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Ashes of Creation and the Multi-Level Marketing connection

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  • finnelhirfinnelhir Member UncommonPosts: 29

    Nyctelios said:




    Distopia said:







    Nyctelios said:




    The funny part is my previous post defending this game is not a MLM.








    Honestly you're all over the place on this, you did say this earlier. "When it has clues that leads to nefarious schemes you can't blame them really."

    It's like you're trying to play this from all sides, at some point the message you're sending just becomes convoluted. 







    I'll apologize, since there are 2 threads about it I could have mixed the posts.

    What I meant with clues is what someone said above: People can research about what they are investing on and maybe if some things (like his previous ties to MLM) are kinda vague they'll fill those voids. Some will rationally seek answers, some goes full Lizard-people Illuminati controlling the world. 

    Now, you can't censure them, you can just clarify it.

    And there is no sides. I'm not playing in favor or against anyone. I work with the information given.

    The project seems nice, the actual assets are amazing, as it seems they'll make LoTRO monster play non-instanced and tied to GW2 dynamic events (which I love) - I'm worried about the lack of concept art for those mounts and rewards on the tiers in the KS, but the focus was on the guy himself... And then it derailed to people defending MLMs.


    Maybe the final product will not be the unholy saviour of the mmorpg world, but i dont think they will just scam people...

    We still remember Greedmonger. 
    Dude..where is my booze? 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Nyctelios said:


    I'll apologize, since there are 2 threads about it I could have mixed the posts.

    What I meant with clues is what someone said above: People can research about what they are investing on and maybe if some things (like his previous ties to MLM) are kinda vague they'll fill those voids. Some will rationally seek answers, some goes full Lizard-people Illuminati controlling the world. 

    Now, you can't censure them, you can just clarify it.


    There's no need to apologize, I'm of the mind that people just get far too serious about these things (on both sides), especially when it comes to what someone else does with their own money. 

    I don't think anyone needs to be censored, I just think folks need to step back, breath and chill. What will be, will be, people are always in such a blind rush to be right or post the most witty dig, it just gets mind boggling. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,822

    finnelhir said:



    Nyctelios said:






    Distopia said:









    Nyctelios said:





    The funny part is my previous post defending this game is not a MLM.










    Honestly you're all over the place on this, you did say this earlier. "When it has clues that leads to nefarious schemes you can't blame them really."

    It's like you're trying to play this from all sides, at some point the message you're sending just becomes convoluted. 









    I'll apologize, since there are 2 threads about it I could have mixed the posts.

    What I meant with clues is what someone said above: People can research about what they are investing on and maybe if some things (like his previous ties to MLM) are kinda vague they'll fill those voids. Some will rationally seek answers, some goes full Lizard-people Illuminati controlling the world. 

    Now, you can't censure them, you can just clarify it.

    And there is no sides. I'm not playing in favor or against anyone. I work with the information given.

    The project seems nice, the actual assets are amazing, as it seems they'll make LoTRO monster play non-instanced and tied to GW2 dynamic events (which I love) - I'm worried about the lack of concept art for those mounts and rewards on the tiers in the KS, but the focus was on the guy himself... And then it derailed to people defending MLMs.




    Maybe the final product will not be the unholy saviour of the mmorpg world, but i dont think they will just scam people...

    We still remember Greedmonger. 


    As I said before: "They mean serious business and not some dudes trying to zip their pants on stream".

    I also don't think they'll scam people. They have a business up and running.

    Some ultra protective moves (which are pretty standard for KS projects) annoys me; Like replying the same 3 or 4 high backers or picking questions that vaguely touches safe subjects, but again that's standard - - and why I don't back most of those projects.

    The Community Manager proceeded to mock a certain Twitch user after he said "discord will be sad" because they would not pick questions from Discord (and no, he did not offend her in any way) then both of them proceeded to attack each other on chat, trading "passive-aggressive" insults... that was weird as hell.

    I wish the alpha was earlier because I want to see their class-mix mechanics and dynamic events up and running.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; Genshin Impact

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017
    You go to the public looking for money, then get mad when the public talks about you?

    Get real.

    This thread raises very specific and direct concerns about the competence of management and its ability to deliver its stated goals.

    Sure its gets hyperbolic, welcome to the internet. Crying about the mere fact that people are criticizing the campaign and demanding the people be shut down and banned just shows how weak your position is.
  • skullhead51skullhead51 Member UncommonPosts: 18
    lol you guys may as well dig up the Steven Sharif's gaming history too.  Lots of salt from 3 years ago and he still plays archeage afaik.

    Video from 2 months ago:


  • kilunkilun Member UncommonPosts: 758
    I can't believe  some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank.  You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt.  To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009

    kilun said:

    I can't believe  some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank.  You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt.  To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.

    Reasoning like this is why MLM is successful and why devs can sit around collecting fat paychecks for years on your dime with little to show for it.


    My thoughts: this will probably end up being a good game that will be fun to play, even for a lot of the skeptics who are presently working hard to tear it down (what a shock) for no good reason beyond stroking their own fragile egos.

    /popcorn


    Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.

    Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,822

    kilun said:

    I can't believe  some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank.  You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt.  To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.


    Ah, come on, the old "get better things to do than discussing this" bit?

    In a forum thread.... of a MMORPG forum? Come on, person. Some people are blowing out of proportion but don't address it as if any discussion is a waste of time.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; Genshin Impact

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    Jacobin said:









    Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.

    Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.




    What is scary about it? people either get a decent game or they don't... Not exactly a scary outcome either way. The worst possible outcome is people losing money they gave away freely, knowing full well that could happen. Not exactly earth shattering consequences there. 


    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,822

    Distopia said:



    Jacobin said:









    Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.

    Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.




    What is scary about it? people either get a decent game or they don't... Not exactly a scary outcome either way. The worst possible outcome is people losing money they gave away freely knowing full well that could happen. Not exactly earth shattering consequences there. 




    As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.

    I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; Genshin Impact

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited May 2017


    Jacobin said:





    kilun said:



    I can't believe  some of you people are really that invested into who works there, what they did, etc. Shit KS is like that hot new stock that may be worth money or tank.  You roll the dice and more often than not your going to get burnt.  To be honest if a couple hundred bucks is that important to you at whatever point you are in life to not roll the dice and hope for a Critical success instead of a critical failure, you probably need to get your life into a better situation and stop worrying about the next bomb success or failure coming out of KS or the whole damn MMO genre.



    Reasoning like this is why MLM is successful and why devs can sit around collecting fat paychecks for years on your dime with little to show for it.






    My thoughts: this will probably end up being a good game that will be fun to play, even for a lot of the skeptics who are presently working hard to tear it down (what a shock) for no good reason beyond stroking their own fragile egos.

    /popcorn






    Based on what? We have a video with a few minutes of UE4 store assets footage that displays none of the core design features, 3 SOE guys, and a leader with zero IT management experience, zero games launched yet is asking for crowdfunding on his very first foray in the industry.

    Its scary how easy MMO players are able to be duped with nothing but a feature list and a stock assets video. Then again this is the genre that is dominated by P2W schemes. Not that shocking that a MLM guru would see an opportunity here.





    Again, it's not MLM and, second, if you think $1 million is a lot of money then you're insane. This KS probably buys them a year, maybe a little more. It's less than what has already been invested. It's like investing $1000 for the opportunity to make..... One THOUSAND DOLLARS!!! Muahahahaha 

    You our do seem to have a real issue with MLM for someone who doesn't really even understand what MLM is. It's probably all the TV shows telling you it's the devil. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Nyctelios said:


    As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.

    I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.


    I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.  

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • jefftpjefftp Member UncommonPosts: 13
    Thanks for the folks who dug up some more info. I'm surprised how people in this thread have rushed to defend Ashes of Creation based on what's been released so far. I'd expect more skepticism that an inexperienced team is going to produce a ground breaking MMORPG.

    The Kickstarter model for funding business ventures needs to fade away or evolve into a micro-investment market where participants are given ownership shares. The model today is just too easy to build a scam--making any project on Kickstarter look suspicious. (I'm not saying Ashes of Creation is a scam.) Did you know the original purpose of Kickstarter was to fund arts projects? At least there it made sense.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 3,822

    Distopia said:



    Nyctelios said:



    As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.

    I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.




    I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.  


    Yeah, that too. Jacobin is few steps of going full Mussolini slamming that speech podium.
    Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102 - GoG ID - 

    Current playing: 
    Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn - Shadowbringers; Genshin Impact

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • LIOKILIOKI Member UncommonPosts: 421
    edited May 2017










    Distopia said:









    Nyctelios said:






    As much I agree that the project is missing too much information to actually be going forward in KS (in contrast with them as a studio being organized and such) is not like they pointed guns on everybody head and forced them to pledge.

    I get your concerns, Jacobin, but let's discuss the topic as it is and avoid too much bashing.










    I couldn't honestly care less about folks bashing the project, that's to be expected when it comes to any game, it's the sensationalized hyperbolic fear mongering, as well as lecturing that's just downright absurd.  








    It's so, so stupid.  This is just a group of people trying to make a game.  Either support them or don't.  The doom and gloom stuff is such monumental bullshit.

    OMG, it's a scam, don't support these people trying to make a game we'd probably all love to play!  Instead let's shit on them with asinine commentary!!!






    Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    LIOKI said:












    Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.




    WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit. 

    The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games. 






    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,520

    Distopia said:




    LIOKI said:















    Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.






    WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit. 

    The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games. 








    I'm not tired of it, these KSer threads are pure gold in terms of entertainment.


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,316

    Kyleran said:



    Distopia said:






    LIOKI said:


















    Gamers are tired of it and voicing their disgust. If you don't like it then don't read them, or read them and then try to prop yourself up on some asinine commentary about their shitposts..... the real culprits here are Unity and unreal for giving out their engines for free and baiting all the mmorpg developer wannabe's out of the woodwork.








    WHy would anyone be tired of something they do not have to participate in? That makes little sense. That's like being tired of someone floating a tiny wooden boat at the community lake or being tired of a promoter putting on a show at a bar you don't even visit. 

    The only thing that would change if CF went away is nothing as far as mainstream games go, we'd have the same games publishers want to put out. That's it. Which for the MMO genre would be pretty much zilch at present, I know of one actual MMORPG in dev by a large publisher... (What ever Amazon is doing)... Who knows when that will even be shown let alone launched..So what is there to be tired of? ..... It's not like they're holding back AAA ideas because there are KS games. 










    I'm not tired of it, these KSer threads are pure gold in terms of entertainment.




    I can honestly say they have provided more fun than all the Fully Released Kickstarter MMORPGs combined!

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

    My ignore list finally has one occupant after 12 years. I am the strongest supporter of free speech on here, but free speech does not mean forced listening. Have fun my friend. Hope you find a new stalking target.

  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    the simple minded only fall for these kinda marketing/kickstarter campaigns

    And yes.. there alot of them
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    jefftp said:

    Thanks for the folks who dug up some more info. I'm surprised how people in this thread have rushed to defend Ashes of Creation based on what's been released so far. I'd expect more skepticism that an inexperienced team is going to produce a ground breaking MMORPG.

    The Kickstarter model for funding business ventures needs to fade away or evolve into a micro-investment market where participants are given ownership shares. The model today is just too easy to build a scam--making any project on Kickstarter look suspicious. (I'm not saying Ashes of Creation is a scam.) Did you know the original purpose of Kickstarter was to fund arts projects? At least there it made sense.



    They are actually starting to do the micro-investment model over at fig.io. They pair that with simple crowdfunding, though, since the micro-investments are like $1000 per "share". I do tend to agree that this is a cool model, and I do like it, but crowdfunding DOES provide value, if you pick and choose your projects correctly. I did back The Repopulation, but that's the only one out of 10 that was a stinker, and even it's coming back around. Other than that, I've found great value in crowdfunding, since I usually back at a lower level to just get the game. I find that it's usually 50% of the release price of the game, and then you get some frills that are of no value to me. So I'm "ahead" with my Kickstarters. With MMORPGs, and massive projects like this one, there is definitely added risk involved. So buyer beware! 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,527

    jefftp said:
    The Kickstarter model for funding business ventures needs to fade away or evolve into a micro-investment market where participants are given ownership shares. The model today is just too easy to build a scam--making any project on Kickstarter look suspicious. (I'm not saying Ashes of Creation is a scam.) Did you know the original purpose of Kickstarter was to fund arts projects? At least there it made sense.


    I don't think giving crowdfunders any shares in the project should be required, but I think they should be entitled to some financial data. Regular reports about how much money the project has left and how much salaries and other compensations its owners are getting would go a long way to prevent the worst scams.
     
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009



    Oh, should I place my faith in your self-righteous indignation over that of the what the developers have presented to us so far?  You know ... I don't think I will.   But you go right on explaining to everyone why they will fail.  I'm sure those who trust in your expertise in these matters will be all too willing to listen.


    Sigh, this is what people do when they have no actual defense for the the very specific concerns about this project. Just bury your head in the sand and shoot the messenger.

    Debating KS backers is akin to creationism. Once 'faith' and 'belief' in an idea take hold, very specific evidence that counters the narrative must be discredited at all costs.

    Again, you have a stock assets video and a team with very little experience and zero games shipped. Instead of claiming I am 'bashing' the game, how about the zealots defending this address these specific and direct concerns.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    Jacobin said:






    Oh, should I place my faith in your self-righteous indignation over that of the what the developers have presented to us so far?  You know ... I don't think I will.   But you go right on explaining to everyone why they will fail.  I'm sure those who trust in your expertise in these matters will be all too willing to listen.




    Sigh, this is what people do when they have no actual defense for the the very specific concerns about this project. Just bury your head in the sand and shoot the messenger.

    Debating KS backers is akin to creationism. Once 'faith' and 'belief' in an idea take hold, very specific evidence that counters the narrative must be discredited at all costs.

    Again, you have a stock assets video and a team with very little experience and zero games shipped. Instead of claiming I am 'bashing' the game, how about the zealots defending this address these specific and direct concerns.



    I don't think you've made it clear what your concerns are? If you list your specific concerns I'd be more than happy to address them. Don't get into all the gory details, just bullet point them. Give a quick summary. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Jacobin said:


    Sigh, this is what people do when they have no actual defense for the the very specific concerns about this project. Just bury your head in the sand and shoot the messenger.

    Debating KS backers is akin to creationism. Once 'faith' and 'belief' in an idea take hold, very specific evidence that counters the narrative must be discredited at all costs.

    Again, you have a stock assets video and a team with very little experience and zero games shipped. Instead of claiming I am 'bashing' the game, how about the zealots defending this address these specific and direct concerns.


    What makes you think anyone owes you a debate? Secondly why would anyone want a debate with someone who flies off the handle before they're even addressed by anyone?

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017
    CrazKanuk said:

    I don't think you've made it clear what your concerns are? If you list your specific concerns I'd be more than happy to address them. Don't get into all the gory details, just bullet point them. Give a quick summary.



    They have been voiced multiple times over and over. It boils down to lack of industry experience, a shady past and a stock assets video not being enough to believe they will deliver on their stated goals which include the 'Rebirth' of a billion dollar industry in under 2 years.

    You disagree, but at the same time are not backing the project so I have no idea what your stake is in all of this. You seem to just like googling stuff and writing long blog posts.

    Distopia said:

    What makes you think anyone owes you a debate? Secondly why would anyone want a debate with someone who flies off the handle before they're even addressed by anyone?



    Apparently people do care because like you, they keep replying in this thread. As a rational consumer, I do not like being misled and/or scammed so yes I will be very suspicious when a MLM guru decides to run a KS on his very first project in a new industry. If he was willing to take 100% of the risk on his own idea I wouldn't care.

    The precedent this sets is anyone (even a scammer) who is a 'fan' with some money can make a feature list and stock assets video and get public backing. Actual good developers who have in fact shipped good games and really need the help will get lost amidst these fans and frauds who think they are going to rebirth an industry.
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