veteran" will likely be bored of 1-50 because it's amazingly slow and treats you like you've never played a game before and drags on.

    One friend played HW at launch and I feel like it's not fair to suggest them to even play the game again because they're going to have to slog through stuff they won't care about to get to the "fresh start" of Stormblood.

    Even catching up if you skip a big patch is awkward as you're going to be still capped with weekly tomes, weekly lockouts. Even if you get somewhat caught up you're still behind.

    It's unreasonable to ask a friend or returning player to come back when you feel bad about it cause you know what they're playing is just obsolete content and unless you're interested in the story is just tedious to grind through. Big streamers like Lirik say they want to give Stormblood a try as they have an MMO itch but they'll likely pass on the game because of the boring grind to catchup.

    Jumping potion. If none come with a purchase of Stormblood and you need to pay additional then that'll be hilarious too. 

    How so? How can the old content be outdated for a new player?  The gear rewards are still relevant for said player's level!

    In fact, the lvl50 class armor has been updated, so now you get two sets (one lvl45 set ilvl80 I believe and one lvl50 set at ilvl90). Also the post lvl50 content towards Heavensward had also their rewards updated with ilvl110 rewards.
    You also get a lot of tomes, when doing the trials along the way, allowing you to buy ilvl120 gear, which will help you get a good start through Heavensward.

    The only quest line that is no longer relevant, is the lvl50 relic weapon. But this has been updated with a new lvl60 questline and with Stormblood expac we can expect a new lvl70 relic weapon questline to be added.

    If you hate the lvl1-50 experience in FFXIV, you going to hate the post lvl50 experience as well, as it ain't going to be much better.  It's a story driven Themepark MMO. You either like it or not.

    And if you hate the story so much. Next month you can buy jump potions to auto complete the Main Scenario questlines and grind your way to the top doing side quests, dungeons, fates, whatever, like any other MMO.... if that is more your thing.
    Post edited by JeroKane on
    kallens
  • DarkswormDarksworm Member RarePosts: 1,066
    edited May 2017
    Kyleran said:

    Viper482 said:




    Nyctelios said:



    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.




    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 



    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 
    FFXIV isn't exactly a game that I would categorize as hardcore in any way.  It's very casual, and it's player base is quite a bit more casual than many others.  The issue isn't the OP being "casual", it's having to do forced content that most of the players in the game have no will, want, or drive to do.  The comparison with WoW is good.  EverQuest also had to introduce new starting zones and speed up the leveling at the lower end.  EverQuest II introduced mentoring to allow high level players to help low level players run the content they needed.  Even Lineage II has changed so that 1-85 takes half a day, because players will get bored and quit the game if it's a predominantly 1-player experience.  What you seem to imply is that all of those cames are "casual' games and that these systems and changes they've implemented have nothing to do with "new player alienation" which is epidemic in MMORPGs once a game has been out for a couple of years...  Give me a break.

    First impressions matter.  No one pays a subscription to Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher III, so I'm baffled how people can think it's fine that people will pay a subscription to spend a month or more playing with themselves and begging a few people to do old content...  Especially when they're probably paying $1-200 just to play the game on all the machines they own (i.e. a Mac, a Windows Laptop, and a PS4 (and PS3, for that matter) all require separate client and expansion purchases for this game).

    I think you people need to drop the clichés and at least attempt to have some sort of intelligent dialog on matters.  This is getting boring to see.  Really f*****g boring.
    Viper482
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 40,733
    Darksworm said:
    Kyleran said:

    Viper482 said:




    Nyctelios said:



    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.




    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 



    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 
    FFXIV isn't exactly a game that I would categorize as hardcore in any way.  It's very casual, and it's player base is quite a bit more casual than many others.  The issue isn't the OP being "casual", it's having to do forced content that most of the players in the game have no will, want, or drive to do.  The comparison with WoW is good.  EverQuest also had to introduce new starting zones and speed up the leveling at the lower end.  EverQuest II introduced mentoring to allow high level players to help low level players run the content they needed.  Even Lineage II has changed so that 1-85 takes half a day, because players will get bored and quit the game if it's a predominantly 1-player experience.  What you seem to imply is that all of those cames are "casual' games and that these systems and changes they've implemented have nothing to do with "new player alienation" which is epidemic in MMORPGs once a game has been out for a couple of years...  Give me a break.

    First impressions matter.  No one pays a subscription to Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher III, so I'm baffled how people can think it's fine that people will pay a subscription to spend a month or more playing with themselves and begging a few people to do old content...  Especially when they're probably paying $1-200 just to play the game on all the machines they own (i.e. a Mac, a Windows Laptop, and a PS4 (and PS3, for that matter) all require separate client and expansion purchases for this game).

    I think you people need to drop the clichés and at least attempt to have some sort of intelligent dialog on matters.  This is getting boring to see.  Really f*****g boring.
    Stop playing bad games then....

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

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  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 6,675
    edited May 2017
    Darksworm said:
    Kyleran said:

    Viper482 said:




    Nyctelios said:



    They have catch up mechanics in fact.

    After certain time new tier of armors are sold by resources you get doing standard content and for a way lower price than the "launch window" for said patch.




    But nothing to keep me from having to do 100 of the worst type of questing in MMOs and trying to find people to do forced old group content? For example, WoW Legion.....that is where 90% of the population is playing when Legion releases. That is where it is at. Blizzard recognizes many don't want to play through the early content just to get where the new and exciting stuff is, so they include a boosted toon you can start in the new expansion pack with.

    I am not even asking for that, I am only asking for not locking me behind quest-gates. If I can get to the level required for the new content, just let me freaking join in. Sorry if you wasted hours of your life doing 100 mundane quests at the original endgame just to get to the next expansion, I'm not doing that for crappy old content. And I know this is keeping many others away from coming back as well. If they just don't want our money, so be it. 



    MMORPGS, they are not for casuals anymore. 
    FFXIV isn't exactly a game that I would categorize as hardcore in any way.  It's very casual, and it's player base is quite a bit more casual than many others.  The issue isn't the OP being "casual", it's having to do forced content that most of the players in the game have no will, want, or drive to do.  The comparison with WoW is good.  EverQuest also had to introduce new starting zones and speed up the leveling at the lower end.  EverQuest II introduced mentoring to allow high level players to help low level players run the content they needed.  Even Lineage II has changed so that 1-85 takes half a day, because players will get bored and quit the game if it's a predominantly 1-player experience.  What you seem to imply is that all of those cames are "casual' games and that these systems and changes they've implemented have nothing to do with "new player alienation" which is epidemic in MMORPGs once a game has been out for a couple of years...  Give me a break.

    First impressions matter.  No one pays a subscription to Dragon Age Inquisition or Witcher III, so I'm baffled how people can think it's fine that people will pay a subscription to spend a month or more playing with themselves and begging a few people to do old content...  Especially when they're probably paying $1-200 just to play the game on all the machines they own (i.e. a Mac, a Windows Laptop, and a PS4 (and PS3, for that matter) all require separate client and expansion purchases for this game).

    I think you people need to drop the clichés and at least attempt to have some sort of intelligent dialog on matters.  This is getting boring to see.  Really f*****g boring.

    Ehh.... have you played the game since like the last 2 years or so? That's why SE introduced Duty Finder roulettes a long time ago.
    I rerolled a new char about 6-7 months ago and play very casually and just lvl50 doing the post-50 content. I had absolutely no problem with any of the dungeons and got pretty much instant queues. Longest I had to wait was 5-10 minutes on a weekday.

    There are always players leveling up new (ALT) jobs and running the Duty roulette system every day and new players doing the dungeon for the first time for the MSQ get priority in the queue.
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