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CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,134

    DMKano said:



    Iselin said:


    I've never been a fan of the "time = money" rationalization for RMT simply because it ignores the fundamentals of playing games without external shortcuts or cheats. Besides, RMT is not about equalizing enjoyment - that's just a bullshit argument. RMT is about faking achievements that you didn't earn. If it really was just about enjoyment then you wouldn't give a shit about possessing rare items or titles that those who play a lot can get and you'd be enjoying what your limited time can get you. It's envy relief and nothing else.

    Having said that, what COE is proposing is orders of magnitude more honest and straightforward than the typical "Our official company RMT is cool but any other RMT is not" that has become the norm: it's either all horseshit that compromises a game's integrity or it's not.

    But hey, it's your game time. If you want to play the kind of game where your game play is undermined by cash, go for it and be part of the mildly amused casual gaming mainstream. I'm going to hold out for a different kind of game... but that's just me.






    But there is no denying that people with a lot of money and little time were not a good fit for traditional MMORPGs 

    Gen1 MMORPGd boiled down to one thing = time investment

    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.

    The obvious thing to do is let players use money to progress faster as time is the #1 constraint, not money.







    No. The obvious thing is to not play games that require large investments of time if you don't have the time to invest. But if you must, be content with achieving what you can with your limited time and stop whining about not being part of the elite 0.1%.

    I know, it's a hard concept for some to come to terms with: you can't do or have everything.

    RMT caters to posers... to gaming dilettantes. 
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • laseritlaserit Member EpicPosts: 5,399
    edited May 2017
    It's like the narcotic problem

    It isn't going to go away.

    I say sell the crap for pennies officially to drive the RMT companies out of business. Give the ones that earned the items the old fashioned way, achievements and titles. If you earned the item the proper way, have a title appear when the item is equipped. Anyone without a title while having the item equipped you would know that they acquired the item through RMT.
    Post edited by laserit on

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,431
    edited May 2017


    Iselin said:c





    DMKano said:







    Iselin said:




    I've never been a fan of the "time = money" rationalization for RMT simply because it ignores the fundamentals of playing games without external shortcuts or cheats. Besides, RMT is not about equalizing enjoyment - that's just a bullshit argument. RMT is about faking achievements that you didn't earn. If it really was just about enjoyment then you wouldn't give a shit about possessing rare items or titles that those who play a lot can get and you'd be enjoying what your limited time can get you. It's envy relief and nothing else.

    Having said that, what COE is proposing is orders of magnitude more honest and straightforward than the typical "Our official company RMT is cool but any other RMT is not" that has become the norm: it's either all horseshit that compromises a game's integrity or it's not.

    But hey, it's your game time. If you want to play the kind of game where your game play is undermined by cash, go for it and be part of the mildly amused casual gaming mainstream. I'm going to hold out for a different kind of game... but that's just me.










    But there is no denying that people with a lot of money and little time were not a good fit for traditional MMORPGs 

    Gen1 MMORPGd boiled down to one thing = time investment

    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.

    The obvious thing to do is let players use money to progress faster as time is the #1 constraint, not money.











    No. The obvious thing is to not play games that require large investments of time if you don't have the time to invest. But if you must, be content with achieving what you can with your limited time and stop whining about not being part of the elite 0.1%.

    I know, it's a hard concept for some to come to terms with: you can't do or have everything.

    RMT caters to posers... to gaming dilettantes. 






    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either
    Post edited by DMKano on
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,759

    Tiamat64 said:

    I hope CoE isn't based around competition over limited resources or something.  Such competitions suddenly become a lot less appealing to the majority of its niche playerbase if it doesn't seem like the competition is fair.  ....I think?  Though most whales (which is what CoE needs the most for funding, assuming it takes a whale-hunting approach to business) don't mind.


    Just read the summary of COE at the top of the forums where they hype a closed economy and finite resources...  


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    I've never had a problem with RMT since it happens anyway. In this case I really hope that they'll take a cut of the transactions. At least that way some of the money will be going back into the game. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,134

    DMKano said:




    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either


    When is a poser not a poser? When the average player poses. Nice alternative fact spin :)

    And yup, you can buy almost everything... is a bought achievement worth just as much as one you earned?
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • laseritlaserit Member EpicPosts: 5,399

    CrazKanuk said:

    I've never had a problem with RMT since it happens anyway. In this case I really hope that they'll take a cut of the transactions. At least that way some of the money will be going back into the game. 


    I could give a crap if some dough head bought his epic sword of epeen, but It would be of great benefit to get rid of all the RMT spam and account hacking in a game.
    MrMelGibson

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,759
    I this game it's not just about buying a sword of epeen.  It's about buying resources in a territory control game with a self described closed economy and finite resources.  

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • laseritlaserit Member EpicPosts: 5,399


    I this game it's not just about buying a sword of epeen.  It's about buying resources in a territory control game with a self described closed economy and finite resources.  


    Well then any kind of RMT (official or not) makes this title cease to be a game.

    IMHO

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    Finite resources will mean, zergs and large guilds monopolizing them. Once the dominant guild is established the rest will either quit or re-roll and join.

    Thus leaving the RMT bots to run 24/7 and the one big guild.

    And eventually everyone from the one big guild will leave because they got tired of fighting bots/npcs.
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,431

    Iselin said:



    DMKano said:





    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either




    When is a poser not a poser? When the average player poses. Nice alternative fact spin :)

    And yup, you can buy almost everything... is a bought achievement worth just as much as one you earned?




    A bought achievment in a video game... meh who cares? 

    A bought achievement in RL - huge difference.


    Same goes for a "poser" - we are talking about MMOs....right?
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 8,391
    These games are only good for the lulz.  :)


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,603
    If the game is going towards RMT then they need to set up an action house for that. One that people wont risk getting ripped off. They just put their stamp of approval on it. So going forward anything that goes wrong, its on them. 



  • laseritlaserit Member EpicPosts: 5,399
    This game look pretty cool when I first saw it, but the more and more I hear the more it sounds like a waste of time.

    If I'm going to play an RMT game, I'll just stick to the Game of Life.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,134

    DMKano said:



    Iselin said:





    DMKano said:






    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either






    When is a poser not a poser? When the average player poses. Nice alternative fact spin :)

    And yup, you can buy almost everything... is a bought achievement worth just as much as one you earned?






    A bought achievment in a video game... meh who cares? 

    A bought achievement in RL - huge difference.


    Same goes for a "poser" - we are talking about MMOs....right?


    Ah yes. The default "it's only a game so nothing matters" argument when you run out of real arguments :)

    So why did you care so much about cheating in BDO last year that you used to post on a daily basis about the latest BDO cheating outrage and the developer's incompetence? Wasn't BDO also just a game?

    Sorry bud not buying your situational "it's only a game" thing.

    Kind of reminds me of Iverson


    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 16,856
    You can sling mud at gold buyers all day, but it doesn't change anything. It doesn't make them go away or address the issue. Some people take this whole virtual achievement thing very seriously, others don't. The gold buyers don't really care about that stuff, or at least don't take it very seriously. It's just a game and a place to fool around.

    The problem in a game like this is that people can buy advantage that way. So what is to be done? Is it to be ignored and let play out how the community likes (after all they're buying the gold). Is it to be acknowledge with token PR efforts published to show them "fighting" it. Or is it acknowledged and dealt with in some other way?

    You're right. People buying gold and cheating sucks. Now what.
    MrMelGibson
    silent protagonist, dirty mmo gamer, filthy casual
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 18,431

    Iselin said: 



    DMKano said:





    Iselin said:







    DMKano said:







    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either








    When is a poser not a poser? When the average player poses. Nice alternative fact spin :)

    And yup, you can buy almost everything... is a bought achievement worth just as much as one you earned?








    A bought achievment in a video game... meh who cares? 

    A bought achievement in RL - huge difference.


    Same goes for a "poser" - we are talking about MMOs....right?




    Ah yes. The default "it's only a game so nothing matters" argument when you run out of real arguments :)

    So why did you care so much about cheating in BDO last year that you used to post on a daily basis about the latest BDO cheating outrage and the developer's incompetence? Wasn't BDO also just a game?

    Sorry bud not buying your situational "it's only a game" thing.

    Kind of reminds me of Iverson






    Cheating and RMT are not the same thing.

    Nice try Iselin - you are better than this.

    Somone posing as a doctor (amazingly this is still happening) and someone posing as max level character in raid gear with a bought acccount - yes there is a huge difference.

    BDO is just a game - and yes when it comes to exploiting and cheating where people were basically in God mode in BDO, again this is nowhere near RMT.

    Not sure why you are choosing to push such a flawed argument here.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130


    I this game it's not just about buying a sword of epeen.  It's about buying resources in a territory control game with a self described closed economy and finite resources.  



    So are you saying that these things would NOT be available from blackmarket sites if they didn't offer it? I think it's foolish to believe that. The problem isn't necessarily the RMT, but creating things that are finite which drive the price up and make them accessible only to the people looking to put a lot of real money into it. However, RMT has little to do with that, it's the model of the game that controls the value of in-game items. No? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,759

    CrazKanuk said:





    I this game it's not just about buying a sword of epeen.  It's about buying resources in a territory control game with a self described closed economy and finite resources.  





    So are you saying that these things would NOT be available from blackmarket sites if they didn't offer it? I think it's foolish to believe that. The problem isn't necessarily the RMT, but creating things that are finite which drive the price up and make them accessible only to the people looking to put a lot of real money into it. However, RMT has little to do with that, it's the model of the game that controls the value of in-game items. No? 


    No

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 11,134

    DMKano said:



    Iselin said: 





    DMKano said:







    Iselin said:









    DMKano said:








    But thats not what happened... as cash shops have shown clearly that people ARE willing to spend money to save time.

    There is no denying that video game industry has changed the players perception to where cash shops are accepted by majority of playerbase.

    RMT caters to people that dont mind spending money to enjoy their games.

    they are not posers - they are your average players today, as people realize hey throwing cash to speed up progress works.

    You can have most things if you are willing to spend money - not a very hard concept to understand either










    When is a poser not a poser? When the average player poses. Nice alternative fact spin :)

    And yup, you can buy almost everything... is a bought achievement worth just as much as one you earned?










    A bought achievment in a video game... meh who cares? 

    A bought achievement in RL - huge difference.


    Same goes for a "poser" - we are talking about MMOs....right?






    Ah yes. The default "it's only a game so nothing matters" argument when you run out of real arguments :)

    So why did you care so much about cheating in BDO last year that you used to post on a daily basis about the latest BDO cheating outrage and the developer's incompetence? Wasn't BDO also just a game?

    Sorry bud not buying your situational "it's only a game" thing.

    Kind of reminds me of Iverson








    Cheating and RMT are not the same thing.

    Nice try Iselin - you are better than this.

    Somone posing as a doctor (amazingly this is still happening) and someone posing as max level character in raid gear with a bought acccount - yes there is a huge difference.

    BDO is just a game - and yes when it comes to exploiting and cheating where people were basically in God mode in BDO, again this is nowhere near RMT.

    Not sure why you are choosing to push such a flawed argument here.


    You really didn't get why I brought up your posts about BDO cheating? Wow...

    Ok here it goes: NOT because cheating =  RMT (close but that wasn't the point) but because you chose to use the "it's only a game" thing, implying that any critique of RMT is too trivial to bother with while at the same time crusading about whatever game related thing interests you when you feel you have a solid argument.... just like you did with your BDO cheating crusade last year.

    Do you understand now why I brought that up just to highlight your "it's only a game" hypocrisy when it's something you don't have any problem with?
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130




    CrazKanuk said:








    I this game it's not just about buying a sword of epeen.  It's about buying resources in a territory control game with a self described closed economy and finite resources.  







    So are you saying that these things would NOT be available from blackmarket sites if they didn't offer it? I think it's foolish to believe that. The problem isn't necessarily the RMT, but creating things that are finite which drive the price up and make them accessible only to the people looking to put a lot of real money into it. However, RMT has little to do with that, it's the model of the game that controls the value of in-game items. No? 




    No




    So you believe that if they did NOT offer RMT in the game that it would lead to fair competition and that the same people ruling the game today (the theoretical today) wouldn't be the same people controlling the game with RMT in place? 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • Branko2307Branko2307 Member UncommonPosts: 298
    edited May 2017


    mcrippins said:


    IMO.. I wouldn't care about gold sellers and RMT if it weren't for all of the spamming, and making chat a completely useless feature.

    Spamming is gonna happen if you allow RMT or not, so is RMT tbh just less sucesfully.

    Post edited by Branko2307 on

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  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,180
    edited May 2017



    Torval said:



    It's not a few people that do this. No one who doesn't have their head up their butts knows it. We've had threads here before talking about people cheating and most here have done it. A multimillion dollar industry doesn't just pop up because a few people here or there aren't doing it.

    If a game has free trading RMT is going to happen because most mmo gamers are cheaters. There are very few games without a noticable RMT problem. LotRO is one of the few I can think of and that's mostly because very little of value can be traded.

    Most of the cheaters don't care or try and justify it like the guy who always posts about anti-bot software and getting banned from albion for buying gold.

    How many people in this thread have purchased gold/rmt or know a guildie or friend who did and didn't report them? Be honest with yourselves and don't try and make any excuses. Start taking responsibility and accountability for our own problem. If players didn't buy gold devs wouldn't have to fight it.






    Honestly I've never bought gold or anything else, yet I've known plenty who have, There were quite a few known ebayed/IGE'd Jedi on my old SWG server, one of my in-game friends sold his for a killing, another guy I knew was a bought Jedi who I grouped with regularly, until he was banned for harassment after hurling insults at a bunch of IMPs, while they had him locked in between a bunch of placed terminals. 

    A lot of dot weapons were acquired this way as well...I think people in general just accepted this back then, I don't remember much stink ever being raised over it TBH. I really don't care if someone buys their +5 sword of badassery today just as I didn't back then. 
    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 28,844
    Honestly once they went down the 3 month head start and buy to king route is there really any point to try and limit RMT from "this" game?

    I'll still try to give my money to devs who continue to resist, heck I'll pay a premium if it helps.

    Ten types of internet trolls - Which one are you?

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, back in EVE until then

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  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 3,417
    I think all I can do as an individual potential customer is that I simply avoid this game and do not spend any money on it. I mean on top of my "cash shops are evil" crusade on this forum. 

    I guess I am old-fashioned when I play only games which do not offer any ingame items or perks for real money.

    I do understand the business perspective, but I am here as an MMORPG enthusiast, not a CEO of a game developing company.
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