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CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003

    Tiamat64 said:



    Ordanska said:


    I spent 5 mins asking a question he has spent a year....

    So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...




    It's a lot more than five minutes by now, I imagine.


    Funny how that happens.  :p
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,481




    Tiamat64 said:





    Ordanska said:



    I spent 5 mins asking a question he has spent a year....

    So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...






    It's a lot more than five minutes by now, I imagine.




    Funny how that happens.  :p


    I do attract groupies...  but seriously let's get refocused from the Slapshot fan club to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,461









    Tiamat64 said:







    Ordanska said:




    I spent 5 mins asking a question he has spent a year....

    So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...








    It's a lot more than five minutes by now, I imagine.






    Funny how that happens.  :p




    I do attract groupies...  but seriously let's get refocused from the Slapshot fan club to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)


    I don't want RMT in the games I play. I know it's impossible for the game companies to stop it and that's ok (it's reality) but if a game company officially condones it, it's not the game for me.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited May 2017



     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)




    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 

    Any single option there is a time consuming as well as costly task. SO what is a better use of resource? WHat is more important to the overall game? Since all of these things are going to be an ongoing fight something has to be prioritized. That's not even accounting for live everyday hotfixes, helping players who are stuck, dealing with lost inventory and other database issues if they pop up. 

    I think it's important to look past the hate of RMT to see this picture clearly.












    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,481

    Distopia said:





     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)






    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 

    Any single option there is a time consuming as well as costly task. SO what is a better use of resource? WHat is more important to the overall game? Since all of these things are going to be an ongoing fight something has to be prioritized. That's not even accounting for live everyday hotfixes, helping players who are stuck, dealing with lost inventory and other database issues if they pop up. 

    I think it's important to look past the hate of RMT to see this picture clearly.














    I think it depends on the game.  In a full open world PvP game based around territory contro that lists finite resources as a feature, allowing or endorsing rat for those same precious resources is game breaking.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,349




    Distopia said:







     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)








    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 

    Any single option there is a time consuming as well as costly task. SO what is a better use of resource? WHat is more important to the overall game? Since all of these things are going to be an ongoing fight something has to be prioritized. That's not even accounting for live everyday hotfixes, helping players who are stuck, dealing with lost inventory and other database issues if they pop up. 

    I think it's important to look past the hate of RMT to see this picture clearly.
















    I think it depends on the game.  In a full open world PvP game based around territory contro that lists finite resources as a feature, allowing or endorsing rat for those same precious resources is game breaking.  


    EVE seems to do just fine with that. How is it different?
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    If it becomes an issue the devs can always allow kill on sight with no penalties for killing them
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,481

    Torval said:








    Distopia said:









     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)










    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 

    Any single option there is a time consuming as well as costly task. SO what is a better use of resource? WHat is more important to the overall game? Since all of these things are going to be an ongoing fight something has to be prioritized. That's not even accounting for live everyday hotfixes, helping players who are stuck, dealing with lost inventory and other database issues if they pop up. 

    I think it's important to look past the hate of RMT to see this picture clearly.


















    I think it depends on the game.  In a full open world PvP game based around territory contro that lists finite resources as a feature, allowing or endorsing rat for those same precious resources is game breaking.  




    EVE seems to do just fine with that. How is it different?


    I don't play EvE and I don't see the difference.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183




    Distopia said:







     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)








    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 

    Any single option there is a time consuming as well as costly task. SO what is a better use of resource? WHat is more important to the overall game? Since all of these things are going to be an ongoing fight something has to be prioritized. That's not even accounting for live everyday hotfixes, helping players who are stuck, dealing with lost inventory and other database issues if they pop up. 

    I think it's important to look past the hate of RMT to see this picture clearly.
















    I think it depends on the game.  In a full open world PvP game based around territory contro that lists finite resources as a feature, allowing or endorsing rat for those same precious resources is game breaking.  


    I think the problem there is most of those on top would be there either way. Because it's always going to be the largest most ruthless guilds. It's quite funny actually because there are frequent stories of the lone whale being steamrolled by the larger more ruthless guild. 

    Bad players and lone players are always going to be toppled. As are the small guilds. 

    IN such games you kinda have to accept your station, stepping out of it doesn't usually have the best outcome regardless of how much you spend. WIth those big guilds you assimilate or die. 




    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited May 2017


    Distopia said:







     but seriously let's get refocused to the rmt conversation (if there is more to discuss)








    Fixed, such statements will just lead to getting more personal since it's essentially baiting it. 

    There's a lot to discuss about the realities of RMT, especially when it comes to how a small timer uses funds in regard to it, the problem is no one wants to discuss that really. It's just dismissed more or less.

    Does a dev team with limited resources benefit more from tracking exploits, other cheats, squashing technical issues etc. Or by policing their players every move in and out of game? 






    If the dev team's resources are so limited that they can't provide a clean environment in a game that's about competition and fighting over limited resources in a perpetual world, they shouldn't be making such a game in the first place.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited May 2017


    Tiamat64 said:












    If the dev team's resources are so limited that they can't provide a clean environment in a game that's about competition and fighting over limited resources in a perpetual world, they shouldn't be making such a game in the first place.




    That's up to the consumer to decide in the end. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332

    Tiamat64 said:

    If the dev team's resources are so limited that they can't provide a clean environment in a game that's about competition and fighting over limited resources in a perpetual world, they shouldn't be making such a game in the first place.


    There is no such thing as "clean environment" nor there needs to be one - EVE being a proof.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545

    Distopia said:




    Tiamat64 said:


    If the dev team's resources are so limited that they can't provide a clean environment in a game that's about competition and fighting over limited resources in a perpetual world, they shouldn't be making such a game in the first place.





    That's up to the consumer to decide in the end. 


    Well, most people suspect they won't even be able to complete the game in the first place (at least, not with anywhere near the amount of features that they're promising for it at this time), in which case the consumer probably won't get any choice in the matter at all, although my statement fits that viewpoint too, anyways (if in an even more literal fashion).
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797

    Ordanska said:

    If it becomes an issue the devs can always allow kill on sight with no penalties for killing them


    And there is a code to magically identify RMT to allow a penalty free kill?
    If that's the case then why did he say they don't have the resources to hunt them down?
    Harbinger of Fools
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    *ducks* dodged this bullet.
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    No but a screenshot of them advertising and you can kill them.
    It wont get rid of the vote but every little helps.

    If the companies have to keep paying for souls whilst it won't stop them it might discourage them.
  • RateroRatero Member UncommonPosts: 440
    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,837

    Ratero said:

    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...


    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,681

    Sovrath said:



    Ratero said:


    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...




    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.


    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,837

    Iselin said:



    Sovrath said:





    Ratero said:



    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...






    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.




    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)


    That's true, some do that. I was thinking more along the lines of them creating "some other" company seemingly not affiliated and selling like a standard gold seller. But you are right, companies do that. I think Tera does that. And of course Black Desert.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,681

    Sovrath said:



    Iselin said:





    Sovrath said:







    Ratero said:




    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...








    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.






    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)




    That's true, some do that. I was thinking more along the lines of them creating "some other" company seemingly not affiliated and selling like a standard gold seller. But you are right, companies do that. I think Tera does that. And of course Black Desert.


    Yeah BDO's system is especially close to being just one step because the company also controls the AH prices very tightly. People that want to buy gold can figure out almost exactly how much gold their cash shop purchase will get them.
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,431

    Iselin said:



    Sovrath said:





    Ratero said:



    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...






    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.




    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)


    So in CoE's case, all they would have to do is allow Sparks of Life (their version of arcade tokens for the game) to be tradeable between players, and CoE is essentially in the gold selling business. 

    So yeah, not really far fetched at all. Have they said whether Sparks of Life will be tradeable or not?
    --------------------------------------------
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,349

    Iselin said:



    Sovrath said:





    Ratero said:



    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...






    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.




    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)


    EVE and Albion essentially do that and it seems to work. In EVE don't some people like to farm ISK and use it to buy PLEX and others like to buy PLEX and get ISK or play the market?

    I think the way they're addressing it sounds more controversial than it is in practice. I would almost rather they take the approach of EVE, Albion, and the like rather than let third party rmt reign.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,681

    Torval said:



    Iselin said:





    Sovrath said:







    Ratero said:




    CoE will most likely be the largest seller of in game gold.  It's much easier for them to "generate" the in game coin to sell verses a person having to do something to "earn" it.  Just saying...








    hmmmm, I think that's a little tinfoil hat don't you think? I mean, all it would take is one disgruntled employee to call them out and "oh what a scandal".

    Unless you are actually saying that they announced they would be one of the companies selling gold.






    There are all kinds of companies already doing it via the usual 2-step process: they sell you something for cash that you can then sell to others in the game for gold.

    Even if this company doesn't do that, it's not all that far-fetched to think that it might occur to them to just do it in one step and sell you gold directly. After they check with their lawyer, of course :)




    EVE and Albion essentially do that and it seems to work. In EVE don't some people like to farm ISK and use it to buy PLEX and others like to buy PLEX and get ISK or play the market?

    I think the way they're addressing it sounds more controversial than it is in practice. I would almost rather they take the approach of EVE, Albion, and the like rather than let third party rmt reign.


    Except, as I read what was posted, what CoE is talking about is something that, to my knowledge no game allows: selling in game items to other players for cash.

    Caspian - Today at 9:30 PM When it comes to selling in-game items in a real-world market we effectively have two choices. We can spend countless hours and resources on trying to stop and track people making money off their in-game items, or we can accept that their time has value to them. If people have a lot of time, but little money, want to use that as a way to create in-game items which they then sell to other players who have disposable income but less free-time, we view that as a win-win.

    This is quite different from trading currencies back and forth that have no real world value and only have value in the game.
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited May 2017


    Iselin said:





    Torval said:





    Except, as I read what was posted, what CoE is talking about is something that, to my knowledge no game allows: selling in game items to other players for cash.

    Caspian - Today at 9:30 PM When it comes to selling in-game items in a real-world market we effectively have two choices. We can spend countless hours and resources on trying to stop and track people making money off their in-game items, or we can accept that their time has value to them. If people have a lot of time, but little money, want to use that as a way to create in-game items which they then sell to other players who have disposable income but less free-time, we view that as a win-win.

    This is quite different from trading currencies back and forth that have no real world value and only have value in the game.




    It's essentially like what Diablo 3 did, allowing players to sell their loot for real currency, without taking from the top as you allow them to do it privately. 

    AT worst you get a Pay to win system, yet no items are being made specifically for that, you have what everyone else has. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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