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Like It or Not, Destiny 2 is Good for the MMO Genre - Bill Murphy at MMORPG.com

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  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,221
    Torval said:
    Kyleran said:
    Mein-MMO said:
    Hello, I've just registered. I'm the Boss of the biggest MMO-Site in Germany (
    http://mein-mmo.de/), with over 3,5 million users a month.

    Fun fact: Destiny is by far our most popular game. We see by our metrics that a lot of mmorpgs playes are visiting our Destiny articles recently, among other coming from WoW articles. In Germany everyone calls it a MMO.

    Guys, I'm following your site for many years now! I love it.
    Hmm, so the educational system in Germany has declined worse than here?  ;)

    Weird.
    Real classy. There's other ways to get upvotes than by making rude comments and insulting new members. Dude, you live in Florida (according to your profile). You're in no place to be making remarks about poor education elsewhere.
    You should check out the Adam Carolla Show.  They have a game called Germany or Florida.  You get to pick which insane news story came from Germany or Florida.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member EpicPosts: 7,275
    Everything is good for the MMO genre, expect good MMO releases. Bring it on Korean MMO's! bwhahaha!
  • WalterWhiteWalterWhite Member UncommonPosts: 411
    Whatever you want to label it, Destiny is multiplayer, it is online and whether you want to believe it or not it is massive. It has millions of players and will gain more with Destiny 2 as the flaws that came with the first destiny were ironed out over the expansions even though some still remained I know but Bungie know what these are and these should not be present in the sequel unless they are completely incompetent which I don't think they are.
    Even the sceptics are keeping an eye on this game just in case they find that Destiny 2 may just be the game they have longed for and the game which is good for the MMO genre not only on the consoles as before which it was, but now for PC which many PC gamers have wanted for the past few years.
    All in all, everyone should be happy, I know most are, I am, are you?
  • MetrobiusMetrobius Member UncommonPosts: 96





    You can call a kitten a muffin, but you wouldn't put it in the oven. I hope.

  • AzwarAzwar Member UncommonPosts: 21
    Destiny is not MMO bill your the reason the genre is failing by posting stupid article like this. Ive been playing mmo's since creation. M59, UO, EQ, Shadowbane were mmo's. This junk is a lobby based FPS with some random RPG elements throwen in.

    image
  • jdnewelljdnewell Member UncommonPosts: 2,237
    If they get rid of the issues I had with the first one then I may pick it up.
    As of now I will wait for it to release and see how it is.

  • moosecatlolmoosecatlol Member UncommonPosts: 1,491
    I'm probably going to play it.
  • SenanSenan Member UncommonPosts: 788
    Ugh. If games like Destiny are all we have to look forward to in this genre going forward, thank zombie Jesus there are still quite a few quality old school alternatives lingering around (and will likely remain thanks to private servers). I may never need to upgrade my PC again, heh.

    image
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,584
    Eva-01 said:
    I have a feeling Destiny 2 is going to be more a lot MMO-ish than the first.
    Its a multiplayer game, releasing on consoles, so I doubt it. The console crowd demand high graphics quality, so I can't see them being able to increase the player count up to MMO levels for Destiny 2. 

    I can imagine Destiny 2 having more RPG features in it than the first, but they'd have to drop their graphics quality down too far to become an actual MMO.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Eva-01 said:
    I have a feeling Destiny 2 is going to be more a lot MMO-ish than the first.
    Its a multiplayer game, releasing on consoles, so I doubt it. The console crowd demand high graphics quality, so I can't see them being able to increase the player count up to MMO levels for Destiny 2. 

    I can imagine Destiny 2 having more RPG features in it than the first, but they'd have to drop their graphics quality down too far to become an actual MMO.

    Ooooo, ouch...... that's not a very flattering characterization of MMOs. You're not wrong, though, MMOs generally look terrible. That being said, hopefully there will be some advancements soon with things like Lumberyard. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
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  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,584
    CrazKanuk said:
    Eva-01 said:
    I have a feeling Destiny 2 is going to be more a lot MMO-ish than the first.
    Its a multiplayer game, releasing on consoles, so I doubt it. The console crowd demand high graphics quality, so I can't see them being able to increase the player count up to MMO levels for Destiny 2. 

    I can imagine Destiny 2 having more RPG features in it than the first, but they'd have to drop their graphics quality down too far to become an actual MMO.

    Ooooo, ouch...... that's not a very flattering characterization of MMOs. You're not wrong, though, MMOs generally look terrible. That being said, hopefully there will be some advancements soon with things like Lumberyard. 
    Its just a technical limitation. More people on screen = more graphics power required. 

    MMOs are the largest type of multiplayer game, so require the most resources in order to maintain graphics fidelity. Regardless of platform, an MMO will always hit the limit, at which point you either turn down the graphics, accept the lag, or reduce the amount of people. 

    In order for destiny 2 to be considered an MMO, its going to have to increase the player count by a hell of a lot compared to destiny 1, but the xbone / ps4 aren't powerful enough to do that and maintain graphics quality. So, chances are highly likely that bungie will keep the player count low in order to maintain graphics, so it won't be an MMO. 
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    edited April 2017
    I guess I think it's a lot more interesting whether it's a good game or not, than what genre it belongs to. Destiny was a massive disappointment to me, so I'm not expecting miracles here. That said, I'm happy it's coming to PC.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Whatever you want to label it, Destiny is multiplayer, it is online and whether you want to believe it or not it is massive. It has millions of players and will gain more with Destiny 2 as the flaws that came with the first destiny were ironed out over the expansions even though some still remained I know but Bungie know what these are and these should not be present in the sequel unless they are completely incompetent which I don't think they are.
    Even the sceptics are keeping an eye on this game just in case they find that Destiny 2 may just be the game they have longed for and the game which is good for the MMO genre not only on the consoles as before which it was, but now for PC which many PC gamers have wanted for the past few years.
    All in all, everyone should be happy, I know most are, I am, are you?
    Massive, in terms of Multiplayer, does not mean what you seem to think it means, just because several million people own a game, and play it, doesn't mean a game is massively multiplayer, otherwise Candy Crush would be an MMO, pretty sure millions of people play that game too.
    The original Destiny was a multiplayer online game, you could group up and play in an instance with a small number of other players, in that sense it was similar to GW1, though honestly GW1 probably allowed for greater player interraction and more players per instance than Destiny allowed for.

    Hopefully Destiny 2 will allow for greater player interraction, being able to communicate with other players is a must have piece of functionality, that was largely missing from Destiny 1, the only way to communicate with other players in Destiny 1, was to form a fire team, and if you had a microphone for your PS4, you could then talk to them, outside of fireteams though there is zero communication, and to form a fireteam, well you needed on PS4 at least, a ps plus subscription etc. it was a deeply flawed system, you need as a minimum a text based system of chatting with other players, if only to give you the ability to form groups in the first place, Destiny 1 did not have this.

    Secondly, more players per instance, even if its just doubling it to 12 or so would be great, one of the reasons Destiny seemed to be so lifeless was the lack of visibility of other players, i don't particularly care if they keep those limitations on the consoles, but for PC at least i'd like to see them really open it up.

    Thirdly, content, content content, when Destiny first launched, it was ridiculously short on content, eventually they released dlc to address this, taken king,  house of wolves etc. but until then, it was barely half a game, hopefully they won't pull a stunt like that again.

    Lastly, it has to be capable of supporting 60 fps, Destiny 1 on console was only 30 fps, and for an action shooter, that isn't enough, on PC it would look and handle particularly bad, so hopefully they won't go the 30 fps route. :o
  • SalmonManSalmonMan Member UncommonPosts: 172
    My fav MMO is diablo 3 tbh.
  • strykr619strykr619 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    MMORPG still trying to push the notion that Destiny is an MMO LOL....
  • TulerezzerTulerezzer Member UncommonPosts: 15
    I still don't see how this "whatever label" game (that doesn't interest me in the least) is going to be good for the actual "MMO" genre. The writer made comparisons to wow and how it messed up the "MMO" industry and the said this is the "wow-of-the-console". The flow chart in my head leads to this being bad for the "sorta-mmo-sorta-fps-sorta-rpg" genre (or whatever you are going to call it now).
    I read the article, not gonna re-read it to parse every minute detail, but I guess I missed something?
  • ShaighShaigh Member RarePosts: 2,058


    I still don't see how this "whatever label" game (that doesn't interest me in the least) is going to be good for the actual "MMO" genre. The writer made comparisons to wow and how it messed up the "MMO" industry and the said this is the "wow-of-the-console". The flow chart in my head leads to this being bad for the "sorta-mmo-sorta-fps-sorta-rpg" genre (or whatever you are going to call it now).

    I read the article, not gonna re-read it to parse every minute detail, but I guess I missed something?


    You missed the part where it was written by bill murphy who is on a mission of hyping up destiny 2 to be the second coming of wow christ that died today so it can be resurrected as an easter bunny in three days days.
    The cynic knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,834
     I know i did not miss the part BEFORE this site posted it,that the game was not due out until end of year and even beta was due around Aug/SEP.
    So to be hyping up a game not even remotely yet in the stratosphere says one thing....either their team went and partnered with the D2 team or the D2 team came and approached them to get word out.

    Bottom line is you cannot hype something that does not exist yet in the public eye outside of simply being mentioned that it does exist.It would be BLIND hype,likely false hype.
    Obviously mixed emotions,fanbois will ALWAYS hype any game in a series they love while more heart felt reviewers like Angry Joe gave the original two thumbs down but gave a more honest opinion of D2.

    Angry joe basically said,he thinks he will not get a free copy because of his review on D1 and that he is skeptical of D2 until he sees otherwise.However he is not writing the game off because of D1,he simply states that D2 needs to show they learned and improved from D1 mistakes,or what it lacked but should have had.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,704




    Tiller said:






    @SBFord I actually did and he said it was an mmo so what exactly are you talking about? I'm not insulting anything, I'm stating the fact that it is not an mmo which the creators of the game have even said.











    MMORPG



    massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.







    "mmorpg". Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 31 Mar. 2017. <Dictionary.com http://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmorpg>.



    It fits the definition. Your personal opinion of what an MMO is means nothing.






    So Diablo 2 is a MMO?

    Ark a MMO?


    I would not consider a lobby with instances for content a "virtual world" in which you interact with massive numbers of gamers.  The lobbies are merely chat rooms for grabbing groups, with little to no content in themselves and then everyone runs into instances that are single group based and that somehow meets the definition up above?  Where is the virtual world?  They may be massively chatting, but they certainly are not massively playing the content together in a virtual world.  The way I played EQ was not even remotely the same as the way I played GW1 or Diablo III.  Labels are important, they help you identify features that you may or may not like in a game.

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938


    I still don't see how this "whatever label" game (that doesn't interest me in the least) is going to be good for the actual "MMO" genre. The writer made comparisons to wow and how it messed up the "MMO" industry and the said this is the "wow-of-the-console". The flow chart in my head leads to this being bad for the "sorta-mmo-sorta-fps-sorta-rpg" genre (or whatever you are going to call it now).

    I read the article, not gonna re-read it to parse every minute detail, but I guess I missed something?


    Just the body of it where he went over those point by point.
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938









    Tiller said:









    @SBFord I actually did and he said it was an mmo so what exactly are you talking about? I'm not insulting anything, I'm stating the fact that it is not an mmo which the creators of the game have even said.
















    MMORPG




    massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.










    "mmorpg". Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 31 Mar. 2017. <Dictionary.com http://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmorpg>.



    It fits the definition. Your personal opinion of what an MMO is means nothing.









    So Diablo 2 is a MMO?


    Ark a MMO?




    I would not consider a lobby with instances for content a "virtual world" in which you interact with massive numbers of gamers.  The lobbies are merely chat rooms for grabbing groups, with little to no content in themselves and then everyone runs into instances that are single group based and that somehow meets the definition up above?  Where is the virtual world?  They may be massively chatting, but they certainly are not massively playing the content together in a virtual world.  The way I played EQ was not even remotely the same as the way I played GW1 or Diablo III.  Labels are important, they help you identify features that you may or may not like in a game.


    The EQ, Lineage, UO, and AC were all radically different and played nothing alike yet they have the same label. The label is good for generalization and nothing more.
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    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,704

    Torval said:


    CrazKanuk said:
    I'm not saying Destiny is or is not an MMO, BUT Torval has a valid point, too. Also, if we're being fair, I'm not even sure how many players are supported in modern MMOs. Aren't games like ESO, WS, WoW, etc. broken down into instances, zones, shards, etc. all convening in hubs? I could be wrong, that's an actual literal question. 

    From a philosophical question, If Destiny said they supported 1000 players per zone and then load balanced their servers to never put more than 16 per zone, would that make them an MMO? I think it's more than players supported too.


    Zones are persistent and shared by all gamers, instances are solo / group only, reducing the MMO to MO. The massively multiple player to player interaction in a virtual world is greatly reduced in a game with one persistent hub and instances for the rest of the content. The differences in gameplay and player experience of the virtual environment between a game like GW1 and Destiny versus WoW or EQ are vast.



    I don't want games like Destiny to be painted as the new kind of MMO as that diminishes the meaning of the term as well as sets a precedent to the industry to stop catering to the true MMO audience.

    Time. Things change, mature, age, evolve. You can't stop that (outside of a spiritual discussion about time and space -- and we won't go there).

    We, as people, can filter criteria and compartmentalize down to a fine grained detail. Is anyone confusing WoW with Destiny? Although you could argue that the open world in most MMOs is just a larger insignificant lobby for instanced dungeons and raids.

    Maybe MMOs are just big lobbies. I guess size matters more to some than others. ;)


    What matters to me is the way the game plays.  The ability to play content and have others play alongside me or with me or just randomly show up or run by.  It creates a sense of a virtual world in which there is a living community around you beyond the chat window.  Where we interact with each other and the environment in ways that you cannot do in games like Destiny / GW1 / Diablo.  If the genre wants to evolve in some ways, then label it as something else instead of stealing and bastardizing the label we started off with in games like EQ, DAoC and AC.

    image
  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,704

    Torval said:















    Tiller said:












    @SBFord I actually did and he said it was an mmo so what exactly are you talking about? I'm not insulting anything, I'm stating the fact that it is not an mmo which the creators of the game have even said.





















    MMORPG





    massively multiplayer online role-playing game: any story-driven online video game in which a player, taking on the persona of a character in a virtual or fantasy world, interacts with a large number of other players.













    "mmorpg". Dictionary.com Unabridged. Random House, Inc. 31 Mar. 2017. <Dictionary.com http://www.dictionary.com/browse/mmorpg>.



    It fits the definition. Your personal opinion of what an MMO is means nothing.












    So Diablo 2 is a MMO?



    Ark a MMO?






    I would not consider a lobby with instances for content a "virtual world" in which you interact with massive numbers of gamers.  The lobbies are merely chat rooms for grabbing groups, with little to no content in themselves and then everyone runs into instances that are single group based and that somehow meets the definition up above?  Where is the virtual world?  They may be massively chatting, but they certainly are not massively playing the content together in a virtual world.  The way I played EQ was not even remotely the same as the way I played GW1 or Diablo III.  Labels are important, they help you identify features that you may or may not like in a game.




    The EQ, Lineage, UO, and AC were all radically different and played nothing alike yet they have the same label. The label is good for generalization and nothing more.


    Different content and minute differences in game mechanics, but the paradigms were the same.  Persistent virtual worlds where large numbers of players could interact with each other in every zone, through adventuring, trading, buffing, healing, competing for resources, spawns and camps....etc.

    image
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,397


    What matters to me is the way the game plays.  The ability to play content and have others play alongside me or with me or just randomly show up or run by.  It creates a sense of a virtual world in which there is a living community around you beyond the chat window.  Where we interact with each other and the environment in ways that you cannot do in games like Destiny / GW1 / Diablo.  If the genre wants to evolve in some ways, then label it as something else instead of stealing and bastardizing the label we started off with in games like EQ, DAoC and AC.


    I agree with both the new label (Shared World is my current favorite if we want to have a more 2017, all-encompassing one) and your comment about chat.

    Chat in most MMOs is actually a detriment to immersion, not just because of its typical non-game related content but because it's not usually implemented in a realistic, proximity-based way.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
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  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,366
    The MMORPG genre was DEFINED by UO, EQ ,DAOC, AO, AC and a few others ..

      All these games that literally  DEFINED the Genre and industry have one thing in common ..
     
     They all supported Thousands of players at the SAME time in the SAME persistent world ..

      
    Now if these games literrally DEFINED the genre and set the standards
    for what an MMOPRG is .. Why would anyone think Destiny 1 or 2 is an MMO
    ... .. its just not .. its multi player coop game and there is nothing
    wrong with that ..

      But  Destiny 2 will have the same effect on the MMO industry as Destiny 1 did ..

      None , Zero...not a factor just like its predesccessor

      so ....        UO------EQ------DAOC-----AO-----AC-----Destiny

                           one of these things is not like the others ..........Which is it ?
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