Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Manveer Heir fired from Bioware (My thoughts)
klash2def
Member EpicPosts: 1,949
Okay.. so lets talk about this guy Manveer Heir.. first let me preface this by saying, I completely agree with WHY Bioware the company is getting rid of Manveer .. Keeping him is not a good look for business considering their whole mantra is about the Inclusion of everyone. I am also a person who believes racism has no place in this world..but what I do not agree on is the hypocrisy of the people calling for his removal. I think its less about his tweets and more about something else far deeper than social media.
All across the internet people are saying Manveer's Tweets (from 2014-15 btw) are as racist as it gets.. really? As racist as it gets? I'm looking around at people like wtf are you talking about? Do you even know what racism is?
What Manveer said isn't racism. Its Idiotic at best, but is an actual reflection of the reality of America. If you believe its racism its because you have never really experienced it. I have experienced it many times over in my life as a black male, in my former Military days I've experienced it, growing up in North Carolina I've experienced it.. even now working in the entertainment industry. It is getting better ofc but its a slow process and just because its starting to get better does not mean people will forget how its been anytime soon. That's on both sides of the fence. The Indian game developer makes a lot of over generalization style comments and yes STUPIDLY, but its not racism.
Now.
While I agree with this move by Bioware, the amount of people who actually boycotted Bioware (literally people wouldn't buy ME:A), attacked other Bioware Employees (the VA for Sara Ryder was deemed SJW for defending him) and generally complaining about Manveer was astonishing.. considering the people who were calling for his execution were using terms like "SJW".. but isn't calling for the removal of a racist man from a company make you a "SJW" by your own definition? Just something to think about.
Damn It sucks that anybody who calls for Equality for Women, African Americans, Latino, LGBT, Natives ETC.. are called SJW! Its hypocritical.. As if somehow wanting those things inherently make you the enemy (of whom?), but then also at the same time trying to get a person fired for TWEETS that you thought were offensive. When I watched the review videos for ME:A I see a lot of people throwing the words SJW around as if Bioware is wrong for trying to be inclusive of different types of people and situations. Calling for the removal of a racist man from a company is the right thing to do, There is no question about it.. but lets be honest: This wasn't about the removal of a racist man. This was about the approval of white male superiority complex and I hate that is even a thing.
There are far worse people working in higher positions in the games industry that nobody is saying anything about. Maybe because it doesn't affect the majority of the industry IE: White Males. Its ironic that when white males are (negatively by their own standard) affected in gaming (Rarely happens btw) how fast people take up arms and mobilize but when it comes to other races or groups such as LGBTs and African Americans its silence. Its almost like they are saying "See? We experience injustice too! Told ya you dumb SJWs!"
What you guys are failing to see is that its just not the same thing. A Indian game dev giving his political views on his PERSONAL twitter account is not equal to racism. Its morally wrong, or even mean what he said yes, but not racism.
For years games didn't even include characters that were not heterosexual white males. I personally feel Bioware's latest game did a little too much shoehorning things into the game just to say they did it, like how every other person is black.. I'm not one for that either. Its not tasteful. We aren't asking to be the center of the fucking galaxy, just treated as the equals we are. That's a thread for a different time but I digress.
Things have began to change today ofc but the change is being met with resistance from the people who also want the same justices applied to themselves. It makes no sense. HOW can you scream Fire Manveer Heir for being racist, ( racism is wrong) but be okay with the lack of representation of other groups of people in gaming for so long? (Again racism is wrong. Exclusion of a group of people based on skin color or pref is wrong)
Furthermore if I took the logic of the folks screaming "Death to SJW bioware!" or "I'm not buying Bioware games until they fire Manveer!" If I applied this logic to EVERYTHING I would literally be boycotting every single company ever. Maybe Manveer should not have lost his job today for his remarks in 2014, Maybe he should have.. either way what I think is lost on people because again.. the majority of the people speaking out are white males, is that his points are a reflection of the harsh truths in America.
"The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings."
"White people, I am not here to make you feel comfortable or okay with yourself or the white supremacy you benefit from."
"White people not understanding why racists things are racist: A tradition unlike any other"
- Manveer Heir
I was really surprised at how much I related to some (not all) of his comments. Based on how he was portrayed in the media, and before I actually READ his tweets in question, I believed he had to have said the worse things ever..something along the lines of what a KKK member would say about a Black person.. because this is racism we are pinning on him, and it must be bad enough for him to lose his job right? Once I realized that the people who were calling for his removal, making the youtube vids, and calling people SJWs were all the same people, I had a better understanding of the picture. This wasn't about him being racist as much as it was about white males feeling some type of empowerment from his removal.
One of my friends (35 year old white male) said to me (A 31 yr old black male) if Heir were talking about Black people like this he would have been fired same day. I beg to differ, do you know how often this happens to black people? Daily. Matter of fact nobody would have gave a flying shit if he was talking about black folk. The justice system has never favored black people, and we the nation are used to it.
Look at the NFL for examples. Ben Roethlisberger (White QB) still has a job after being accused of rape. Micheal Vick (Black QB) went to prison for a year over FUNDING a DOG FIGHTING ring. Colin Kaepernick (Black QB) cant get a job right now with a team because he took a knee during the national anthem for the injustices committed by the Police. Not even a backup job. White people do not have the same experience as black people when it comes to justice and race. Not to tangent but this is just a small example of the truth.
All across the internet people are saying Manveer's Tweets (from 2014-15 btw) are as racist as it gets.. really? As racist as it gets? I'm looking around at people like wtf are you talking about? Do you even know what racism is?
What Manveer said isn't racism. Its Idiotic at best, but is an actual reflection of the reality of America. If you believe its racism its because you have never really experienced it. I have experienced it many times over in my life as a black male, in my former Military days I've experienced it, growing up in North Carolina I've experienced it.. even now working in the entertainment industry. It is getting better ofc but its a slow process and just because its starting to get better does not mean people will forget how its been anytime soon. That's on both sides of the fence. The Indian game developer makes a lot of over generalization style comments and yes STUPIDLY, but its not racism.
Now.
While I agree with this move by Bioware, the amount of people who actually boycotted Bioware (literally people wouldn't buy ME:A), attacked other Bioware Employees (the VA for Sara Ryder was deemed SJW for defending him) and generally complaining about Manveer was astonishing.. considering the people who were calling for his execution were using terms like "SJW".. but isn't calling for the removal of a racist man from a company make you a "SJW" by your own definition? Just something to think about.
Damn It sucks that anybody who calls for Equality for Women, African Americans, Latino, LGBT, Natives ETC.. are called SJW! Its hypocritical.. As if somehow wanting those things inherently make you the enemy (of whom?), but then also at the same time trying to get a person fired for TWEETS that you thought were offensive. When I watched the review videos for ME:A I see a lot of people throwing the words SJW around as if Bioware is wrong for trying to be inclusive of different types of people and situations. Calling for the removal of a racist man from a company is the right thing to do, There is no question about it.. but lets be honest: This wasn't about the removal of a racist man. This was about the approval of white male superiority complex and I hate that is even a thing.
There are far worse people working in higher positions in the games industry that nobody is saying anything about. Maybe because it doesn't affect the majority of the industry IE: White Males. Its ironic that when white males are (negatively by their own standard) affected in gaming (Rarely happens btw) how fast people take up arms and mobilize but when it comes to other races or groups such as LGBTs and African Americans its silence. Its almost like they are saying "See? We experience injustice too! Told ya you dumb SJWs!"
What you guys are failing to see is that its just not the same thing. A Indian game dev giving his political views on his PERSONAL twitter account is not equal to racism. Its morally wrong, or even mean what he said yes, but not racism.
For years games didn't even include characters that were not heterosexual white males. I personally feel Bioware's latest game did a little too much shoehorning things into the game just to say they did it, like how every other person is black.. I'm not one for that either. Its not tasteful. We aren't asking to be the center of the fucking galaxy, just treated as the equals we are. That's a thread for a different time but I digress.
Things have began to change today ofc but the change is being met with resistance from the people who also want the same justices applied to themselves. It makes no sense. HOW can you scream Fire Manveer Heir for being racist, ( racism is wrong) but be okay with the lack of representation of other groups of people in gaming for so long? (Again racism is wrong. Exclusion of a group of people based on skin color or pref is wrong)
Furthermore if I took the logic of the folks screaming "Death to SJW bioware!" or "I'm not buying Bioware games until they fire Manveer!" If I applied this logic to EVERYTHING I would literally be boycotting every single company ever. Maybe Manveer should not have lost his job today for his remarks in 2014, Maybe he should have.. either way what I think is lost on people because again.. the majority of the people speaking out are white males, is that his points are a reflection of the harsh truths in America.
"The entire discussion of race in America centers around the protection of White feelings."
"White people, I am not here to make you feel comfortable or okay with yourself or the white supremacy you benefit from."
"White people not understanding why racists things are racist: A tradition unlike any other"
- Manveer Heir
I was really surprised at how much I related to some (not all) of his comments. Based on how he was portrayed in the media, and before I actually READ his tweets in question, I believed he had to have said the worse things ever..something along the lines of what a KKK member would say about a Black person.. because this is racism we are pinning on him, and it must be bad enough for him to lose his job right? Once I realized that the people who were calling for his removal, making the youtube vids, and calling people SJWs were all the same people, I had a better understanding of the picture. This wasn't about him being racist as much as it was about white males feeling some type of empowerment from his removal.
One of my friends (35 year old white male) said to me (A 31 yr old black male) if Heir were talking about Black people like this he would have been fired same day. I beg to differ, do you know how often this happens to black people? Daily. Matter of fact nobody would have gave a flying shit if he was talking about black folk. The justice system has never favored black people, and we the nation are used to it.
Look at the NFL for examples. Ben Roethlisberger (White QB) still has a job after being accused of rape. Micheal Vick (Black QB) went to prison for a year over FUNDING a DOG FIGHTING ring. Colin Kaepernick (Black QB) cant get a job right now with a team because he took a knee during the national anthem for the injustices committed by the Police. Not even a backup job. White people do not have the same experience as black people when it comes to justice and race. Not to tangent but this is just a small example of the truth.
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Comments
Heir was a minority (Indian?) working at a AAA game company so he was in the spotlight and sadly comments he made on his personal social media accounts years ago came back to haunt him later. I dont think Manveer is the racist monster that people who use SJW as a insult would have you believe. BTW all this shit storm over OLD tweets. People were trying to get him fired back in December 2015. It really bothers me that he will hang for his comments when there are actual shitty things being done to others that the community as a whole will try to ignore.
Ironic trying to get people fired who offend you, and then having the balls to call them the SJW..
Its really tiring seeing People being hypocrites without even thinking twice.
Just my thoughts.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
SJW has become an insult to most people. It's viewed as being overly sensitive and reactive to issues on diversity. What we have seen from efforts to enforce diversity is that diversity adds very little value. In particular diversity in Mass Effect: Andromeda seemed diversity was more important than game play. Considering the lead game play designer was hell bent on alienating the target audience, I can hardly find fault that the game play was lacking.
Now calling this guy racist might be a stretch, it's definitely on the softer side. I hardly think EA would fire a developer over complaints about racism. There must be a deeper reason why. Most players hardly know any of the developers unless they get up on stage and talk at E3. I would be surprised if even 100 of the players knew who he was before he was fired. I don't wish to guess why EA fired him as there can be a plethora of reason why. Probably the most logical reason is that Game Studios cull their developers after they release a title. Considering the game play on this was not so good, I can see the lead game play developer being culled.
Now if we are talking about diversity in the video game industry. Over 90% of the applicants are white or Asian males. In order to promote diversity in the field, less than 80% of employed developers are white or Asian males. The main goal of a game developer should be to hire the best talent, not enforce diversity.
But then again when someone like Trump is President of US with much of his views and things he said clashing with the "politically correct" department, I'm not sure why this guy shouldn't be allowed his views of hating white people and keep his job. Our standards are messed up aren't they?