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Bot Maker Bossland Loses Again, Set to Pay Blizzard $8.6M - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

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Comments

  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Good news but it is really that much money into botting or is it just the US habit of putting up an insanely huge sum in fees for copyright infringement?

    I am not saying they don't deserve it, just that it seems unlikely to me that they could earn so much money on Wow bots...
  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
    Loke666 said:
    Good news but it is really that much money into botting or is it just the US habit of putting up an insanely huge sum in fees for copyright infringement?

    I am not saying they don't deserve it, just that it seems unlikely to me that they could earn so much money on Wow bots...
    $200 per unit sold includes the price of the bot, I assume, and punitive damages.


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    exile01 said:
    I find US Law hillarious. The only country where u have to write down first what u cant do before u write what u can do. A old lady put her dog into a microwave to warm him up but get grilled instead? No problem: here are your 70mil. Us Laws are really strange. They like especially to sue foreign establishments.
    If they were honest, then they (Blizzard) wouldn't be able to carry out legal actions against them now would they :p
    If the 'foreign' establishments are open to being sued, then its probably because they are doing something dodgy. O.o
  • alkarionlogalkarionlog Member RarePosts: 2,869
    CrazKanuk said:
    Phry said:

    kitarad said:


    Reizla said:

    ...big deal...

    Bosslansd is a German company (was by now), and to make a non-German/non-EU court ruling valid, you have to go through it all again in Germany. With previous rulings in Germany on the same subject, it's still questionable if Blizzard will succeed (again) in Germany...


    Why would you tacitly support these scum bags. They need to be stopped and if Germany is shielding them then you need to lobby for a change not rejoice in them getting away with it in Germany.



    kinda is not support its reality, the us ruling means nothing if the company is not on US, so if they are in germany, they will have to make the case in germany, the US ruling could mean something IF they had something in US, but here is the problem, all programs is sold over internet, also is not a legal thing so saying they had to pay means nothing if they are not forced to do so, this is not even the end of the battle, they still are just fighting it out
    I think you missed the bit where Blizzard won the court case, again, and that it now gives precedent for other companies to use that ruling to virtually guarantee their own cases, a further ruling in Germany is not required, as this one only really applies to NA, but considering how large a factor that is when it comes to online gaming, i suspect that its all that is required to destroy some of these companies that make cheat software. :o
    I think you missed too the question of who will force then to pay?

    The courts. I'm sure if they fail to comply with the demands of the court, then they could be extradited and serve jail time. 
    and for that you will need the germany ruling, us court can't bypass the sovereign of others countrys, that is the point i'm trying to make
    FOR HONOR, FOR FREEDOM.... and for some money.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    CrazKanuk said:
    Phry said:

    kitarad said:


    Reizla said:

    ...big deal...

    Bosslansd is a German company (was by now), and to make a non-German/non-EU court ruling valid, you have to go through it all again in Germany. With previous rulings in Germany on the same subject, it's still questionable if Blizzard will succeed (again) in Germany...


    Why would you tacitly support these scum bags. They need to be stopped and if Germany is shielding them then you need to lobby for a change not rejoice in them getting away with it in Germany.



    kinda is not support its reality, the us ruling means nothing if the company is not on US, so if they are in germany, they will have to make the case in germany, the US ruling could mean something IF they had something in US, but here is the problem, all programs is sold over internet, also is not a legal thing so saying they had to pay means nothing if they are not forced to do so, this is not even the end of the battle, they still are just fighting it out
    I think you missed the bit where Blizzard won the court case, again, and that it now gives precedent for other companies to use that ruling to virtually guarantee their own cases, a further ruling in Germany is not required, as this one only really applies to NA, but considering how large a factor that is when it comes to online gaming, i suspect that its all that is required to destroy some of these companies that make cheat software. :o
    I think you missed too the question of who will force then to pay?

    The courts. I'm sure if they fail to comply with the demands of the court, then they could be extradited and serve jail time. 
    and for that you will need the germany ruling, us court can't bypass the sovereign of others countrys, that is the point i'm trying to make
    They don't need the german courts, as the case was based on the sale of bots to people in NA, not elsewhere, it could be said even, if it had been based on units sold to people in germany etc. that would be different.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,489
    Phry said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Phry said:

    kitarad said:


    Reizla said:

    ...big deal...

    Bosslansd is a German company (was by now), and to make a non-German/non-EU court ruling valid, you have to go through it all again in Germany. With previous rulings in Germany on the same subject, it's still questionable if Blizzard will succeed (again) in Germany...


    Why would you tacitly support these scum bags. They need to be stopped and if Germany is shielding them then you need to lobby for a change not rejoice in them getting away with it in Germany.



    kinda is not support its reality, the us ruling means nothing if the company is not on US, so if they are in germany, they will have to make the case in germany, the US ruling could mean something IF they had something in US, but here is the problem, all programs is sold over internet, also is not a legal thing so saying they had to pay means nothing if they are not forced to do so, this is not even the end of the battle, they still are just fighting it out
    I think you missed the bit where Blizzard won the court case, again, and that it now gives precedent for other companies to use that ruling to virtually guarantee their own cases, a further ruling in Germany is not required, as this one only really applies to NA, but considering how large a factor that is when it comes to online gaming, i suspect that its all that is required to destroy some of these companies that make cheat software. :o
    I think you missed too the question of who will force then to pay?

    The courts. I'm sure if they fail to comply with the demands of the court, then they could be extradited and serve jail time. 
    and for that you will need the germany ruling, us court can't bypass the sovereign of others countrys, that is the point i'm trying to make
    They don't need the german courts, as the case was based on the sale of bots to people in NA, not elsewhere, it could be said even, if it had been based on units sold to people in germany etc. that would be different.
    This is correct. Take a look at the case against FIFA. It was brought because money had passed through the US system, irrespective of where the governing body was based. In extreme cases the US can file for extradition to bring people to the US for trial, but that's usually on a far higher scale than the figures mentioned here.

  • ThupliThupli Member RarePosts: 1,284
    I heard that Blizzard won their appeal in the German courts at a higher level.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,489
    Thupli said:
    I heard that Blizzard won their appeal in the German courts at a higher level.
    You're right, as reported on this site:
    http://www.mmorpg.com/world-of-warcraft/news/blizzard-wins-german-lawsuit-against-bot-maker-1000042886
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,163
    JudgeUK said:
    Phry said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Phry said:

    kitarad said:


    Reizla said:

    ...big deal...

    Bosslansd is a German company (was by now), and to make a non-German/non-EU court ruling valid, you have to go through it all again in Germany. With previous rulings in Germany on the same subject, it's still questionable if Blizzard will succeed (again) in Germany...


    Why would you tacitly support these scum bags. They need to be stopped and if Germany is shielding them then you need to lobby for a change not rejoice in them getting away with it in Germany.



    kinda is not support its reality, the us ruling means nothing if the company is not on US, so if they are in germany, they will have to make the case in germany, the US ruling could mean something IF they had something in US, but here is the problem, all programs is sold over internet, also is not a legal thing so saying they had to pay means nothing if they are not forced to do so, this is not even the end of the battle, they still are just fighting it out
    I think you missed the bit where Blizzard won the court case, again, and that it now gives precedent for other companies to use that ruling to virtually guarantee their own cases, a further ruling in Germany is not required, as this one only really applies to NA, but considering how large a factor that is when it comes to online gaming, i suspect that its all that is required to destroy some of these companies that make cheat software. :o
    I think you missed too the question of who will force then to pay?

    The courts. I'm sure if they fail to comply with the demands of the court, then they could be extradited and serve jail time. 
    and for that you will need the germany ruling, us court can't bypass the sovereign of others countrys, that is the point i'm trying to make
    They don't need the german courts, as the case was based on the sale of bots to people in NA, not elsewhere, it could be said even, if it had been based on units sold to people in germany etc. that would be different.
    This is correct. Take a look at the case against FIFA. It was brought because money had passed through the US system, irrespective of where the governing body was based. In extreme cases the US can file for extradition to bring people to the US for trial, but that's usually on a far higher scale than the figures mentioned here.

    I don't believe extradition relates to civil cases.

    The only thing the U.S. court could do is to seize any U.S. based assets. That doesn't stop Blizzard from trying to obtain payment and assets through a German court.

    I once had to sue a California company for non payment. Suing in my and my companies home country of Canada would have been completely useless. I had to sue in the state of California, where the guy and his assets who tried to rip me off resided.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,303
    flizzer said:
    What happened to all the people on the forums that told us this was perfectly legal and no way would Blizzard win this suit?

    Who would say that they are legal?  They are the very definition of cheating.  They must be some bot users who are trying to justify their behavior.  It's self evident that it's wrong.

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • mbrodiembrodie Member RarePosts: 1,477
    edited April 2017
    Couple of things

    Not illegal - being against terms of service is not illegal, you can not be charged and convicted and possibly serve jail time for using a bot. It's completely a civil matter not criminal. That is not justification that is a fact.

    Many bots have lost cases to the US in the past, the only ones that it affected were US based bot companies, blizzard has to get a German court ruling to enforce this victory.

    It's won't stop anything as was said previously many bots have faced legal action, shut down and more spring up in their place.

    Good job though blizzard, if you can get this judgement enforced through a German court you will be laughing 
  • DrunkWolfDrunkWolf Member RarePosts: 1,626
    I never got into any Blizzard games, but Thank god they are doing this. its about time these companies lay the smack down on these cheaters. I can only pray EA takes a step in this direction and fixes the hacking problems in battlefield games. not to mention Funcom and how badly hacked conan exiles is, they need to get involved in this to.
  • ananitananit Member UncommonPosts: 272
    edited April 2017
    if there is such a huge demand for RMT/bots etc. and thus an offer then maybe game makers should attack the root of the problem :
    why do so many people feel the need to use rmt in their game ?
    and the answer is quite simple : antiquated game design and lazy developers using the same old formula and then trying to fend off a horde of botters and gold sellers/buyers.
    well maybe next time they design a game they should probably allocate the lawsuit/antibot division budget to design a way to not have to deal with that crap or at least reduce the impact they have on the game and the game economy (like black desert did with their controlled economy, passive money making and no player to player trades. it's not perfect and there are still bots but at least it's a step in the right direction) and do some prevention over treatment.

    anyways glad these fuckers got what they deserved and i wish it would have happened a lot earlier (the lineage 2 bot plague was quite something back in the days).

  • Moguy3Moguy3 Member UncommonPosts: 70
    But what everyone is missing is this is company parked in Germany. Blizzard can sue and win ALL DAY LONG but getting the money is a whole nother deal. One of the biggest cost consuming factors of winning a case is paying to get your money.  I dont advocate bots , at all, but dont get yourself riled up thinking this hurt Bossland . A snake knows how to be a snake. This is par for the course for them.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,020
    Bossland Better Call Saul!
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