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Please have a good percentage of solo content.

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  • TamanousTamanous Member RarePosts: 2,997
    edited May 2017






    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)






    AC was a solo friendly game. Pantheon is based upon EQ design concepts which is entirely different than AC. AC was all about killing things dozens of levels above you en masse. Two entirely different games.

    As other's stated: The issue with Pantheon will be if multi-boxing is allowed. It will dominate content and also be a tool for gold farmers if not limited. There is likely little to no way to stop solo friendly classes from farming everything in sight unless new mechanics are introduced to stop that as well. 

    Players will always find the path of least resistance no matter what the devs attempt to do. The first few months of this game will be no different that any other mmo after launch ... a play ground for the early exploiters. I wish them the best in limiting this in order to preserve their game concept.

    You stay sassy!

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,698
    edited May 2017


    Tamanous said:












    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)










    AC was a solo friendly game. Pantheon is based upon EQ design concepts which is entirely different than AC. AC was all about killing things dozens of levels above you en masse. Two entirely different games.

    As other's stated: The issue with Pantheon will be if multi-boxing is allowed. It will dominate content and also be a tool for gold farmers if not limited. There is likely little to no way to stop solo friendly classes from farming everything in sight unless new mechanics are introduced to stop that as well. 

    Players will always find the path of least resistance no matter what the devs attempt to do. The first few months of this game will be no different that any other mmo after launch ... a play ground for the early exploiters. I wish them the best in limiting this in order to preserve their game concept.




    I would argue AC was a much much harder game than EQ was both in content and in creating a character. ;)
    Not sure you actually played them both based on that response

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    edited May 2017



    Krimzin said:



    @OP Solo Content... It has already been said that Pantheon will be a VERY group focused game.















    Distopia said:
















    svann said:
    I understand what developers are saying  " their will be solo content but they will be lacking"

     










     









    Developers did not say that.


















    Not exactly in those words no,  but they did say there will be solo content. As well as certain classes will handle it better than others. It's right in their FAQ.














    They said there will be solo content.  They did not say "it will be lacking", nor did they say or imply anything remotely similar.  Some people insist on interpreting like that because they want it to be "forced grouping", but the devs didnt say that.  What they said was that there would be solo content but the group content would have better rewards.








    Actually they made the comment in a stream that the majority of content will be based around grouping, meaning solo content is there just not much of it.  21:00 of this video  







    You certainly misinterpreted that.  They said the majority of content is grouping.  Majority just means >50%.  It does not mean it is almost all group content, and it does not mean "solo content will be lacking".  In fact just after that point he said "if you log in and your friends arent on there will always be something you can do solo".  Which is exactly what we are asking for. 
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    All content in Pantheon is group content, unless you can find a way to do it solo.


  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507


    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)

    That is what I did in EQ and VG as well and that is how we will handle it in Pantheon, we are not creating solo content for anyone as it is a group game but we look forward to seeing how our community tests their skills and solo's some of the more friendly content, you won't, however, see anyone soloing dungeons or group content, at some point people will need to make friends, join a guild etc.
    MrMelGibson

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  • BcudaBcuda Member UncommonPosts: 163
    will you do anything once the Chinese have learned to cheat, they will, you cant stop them. but should I stick with it or just give up
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,073

    Kilsin said:





    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)


    That is what I did in EQ and VG as well and that is how we will handle it in Pantheon, we are not creating solo content for anyone as it is a group game but we look forward to seeing how our community tests their skills and solo's some of the more friendly content, you won't, however, see anyone soloing dungeons or group content, at some point people will need to make friends, join a guild etc.


    This is the type of commitment to a vision I love seeing. Play how you want, we wont stop you but just get, this is a team based game. 
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    edited May 2017


    Torval said:





    Nanfoodle said:







    Torval said:









    Nanfoodle said:





    Also you will notice that team were doing this content and doing fine but off in the distance there was a duo doing the same content. My guess they were higher level then the team. So where solo content is not the focus of the game. Teaming does not always mean "Perfect Balanced" team. 





    What would be the point of grouping if you can just overcon the encounters a little and solo/duo it? If a pair can go do the content like that what I predict is you'll see couples that go "solo" content and rarely if ever group up.

    My opinion is that there is a big difference between a full team and one that isn't. A full team doesn't have to be perfectly balance to challenge content, but that is vastly different from 2 people a few levels higher doing the same thing.








    Duo is not soloing. Im just saying if you are worried you cant find a perfect balance team and all you have online is a Shaman and a Wizard, you will be able to find something to do. Instead of killing Black and Yellow cons, go chain some blues and have fun. I find people walk away when they cant get the perfect team. In EQ1 I used to do this all the time. Join anyone and start playing and when a tank showed up invite, then a healer shows up you invite. People will join because its better then standing around. Next thing you know you do have a team and go do harder content. People see the group type game play and panic saying "I hate waiting around trying to find a good group" That mind set makes me laugh. Go play with what you got.



    Agreed that having class flexibility choices will be good. EQ and EQ2 suffer from class bias when forming high end content.

    You referenced a couple people duoing and that's what I thought your reference to balanced groups was about.

    Solo isn't the same as duo but it's not that much different when you're talking about content design and challenge. Typically content that works for duo also mostly works solo and vice versa. The same isn't true for full group content where you need a full party size and a group of 2 can't do it.

    So when you said 2 people were in the background doing content I thought, well what's the point of going through effort of assembling a group when a duo can waltz in and do the same stuff. Hopefully it will be a bit more complex than that.




    I used to LoL at people that insisted on having the "Perfect" group in EQI.


    If I spent too long LFG, because mages were not optimal DPS and my wife's shaman was not the optimal healer, I would just grab four other mages to accompany my wife and I and we would go destroy some content.

    Often passing by the very groups that were refusing to take us because we were less than optimal as we cleared the content.

    Heck, there was raid content in EQ1 that was easier with 5 mages and a shaman than with a traditional 3-4 group raid.

    Ironically enough, mage Epic 2.0 had encounters that were trivial with a full group of mages, but would mess a 3-4 group raid up.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335

    Kilsin said:





    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)


    That is what I did in EQ and VG as well and that is how we will handle it in Pantheon, we are not creating solo content for anyone as it is a group game but we look forward to seeing how our community tests their skills and solo's some of the more friendly content, you won't, however, see anyone soloing dungeons or group content, at some point people will need to make friends, join a guild etc.


    This is exactly what I am looking for.

    There is a huge difference between designing content to be soloed and deliberately blocking content from being soloed.

    Hawkaya399

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    Again, from the stream:

    "if you log in and your friends arent on there will always be something you can do solo".

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,574

    Kilsin said:





    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)


    That is what I did in EQ and VG as well and that is how we will handle it in Pantheon, we are not creating solo content for anyone as it is a group game but we look forward to seeing how our community tests their skills and solo's some of the more friendly content, you won't, however, see anyone soloing dungeons or group content, at some point people will need to make friends, join a guild etc.



    Great, I think it would satisfy many if the content was some what like Vanguard.  It's like you can fight the spiders around the outskirts of town, you can make it up that hill for harvesting crafting material's, you can find some soloable quest here and there..... This would please a lot of people....


    Lots of people seem under the impression, "don't even thing about this game if your not in a group all the time".
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182

    Kilsin said:





    I did solo content in Asheron's Call all the time even thought the content I was doing was not meant for it. I liked the challenge. I was always tweaking my Survivability =)


    That is what I did in EQ and VG as well and that is how we will handle it in Pantheon, we are not creating solo content for anyone as it is a group game but we look forward to seeing how our community tests their skills and solo's some of the more friendly content, you won't, however, see anyone soloing dungeons or group content, at some point people will need to make friends, join a guild etc.


    Your FAQ should be updated to reflect that a little better, as it's wording now could be read by some as there will be content designed for solo play.

    "Yes. While most content will be designed for groups, there will typically also be content that is soloable. Some classes may solo better than other classes."

    Which would be setting those folks up for disappointment when that content hits them like a ton of bricks :)...


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,278
    edited May 2017
    I think solo content already ruined too many MMO's when you can simply solo everything and then group play is the secondary / end-game thing.

    There's already so much of that, idk why more focus on it...
    Hawkaya399
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    edited May 2017


    MaxBacon said:


    I think solo content already ruined too many MMO's when you can simply solo everything and then group play is the secondary / end-game thing.

    There's already so much of that, idk why more focus on it...




    I thought it was one of the greater benefits of SWG outside of it's social dynamics. There was always something to do, be there people around to group with or not. 

    That said, I've always been the type who liked to solo in higher leveled areas than myself, so I look forward to trying to do that in pantheon. I only really like to group for dungeons and pvp. Leveling I prefer to do on my own at my own pace. Most of the time level appropriate content is boring. 
    MrMelGibson

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,364
    edited May 2017
    I have either hinted at or stated that yes i want at least the ability to solo but only a very minimal option and still being less efficient than grouping.
    The problem area is WHAT type of grouping content?I am NOT in for any kind of end game crap,like NONE.
    I simply want a role playing experience,is that too much to ask for in a ...ahem ...role playing game?


    I am not looking for another FFXi,contrary to what some people THINK,i only ever mention ideas because so far and imo they are ideas that are better than anything i have yet seen in the mmorpg industry.That does not mean outright copy those ideas but follow the same guidelines because grouping in FFXi just worked and worked very well,yet the game also had soloing,so yeah covers ALL bases.

    Point being,if you are going to create a real MMO feel and a roll playing game combined,you will NOT achieve it being like ANY other game.

    All of those OTHER games gave us some nice "initial" ideas but i never accept anything as never being able to improve it.It is time to move on and IMPROVE on the best ideas that support a rpg and a MMO.

    I look and cover ALL BASES when i look at each area,example combat or class design or even crafting.I do not accept SIMPLE systems,like kill mob ok your good to go end of story or trigger quest,complete quest,get reward,rinse and repeat.
    Bottom line is that QUALITY game design is a massive undertaking,i want REAL triple A gaming and not what marketing sites has been telling us,i will think for myself,thank you very much.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,364

    Nanfoodle said:



    Mendel said:





    Nanfoodle said:







    Mendel said:









    Nanfoodle said:











    Torval said:













    Nanfoodle said:







    Also you will notice that team were doing this content and doing fine but off in the distance there was a duo doing the same content. My guess they were higher level then the team. So where solo content is not the focus of the game. Teaming does not always mean "Perfect Balanced" team. 







    What would be the point of grouping if you can just overcon the encounters a little and solo/duo it? If a pair can go do the content like that what I predict is you'll see couples that go "solo" content and rarely if ever group up.

    My opinion is that there is a big difference between a full team and one that isn't. A full team doesn't have to be perfectly balance to challenge content, but that is vastly different from 2 people a few levels higher doing the same thing.












    Duo is not soloing. Im just saying if you are worried you cant find a perfect balance team and all you have online is a Shaman and a Wizard, you will be able to find something to do. Instead of killing Black and Yellow cons, go chain some blues and have fun. I find people walk away when they cant get the perfect team. In EQ1 I used to do this all the time. Join anyone and start playing and when a tank showed up invite, then a healer shows up you invite. People will join because its better then standing around. Next thing you know you do have a team and go do harder content. People see the group type game play and panic saying "I hate waiting around trying to find a good group" That mind set makes me laugh. Go play with what you got.










    How long will it be before that 2 character group is run by a single individual (boxing)?  I'm sure there will be individual players trying to work as a boxed group almost from day 1.  How is that social and can we get that player some medical help?  If global chat is considered being social, then we need to re-categorize games like Total Annihilation and Command & Conquer.








    Without macro support (will be something you will get a ban for) Boxing will be a very small thing. At most, like the devs said, you will see maybe one person running 2 accounts and they wont be doing it as well as someone playing one account. Thanks for bringing that up as its really easy to grasp.



    Just because it's easy to grasp doesn't mean that there won't be a good number of people trying to solo, maybe even successfully.  Those boxing (or trying to box) aren't going to have time to be social if you also believe the developer's statement that it will be difficult.  The developers are talking out of both sides of their mouth on many issues; this may be one.  Boxing won't be illegal, banned or prohibited, just 'difficult'.

    I haven't seen a stream from the cleric's perspective, is there one?




     Solo away then I dont get your point. Want to goto a corner of a zone and box, be your own duo. Go ahead. The impact to the game will mean next to nothing. Sure they won't ban it. Why would they? You want to pay two subs to solo a teamed based MMO. Go ahead as no one will care. Boxers that run a teams worth of clients that own an area just won't happen in Pantheon. So again your talking about things that have no meaning. 


    The problem with boxing is not a player playing a couple characters but the fact that it almost always leads to CHEATING,auto scripts and not 1 player playing 2 but maybe 5 characters through single key presses.

    What it also does is allow certain parts of a game to be exploited,farmed and just leads to a whole slew of cheating ideas to even ruining the games marketplace to introducing RMT botting.

    If i just sound confusing,what i am saying is i don't care what anyone does as long as it is 100% LEGIT,the EXACT same game everyone else is playing and NOT some outside scripting "LUA" or ANY kind of add-ons,i despise add-ons 100%.If the community wants something then suggest it to the developer,do not start some scripting site or mega addons via Curse.net etc etc.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,925

    Wizardry said:


    The problem with boxing is not a player playing a couple characters but the fact that it almost always leads to CHEATING,auto scripts and not 1 player playing 2 but maybe 5 characters through single key presses.




    When you're right, you're right.

    And considering the fact that we know that 99.9% of boxers use key-broadcasting software and macros, I find it hard to believe that developers are more naive than we are about it and approve boxing in general while pretending there aren't a whole host of TOS violations for all practical purposes inherent in the practice.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,631

    Iselin said:



    Wizardry said:



    The problem with boxing is not a player playing a couple characters but the fact that it almost always leads to CHEATING,auto scripts and not 1 player playing 2 but maybe 5 characters through single key presses.






    When you're right, you're right.

    And considering the fact that we know that 99.9% of boxers use key-broadcasting software and macros, I find it hard to believe that developers are more naive than we are about it and approve boxing in general while pretending there aren't a whole host of TOS violations for all practical purposes inherent in the practice.


    When you have 99.9% of your hardcore players using hardware and software macros what's the real difference?
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    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,925

    Torval said:



    Iselin said:





    Wizardry said:




    The problem with boxing is not a player playing a couple characters but the fact that it almost always leads to CHEATING,auto scripts and not 1 player playing 2 but maybe 5 characters through single key presses.








    When you're right, you're right.

    And considering the fact that we know that 99.9% of boxers use key-broadcasting software and macros, I find it hard to believe that developers are more naive than we are about it and approve boxing in general while pretending there aren't a whole host of TOS violations for all practical purposes inherent in the practice.




    When you have 99.9% of your hardcore players using hardware and software macros what's the real difference?


    Are they? Seems to me it's one hell of a lot easier to be "hardcore" without macros than to multibox 5 characters without them.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,631
    Yeah, it's easier to do a single character manually. You can do it without addons too. But hardcore players use both. My point being more than boxers use macros. Lots of people use them. It hardly seems fair to single out boxers.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,925

    Torval said:

    Yeah, it's easier to do a single character manually. You can do it without addons too. But hardcore players use both. My point being more than boxers use macros. Lots of people use them. It hardly seems fair to single out boxers.


    It occurs to me that I really have no idea what hardcore means to you since you seem pretty definite that "hardcore players use both." To me hardcore is just the opposite end of the spectrum from casual. I.e. someone who plays a particular game a lot and is competent at it.

    So no, they don't use both although some might (just like some casuals also might, although in their case someone probably needs to set it up for them.)

    Multiboxing several characters however is physically virtually impossible to do without macros and key broadcast software. As a group they are easy to single out simply because the group wouldn't even exists without the bot-like addons.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    edited May 2017


    MaxBacon said:


    I think solo content already ruined too many MMO's when you can simply solo everything and then group play is the secondary / end-game thing.

    There's already so much of that, idk why more focus on it...


    Why?
    I think the quote from the live stream makes the why pretty clear:
    "If you login and your friends arent online you can always find something to do solo"
    Solo content is for the times you cant get a group going.  If people were honest they would see that is not uncommon.  If it wasnt an issue they wouldnt have said it.

    And as to your fear of it being totally soloable - it doesnt have to be like that and they said it wont be like that.  So put your fears aside.
    dcutbi001
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,073

    Torval said:

    Yeah, it's easier to do a single character manually. You can do it without addons too. But hardcore players use both. My point being more than boxers use macros. Lots of people use them. It hardly seems fair to single out boxers.


    People using macros and caught by their systems that sniff that out. By watching key stokes and how they differ. Will get a ban and its one you cant get overturned if your defense is you were using a gaming keyboard. Kilsins words on the official forums. 
    Torval
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,336
    I am all for having some solo content but no this game should not have a good portion of solo content.  They are making a game that is focused on group play over solo play.  That is the point of this game.  They are trying to make a game that doesn't cater to the solo experience.  Sure there should be some things to do when you don't feel like grouping but you shouldn't expect to be able to do much in reality.  Maybe go out gathering, etc....but no questing ect...should be for soloing.
    BeezerbeezDistopia
  • AvanahAvanah Member RarePosts: 1,551
    If you want to solo, try World of Warcraft.
    Pantheon is looking to go back to the roots of EQ, but with better graphics and gameplay.
    And grouping was a major draw as it should be.
    kardiac82

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    One Cooking and One Cleaning!"

    ---------------------------

    "A good man can make you feel sexy,

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