Now Ashes is NOT using MLM exactly as far as I can tell, but what it IS focused on is paying people real money to spread the word and recruit other people to spend money on the game. They have sophisitcated tools built to track who you referr, where you referred them from, how many people have used that referral link, how frequently they "convert" to actual members, how much they spend, what your payouts (real cash) have been...
This isn't your typical "Recruit a friend and you both get a red parrot pet" type thing. This is a very thought out marketing campaign that pays you real cash to get other people to spend real cash on the game.
Yeah, that's literally MLM.
Anyone who supports this "game" deserves exactly what's coming.
Actually, no that's not. MLM is MULTI-LEVEL Marketing. Multi! Meaning Multiple. Meaning Multiple Levels. It's literally not "literally MLM"
This is affiliate marketing and it's done by nearly every single, successful, online business who sells any sort of product. You're able to have a single level of referrals ONLY. That means that you are NOT able to refer people and also capitalize on the referrals of those people, and the people under them, etc.
That is unless you know something I don't. However, based on their referral page, that's what I took away from their referral information.
They've disguised it cleverly, I'll give them that. The devil is in the details. In this case the residual rewards.
I already know the response to this because I've heard the same from actual pyramid schemers, yes, no one has to continue to pay into it and can stop at any time.
You get 15% of what a referral spends.
The person you referred gets some referrals, which allow them to play for free! Yay! . . . By spending their referred money on a sub . . . which trickles up to you, which is exactly what it is. MLM. It's hidden via "subscription to game / cash shop items" (should there be any) rather than direct via cash transaction. The incentive to recruit is high and the barrier to maintain a sub is low.
It still ends up shaped like a pyramid.
A real affiliate program like Amazon is just you marketing for Amazon and getting a cut. If one of the people who shopped through your site also decides to become an affiliate, nothing trickles up to you, goes directly to them.
You guys can all look for ways to deceive yourselves, but that's all you'll be doing.
Now Ashes is NOT using MLM exactly as far as I can tell, but what it IS focused on is paying people real money to spread the word and recruit other people to spend money on the game. They have sophisitcated tools built to track who you referr, where you referred them from, how many people have used that referral link, how frequently they "convert" to actual members, how much they spend, what your payouts (real cash) have been...
This isn't your typical "Recruit a friend and you both get a red parrot pet" type thing. This is a very thought out marketing campaign that pays you real cash to get other people to spend real cash on the game.
Yeah, that's literally MLM.
Anyone who supports this "game" deserves exactly what's coming.
Actually, no that's not. MLM is MULTI-LEVEL Marketing. Multi! Meaning Multiple. Meaning Multiple Levels. It's literally not "literally MLM"
This is affiliate marketing and it's done by nearly every single, successful, online business who sells any sort of product. You're able to have a single level of referrals ONLY. That means that you are NOT able to refer people and also capitalize on the referrals of those people, and the people under them, etc.
That is unless you know something I don't. However, based on their referral page, that's what I took away from their referral information.
They've disguised it cleverly, I'll give them that. The devil is in the details. In this case the residual rewards.
I already know the response to this because I've heard the same from actual pyramid schemers, yes, no one has to continue to pay into it and can stop at any time.
You get 15% of what a referral spends.
The person you referred gets some referrals, which allow them to play for free! Yay! . . . By spending their referred money on a sub . . . which trickles up to you, which is exactly what it is. MLM. It's hidden via "subscription to game / cash shop items" (should there be any) rather than direct via cash transaction. The incentive to recruit is high and the barrier to maintain a sub is low.
It still ends up shaped like a pyramid.
A real affiliate program like Amazon is just you marketing for Amazon and getting a cut. If one of the people who shopped through your site also decides to become an affiliate, nothing trickles up to you, goes directly to them.
You guys can all look for ways to deceive yourselves, but that's all you'll be doing.
No it's not!!! You have one level of referrals, regardless of how much money they make for you. It's flat!! Like the Canadian Prairies.
I think you have a general misunderstanding of how this referral program works. You refer someone to the program. If they purchase something, at any time during the life of their account, you get a cut of that. You get ZERO money from the people THEY refer.
Also, you do realize that when I refer someone to Amazon, I get commissions on EVERYTHING they purchase for the next 24 hours, right?
As far as recurring commissions, there are 6000 merchants through clickbank who actually use recurring commissions. Go search for yourself!
Here's a serious question. Let's say I refer a NEW customer to your subscription service. Would you prefer to be paid $5 for that referral? Or $1.50 for per month indefinitely? Cuz you seem to think that getting paid $5 isn't MLM, but getting paid $1.50 is. In the end, they're both the same, but later is more honest, though. If they stay a month, you get a month of commission, they win. If they stay a year, you win.
Again, I think you have a general misunderstand of what an MLM is. If I'm wrong, please educate me. Show me some sort of resource. Just check the wiki article on it "from direct sales to customers and from commission based on the sales of recruited team members, also known as down line distributors."
You are ONLY making money on direct sales to customers here. You only get money from people YOU refer, not from people your friends refer.
You get 15% of a referral's spending. If this person never refers anyone ever, then it's flat.
But if this person wants to play for free, they need to refer 10 people @ $1.50 per person.
They use that $15 to pay their subscription - meaning they spent money. So you get 15% of that. $2.25.
You got $2.25 from your referral's referrals. This is more than one level and it can continue down the line for everyone who tries to refer 10 people so they can play for free.
As for Amazon, you're not making the point you think you're making because it doesn't function like AOC at all. Which is my point. Amazon = affiliate marketing. AOC = MLM pyramid scheme.
If you still don't get it from what I wrote here, then that's pretty much it. I can't explain further or in simpler terms.
You get 15% of a referral's spending. If this person never refers anyone ever, then it's flat.
But if this person wants to play for free, they need to refer 10 people @ $1.50 per person.
They use that $15 to pay their subscription - meaning they spent money. So you get 15% of that. $2.25.
You got $2.25 from your referral's referrals. This is more than one level and it can continue down the line for everyone who tries to refer 10 people so they can play for free.
Yeah, but not. You got 15% of the $15 that THEY used from THEIR bank account to pay for the game. You made $0 from THEIR referrals.
Here's the reasoning, if I refer JOE and TODD and each of them refer 10 people, then I get 15% of whatever THEY spend. So JOE and TODD subscribe for 1 month. I make $4.50. Now!!! TODD decides he is NOT going to play anymore. Guess what? Next month I get paid $2.25 only. HOWEVER, as long as the people TODD referred still pay, he makes $15. Again, I get ZERO dollars of TODD's money.
You're simply making an obscure relationship between me getting paid for MY referrals in order to try to support your agenda, but you're wrong.
ALSO, if what you're saying is true, then I would see MORE money from each of my referrals depending on the number of people they refer, but I don't I only ever see money from what MY referral spends. So he could make $20,000 per month, but if he's only subscribing to the game and spends nothing else, I get $2.25. That's not MLM, good sir.
I hope that I helped you understand the difference between affiliates and MLM today. I love teaching!
I'm not forming an obscure relationship, it's right there. It's you being myopic.
I'm sure you're right though, it's not as if the person making this game made a bunch of money running MLM schemes in the past - and even if he did, he'd totally never do that again. You're too smart, not like those other suckers.
I like the concept and it does look pretty great so far, but until the KS page is live and we can see what is offered I'll be withholding my judgement on the game. I do truly hope the game will be everything they promise.
Kind of think you won't know if the game is everything they promise until it launches. All the Kickstarter will tell you is what they promise.
But the "Refund" guarantee that Steven promised is a good thing.
The Kickstarter will also show you the game. They'll be live streaming the game Mon/Weds/Fri for the duration of the kickstarter. So anyone curious can see the current state of pre-alpha to at least get an idea.
So the livestream is going to show thousands of people interacting and playing all the various character types and completing a cross section of content? Sweet. Here I thought it would just be a dev or two walking through a handpicked contained environment.
Youre right, if they show a fully functional released game I just might pledge!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Hello. I just popped in to clarify our referral program for you. You only receive 15% on what a person spends. If your referral plays the game for free, then you would get 15% of 0.
Hope that clears it up for you!
We tried to explain it clearly on our site, it seems @CrazKanuk actually read it
Happy to be with you fine ladies and gentlemen on MMORPG.com, hope to participate in healthy discussions about our favorite genre.
It all sounds great and at first, and you think well if they offer a refund, I can't lose. Well Star Citizen used to have a refund promise too until it suddenly vanished right before the deadline. So many things to be cynical about when it comes to crowdfunding in this genre, but I hope this turns out well because it sounds like a game I'd love to play if it delivers. I can't say I'll back it this early, but I'll certainly be following the progress.
Nowadays if you love MMO's you have to gamble. Basically you have to through some money at a few games that look interesting to find the one or two that actually perform as well as you expected. To me, this is one of those that looks good enough to gamble on. EQN was a loss but I expect to find a good one in the few I have spent $$ on. Just choose carefully and do not fund them all and you are bound to find a winner.
Comments
They've disguised it cleverly, I'll give them that. The devil is in the details. In this case the residual rewards.
I already know the response to this because I've heard the same from actual pyramid schemers, yes, no one has to continue to pay into it and can stop at any time.
You get 15% of what a referral spends.
The person you referred gets some referrals, which allow them to play for free! Yay! . . . By spending their referred money on a sub . . . which trickles up to you, which is exactly what it is. MLM. It's hidden via "subscription to game / cash shop items" (should there be any) rather than direct via cash transaction. The incentive to recruit is high and the barrier to maintain a sub is low.
It still ends up shaped like a pyramid.
A real affiliate program like Amazon is just you marketing for Amazon and getting a cut. If one of the people who shopped through your site also decides to become an affiliate, nothing trickles up to you, goes directly to them.
You guys can all look for ways to deceive yourselves, but that's all you'll be doing.
No it's not!!! You have one level of referrals, regardless of how much money they make for you. It's flat!! Like the Canadian Prairies.
I think you have a general misunderstanding of how this referral program works. You refer someone to the program. If they purchase something, at any time during the life of their account, you get a cut of that. You get ZERO money from the people THEY refer.
Also, you do realize that when I refer someone to Amazon, I get commissions on EVERYTHING they purchase for the next 24 hours, right?
As far as recurring commissions, there are 6000 merchants through clickbank who actually use recurring commissions. Go search for yourself!
Here's a serious question. Let's say I refer a NEW customer to your subscription service. Would you prefer to be paid $5 for that referral? Or $1.50 for per month indefinitely? Cuz you seem to think that getting paid $5 isn't MLM, but getting paid $1.50 is. In the end, they're both the same, but later is more honest, though. If they stay a month, you get a month of commission, they win. If they stay a year, you win.
Again, I think you have a general misunderstand of what an MLM is. If I'm wrong, please educate me. Show me some sort of resource. Just check the wiki article on it
"from direct sales to customers and from commission based on the sales of recruited team members, also known as down line distributors."
You are ONLY making money on direct sales to customers here. You only get money from people YOU refer, not from people your friends refer.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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You get 15% of a referral's spending. If this person never refers anyone ever, then it's flat.
But if this person wants to play for free, they need to refer 10 people @ $1.50 per person.
They use that $15 to pay their subscription - meaning they spent money. So you get 15% of that. $2.25.
You got $2.25 from your referral's referrals. This is more than one level and it can continue down the line for everyone who tries to refer 10 people so they can play for free.
As for Amazon, you're not making the point you think you're making because it doesn't function like AOC at all. Which is my point. Amazon = affiliate marketing. AOC = MLM pyramid scheme.
If you still don't get it from what I wrote here, then that's pretty much it. I can't explain further or in simpler terms.
Yeah, but not. You got 15% of the $15 that THEY used from THEIR bank account to pay for the game. You made $0 from THEIR referrals.
Here's the reasoning, if I refer JOE and TODD and each of them refer 10 people, then I get 15% of whatever THEY spend. So JOE and TODD subscribe for 1 month. I make $4.50. Now!!! TODD decides he is NOT going to play anymore. Guess what? Next month I get paid $2.25 only. HOWEVER, as long as the people TODD referred still pay, he makes $15. Again, I get ZERO dollars of TODD's money.
You're simply making an obscure relationship between me getting paid for MY referrals in order to try to support your agenda, but you're wrong.
ALSO, if what you're saying is true, then I would see MORE money from each of my referrals depending on the number of people they refer, but I don't I only ever see money from what MY referral spends. So he could make $20,000 per month, but if he's only subscribing to the game and spends nothing else, I get $2.25. That's not MLM, good sir.
I hope that I helped you understand the difference between affiliates and MLM today. I love teaching!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I'm sure you're right though, it's not as if the person making this game made a bunch of money running MLM schemes in the past - and even if he did, he'd totally never do that again. You're too smart, not like those other suckers.
So the livestream is going to show thousands of people interacting and playing all the various character types and completing a cross section of content? Sweet. Here I thought it would just be a dev or two walking through a handpicked contained environment.
Youre right, if they show a fully functional released game I just might pledge!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Hello. I just popped in to clarify our referral program for you. You only receive 15% on what a person spends. If your referral plays the game for free, then you would get 15% of 0.
Hope that clears it up for you!
We tried to explain it clearly on our site, it seems @CrazKanuk actually read it
Founder/Creative Director @ Intrepid Studios
Building upcoming MMORPG Ashes of Creation
Discord
This is one of my picks...
Nanulak