Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Should boxxing be disallowed?

124

Comments

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    edited May 2017

    Boxxing is one of those dealbreakers for me.  I know they can't eliminate it, but if they make no efforts or rules or anything to combat it, I won't play the game.

    Edit: For the reason Dullahan listed above.  In an MMO without instances where group content is limited, and "slots" in dungeons and such are a limited resource, boxing is 100% bad.

    If it were any normal run of the mill everything is instanced game, I could care less if people box because they're not taking opportunity away from non boxing players.

    Anything that would give an advantage to a player who has more money that a player with less money is by definition P2W.

    svannGyva02

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    It's not worth the effort to try to fight multi-boxers.  Let those people have their fun the way they want.  They are paying for it after all.

    However, input-multiplexing .... that's maybe where they should draw the line.  One person shouldn't be able to send the same command to multiple game sessions with the press of a single button.

    But one person playing multiple accounts at the same time?  Hey, if they can manage all that, whatever.


    You're being pedantic, they're effectively the same thing.  It is a literal impossibility for someone to play say 4 characters at the same time without input multiplexing.  Having a healer let's say follow you around that you can turn around and use to heal here and there is technically multiboxing but not in the spirit of this conversation and not what most people were doing. Having a second account that you have a druid or something you could log in to teleport people around is technically multiboxing, but they're not actually playing the character in a group in a dungeon, etc.

    The vast majority of people who "boxed" used input replicators and automation scripts to the point the extra accounts essentially played themselves.  Which is why you would see 1 physical person taking up an entire camp in a dungeon playing an entire group of characters.

    Gdemami

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Dullahan said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not sure what you're referring to.

    At 50:20 in.

    Just curious as to why they are bothering to sit, if they can just meditate standing up.
    To my knowledge, meditation still requires the player to sit. Meditation referring to activating regeneration abilities. You do regenerate some things standing, but mana I believe requires sitting/meditation for the regen to kick in.

    And yes, just before that spot at 49:46 Joppa did have to sit to memorize an ability.
    What do you think they're doing at that spot then?  Not challenging you - just curious.  It looks like they're channeling something with those blue rays coming from their body.
    Oh wow, I didn't even notice that when I looked at it just now. Perhaps meditation can now be activated while standing. That is actually something we discussed on official forums after the last stream in December, but I hadn't heard it brought up. It does indeed look like they're meditating standing up.

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4678/meditation


  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,885
    How do you discourage it? Only allow one account per IP? Arent you jsut hurting your sales that way? Also I really dont foresee this game getting millions of players...I'd guesstimate 100k is about as high as it will get....its an old school game aimed at an old school crowd.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    How do you discourage it? Only allow one account per IP? Arent you jsut hurting your sales that way? Also I really dont foresee this game getting millions of players...I'd guesstimate 100k is about as high as it will get....its an old school game aimed at an old school crowd.
    What you aren't considering is the effect of not allowing it. When you can't simply create your own group, that makes each individual player more important. That means more groups and increased player interaction. When players are more important, that makes player reputation more valuable. When player reputation is valuable, that creates more accountability, which in turn leads to higher quality of interactions and better atmosphere in general.

    More groups, more interaction, greater opportunity to meet and form relationships with players and the community at large. These are the things that make a virtual world work and keep people logging in every day.
    HrimnirGdemamiGyva02


  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Hrimnir said:
    It's not worth the effort to try to fight multi-boxers.  Let those people have their fun the way they want.  They are paying for it after all.

    However, input-multiplexing .... that's maybe where they should draw the line.  One person shouldn't be able to send the same command to multiple game sessions with the press of a single button.

    But one person playing multiple accounts at the same time?  Hey, if they can manage all that, whatever.


    You're being pedantic, they're effectively the same thing.  It is a literal impossibility for someone to play say 4 characters at the same time without input multiplexing.  Having a healer let's say follow you around that you can turn around and use to heal here and there is technically multiboxing but not in the spirit of this conversation and not what most people were doing. Having a second account that you have a druid or something you could log in to teleport people around is technically multiboxing, but they're not actually playing the character in a group in a dungeon, etc.

    The vast majority of people who "boxed" used input replicators and automation scripts to the point the extra accounts essentially played themselves.  Which is why you would see 1 physical person taking up an entire camp in a dungeon playing an entire group of characters.

    No, I'm not.  I played 3 EVE Online accounts at once without input multi-plexing.  I used an advanced technology known as ALT-TAB.  You should try it, it's amazing!

    Perhaps the majority do use input replicators, but technically input-multiplexing and multi-boxing are not the same thing.

    Eve is a COMPLETELY different ballgame than a traditional PVE fantasy MMO.  EVE has auto targeting and auto firing mechanics and auto mining and auto this and auto that.  It's not even apples and oranges, its apples and fountain pens.
    Gdemami

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,321
    edited May 2017
    Distopia said:
    Problem with that is what about folks who have friends/family playing on multiple boxes in the same house? They're only hurting themselves by shutting that option down.
    Actually, the problem is at your ISP.

    Since IP range is limited, addresses assigned to home users are pretty much exclusively assigned dynamically and change over time depending on the load.

    IPV6 will likely change that but until then, static IPs are mostly reserved for businesses and governments.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
    Distopia
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,386
    Dullahan said:
    How do you discourage it? Only allow one account per IP? Arent you jsut hurting your sales that way? Also I really dont foresee this game getting millions of players...I'd guesstimate 100k is about as high as it will get....its an old school game aimed at an old school crowd.
    What you aren't considering is the effect of not allowing it. When you can't simply create your own group, that makes each individual player more important. That means more groups and increased player interaction. When players are more important, that makes player reputation more valuable. When player reputation is valuable, that creates more accountability, which in turn leads to higher quality of interactions and better atmosphere in general.

    More groups, more interaction, greater opportunity to meet and form relationships with players and the community at large. These are the things that make a virtual world work and keep people logging in every day.
    Agreed. EQ1 wouldn't have wasted their time and money implementing a ban on multi-boxing on their latest progression servers if it hurt their sales.

    EQ1 is the closest thing to Pantheon on the market ATM. When you have a group oriented game with an emphasis on community, multi-boxing abuse will hurt the health of a server a lot worse than it will ever help. 
    DullahanGdemami
    --------------------------------------------
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Dullahan said:
    How do you discourage it? Only allow one account per IP? Arent you jsut hurting your sales that way? Also I really dont foresee this game getting millions of players...I'd guesstimate 100k is about as high as it will get....its an old school game aimed at an old school crowd.
    What you aren't considering is the effect of not allowing it. When you can't simply create your own group, that makes each individual player more important. That means more groups and increased player interaction. When players are more important, that makes player reputation more valuable. When player reputation is valuable, that creates more accountability, which in turn leads to higher quality of interactions and better atmosphere in general.

    More groups, more interaction, greater opportunity to meet and form relationships with players and the community at large. These are the things that make a virtual world work and keep people logging in every day.
    Agreed. EQ1 wouldn't have wasted their time and money implementing a ban on multi-boxing on their latest progression servers if it hurt their sales.

    EQ1 is the closest thing to Pantheon on the market ATM. When you have a group oriented game with an emphasis on community, multi-boxing abuse will hurt the health of a server a lot worse than it will ever help. 
    Exactly.

    People also seem to forget that multi-boxing when EQ was actually worth playing meant having an entirely separate computer. That was something almost no one was capable of doing in the age of dial up internet and giant pc monitors.

    Early EQ did not even let you alt-tab out of the client, let alone allow you to open another client.


  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,238
    I hate that this bs is allowed in ANY mmo. All it shows is they care more about making extra money from the multiple accounts than they do the game itself. Nothing breaks immersion more than 5 toons stacked on top of each other going around one-shotting everything. Esp when it comes to pvp. Baffles the mind this is allowed.
    GdemamiGyva02
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 3,238




    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Multi-boxing is not P2W. I swear people change the meaning of everything
    to make anything they have an issue with look bad when its them with
    the issue.

    Play the game the way you want, and leave everyone else to play the way they want.
    No one has to "change" their definition of it to disagree with you, p2w simply means something different to different people. I know people like you hate opinions and all, but you should get over that.

    Speaking strictly of subscription mmos, my definition of p2w is if you can use real-life currency to advance in game quicker than those who do not use it, you are in fact "paying to win"....esp when pvp is involved. When dropping your credit card accelerates your progress well beyond the time it would take to do something in game time, "you are paying to win". If you see zero rationale in this definition that is your problem, not mine. I accept you have a differing opinion, don't dismiss mine.

    I am a libertarian, if it does not affect me I say live and let live. However, players with multiple toons stacked up farming crap, virtually one-shotting everything in sight well above solo level in an area I am trying to grind in, DOES affect my gameplay. It also ruins immersion for me; I do not choose to play on an RP server so you can come along and ruin my immersion.

    Not to mention gold farmers will always exploit multi-boxing, it enables them. 

    So you can favor multi-boxing if you want, that is your opinion and you have a right to that. But don't dismiss mine as folly just because it goes against you. Back your opinion up with some rationale and substance or keep it to yourself.

    GdemamiDullahan
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,392
    People started boxing in EQ, because we lacked a population for needed classes. Now, its essential to box in EQ to even play the game.

    I have no problem with soloing, and I do enjoy boxing, at times. Other times, its too much focus, and I can't enjoy the game.

    I believe a lot of you are remember the 6 boxxers that would warp to the boss, kill it, then warp out. Obviously, that is not boxing. That is cheating.
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,392
    Hrimnir said:
    It's not worth the effort to try to fight multi-boxers.  Let those people have their fun the way they want.  They are paying for it after all.

    However, input-multiplexing .... that's maybe where they should draw the line.  One person shouldn't be able to send the same command to multiple game sessions with the press of a single button.

    But one person playing multiple accounts at the same time?  Hey, if they can manage all that, whatever.

     It is a literal impossibility for someone to play say 4 characters at the same time without input multiplexing.  

    You're wrong. 
  • AdamantineAdamantine Member RarePosts: 4,449

    svann said:

    It seems to me that all the people that are against soloing [...]
    Pantheon allows soloing. There just wont be that much content for it. All good content needs groups. Pretty much like Vanguard, really.



    svann said:
    Should Pantheon copy that idea?
    No.






    Please set a sig so I can read your posting even if somebody "agreed" etc with it. Thanks.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    edited May 2017

    svann said:

    It seems to me that all the people that are against soloing [...]
    Pantheon allows soloing. There just wont be that much content for it.



    from the stream:
    "if you log in and your friends arent on there will always be something you can do solo".

    So there will be content for soloing.  Enough that you will always be able to do it when you cant find a group.  Key word always dispels the rumor that there wont be much solo content.



  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093
    I dont see the problem here. VR said they will not stop boxers as long as they are playing all accounts. This means no macros or 3rd party programs running things. This alone will have very few people boxing. The few that do to have a healer/buffer will drop their second account in a second to have a real person play as this will become demanding trying to keep up with 2 chars. 

    Also this is a game about playing with people and in the end, they will need to play with people to get anywhere real. If some boxer wants to spend their time sitting in the corner of a zone going no where, who does it hurt?
    Catibrie
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Nanfoodle said:
    I dont see the problem here. VR said they will not stop boxers as long as they are playing all accounts. This means no macros or 3rd party programs running things. This alone will have very few people boxing. The few that do to have a healer/buffer will drop their second account in a second to have a real person play as this will become demanding trying to keep up with 2 chars. 

    Also this is a game about playing with people and in the end, they will need to play with people to get anywhere real. If some boxer wants to spend their time sitting in the corner of a zone going no where, who does it hurt?
    Assuming that they're just sitting in the corner of a zone, and actually getting no where? Nobody.

    Chances are though, they'll be in the middle of the zone and getting somewhere, and doing so at the expense of groups of players playing the game the way they should be.


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093
    Dullahan said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    I dont see the problem here. VR said they will not stop boxers as long as they are playing all accounts. This means no macros or 3rd party programs running things. This alone will have very few people boxing. The few that do to have a healer/buffer will drop their second account in a second to have a real person play as this will become demanding trying to keep up with 2 chars. 

    Also this is a game about playing with people and in the end, they will need to play with people to get anywhere real. If some boxer wants to spend their time sitting in the corner of a zone going no where, who does it hurt?
    Assuming that they're just sitting in the corner of a zone, and actually getting no where? Nobody.

    Chances are though, they'll be in the middle of the zone and getting somewhere, and doing so at the expense of groups of players playing the game the way they should be.
    No, they will be going no where of importance. The game will be to demanding, to do anything that matters they will need scripting or macros. So thats a ban. If they go play harder content that they need to make a team with. They will be the 2 worst team mates as they will be so divided they will be the weakest link. So like I said above, first real healer to show up, the team will demand the alt account goes. VR has made the game so that boxers will play a very small part of anything. Your making a way bigger deal of this then it is.  
    Catibrie
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Dullahan said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    I dont see the problem here. VR said they will not stop boxers as long as they are playing all accounts. This means no macros or 3rd party programs running things. This alone will have very few people boxing. The few that do to have a healer/buffer will drop their second account in a second to have a real person play as this will become demanding trying to keep up with 2 chars. 

    Also this is a game about playing with people and in the end, they will need to play with people to get anywhere real. If some boxer wants to spend their time sitting in the corner of a zone going no where, who does it hurt?
    Assuming that they're just sitting in the corner of a zone, and actually getting no where? Nobody.

    Chances are though, they'll be in the middle of the zone and getting somewhere, and doing so at the expense of groups of players playing the game the way they should be.

    So you have a group in the zone taking mobs you feel are yours.  If it was a multiboxer you are upset but four people you are cool with it...
    Jean-Luc_Picard
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • ZionBaneZionBane Member UncommonPosts: 328
    If they have the system to handle boxing, go for it.

    They are not hurting anyone, so, go have fun.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member EpicPosts: 3,141
    DMKano said:
    For a pure sub game boxing is additional revenue. It would be insane for them to disallow multi-boxing.

    As the FAQ states they are trying to make it to where multi boxing is hard to do via in game mechanics. Of course this will not be an issue for hardcore multiboxers but it's a nice gesture.
    Multiboxing isn't the problem though...

    EVE Online use to allow Multiboxing but (Banned IsBoxer) from being able to broadcast keystrokes against multiple clients as well as hardware so assuming you run 7 accounts and they see mining lasers and lockons to the same target at the same time for example they will know your cheating and ban.

    This can also be done with other 3rd party software and KVM Switches / Apps.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093
    edited May 2017
    Renoaku said:
    DMKano said:
    For a pure sub game boxing is additional revenue. It would be insane for them to disallow multi-boxing.

    As the FAQ states they are trying to make it to where multi boxing is hard to do via in game mechanics. Of course this will not be an issue for hardcore multiboxers but it's a nice gesture.
    Multiboxing isn't the problem though...

    EVE Online use to allow Multiboxing but (Banned IsBoxer) from being able to broadcast keystrokes against multiple clients as well as hardware so assuming you run 7 accounts and they see mining lasers and lockons to the same target at the same time for example they will know your cheating and ban.

    This can also be done with other 3rd party software and KVM Switches / Apps.
    This will get you a ban in Pantheon as well. Boxers will need to play every keystroke. You cant even use gaming keyboards and mice to use macros. 
    Distopia
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited May 2017
    waynejr2 said:

    So you have a group in the zone taking mobs you feel are yours.  If it was a multiboxer you are upset but four people you are cool with it...
    Exactly! Four people playing the game cooperatively the way it was meant to be played, versus content taken by someone paying more money to achieve the same. I'm not sure how you could possibly be okay with that.

    Just to note, I do realize Visionary Realms has stated they are focusing on discouraging boxing by making gameplay more demanding. We can already see evidence that they're doing it. Nevertheless, I still feel it necessary to hardline this issue because it's just another form of convenience that has crept in among even our community and become acceptable.
    DistopiaGyva02


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Dullahan said:
    waynejr2 said:

    So you have a group in the zone taking mobs you feel are yours.  If it was a multiboxer you are upset but four people you are cool with it...
    Exactly! Four people playing the game cooperatively the way it was meant to be played, versus content taken by someone paying more money to achieve the same. I'm not sure how you could possibly be okay with that.

    Just to note, I do realize Visionary Realms has stated they are focusing on discouraging boxing by making gameplay more demanding. We can already see evidence that they're doing it. Nevertheless, I still feel it necessary to hardline this issue because it's just another form of convenience that has crept in among even our community and become acceptable.
    Yeah the only time multi-boxing has been a plus in my eyes was in SWG as it wasn't really used as a way to circumvent content/fights. Most people just did it to run DOC's and dancers for downtime based healing and buffs. They were also tucked away for the most part in folks guild cities. 
    Torval

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,093
    Dullahan said:
    waynejr2 said:

    So you have a group in the zone taking mobs you feel are yours.  If it was a multiboxer you are upset but four people you are cool with it...
    Exactly! Four people playing the game cooperatively the way it was meant to be played, versus content taken by someone paying more money to achieve the same. I'm not sure how you could possibly be okay with that.

    Just to note, I do realize Visionary Realms has stated they are focusing on discouraging boxing by making gameplay more demanding. We can already see evidence that they're doing it. Nevertheless, I still feel it necessary to hardline this issue because it's just another form of convenience that has crept in among even our community and become acceptable.
    Same could be said for people who figure out how to solo content in a game thats designed for teaming. Its no different, as long as they are not cheating, exploiting and pressing every keystroke. 
    Torval
Sign In or Register to comment.