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Was all ready to pledge after the stream, then I looked at the pledge page...

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  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    edited June 2017
    svann said:
    Let's see... one, one thousand dollar pledge for a game in early development or one hundred dollar gold level packages for ten games about to be released... decisions, decisions...
    Honestly, Im not about to pledge to Pantheon.
    But Im even less likely to pledge to any of those other games as I would have no interest in playing them so it would be wasted whether the game was a success or not.

    Seriously?  Get serious
    I am serious.  It's how I look at it.  And say the game is a big hit and everything I wanted and more.  Am I gonna kick myself in the rear for not buying in during Kickstarter?  No.  I'm going to buy in after I see it's developed into something I want.  So I missed some titles and pets and skins, I'll enjoy being in the game after it's launched and bugs have been ironed out for many many many years.  I'm in no hurry.  If it's not what I'm interested in I've lost nothing.
    I can respect that you dont think it wise to invest in an unknown.
    But saying you would rather pledge in other games based on the fact that their pledge package is superior is just ludicrous.
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid Member EpicPosts: 10,493
    they probably just say that most common is 1k so that you are more likely to do it . ..?
    marketing through deception. A quick way for me to completely ignore their existence.




  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,373
    I wish i never heard about these outrageous pledge numbers because it turns me right off.
    Now i pretty much have no game to look forward to ..sigh.

    Guess i'll keep playing Gorgon and FFXI until something worth my time and money comes out.

    Do any legit,fair businessmen still reside within mmorpg studios?

    This has been by far the worst era in gaming,little to no improvements but tons of new ways to scam people out of their money.
    I remember just a few years ago devs didn't like the idea o remastering,now they see how easily people throw money around and tons of games are being remastered.Devs don't even have to put much effort into the remaster,just says "Remastered" and people  are buying it.


    BTW >>>>"makes sense".Well if the game/ideas make sense,why not get it funded instead of prying unfair amounts from gamer's?I said it several years ago,if you want me to fund your game,then i want top value shares,a % of all profits.Your not taking my money and running with it.
    jpedrote52

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • KrimzinKrimzin Member UncommonPosts: 687
    edited June 2017
    Business is business. Crowd funding is just another business model. 
    I think the pledge numbers are more that fair. I am doing the $300 because it has what I want. To some $300 may be a lot. To me it isn't pocket change but its not a huge amount either. Its all about your income level.
    If you aren't working or you're in college, I'm sure the pledges seem stupidly high. To someone making a solid income, you don't even blink until you get to upper tiers.
    I think the Pantheon target audience is 28-50+, which in most cases means a decent income level.

    Obviously, this is just my opinion.

    Edit: @Wizardry ;
    The last part of your post is borderline whining. With 12494 posts, I believe you are one of the groups who look at the pledge numbers as stupidly high.
    If you don't think its fair, then move along and play something else.
    good luck.
    Torval

    Just because I'm a gamer doesn't mean I drive a Honda.
    Best Duo Ever

    Lets see your Battle Stations /r/battlestations
    Battle Station 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,019
    Wizardry said:
    I wish i never heard about these outrageous pledge numbers because it turns me right off.
    Now i pretty much have no game to look forward to ..sigh.

    Guess i'll keep playing Gorgon and FFXI until something worth my time and money comes out.

    Do any legit,fair businessmen still reside within mmorpg studios?

    This has been by far the worst era in gaming,little to no improvements but tons of new ways to scam people out of their money.
    I remember just a few years ago devs didn't like the idea o remastering,now they see how easily people throw money around and tons of games are being remastered.Devs don't even have to put much effort into the remaster,just says "Remastered" and people  are buying it.


    BTW >>>>"makes sense".Well if the game/ideas make sense,why not get it funded instead of prying unfair amounts from gamer's?I said it several years ago,if you want me to fund your game,then i want top value shares,a % of all profits.Your not taking my money and running with it.
    Pro tip. It's not your money they are after.

    They want those willing to part with some to help build the game.
    NanfoodleMrMelGibson

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,081
    Kyleran said:
    Wizardry said:
    I wish i never heard about these outrageous pledge numbers because it turns me right off.
    Now i pretty much have no game to look forward to ..sigh.

    Guess i'll keep playing Gorgon and FFXI until something worth my time and money comes out.

    Do any legit,fair businessmen still reside within mmorpg studios?

    This has been by far the worst era in gaming,little to no improvements but tons of new ways to scam people out of their money.
    I remember just a few years ago devs didn't like the idea o remastering,now they see how easily people throw money around and tons of games are being remastered.Devs don't even have to put much effort into the remaster,just says "Remastered" and people  are buying it.


    BTW >>>>"makes sense".Well if the game/ideas make sense,why not get it funded instead of prying unfair amounts from gamer's?I said it several years ago,if you want me to fund your game,then i want top value shares,a % of all profits.Your not taking my money and running with it.
    Pro tip. It's not your money they are after.

    They want those willing to part with some to help build the game.



    Ya this is not some kind of scam. People backing this game know the time involved and the risk they are taking. No one is forcing anyone to part with their money. 
    KyleranCaseyx
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited June 2017
    Wizardry said:
    I wish i never heard about these outrageous pledge numbers because it turns me right off.
    Now i pretty much have no game to look forward to ..sigh.

    Guess i'll keep playing Gorgon and FFXI until something worth my time and money comes out.

    Do any legit,fair businessmen still reside within mmorpg studios?

    Hold on, are you seriously comparing Pantheon Pledges with the likes of Star Citizen, SotA, and Chronicles of Elyra?
    Have you checked what's in the bloody Pledges before tear the remaining hairs you have left?

    First off Pantheon never had any Kickstarter Money (mainly because they bombed), the majority of the game has been financed by Brad McQuaid and some other third party Private Investors, unlike the majority of the current MMO in production.
    So at least you should appreciate that.

    Secondly, seriously, did you check what's in the $1.000 Pledge or even the $10.000 Pledge?
    I'll tell you...mainly crap (With all due respect).
    Pantheon is not selling Virtual Space Ships, neither is selling Castles, Villages or Kingdoms like other games.
    What they are selling is access to Pre-Alpha, Alpha and Beta (like any other game), but mainly what they are asking for is for a Donation, they are not selling parts on the game.
    Yes $1000 is a lot of money, but Virtual Realms are not tricking anybody to throw their money at them by selling Virtual Shit.

    They are asking for a Donation from people who can afford it, that's all.
    Are you against people making donations now? 
    Maybe you could suggest them another way to finance the game then...we are all ears.


  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    BruceYee
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,968
    svann said:
    svann said:
    Let's see... one, one thousand dollar pledge for a game in early development or one hundred dollar gold level packages for ten games about to be released... decisions, decisions...
    Honestly, Im not about to pledge to Pantheon.
    But Im even less likely to pledge to any of those other games as I would have no interest in playing them so it would be wasted whether the game was a success or not.

    Seriously?  Get serious
    I am serious.  It's how I look at it.  And say the game is a big hit and everything I wanted and more.  Am I gonna kick myself in the rear for not buying in during Kickstarter?  No.  I'm going to buy in after I see it's developed into something I want.  So I missed some titles and pets and skins, I'll enjoy being in the game after it's launched and bugs have been ironed out for many many many years.  I'm in no hurry.  If it's not what I'm interested in I've lost nothing.
    I can respect that you dont think it wise to invest in an unknown.
    But saying you would rather pledge in other games based on the fact that their pledge package is superior is just ludicrous.
    That's pretty much it.  Not investing in an unknown or planning stage game while there are other games I've had a chance to play.  I've actually bought a few games because they had a free weekend or free week and I enjoyed them. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,075
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,075
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    Ah yeah Camelot Unchained, yeah i was looking at this one before, but I am not exactly sure if its worth backing or playing though I can't seem to find many videos, and what I find looks really unpolished compared to "Ashes OF Creation" or "Crow Fall" for that matter, although I am not entirely sure about "Crow Fall anymore" after backing $1000 into the game but we will see how the development goes on these.

    I am not sure what to think about "Camelot Unchained & Pantheon" though?

    You only get Lifetime VIP if you purchase the $10,000 package or the $1000 package?

    https://pantheonmmo.com/join/ 

    As for Albion, I played this game since 2013, in Early Alpha, the most fun I ever had was "PVP" and Full Loot, but between the Alpha Tests between 2013, and 2017 the game has declined a lot and became more "Care-Bear" so to speak, along with many development changes such as "Food" which in my eyes makes no sense to why the developers did what they did and made the changes they did to the game in the first place, and this is talking just game-play wise, not including the amount of fraud, and my banned account from Albion being accused of purchasing currency by them, when I traded items between two different games which I didn't know was wrong at that time.

    And also Albion for being in Development for like 4 years IMO doesn't feel like they have gotten much done at all.

    . Bad Character Models still (Dark Fall has better ones.)
    . Put in food system for feeding merchants As a cheap way to make sure inactive buildings expire.
    . Removed much of the housing from the original Alpha Tests.
    . Removed Resource Transmutes the ability to change higher tier resources to lower tiers.
    . Removed Zerging, and display Zergs on the maps? (Like really?)
    . Has a gold to silver exchange that can be used for "Fraud"
    . Customer Service that doesn't review things you send them.
    . The ability to buy and sell Albion keys illegally with stolen information rather than applying the directly to ones account that its purchased from.

    Personally I loved the Original Alpha / Game, but watching this game in development for 4 years playing it on and off I wonder what they did with 4 years of time they should have been making a great game but yet it turned out worse than "Dark Fall" in the end.

    Just doesn't look to me like the dev team of Albion really did anything within 4 years, but I am now looking forward to "Ashes OF Creation" and "Crow Fall" Possibly looking to pick up Pantheon or some other game, not sure yet
    BruceYee
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,075
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    Ah yeah Camelot Unchained, yeah i was looking at this one before, but I am not exactly sure if its worth backing or playing though I can't seem to find many videos, and what I find looks really unpolished compared to "Ashes OF Creation" or "Crow Fall" for that matter, although I am not entirely sure about "Crow Fall anymore" after backing $1000 into the game but we will see how the development goes on these.

    I am not sure what to think about "Camelot Unchained & Pantheon" though?

    You only get Lifetime VIP if you purchase the $10,000 package or the $1000 package?

    https://pantheonmmo.com/join/ 

    As for Albion, I played this game since 2013, in Early Alpha, the most fun I ever had was "PVP" and Full Loot, but between the Alpha Tests between 2013, and 2017 the game has declined a lot and became more "Care-Bear" so to speak, along with many development changes such as "Food" which in my eyes makes no sense to why the developers did what they did and made the changes they did to the game in the first place, and this is talking just game-play wise, not including the amount of fraud, and my banned account from Albion being accused of purchasing currency by them, when I traded items between two different games which I didn't know was wrong at that time.

    And also Albion for being in Development for like 4 years IMO doesn't feel like they have gotten much done at all.

    . Bad Character Models still (Dark Fall has better ones.)
    . Put in food system for feeding merchants As a cheap way to make sure inactive buildings expire.
    . Removed much of the housing from the original Alpha Tests.
    . Removed Resource Transmutes the ability to change higher tier resources to lower tiers.
    . Removed Zerging, and display Zergs on the maps? (Like really?)
    . Has a gold to silver exchange that can be used for "Fraud"
    . Customer Service that doesn't review things you send them.
    . The ability to buy and sell Albion keys illegally with stolen information rather than applying the directly to ones account that its purchased from.

    Personally I loved the Original Alpha / Game, but watching this game in development for 4 years playing it on and off I wonder what they did with 4 years of time they should have been making a great game but yet it turned out worse than "Dark Fall" in the end.

    Just doesn't look to me like the dev team of Albion really did anything within 4 years, but I am now looking forward to "Ashes OF Creation" and "Crow Fall" Possibly looking to pick up Pantheon or some other game, not sure yet
    I agree with most of what you said but it is actually releasing next month which is rare for an MMO these days even if it isn't the greatest. The care bear part is needed though to cater to casual players otherwise you end up with a very niche hardcore pvp playerbase game that is destined to fail, The Exiled is a good example of that. I'm confident Albion will make the appropriate changes to keep the $ flowing in which means they can't dish out too much junk otherwise people will leave.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027

    svann said:

    Well everyone else is doing it.  Whats wrong with you?
    /s



    Most gamers are sheep, that's one thing we know for sure.

    I've been scammed by an early access game before. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

    This is playing out almost exactly the same way. There must be a formula these indie devs pass around to each other. Pledges are just testing grounds to determine how easily fans can be manipulated.

    New monetization hooks incoming...


  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,075
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
    Isn't he the #1 guy on this forum against anti-cheat programs and he got caught cheating? Dats sum trippy stuff right there.

    MrMelGibson
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    BruceYee said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
    Isn't he the #1 guy on this forum against anti-cheat programs and he got caught cheating? Dats sum trippy stuff right there.

    Yes, he is always on a crusade about anti-cheat software.  Seems exactly like something a cheater/hacker would do.
  • IshkalIshkal Member UncommonPosts: 304
    They use to beg u to beta test games : /
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Ishkal said:
    They use to beg u to beta test games : /
    And now they know people will gladly pay for it.  Can't say I blame them.
    Octagon7711
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    edited June 2017
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
    Actually the developer who responded here never proved anything of me cheating, or hacking in the Albion Online, the only proof they had which was really nothing was me talking to a person and accepting a trade in the game (Which was not cheating.) What got me banned from the game which I still say shouldn't have at least not for life is "Trading" across two different games which was a violation of the game rules, but I did not know this was illegal or I never would have trade across two different games. Given my account had (Zero Infractions) in 4 years, they should not have perm-banned it for a minor violation during testing like this. There are other players in this game who are more toxic to others even in chat which is far worse than accepting a trade in game.

    However the developer, and Albion team insists that I paid Real Money for some in game currency, but they can't prove this, although I can prove more than what that developer can.

    Also its not that I can't play Albion, I can get as many prepaid debit cards as I want to change my IP Address I got a million of them and make a new account, its that I am not going to bother with such a company that choose to backstab a 3-4 year backer On the first offense of anything done wrong in 4 years No previous infractions.

    But still my point is that "Albion" as a sand-box game could have been something more than what it is right now although, comparing that to pantheon, I bet that even Pantheon Online, is a better game than Albion will be.

    BruceYee said:

    Isn't he the #1 guy on this forum against anti-cheat programs and he got caught cheating? Dats sum trippy stuff right there.

    To be clear I hate "Hackers" or rather "Cheaters" when I talk about cheating, I am not talking about trading or buying gold, but people who intentionally use 3rd party programs hacks, or exploits to cheat in a game. I am not against "Anti Cheats" I am however against "Xing Code" and "Game Guard" because both these are installed without asking permission, and don't uninstall with the game once its removed from your computer.

    With this said in short, I am fine with Reputable Anti-Cheats like Battleye and Easy Anti Cheat, both of these ask consent, and customer service will provide you with instructions on how to uninstall /remove them if you no longer want it on your computer, obviously if you play a game that requires it, then it will ask you to install it again. This doesn't include the "XingCode" that damaged my "Android device", completely ruined it and modified files without consent.

    As far as Denuvo, I think its clearly obvious why I don't buy games with it.

    . Can slow down certain games
    . Takes up more resources
    . They got their own database compromised
    . They used illegally licensed software until they came to some sort of settlement from what I read.

    For those who think I still cheat online games feel free to take a look here.

    http://imgur.com/a/7DVJM

    . Proof my Gold Purchases came from "Sandbox Interactive" not 3rd parties at least not for real money.

    . Proof I had an account since 2013 with "Sandbox Interactive".

    . Proof that I have both "Battleye" and "Easy Anti Cheat" installed on my computer (so I am not against anti-cheats that are reputable.

    . Proof I have not been "VAC Banned" from any of the 200+ games I have on steam since 2005.

    If this doesn't show enough that I don't cheat online games then that is your choice of what you choose to believe.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    There is one thing I am strictly against though and that is lies, and its not so much just the fact of receive a actual ban from a game for the first time in over 17 years I think, its the principle that I had an account in  good standing for 4 years put in nearly $200, and then got an account ban, and it really does piss me off that developers steep as low as banning a user and accusing them of buying gold when they can't be 100% sure because obviously they have no logs of me talking about buying gold in game or anything.

    And also speaking about lies, its not because I am a cheater I hate the two biggest anti-cheats used in Korean games, its because they violate privacy of people, and not everyone agrees with that, I do however understand and know that both "Game Guard & Xing Code are easy to bypass and cheat anyways because I have seen lots of people from seeing online forum posts that do.

    Edit: and speaking about such Anti-Cheats, I doubt "Pantheon", Ashes OF Creation, Crow Fall, will use any type of Anti- Cheats like "Game Guard" or Rootkits that are malicious, I could be wrong, but I expect them to go with something more reputable, or something made by their own company which is cool by me.



    DistopiaBeezerbeez
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,019
    BruceYee said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    BruceYee said:
    Renoaku said:
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    Should have pledged to Ashes OF Creation instead $500 for a Lifetime Subscription.
    Or CU's Lifetime Sub for $275 since we're in the mood to recommend games that may or may not ever be released...
    Ah im pretty sure "Ashes OF Creation" will likely be released unless that was a total big scam which I doubt it shows more promise than the first pledge Albion I backed in 2013 and it took them like 4 years and they came out with really nothing new...

    But what game is CU for $275 I might want to take a look at that?
    CU = Camelot Unchained.

    Albion max pledge was/is $100 and is launching next month + has had playable beta for many years. If you haven't tried Albion recently you might want to before going off impressions from 3 years ago like I did some time ago because it has improved greatly.
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
    Isn't he the #1 guy on this forum against anti-cheat programs and he got caught cheating? Dats sum trippy stuff right there.

    Yes, he is always on a crusade about anti-cheat software.  Seems exactly like something a cheater/hacker would do.
    Also in spite of his laundry list of complaints about the game it seems there's nothing he would like more than be permitted to rejoin and play it again.
    MrMelGibsonDistopia

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,075
    Renoaku said:
    He can't give Albion a try.  Because he got caught cheating in the beta and got banned.  Before he writes another wall of text of mental gymnastics.  The developer has called him out on it on this very forum.
    Actually the developer who responded here never proved anything of me cheating, or hacking in the Albion Online, the only proof they had which was really nothing was me talking to a person and accepting a trade in the game (Which was not cheating.) What got me banned from the game which I still say shouldn't have at least not for life is "Trading" across two different games which was a violation of the game rules, but I did not know this was illegal or I never would have trade across two different games. Given my account had (Zero Infractions) in 4 years, they should not have perm-banned it for a minor violation during testing like this. There are other players in this game who are more toxic to others even in chat which is far worse than accepting a trade in game.

    However the developer, and Albion team insists that I paid Real Money for some in game currency, but they can't prove this, although I can prove more than what that developer can.

    Also its not that I can't play Albion, I can get as many prepaid debit cards as I want to change my IP Address I got a million of them and make a new account, its that I am not going to bother with such a company that choose to backstab a 3-4 year backer On the first offense of anything done wrong in 4 years No previous infractions.

    But still my point is that "Albion" as a sand-box game could have been something more than what it is right now although, comparing that to pantheon, I bet that even Pantheon Online, is a better game than Albion will be.

    BruceYee said:

    Isn't he the #1 guy on this forum against anti-cheat programs and he got caught cheating? Dats sum trippy stuff right there.

    To be clear I hate "Hackers" or rather "Cheaters" when I talk about cheating, I am not talking about trading or buying gold, but people who intentionally use 3rd party programs hacks, or exploits to cheat in a game. I am not against "Anti Cheats" I am however against "Xing Code" and "Game Guard" because both these are installed without asking permission, and don't uninstall with the game once its removed from your computer.

    With this said in short, I am fine with Reputable Anti-Cheats like Battleye and Easy Anti Cheat, both of these ask consent, and customer service will provide you with instructions on how to uninstall /remove them if you no longer want it on your computer, obviously if you play a game that requires it, then it will ask you to install it again. This doesn't include the "XingCode" that damaged my "Android device", completely ruined it and modified files without consent.

    As far as Denuvo, I think its clearly obvious why I don't buy games with it.

    . Can slow down certain games
    . Takes up more resources
    . They got their own database compromised
    . They used illegally licensed software until they came to some sort of settlement from what I read.

    For those who think I still cheat online games feel free to take a look here.

    http://imgur.com/a/7DVJM

    . Proof my Gold Purchases came from "Sandbox Interactive" not 3rd parties at least not for real money.

    . Proof I had an account since 2013 with "Sandbox Interactive".

    . Proof that I have both "Battleye" and "Easy Anti Cheat" installed on my computer (so I am not against anti-cheats that are reputable.

    . Proof I have not been "VAC Banned" from any of the 200+ games I have on steam since 2005.

    If this doesn't show enough that I don't cheat online games then that is your choice of what you choose to believe.
    --------------------------------------------------------
    There is one thing I am strictly against though and that is lies, and its not so much just the fact of receive a actual ban from a game for the first time in over 17 years I think, its the principle that I had an account in  good standing for 4 years put in nearly $200, and then got an account ban, and it really does piss me off that developers steep as low as banning a user and accusing them of buying gold when they can't be 100% sure because obviously they have no logs of me talking about buying gold in game or anything.

    And also speaking about lies, its not because I am a cheater I hate the two biggest anti-cheats used in Korean games, its because they violate privacy of people, and not everyone agrees with that, I do however understand and know that both "Game Guard & Xing Code are easy to bypass and cheat anyways because I have seen lots of people from seeing online forum posts that do.

    Edit: and speaking about such Anti-Cheats, I doubt "Pantheon", Ashes OF Creation, Crow Fall, will use any type of Anti- Cheats like "Game Guard" or Rootkits that are malicious, I could be wrong, but I expect them to go with something more reputable, or something made by their own company which is cool by me.



    Game companies don't even really need a reason to ban. I get it though about the shady extra programs cause I was re-downloading LOTRO for the X time a while ago and one of the other programs it required me to dl gave me a virus. Also today for some reason while re-downloading Battlerite a privacy policy(not T&C) agreement popped up that basically said they can re-sell my non-personal info, gave a huge list of info they were gonna take from my system and I had to agree in order to play which is not cool considering I bought the game a long time ago.
  • OrthelianOrthelian Member UncommonPosts: 1,032
    edited June 2017
    I don't know if this was pointed out in these 7 pages, but the term used on the $1k pledge isn't "most popular" but "top seller", which doesn't have to mean it has more backers. Might as well be that however many $1k backers there are have made that tier bring in more funding than any other single tier.

    Know what I mean? For example, if there are 5 backers at the $1,000 tier, then none of the other tiers have single-handedly reached more than $5,000.

    Favorites: EQEVETOR | Playing: No MMOs since 2014. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CUPantheon
  • MrkuikenMrkuiken Member UncommonPosts: 33
    ragz45 said:
    I was ready to drop $100 after the stream today, thinking that it was a pretty decent pledge.  Then I look at the pledge page, and it's one of the lowest packages there is.  Packages range from 50, 100, 150, 250, 300, 500, 1k+.  This isn't really unusual among kickstarters, but what got me was what was offered at the different tiers, and then on top of that, what the most popular tier was.  $1,000 being the most popular pledge tier.

    For 1 grand or more, you don't even get a lifetime sub, you get 6 months.  Not only can I not help but wonder who's got a grand to drop on a game that's still in alpha, but I'm astounded by the fact that this is the most popular pledge tier.  Maybe I'm just old, but I can remember when you bought a game for $50-60  and then had a $15 sub on top of that, and that was all.  Now we're expected to drop a grand on a game that's still in development, in the hopes that we like the end product?

    I mean, assuming $15 a month for a sub, and a $60 box price.  It would take me 5 years to pay a grand in box+ sub fees.  And people are dropping a grand left and right on this game?  I really don't understand what gamer culture has come to if this is the case.  The microtransaction shops that infest games are bad enough (can remember when games supported themselves on subs alone), but this is just crazy.

    As much as I really enjoyed the stream, and really admire what Visionary Realms is doing, I would have to be insane to drop a grand on the game instead of putting that money in my child's college fund, or my own retirement fund.  I understand that VR is trying to make the game without having to cow down to suits telling them what to do, and that's why they are seeking crowdfunding, but at this point it just feels like rape.  Maybe if we got to see some dividend returns after the game is released and making money, making the pledges more of an investment in something you believe in.  But as it is now, it just feels like Brad and team are just going to be laughing all the way to the bank once the game is released.  

    And, yes I know, "If i don't like it, don't pledge".  But that's the real rub, I do like it, and I wanted to pledge something.  But at this point it feels like if i'm not pledging a grand, I may as well just not pledge at all.
    To be fair, Pantheon changed there pledges overtime since Kickstarter (last 2 years).
    And took out the most popular pledges when the limit (Like alpha invites, Lifetime subs) have reached. 
    At the begin you could had got way more Pledges started with 20, 25, 35, 45, 55, 60, 75, 85, 100 bucks
    And could get Alpha access with the 45 bucks pledge and a Lifetime Sub with 250 bucks pledge.
    Here is a overview of the old pledges. And yes I know Kickstarter has failed but they honored every pledge after kickstarter true there website. 



    Octagon7711jpedrote52
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