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A Pledge

First this DOES deserve it's own topic !!

Next, I'm not even going to look up the definition of the word Pledge because I understand what V Realms is doing.


I hold no allegiance to anyone, I'm just another fan of Pantheon.


This company is trying to give us a true mmo.  Their not a mainstream company with shareholders and they have limited cash resources.  We shouldn't care about past personal histories, we should only care about the here and now or THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU !

This company is up front on what it's doing.  They are asking for help in delivering a product for us.  They understand the need and demand and they are trying to give us something many of us want.


It takes guts to make an mmo !!!!.......We should all know this by now.  The cost is high.  For most NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT until the product is delivered.  This could take years of no pay unless their is something I don't know.  Their is the possibility they are getting some funding from sources that do ask for profit, but you know what ?  That's none of our business.  But one thing for sure, they need to pay this back, and that's stress.

Does V Realms want to make a living ?....... Sure they do !

Does V Realms want to excel and be rich if that 1% chance of making it happen and things go their way ?..... Sure they do !


Could you imagine the cost ?..... I'm not a programmer or a business man, but one thing I do know.  $100 doesn't even give one days pay with health care to any worker at least in the United States.


I'll close with this:

Give freely, and take their LITTLE GIFT because they APPRECIATE what your doing.  If not don't do anything !


I don't care if anyone responds to this, I don't care if you agree or not..... I may even bump this to the top a few times, until everyone understands what the pledge is for.
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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,027
    Maybe you should have looked up the definition of pledge.  I particularly like the legal meaning.

    LAW
    a thing that is given as security for the fulfillment of a contract or the payment of a debt and is liable to forfeiture in the event of failure.
    synonyms:suretybondsecuritycollateral,guaranteedeposit
    "he gave it as a pledge to a creditor"

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,024
    Thanks for the explanation OP. I will now firmly disregard everything you wrote, think for myself and make up my own mind. Thanks!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 649
    Hey OP, pls dont drink and post.
    It's bad for your reputation.


    Have a great one!

    image
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594

    lahnmir said:

    Thanks for the explanation OP. I will now firmly disregard everything you wrote, think for myself and make up my own mind. Thanks!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir



    And don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.


  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,546
    I'd like a pledge from them that they won't use the money for personal stuff like they did before.
    Chamber of Chains
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,701


    First this DOES deserve it's own topic !!

    Next, I'm not even going to look up the definition of the word Pledge because I understand what V Realms is doing.


    I hold no allegiance to anyone, I'm just another fan of Pantheon.


    This company is trying to give us a true mmo.  Their not a mainstream company with shareholders and they have limited cash resources.  We shouldn't care about past personal histories, we should only care about the here and now or THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU !

    This company is up front on what it's doing.  They are asking for help in delivering a product for us.  They understand the need and demand and they are trying to give us something many of us want.


    It takes guts to make an mmo !!!!.......We should all know this by now.  The cost is high.  For most NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT until the product is delivered.  This could take years of no pay unless their is something I don't know.  Their is the possibility they are getting some funding from sources that do ask for profit, but you know what ?  That's none of our business.  But one thing for sure, they need to pay this back, and that's stress.

    Does V Realms want to make a living ?....... Sure they do !

    Does V Realms want to excel and be rich if that 1% chance of making it happen and things go their way ?..... Sure they do !


    Could you imagine the cost ?..... I'm not a programmer or a business man, but one thing I do know.  $100 doesn't even give one days pay with health care to any worker at least in the United States.


    I'll close with this:

    Give freely, and take their LITTLE GIFT because they APPRECIATE what your doing.  If not don't do anything !


    I don't care if anyone responds to this, I don't care if you agree or not..... I may even bump this to the top a few times, until everyone understands what the pledge is for.


    In Pantheon's case, a pledge is a purchase where
    1. The customer pays VR money immediately, or in monthly payments
    2. VR agrees to provide the customer with products and services listed in the pledge's description. Some will be provided immediately, while others will be provided as soon as VR manages to make and deliver them

    You could have just asked what a pledge is instead of making that kind of post.
     
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594

    cheyane said:

    I'd like a pledge from them that they won't use the money for personal stuff like they did before.



    This is a good point.  Please don't take this is an argument.  But part of money is to pay " wages " and could you imagine how tired they are ?


    So if they feel like spending some of it to go out as a team and have a few beers, can you blame them ?


    They seem very passionate in what their doing :)
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594
    edited April 2017


    Vrika said:








    First this DOES deserve it's own topic !!

    Next, I'm not even going to look up the definition of the word Pledge because I understand what V Realms is doing.


    I hold no allegiance to anyone, I'm just another fan of Pantheon.


    This company is trying to give us a true mmo.  Their not a mainstream company with shareholders and they have limited cash resources.  We shouldn't care about past personal histories, we should only care about the here and now or THIS GAME IS NOT FOR YOU !

    This company is up front on what it's doing.  They are asking for help in delivering a product for us.  They understand the need and demand and they are trying to give us something many of us want.


    It takes guts to make an mmo !!!!.......We should all know this by now.  The cost is high.  For most NO RETURN ON INVESTMENT until the product is delivered.  This could take years of no pay unless their is something I don't know.  Their is the possibility they are getting some funding from sources that do ask for profit, but you know what ?  That's none of our business.  But one thing for sure, they need to pay this back, and that's stress.

    Does V Realms want to make a living ?....... Sure they do !

    Does V Realms want to excel and be rich if that 1% chance of making it happen and things go their way ?..... Sure they do !


    Could you imagine the cost ?..... I'm not a programmer or a business man, but one thing I do know.  $100 doesn't even give one days pay with health care to any worker at least in the United States.


    I'll close with this:

    Give freely, and take their LITTLE GIFT because they APPRECIATE what your doing.  If not don't do anything !


    I don't care if anyone responds to this, I don't care if you agree or not..... I may even bump this to the top a few times, until everyone understands what the pledge is for.






    In Pantheon's case, a pledge is a purchase where
    1. The customer pays VR money immediately, or in monthly payments
    2. VR agrees to provide the customer with products and services listed in the pledge's description. Some will be provided immediately, while others will be provided as soon as VR manages to make and deliver them

    You could have just asked what a pledge is instead of making that kind of post.





    I'm giving the human side of things...... I don't give a rats butt about legal stuff !
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 4,024




    lahnmir said:


    Thanks for the explanation OP. I will now firmly disregard everything you wrote, think for myself and make up my own mind. Thanks!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir





    And don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.




    Who says I am leaving? I just won't let you tell me 'how things are,' random internet dude with random opinion.

    And to be clear, I 'll be pledging for Beta next week, yesterdays live stream convinced me of that. Right now? Waiting for my wife to go into labor, else I would do it now.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,074
    Eh, they have enough money IMO, between the website pledges, an angel investor and most recently an 'A' level line of credit (they can call it whatever they want, its a line of credit).  It does look good and I'll buy a box when it releases. 

    But I am most interested in Superhero type games, so if I am going to pledge to anything that is not ready to release, it will be to games in that genre.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594

    lahnmir said:








    lahnmir said:



    Thanks for the explanation OP. I will now firmly disregard everything you wrote, think for myself and make up my own mind. Thanks!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir







    And don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out.






    Who says I am leaving? I just won't let you tell me 'how things are,' random internet dude with random opinion.

    And to be clear, I 'll be pledging for Beta next week, yesterdays live stream convinced me of that. Right now? Waiting for my wife to go into labor, else I would do it now.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir



    I'm trying to understand your point here.

    This blunt post may not pertain to you !....... It does for a lot of others that are trying to put demands on a Pledge.


    It also doesn't have any reflection on the game being made.   It's a post about SELFISHNESS.


    The best part of being a random internet dude is.  I'm not part of V Realms PR team.... I can say anything I feel..... The unspoken !
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093
    I will start by saying I pledge to this game twice, once under my name and once for my wife. I appreciate what the OP is trying to do but the line in the sand helps no one. Pledging is a personal choice. It's about giving some of your money to a project that there is no guarantee you will get a product. 

    It's about being willing to part with your money for a vision you want to see be birthed into the world. So that you may enjoy what you want. Never pledge what you can't afford to lose. You may get some reward for a pledge but that's not the point. It's about being a small part of supporting something bigger. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited April 2017
    Contractions are your friend. :) That said, the only point I see a problem with is the idea no one should care about past actions, when those actions were taking other's money given for an exchange of goods,  and spending it on personal BS. That's a rather important factor.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RaquisRaquis Member RarePosts: 1,018
    i will never crowdfund a game again i learned my lesson with shroud of the avatar.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited April 2017


    Distopia said:


    Contractions are your friend. :) That said, the only point I see a problem with is the idea no one should care about past actions, when those actions were taking other's money given for an exchange of goods,  and spending it on personal BS. That's a rather important factor.




    What does this even mean? You do realize that most money, both before and after a game is created, goes to the people who are making it; and those people spend it on "bullshit things" they need to enable them to continue making the game.


  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    We are here because we spend our money on video games talking about other people spending their money on bullshit. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,219

    Raquis said:

    i will never crowdfund a game again i learned my lesson with shroud of the avatar.


    There is a lesson there but it's not "necessarily" not to crowd fund games (though it very well could be).

    What did Shroud of the Avatar show when they asked for money? Nothing really, just talked about what the developer had done before. I can see where that might be persuasive but it doesn't speak to whether they really can deliver a product that one wants. Just that they have delivered products.

    I think that waiting to see what they can offer, what they have completed is the crux of giving to a kickstarter. Or, looking at what they say they are going to do and, given past similar examples, can what they say they will do be done on what is being asked.

    If the most famous, well thought of, game designer (fill in the blank there) says he/she will make a game with all these bells and whistles and lists "200k" as the kickstarter then that is far more sketchy than a little know developer showing a practically completed project and just needs 200k for polish, implementing some final features and testing.

    It also depends on what the project is. If someone asks for 1 million  to make a huge 3d game with all these amazing features then that seems like there is far more risk than someone asking for 1 million to make a game like pillars of eternity or darkest dungeon.

    If one is to give to these projects a level of common sense needs to take over. I have yet to pledge to a game or project that didn't come to fruition. There's always a first time of course but I don't give to projects where someone just says "hey, I've done it before and will do it again" unless I see something substantial.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited April 2017
    Hmmm..  No, I'll just pay a regular box price, play when the bugs have been ironed out, and not delude myself into thinking my posts on an official forum are helping in any way to "shape the game" and my pledge is feeding starving artists.

    And if it doesn't make it to release due to lack of funding/interest, I'll have my answer for whether or not it was worth the cost of entry.  All without spending a dime or minute of my time or money attempting to chase a pipe dream.

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Dullahan said:




    Distopia said:



    Contractions are your friend. :) That said, the only point I see a problem with is the idea no one should care about past actions, when those actions were taking other's money given for an exchange of goods,  and spending it on personal BS. That's a rather important factor.






    What does this even mean? You do realize that most money, both before and after a game is created, goes to the people who are making it; and those people spend it on "bullshit things" they need to enable them to continue making the game.


    You know exactly what I was referring to...There's a huge difference between paying salaries which is what the money is for and the past allegations against BM. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093

    Distopia said:



    Dullahan said:






    Distopia said:




    Contractions are your friend. :) That said, the only point I see a problem with is the idea no one should care about past actions, when those actions were taking other's money given for an exchange of goods,  and spending it on personal BS. That's a rather important factor.








    What does this even mean? You do realize that most money, both before and after a game is created, goes to the people who are making it; and those people spend it on "bullshit things" they need to enable them to continue making the game.




    You know exactly what I was referring to...There's a huge difference between paying salaries which is what the money is for and the past allegations against BM. 


     I pledged after Brad was removed from the business end of things. What happened true or not matters not. With all the drama he is best in the position we all want him in most. Making the game, no one can make a game like he can. No one can make a mix of classes we love as well as he can. Past is that. Lets focus on the good. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited April 2017



    Nanfoodle said:







     I pledged after Brad was removed from the business end of things. What happened true or not matters not. With all the drama he is best in the position we all want him in most. Making the game, no one can make a game like he can. No one can make a mix of classes we love as well as he can. Past is that. Lets focus on the good. 






    I don't really care either way as I wouldn't pledge anyway, if they hit Steam EA at some point I'd look into it. Anyway I was just pointing out to the Op I can see why people would hold that against him still, with him in that position or not. I wouldn't have said it at all had it not been for this line in the OP... "We shouldn't care about past personal histories"

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,546

    Distopia said:





    Nanfoodle said:









     I pledged after Brad was removed from the business end of things. What happened true or not matters not. With all the drama he is best in the position we all want him in most. Making the game, no one can make a game like he can. No one can make a mix of classes we love as well as he can. Past is that. Lets focus on the good. 








    I don't really care either way as I wouldn't pledge anyway, if they hit Steam EA at some point I'd look into it. Anyway I was just pointing out to the Op I can see why people would hold that against him still, with him in that position or not. I wouldn't have said it at all had it not been for this line in the OP... "We shouldn't care about past personal histories"


    That is just it though the OP through his blundering attempts have always managed to draw sometimes unwarranted attention to the very things that should not be focussed on. By claiming for instance this game will overtake WoW or be the huge (echoes of Trump) he just attracts unnecessary comments and observation this game can do without.

    Here's a classic example of doing exactly that and bringing once again to the fore the allegations this team and Brad would like to be perhaps not be reminded of. One wonders if this is by design or pure clumsiness.
    Chamber of Chains
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594

    cheyane said:



    Distopia said:







    Nanfoodle said:











     I pledged after Brad was removed from the business end of things. What happened true or not matters not. With all the drama he is best in the position we all want him in most. Making the game, no one can make a game like he can. No one can make a mix of classes we love as well as he can. Past is that. Lets focus on the good. 










    I don't really care either way as I wouldn't pledge anyway, if they hit Steam EA at some point I'd look into it. Anyway I was just pointing out to the Op I can see why people would hold that against him still, with him in that position or not. I wouldn't have said it at all had it not been for this line in the OP... "We shouldn't care about past personal histories"




    That is just it though the OP through his blundering attempts have always managed to draw sometimes unwarranted attention to the very things that should not be focussed on. By claiming for instance this game will overtake WoW or be the huge (echoes of Trump) he just attracts unnecessary comments and observation this game can do without.

    Here's a classic example of doing exactly that and bringing once again to the fore the allegations this team and Brad would like to be perhaps not be reminded of. One wonders if this is by design or pure clumsiness.



    Trump !!!!!
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534

    Distopia said:



    Dullahan said:






    Distopia said:




    Contractions are your friend. :) That said, the only point I see a problem with is the idea no one should care about past actions, when those actions were taking other's money given for an exchange of goods,  and spending it on personal BS. That's a rather important factor.








    What does this even mean? You do realize that most money, both before and after a game is created, goes to the people who are making it; and those people spend it on "bullshit things" they need to enable them to continue making the game.




    You know exactly what I was referring to...There's a huge difference between paying salaries which is what the money is for and the past allegations against BM. 


    The allegation that he paid himself a salary, as the founder and head of a company, which was larger than other employees received to pay those "bullshit things" we call bills, after having not receiving a paycheck for nearly a year while starting Visionary Realms and Pantheon?

    Yeah, I'm familiar with it.

    Whether he jumped the gun by assuming that similar funding generated by the Kickstarter campaign would come in, or it was truly selfish, it was admittedly a mistake; and either way, what it was spent on was unlikely bullshit.


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,594

    cheyane said:



    Distopia said:







    Nanfoodle said:











     I pledged after Brad was removed from the business end of things. What happened true or not matters not. With all the drama he is best in the position we all want him in most. Making the game, no one can make a game like he can. No one can make a mix of classes we love as well as he can. Past is that. Lets focus on the good. 










    I don't really care either way as I wouldn't pledge anyway, if they hit Steam EA at some point I'd look into it. Anyway I was just pointing out to the Op I can see why people would hold that against him still, with him in that position or not. I wouldn't have said it at all had it not been for this line in the OP... "We shouldn't care about past personal histories"




    That is just it though the OP through his blundering attempts have always managed to draw sometimes unwarranted attention to the very things that should not be focussed on. By claiming for instance this game will overtake WoW or be the huge (echoes of Trump) he just attracts unnecessary comments and observation this game can do without.

    Here's a classic example of doing exactly that and bringing once again to the fore the allegations this team and Brad would like to be perhaps not be reminded of. One wonders if this is by design or pure clumsiness.



    It's morning and I have more time to respond,


    Chevane, I can see what your doing. Your being the type that wouldn't allow anyone to be loud. If any attempts to bring up a problem or a REAL issue or even a personal statement, you regard it as making trouble. "Life is beautiful and don't disturb that".  Well the world is made up of all kinds and I'm ok with that, the yin and yang thing.  Apparently were on opposite sides ( echoes of Trump ).


    Call me a fighter or what ever you like.  But I stick up for what is right and that's that !


    Visionary Realms is doing something really nice for us, I think we can both agree on that, however often people pee all over it....... Well, sorry I'll be loud and blunt !..... You would be handle it nicely !..... Their is no changing either one of us.


    I have a personal statement. "Pantheon will be big" as long as they deliver.  Why  am I saying this as a PERSONAL OPINION ?...... Because everything for the past several years is crap. Every one, and all we have are Asian grinders with cash shops.  People have a love for mmos, a very deep love !  And with this they will play anything to get a fix only to be disappointed 30 days later EVERY TIME.  This is a fact. I guess it's human nature to be kicked in the teeth and stand back up for more.  Look at the common people of North Korea...... Well, I for one do not Yield, I'll get that gate open for everyone or die trying.   
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