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Ashes of Creation and the Multi-Level Marketing connection

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  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017
    How you can equate a guy with zero industry experience and a fresh college grad who are spouting off buzz word after buzz with few concrete details as 'smart' business and 'strong' leadership is a pretty amazing feat of mental gymnastics. You would think a consultant of all people would be able see past the marketing haze.

    A lot of dirt is coming out on Reddit.

    Edit: The fresh college grad CFO is married to the billionaire MLM creative director who is financing this.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Jacobin said:

    It is pretty shocking that the CEO and CFO have zero gaming experience and more people are not talking about this. Its basically a guy with money who hired some former SOE devs.

    The KS now makes a lot more sense with how its so light on MMO mechanics but full of eye candy and lofty ideals. Its all all about hype! positivity! change your life! Fix the genre! EXACTLY like how a MLM company operates.

    I have addressed this in other forums and I feel it is pertinent to do it here as well.

    Games that are developed in a vacuum, by nothing but gamers, tend to fail. Do a search of games that never made it release, and then look at the team behind the game. I bet you will find very few to no business majors in the mix. Vanguard is a good example here. Grandiose ideas (really good ones also) combined with financial idiocy, led to a game that could have been great but instead turned out mediocre and ended up being purchased by, you guess it a trip A studio. Too late ti turns out because even the might of SOE could not save that game.

    However, the same argument can not be used to the verse. Eve is a perfect example of a game that was designed and built as a business investment, and ended up being purchased by gamers and went on to see success. Simon and Schuster being the original developers of the game. Google it, I am done doing research for people. This is also one example.

    Most of your triple A game developers have people that are educated on contemporary business practices, and honestly, have your CEO and CFO being those types, is a good thing. However, we are also talking about games so if you have a business department you absolutely need the 'art' side of things as well. While Business types are good at bottom lines and numbers, they are not so good at accepting risk and imagination. There is a balance that is required and some give and take that needs to happen.

    All in all I think that the Ashes team is doing it properly. They have private funding that will allow the game to be made (their assertation, I have no opinion on whether it will/will not happen) and they have business smart people in the right places to ensure things stay sane and experienced game developers with a track record of success. Looking at history, as I suggest you do, they could have a very winning combination.

    I am speaking in very broad terms here, but I hope it clears up why you want non-gamers around to assist with your business because, at the end of the day, it IS a business and they usually want to make money.

    Hope this helps.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Torval said:

    No, the coolaid isn't strong. What a meat-headed gamer thing to say. They're talking smart business in their presentation. They've clearly laid out their plan and they show a business organization that isn't as well presented in most other projects.

    Business people running the business makes sense. I work for a small consulting business. We try hard to be successful. The owners are familiar with what the analysts, developers, and project managers do. They help create the billing framework for us, but they couldn't do the job. They rely on us to do ours and communicate with them. That's what the lead game developers will do for upper management.

    One of the core features of this project that seems very strong to me is their leadership has good business experience. That's so important. They understand how to hire and assemble an experienced team. That is the single most important task for an executive team building a business, right after the business plan itself.

    TL;DR - Business people do their job. Developers do theirs. Communication and planning are keys. These people exude competence in their kickstarter presentation.

    I am an Olead major...your words please me :) But seriously, well put and spot on.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • BestinnaBestinna Member UncommonPosts: 190
    lol AoC look so bad. can't wait for you all to beg for a refund.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017


    Hatefull said:



    Games that are developed in a vacuum, by nothing but gamers, tend to fail. Do a search of games that never made it release, and then look at the team behind the game. I bet you will find very few to no business majors in the mix. Vanguard is a good example here. Grandiose ideas (really good ones also) combined with financial idiocy, led to a game that could have been great but instead turned out mediocre and ended up being purchased by, you guess it a trip A studio. Too late ti turns out because even the might of SOE could not save that game.

    However, the same argument can not be used to the verse. Eve is a perfect example of a game that was designed and built as a business investment, and ended up being purchased by gamers and went on to see success. Simon and Schuster being the original developers of the game. Google it, I am done doing research for people. This is also one example.

    Most of your triple A game developers have people that are educated on contemporary business practices, and honestly, have your CEO and CFO being those types, is a good thing. However, we are also talking about games so if you have a business department you absolutely need the 'art' side of things as well. While Business types are good at bottom lines and numbers, they are not so good at accepting risk and imagination. There is a balance that is required and some give and take that needs to happen.

    All in all I think that the Ashes team is doing it properly. They have private funding that will allow the game to be made (their assertation, I have no opinion on whether it will/will not happen) and they have business smart people in the right places to ensure things stay sane and experienced game developers with a track record of success. Looking at history, as I suggest you do, they could have a very winning combination.

    I am speaking in very broad terms here, but I hope it clears up why you want non-gamers around to assist with your business because, at the end of the day, it IS a business and they usually want to make money.

    Hope this helps.




    TLDR You liked the video and art.

    Its not some brilliant business guy running this. He made his money in a very shady way and now thinks he can make an MMO. He hired his fresh grad liberal arts husband to be the CFO.

    You are getting sucked in by a marketing video which is this guy's specialty.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Jacobin said:

    How you can equate a guy with zero industry experience and a fresh college grad who are spouting off buzz word after buzz with few concrete details as 'smart' business and 'strong' leadership is a pretty amazing feat of mental gymnastics. You would think a consultant of all people would be able see past the marketing haze.

    A lot of dirt is coming out on Reddit.

    Edit: The fresh college grad CFO is married to the billionaire MLM creative director who is financing this.

    Becuase Reddit is heavily moderated and checked for facts. You can get as upset as you want, but history has shown that games that are developed by gamers with no oversight, fail.

    Fact: Business majors know business. One could argue that Brad MCquaid has a pretty good resume of game design and yet e could not get Vanguard to succeed. Had he had some oversight and been sober enough to take some advice from someone that could manage money and deadlines maybe we would be discussing how VG killed WoW. But we aren't, we are discussing how you fail to understand how business works alongside game development.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Bestinna said:

    lol AoC look so bad. can't wait for you all to beg for a refund.

    Compared to what?

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,464
    edited May 2017
    Jacobin said:


    TLDR You liked the video and art.

    Its not some brilliant business guy running this. He made his money in a very shady way and now thinks he can make an MMO. He hired his fresh grad liberal arts husband to be the CFO.

    You are getting sucked in by a marketing video which is this guy's specialty.

    I think it's more than obvious now that we are being sucked in... by @Jacobin the troll. :tongue:


    --------------------------------------------
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,125
    Huge promises and hype. People really want to believe that all its going to take is $750k and the game will launch in 1.5 years so we have this kind of thing every time someone makes huge promises on kickstarter with something that looks interesting and are willing to ignore everything for it to come to fruition.

    In 1.5 years we will hear new excuses on how development is hard and we should just give them more time while developers keep asking for more money. If it happened once or twice it wouldn't be so bad but with kickstarter mmorpg it happens time and time again.

    This time the guy behind it made his money convincing others that selling oils, minerals and juice for absurd prices will make them money in what can be best described as a pyramid scheme. For your sake I hope you are right but for someone that heard these sorts of promises over and over again I know how this story usually ends.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    You can keep discussing esoteric concepts while we in the actual world are finding out a lot of very concerning information about the people running this project.

    If you think a MLM guru and his new grad CFO husband are the best people to provide business oversight to a team with 2 programmers and a couple game designers who are promising to revolutionize the genre then go ahead and buy a lifetime package.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Jacobin said:




    Hatefull said:




    Games that are developed in a vacuum, by nothing but gamers, tend to fail. Do a search of games that never made it release, and then look at the team behind the game. I bet you will find very few to no business majors in the mix. Vanguard is a good example here. Grandiose ideas (really good ones also) combined with financial idiocy, led to a game that could have been great but instead turned out mediocre and ended up being purchased by, you guess it a trip A studio. Too late ti turns out because even the might of SOE could not save that game.

    However, the same argument can not be used to the verse. Eve is a perfect example of a game that was designed and built as a business investment, and ended up being purchased by gamers and went on to see success. Simon and Schuster being the original developers of the game. Google it, I am done doing research for people. This is also one example.

    Most of your triple A game developers have people that are educated on contemporary business practices, and honestly, have your CEO and CFO being those types, is a good thing. However, we are also talking about games so if you have a business department you absolutely need the 'art' side of things as well. While Business types are good at bottom lines and numbers, they are not so good at accepting risk and imagination. There is a balance that is required and some give and take that needs to happen.

    All in all I think that the Ashes team is doing it properly. They have private funding that will allow the game to be made (their assertation, I have no opinion on whether it will/will not happen) and they have business smart people in the right places to ensure things stay sane and experienced game developers with a track record of success. Looking at history, as I suggest you do, they could have a very winning combination.

    I am speaking in very broad terms here, but I hope it clears up why you want non-gamers around to assist with your business because, at the end of the day, it IS a business and they usually want to make money.

    Hope this helps.






    TLDR You liked the video and art.

    Its not some brilliant business guy running this. He made his money in a very shady way and now thinks he can make an MMO. He hired his fresh grad liberal arts husband to be the CFO.

    You are getting sucked in by a marketing video which is this guy's specialty.

    Yes, I do but that has nothing to do with what I said. I base my comments on facts, not "because I think so" or because I find something visually appealing. Essentially all you have said is: Nu-uh. I have also outlined examples to back up what I am saying, what have you presented besides, nuh-uh and barely veiled insults? Can you do better?

    And no, again I don't get "sucked in" to anything, facts buddy, facts is where it is at. Bring some to the discussion or be silent.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Shaigh said:

    Huge promises and hype. People really want to believe that all its going to take is $750k and the game will launch in 1.5 years so we have this kind of thing every time someone makes huge promises on kickstarter with something that looks interesting and are willing to ignore everything for it to come to fruition.

    In 1.5 years we will hear new excuses on how development is hard and we should just give them more time while developers keep asking for more money. If it happened once or twice it wouldn't be so bad but with kickstarter mmorpg it happens time and time again.

    This time the guy behind it made his money convincing others that selling oils, minerals and juice for absurd prices will make them money in what can be best described as a pyramid scheme. For your sake I hope you are right but for someone that heard these sorts of promises over and over again I know how this story usually ends.

    And you may end up being spot on, my only point is: You don't want art majors to handle your finances, and you don't want business majors to handle your game design. From what I have seen (on the ashes site) they have the creativity and the business model to handle what they want to do. In short, a good business model.

    Now will they follow through, will they be a genre changing development studio, hell I do not know that nor does anyone at this point. Humans are well human and any one of a million things can derail a project. Only time will tell. I am only discussing to the business model.

    As a side note, for anyone that cares, I do not back Kickstarter projects, as I see them all as bad investments, based on what I said above. While I believe they have a good model, anything can happen.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Jacobin said:

    You can keep discussing esoteric concepts while we in the actual world are finding out a lot of very concerning information about the people running this project.

    If you think a MLM guru and his new grad CFO husband are the best people to provide business oversight to a team with 2 programmers and a couple game designers who are promising to revolutionize the genre then go ahead and buy a lifetime package.

    And you can keep failing to present any facts while those of us that live and work in the real world consider you a troll. Which is all you are doing at this time.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009

    Hatefull said:

    Yes, I do but that has nothing to do with what I said. I base my comments on facts, not "because I think so" or because I find something visually appealing. Essentially all you have said is: Nu-uh. I have also outlined examples to back up what I am saying, what have you presented besides, nuh-uh and barely veiled insults? Can you do better?

    And no, again I don't get "sucked in" to anything, facts buddy, facts is where it is at. Bring some to the discussion or be silent.

    FACT: The guy running this has zero industry or tech experience and made his money through a MLM scheme based on marketing hype

    FACT: He hired his fresh grad liberal arts husband to be the CFO

    FACT: Team has 2 programmers and a few game designers

    FACT: They are promising to redfine the MMO genre in under 2 years with 750k + whatever MLM sugar daddy wants to spend

    Marc Jacobs and J Todd Coleman had both run game companies and made games I liked so I backed their KS projects. With Ashes the guy has a shady and seems to want to run an MMO as a pet project.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    Jacobin said:



    Hatefull said:


    Yes, I do but that has nothing to do with what I said. I base my comments on facts, not "because I think so" or because I find something visually appealing. Essentially all you have said is: Nu-uh. I have also outlined examples to back up what I am saying, what have you presented besides, nuh-uh and barely veiled insults? Can you do better?

    And no, again I don't get "sucked in" to anything, facts buddy, facts is where it is at. Bring some to the discussion or be silent.


    FACT: The guy running this has zero industry or tech experience and made his money through a MLM scheme based on marketing hype

    FACT: He hired his fresh grad liberal arts husband to be the CFO

    FACT: Team has 2 programmers and a few game designers

    FACT: They are promising to redfine the MMO genre in under 2 years with 750k + whatever MLM sugar daddy wants to spend

    Marc Jacobs and J Todd Coleman had both run game companies and made games I liked so I backed their KS projects. With Ashes the guy has a shady and seems to want to run an MMO as a pet project.



    On the first point, I think this was already addressed. You don't need to be in tech or anything else to run a company. You need to be a good business person. Jack Welch once wrote " if you're a leader and you're the smartest guy in the world - in the room, you have problems." 

    If you don't understand that quote then you don't know how to run a business. Effectively it means that a leader is there to find the smartest people in their discipline and have them use those skills to complete a task. If YOU are that "smartest guy" then you're super fucked because it means that YOU have to do everything. So if that's you, and you're the CEO, then your company is fucked. 

    On #2, do you know what a CFO does? I'm not entirely sure, but my guess is that it's more about managing people than money. It's also about accountability, so who else would you trust more than the person you put your dick in? 

    #3 I'm not sure what you're seeing as far as people are concerned. I see 11 linkedin profiles, all of which appear to be aligned with their skills and previous work experience. 

    #4 You're showing your ignorance thinking that they need the $750k to make the game. They've already released gameplay footage of the game. What did Marc Jacobs show in his? Oh yeah!!! A half-baked engine demo showing 500 models on pre-defined paths with zero textures on it. Cool bro. I totally see where you would be skeptical of this. 



    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited May 2017
    That is my point, industry veterans can't make a KS game - so why should we trust this guy? Because some random business guru made a quote once?

    A CFO is a highly experienced accountant, not a brand new liberal arts grad.

    You are putting your faith into a guy who made his money by convincing people to sell overpriced garbage to their friends and family.

    He is a sugar daddy with an MMO fetish. Good luck with that.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800

    Hatefull said:
    Fact: Business majors know business. One could argue that Brad MCquaid has a pretty good resume of game design and yet e could not get Vanguard to succeed.<snip>

     But we aren't, we are discussing how you fail to understand how business works alongside game development.



    Let's compare the two CFOs then.

    Visionary Realms CFO "With over 25 years of financial and operational management experience, "
    http://visionaryrealms.com/team/tim-sullivant/

    Intrepid CFO has zero financial and operational management experience.


    Both CFOs could be amazing, but one certainly has more experience.  And for people that know business, having the top financial person with experience calling the shots means a great deal.


    As for Vanguard, the game was rushed out unfinished and too big in scope.  Brad's sin was the cowardly way he fired his employees and inflexibility to adjust from his 'vision' due to technical limitations at the time.  For Pantheon his role is more an advisorial one and other people are leading the charge.  He acknowledged his strengths and letting other people run the business.  There's a lot of legitimate concerns about him and his past, so I think it's a good decision with his team makeup.  
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448
    edited May 2017


    Jacobin said:


    That is my point, industry veterans can't make a KS game - so why should we trust this guy? Because some random business guru made a quote once?

    A CFO is a highly experienced accountant, not a brand new liberal arts grad.

    You are putting your faith into a guy who made his money by convincing people to sell overpriced garbage to their friends and family.

    He is a sugar daddy with an MMO fetish. Good luck with that.


    LMAO well, I was trying to have a serious discussion with you but, and quite humorously, you just do no know how to do this. Jack Welch...some random business guru, that right there is priceless. Here before you embarrass yourself any further, take a look at this. Random business guru, that is hilarious.

    You are in fact no way qualified to discuss business practice, you have made that glaringly apparent. Again, very humorously so.

    You have a good day and hey, feel free to hit me up when you care to discuss some facts. lol

    Read this as well. This time it's free.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    You keep avoiding the very specific and valid concerns with the team and project and instead insert quotes that in no way address these problems.

    Fawning over celebs/gurus seems to be your specialty so this project is perfect.

    BTW I have an amazing business opportunity, its just $500 up front but you will be soon be your own boss  making several thousand dollars a week in the health products industry.....
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130

    Jacobin said:

    That is my point, industry veterans can't make a KS game - so why should we trust this guy? Because some random business guru made a quote once?

    A CFO is a highly experienced accountant, not a brand new liberal arts grad.

    You are putting your faith into a guy who made his money by convincing people to sell overpriced garbage to their friends and family.

    He is a sugar daddy with an MMO fetish. Good luck with that.



    Not true, there are plenty of games made by industry vets. Google inXile. That being said, take a look at Pantheon and Star Citizen. Both required that the company figureheads give way to people who are better at running a company, for the betterment of the company. Generally speaking, you want your "Hopes and Dreams" guy to be your Creative Director, not your CEO. 

    Again, I'd have to disagree with you on what CFOs need. Granted, they might be from the finance field, that isn't a requirement. Check out there responsibilities and also this article on what makes a good CFO. Notice that it doesn't say you need to be a really good accountant. Actually, I'd say accountants would make horrible CFOs only because they are more introverted people who tend to land in the area of a "C" type personality (check DiSC). What that means is that they are hyper-analytical, tactical people who are more solitary and aren't really people-person types. They do require the analytical minds, though, which would make an accountant who is good with people a great candidate.

    Let's see, lawyers, real estate agents, car dealers, anyone working on commission. Mechanics, electricians, plumbers, really any trades person. Each and every one of these people have fucked someone at some time. Shit! Even Marc Jacobs took your money and he didn't offer you 100% assurance that he was going to deliver, right? 

    I am putting my faith into nobody. In fact, I haven't decided whether or not I'll back this based on the fact that delivery of MMORPGs via crowdfunding has a storied history of NOT delivering. This could be the year that changes that, though, if you have faith in CU still, that is, and Pantheon, and SC, and Shards Online, and Albion Online. 

    In the end, YOU backed Marc Jacobs with LESS of a plan and less content than what these guys have. That's a FACT. I can appreciate that you might take issue with their team, but you're not providing any actual insight into why this will fail, it's all based on bias and pre-conceived notions about his past. Do you have the same problem with people who sell Avon or Mary Kay? Maybe next time one of those people come to your house you should fire the book back in their face and tell them to fuck off because they're scumbags, lol. I'd actually love seeing that video on YouTube. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • WaldoeWaldoe Member UncommonPosts: 642


    Deep concerns about this whole project after doing some research.

    For starters look at who is the about for this game.
    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

    Literally almost no one has any experience in the gaming industry.  I have no idea where they're getting those logos from because they sure aren't acknowledging them in the bios.  The only exception is one artist.

    Now lets look at the the Creative Director.  The guy running this whole thing.

    He worked with Xango, a multi-level marketing company.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XanGo

    The company itself is questionable about it's legality in operations.  Making claims in the past about the product doing more than what it actually can do.  It's a juice and the claims were that it can basically cure you of multiple ailments.  

    Here he is doing the ice bucket challenge for the company.


    John Oliver did a show on it, explaining how these companies operate.


    Now let's look at their referral program.
    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/referral-program/

    Sound familiar?



    Lost all credibility when referencing a comedian as a legitimate source of facts or news. You must be one of those millennials that used the Colbert Report and the Daily Show to get your "news" too.

    While it is true that Steven Sharif, worked for Xango for a while, its not like he created the company and was responsible for its overall operation and/or morale standards. Really a stretch to connect the dots on the negative picture you are trying to paint there.

    John Moore has a background in business which makes a whole lot more sense than a game industry vet with no business background managing the financial front. Even if Moore's experience is little to none I'd still says its better because of the foundation he has.

    Also, research is really hard. 

    Jeffery Bard - Worked at SOE for 8 years. Everquest II specifically named as a game he worked on.

    Jason Crawford - Worked at SOE for over 10 years. Worked on EQ: Next, Landmark and a couple unreleased titles. 

    Michael Bacon - Started his own company Big Shiny Games and created a 2D shooter called Retro Assault. He also worked at SOE for 10 years working on Everquest II and other unnamed titles.

    Tryston Snodgrass - Worked on Bioshock and XCOM. Previously a main level developer for the Point of Existence 2 Mod for Battlefield 2.

    David Thorfield - Worked several years as an animator for Jumpstart, the company that creates educational game for children.

    Jon Arelleno - Seems to be a more junior member of the team but even he worked for Daybreak for a time and helped develop mobile games for Octopro games.

    Keith Kovach - While he has years of experience with his particular craft, none of it appears to be in the gaming industry.

    Jeff Delliere - Worked for a Canadian video game company called Behavior Interactive doing artwork. He also did illustration and artwork for well known publisher HarperCollins and Nickelodeon.

    Peter Pilone - No additional information available.

    Matthew Reynolds - No additional information available.

    A handful of the guys worked at SOE for almost 10 years or more so it is completely plausible that at some point or another SWG, Planetside, Vangaurd and the original EQ were things they worked on, even if it was brief. The only connection that can't be logically made with the information at hand is to CoD/Treyarch, but that could also be one of the two guys that there was no additional information on.
  • HatefullHatefull Member EpicPosts: 2,448

    Jacobin said:

    You keep avoiding the very specific and valid concerns with the team and project and instead insert quotes that in no way address these problems.

    Fawning over celebs/gurus seems to be your specialty so this project is perfect.

    BTW I have an amazing business opportunity, its just $500 up front but you will be soon be your own boss  making several thousand dollars a week in the health products industry.....

    LOl and you have yet to present a legitimate business concern, nor one fact to back up any of your claims. Your very specific and valid concerns are specific I give you that, but founded in YOUR OPINION based on what is obviously a distinct lack of any type of business knowledge. In short, you are too ignorant to discuss this topic. So stop, as I said before you only succeed in embarrassing yourself. 

    I own my own business in the International Security field, I also do consulting and training. I have in the recent past and will in the future high people just out of school to help me run my business, and to date, I have seen some real good success with that.

    Also, fawning? Seriously? Showing respect to one of the most respected business leaders on the planet is not fawning it is, however, being an intelligent, secure, well-adjusted, and mature person. 

    At any rate, I do need to get to work, so we are done here. As a side note, if you look into your local community college for the introduction to business courses, you may be able to, in the future have an actual discussion on these topics, without ahem, being embarrassed.

    Good day, we are done here.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

    In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800

    CrazKanuk said:

    Again, I'd have to disagree with you on what CFOs need. Granted, they might be from the finance field, that isn't a requirement.


    Having a Business Management degree of some sort should certainly be a requirement for a CFO.  

    Saying that a CFO shouldn't be required to have any experience in the financial field is crazy.

    Here's bullet points of responsibilities -

    • Accomplishes finance human resource strategies by determining accountabilities; communicating and enforcing values, policies, and procedures; implementing recruitment, selection, orientation, training, coaching, counseling, disciplinary, and communication programs; planning, monitoring, appraising, and reviewing job contributions; planning and reviewing compensation strategies.
    • Develops finance organizational strategies by contributing financial and accounting information, analysis, and recommendations to strategic thinking and direction; establishing functional objectives in line with organizational objectives.
    • Establishes finance operational strategies by evaluating trends; establishing critical measurements; determining production, productivity, quality, and customer-service strategies; designing systems; accumulating resources; resolving problems; implementing change.
    • Develops organization prospects by studying economic trends and revenue opportunities; projecting acquisition and expansion prospects; analyzing organization operations; identifying opportunities for improvement, cost reduction, and systems enhancement; accumulating capital to fund expansion.
    • Develops financial strategies by forecasting capital, facilities, and staff requirements; identifying monetary resources; developing action plans.
    • Monitors financial performance by measuring and analyzing results; initiating corrective actions; minimizing the impact of variances.
    • Maximizes return on invested funds by identifying investment opportunities; maintaining relationships with the investment community.
    • Reports financial status by developing forecasts; reporting results; analyzing variances; developing improvements.
    • Updates job knowledge by remaining aware of new regulations; participating in educational opportunities; reading professional publications; maintaining personal networks; participating in professional organizations.
    • Accomplishes finance and organization mission by completing related results as needed.

    Chief Financial Officer Skills and Qualifications:

    Financial Planning and Strategy, Managing Profitability, Strategic Planning, Vision, Quality Management, Promoting Process Improvement, Forecasting, Corporate Finance, Developing Budgets, Financial Skills, Dealing with Complexity

    https://hiring.monster.com/hr/hr-best-practices/recruiting-hiring-advice/job-descriptions/chief-financial-officer-job-description-sample.aspx


    I mean on some of this stuff you can't argue.  These are facts.  Fact is a CFO needs/should be required to have some financial background.  I mean the name is Chief FINANCIAL Officer.  Are there other requirements in addition?  Yes.  That's why you normally see experienced people with business management experience in these roles.  At the very least they usually have a MBA in lieu of real work experience.


  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    University of Google oh my..

    Saying an accountant would not make a good CFO is hilarious. Go lookup up bios on basically any CFO for a large company and 99% are accountants or from finance. 

    Marc Jacobs was very specific about his vision and mechanics prior to KS and while CU did not have content he had a track record of building one of the most successful and influential games in the genre (and also a flop).

    Its funny to me that the guys who defend the game the most are not even backers. You call me a troll yet you are the ones who want to argue for something you have no stake in. 


  • JayFiveAliveJayFiveAlive Member UncommonPosts: 598
    edited May 2017
    This KS turned sketchy as F. I hope it all turns out fine. I want the game to succeed, but I personally wouldn't back this even if I was filthy rich. I'd much rather back Pantheon with the sketchy background of Brad and the initial donation money being used for medical stuff than this one.
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