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Skill ups

2

Comments

  • KajidourdenKajidourden Member EpicPosts: 3,026
    I like the idea.  Gives you one more thing to work on for your character.  That's what so many games of today are missing.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,240
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    If you were using a "repeating keyboard macro", those were expressly forbidden by the Terms of Service.  The in-game EQ1 macros had no facility to repeat.

    As far as I know, only bard songs would auto-repeat, allowing the character to skill up musical skills while the player was afk.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    Mendel said:
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    If you were using a "repeating keyboard macro", those were expressly forbidden by the Terms of Service.  The in-game EQ1 macros had no facility to repeat.

    As far as I know, only bard songs would auto-repeat, allowing the character to skill up musical skills while the player was afk.
    First, the rule said nothing about repeating macros.  It was about playing the game while afk (aka botting). 

    But more to the point, the intention of the rule was to prevent players from xping afk - not skilling up afk.  There has never been any action taken against a player skilling up afk.  OTOH they have been very firm about suspensions and bans of players caught botting.

    It was allowed in EQ.  Im saying that to make skillups relevant it should not be allowed in Pantheon.  The way to do that is to make combat skillups impossible without being in combat.
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335

    I remember tying a Sense Heading macro to my movement keys.


    The skill was always at max, since it was in constant usage.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,081

    I remember tying a Sense Heading macro to my movement keys.


    The skill was always at max, since it was in constant usage.

    Great way to spam yourself =-D
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    first off i agree with you but IIRC you needed macroquest to do what you are talking about and that was definitely illegal.
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    svann said:
    Mendel said:
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    If you were using a "repeating keyboard macro", those were expressly forbidden by the Terms of Service.  The in-game EQ1 macros had no facility to repeat.

    As far as I know, only bard songs would auto-repeat, allowing the character to skill up musical skills while the player was afk.
    First, the rule said nothing about repeating macros.  It was about playing the game while afk (aka botting). 

    But more to the point, the intention of the rule was to prevent players from xping afk - not skilling up afk.  There has never been any action taken against a player skilling up afk.  OTOH they have been very firm about suspensions and bans of players caught botting.

    It was allowed in EQ.  Im saying that to make skillups relevant it should not be allowed in Pantheon.  The way to do that is to make combat skillups impossible without being in combat.
    what program was used to do it though? that's what mattered. there were very few third party programs that were legal and macroquest was one of the most notorious and very illegal.

    regardless if they enforced it by banning people, that doesn't change the fact it was not legal to do. buying in game currency online from third party companies is illegal as well, how often do people get in trouble for buying it? 
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    baphamet said:
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    first off i agree with you but IIRC you needed macroquest to do what you are talking about and that was definitely illegal.
    No you dont need macroquest.  Microsoft mouse and keyboard center is all you need.
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Nanfoodle said:

    I remember tying a Sense Heading macro to my movement keys.


    The skill was always at max, since it was in constant usage.

    Great way to spam yourself =-D
    I had a separate, very small, chat window that I directed all spam to.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    svann said:
    baphamet said:
    ill never forget skilling up FD with my monk, i swear even those skill ups had hell levels.
    That reminds me - if they want skillups to be relevant then the player should have to be in combat with mobs of high enough level to get xp.  In eq people skillup FD in a safe zone while afk using a repeating keyboard macro.  Same with casting spells and a few other things.  All combat skills should require actual combat.
    first off i agree with you but IIRC you needed macroquest to do what you are talking about and that was definitely illegal.
    No you dont need macroquest.  Microsoft mouse and keyboard center is all you need.
    are we talking about currently or back in the day? i'm clearly talking like 15+ years ago. there might have been another way to do it then but if so i wasn't aware of it.

    macroquest is obsolete now.
  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Nanfoodle said:

    I remember tying a Sense Heading macro to my movement keys.


    The skill was always at max, since it was in constant usage.

    Great way to spam yourself =-D
    I had a separate, very small, chat window that I directed all spam to.
    I miss seeing all of that spam in separate windows...seeing my procs and skills going off was pretty awesome, or actually seeing things speed up when I was hasted...

    Caseyx

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.
  • AmatheAmathe Member LegendaryPosts: 7,630
    DMKano said:

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO
    If you play from launch and are among the first group of folks to hit max level, that is probably true. Everyone else will be in the same boat at that point.

    Later, as the game matures, hitting max level in trash gear will make it hard to find a group - unless you have friends to help you out. 

    EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests

  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.

    Was valid in Eq1 back in 1999 - levels were by far the most important factor in determining player power.

    A level 50 necro for example in mediocre gear was a god compared to a level 30 necro in best gear.

    A level 30 couldnt land many spells on anything above 35 - levels were HUGELY important in EQ1 vanilla.

    In a level based MMORPGs - levels matter a whole lot, so again getting to max level asap is what all guilds do so they can focus on end game gearing up.


    you are not wrong but not everyone likes to play like that, lots of people enjoy leveling up and getting the gear, it's part of the experience.
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,081
    edited April 2017
    baphamet said:
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.

    Was valid in Eq1 back in 1999 - levels were by far the most important factor in determining player power.

    A level 50 necro for example in mediocre gear was a god compared to a level 30 necro in best gear.

    A level 30 couldnt land many spells on anything above 35 - levels were HUGELY important in EQ1 vanilla.

    In a level based MMORPGs - levels matter a whole lot, so again getting to max level asap is what all guilds do so they can focus on end game gearing up.


    you are not wrong but not everyone likes to play like that, lots of people enjoy leveling up and getting the gear, it's part of the experience.
    He is not wrong to a point but it will only work so far in Pantheon. Like trying to get max level would mean you would need to grind the easiest mobs in the easier areas to level. Slowing your leveling to a crawl. Here is the reason why. Outside of finding exploits to level. Environments have tiers, so you need to get items that let you play or get past some areas that get you to the best loot and exp. So you need to earn your environmental gear. Also trying to level in a level 45 area, with bad gear would make you a very soft target. From what I have read from the devs. Someone trying that would be so under powered they would need to leave the area. So if you want to inflate your level 3-5 levels for the area you are in. May help you but for the level down system. So even if you could get to level 50 to go farm items in a level 30 dungeon, to be better equipped for a level 40 dungeon. Well the second that level 50 went to do a dungeon in a level 30 area, they would find them selves down leveled to that zone. Leaving them with little advantage. 

    EDIT: Also skipping content like this in a normal MMO where end game is the game. No big deal. Where Pantheon starts at level around level 8-10. You would be pointlessly skipping tones of content. IMO thats sad. @Kilsin Got anything you would like to add? 
    Post edited by Nanfoodle on
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Amathe said:
    DMKano said:

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO
    If you play from launch and are among the first group of folks to hit max level, that is probably true. Everyone else will be in the same boat at that point.

    Later, as the game matures, hitting max level in trash gear will make it hard to find a group - unless you have friends to help you out. 
    Also, if Pantheon do it oldschool you will need good gear if you want to level at a good speed. With crap gear you will be stuck spawn camping safe areas and that takes time. When the difficulty goes up good gear helps a lot.

    In the old days few bothered to reach max level in crap gear since it either was incredible hard or incredible slow and boring. When MMOs dropped the difficulty people stopped doing that (it became common around 2006, why bother getting good gear when everything is easy and you just outlevel it in 6 hours anyways?) but in an oldschool game you at least want acceptable gear for your level. You don't need the best gear unless you run a hard dungeon at the level (and some dungeons will be harder then others) but you still want an acceptable one.

    Of course you could also have a powerful guild that powerlevels you and do all the work but if Pantheons levelspeed is even close to EQs they will expect you to powerlevel other people a lot for doing that.

    I guess Brad could be doing things way easier this time but after seeing a few vids that ain't my impression. It is easy to say that you will max out in the starter gear before the game is out, you can do that rather easily in modern games, done it some times myself when I been bored but I would surely want to see a stream of Kano doing a mid level dungeon in 20 levels below crap gear. ;) 

    And you will want to do those dungeons here, in all oldschool games dungeons will level you several times faster then doing easier open world content, risk Vs reward you know.

    Pantheon will be far more modern then EQ but the idea behind it is similar. If you think it will be as easy as most games are 2017 you will be in for a shocker.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.

    Was valid in Eq1 back in 1999 - levels were by far the most important factor in determining player power.

    A level 50 necro for example in mediocre gear was a god compared to a level 30 necro in best gear.

    A level 30 couldnt land many spells on anything above 35 - levels were HUGELY important in EQ1 vanilla.

    In a level based MMORPGs - levels matter a whole lot, so again getting to max level asap is what all guilds do so they can focus on end game gearing up.


    But in a slow leveling game low level gear is important because you wont get L50 quickly without having the gear to help you level.  That is, unless you get carried by high level players.
  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.

    Was valid in Eq1 back in 1999 - levels were by far the most important factor in determining player power.

    A level 50 necro for example in mediocre gear was a god compared to a level 30 necro in best gear.

    A level 30 couldnt land many spells on anything above 35 - levels were HUGELY important in EQ1 vanilla.

    In a level based MMORPGs - levels matter a whole lot, so again getting to max level asap is what all guilds do so they can focus on end game gearing up.



    Try that same trick with a Fighter in EQ.

    You'll wind up wiping the entire group. Repeatedly. Until you get decent gear for your level.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,368
    This probably could be or should be a different topic but anyone know if they are doing something similar to EQ's AA system?
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,081
    Albatroes said:
    This probably could be or should be a different topic but anyone know if they are doing something similar to EQ's AA system?
    All the devs have said is they like the idea of ways to keep progressing your char after you cap. No more no less.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,223
    Albatroes said:
    This probably could be or should be a different topic but anyone know if they are doing something similar to EQ's AA system?
    I will make a solid guess and say not at release.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    There's really no need for AAs. They said the whole AA system in EQ was something that they created after launch for lack of a better option. There's really no reason they couldn't provide new ways to upgrade both passive and active abilities without doing it through a game menu. I would hope by 2018/2019 that content would be the means of progression, not purely by grinding experience and checking skill options on a menu.


  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,309
    Nanfoodle said:
    baphamet said:
    DMKano said:
    svann said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    There are actually dungeons you can at least start prior to level 10. I say start, because dungeons usually have a wide level range and will require further leveling and possibly returning to later in order to complete.

    Well said though, Pantheon isn't a game where you focus on leveling up. The highlight of the game will not be max level, but the entire process. What you achieve during the process will also have a much greater impact on what you're able to do at max level. Based on what they've told us, if someone only focuses on levels, they will be ill-equipped at max level.


    But equipping yourself is FAR easier than leveling up - because the gear you wany to keep will be from max level mobs so might as well level to max ASAP.

    In worse case scenario youd have to farm gear from lower level mobs which will be far easier at max level anyway.

    There are no downsides to hitting max level first and then gearing up IMO

    my guild uses a simple formula - use gear thats functional when leveling up, and only focus on getting gear that you will keep end game. 

    Camping for days for some level 20 drop that will be obsolete in 5 levels - waste of time
    That is only valid on current mmos that level too fast.

    Was valid in Eq1 back in 1999 - levels were by far the most important factor in determining player power.

    A level 50 necro for example in mediocre gear was a god compared to a level 30 necro in best gear.

    A level 30 couldnt land many spells on anything above 35 - levels were HUGELY important in EQ1 vanilla.

    In a level based MMORPGs - levels matter a whole lot, so again getting to max level asap is what all guilds do so they can focus on end game gearing up.


    you are not wrong but not everyone likes to play like that, lots of people enjoy leveling up and getting the gear, it's part of the experience.
    He is not wrong to a point but it will only work so far in Pantheon. Like trying to get max level would mean you would need to grind the easiest mobs in the easier areas to level. Slowing your leveling to a crawl. Here is the reason why. Outside of finding exploits to level. Environments have tiers, so you need to get items that let you play or get past some areas that get you to the best loot and exp. So you need to earn your environmental gear. Also trying to level in a level 45 area, with bad gear would make you a very soft target. From what I have read from the devs. Someone trying that would be so under powered they would need to leave the area. So if you want to inflate your level 3-5 levels for the area you are in. May help you but for the level down system. So even if you could get to level 50 to go farm items in a level 30 dungeon, to be better equipped for a level 40 dungeon. Well the second that level 50 went to do a dungeon in a level 30 area, they would find them selves down leveled to that zone. Leaving them with little advantage. 

    EDIT: Also skipping content like this in a normal MMO where end game is the game. No big deal. Where Pantheon starts at level around level 8-10. You would be pointlessly skipping tones of content. IMO thats sad. @Kilsin Got anything you would like to add? 
    well he is also talking about doing this with his guild, guilds do this kind of stuff so they can be server firsts. in vanilla EQ1 you really didn't need much gear until endgame unless you were a tank.

    it does depend on how pantheon handles this and i am by no means the type that does this. but he is right about levels offering the best power upgrade to your character in vanilla EQ and really for the first few expansions at least.

    heck my shaman didn't have much of anything until he was 30+ and he really didn't need it at that time.
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