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Like It or Not, Destiny 2 is Good for the MMO Genre - Bill Murphy at MMORPG.com

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  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,524
    Is reading comprehension still part of the school curriculum these days?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • YumeTsukaiYumeTsukai Member UncommonPosts: 40
    laserit said:
    Is reading comprehension still part of the school curriculum these days?
    Good question!!! You might want to ask your "grammar police" friends about it - they will know. And I'm sure you guys will be getting along JUST fine! ;)
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 16,093
    laserit said:
    Is reading comprehension still part of the school curriculum these days?
    It's the age of the dumb as fuck and aggressively proud of it.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,524
    laserit said:
    Is reading comprehension still part of the school curriculum these days?
    Good question!!! You might want to ask your "grammar police" friends about it - they will know. And I'm sure you guys will be getting along JUST fine! ;)
    Nah...

    Mmm.... gai lan

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,524
    One of the main ways I can see Destiny 2 being good for the MMO genre, is by hopefully giving unaccustomed players of the genre a craving for something more. 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,444
    Nyctelios said:
    Again this. Yeah, keep mocking labels and genre definition - then complain you can't understand each other.

    If in this site or this community MMO means multiplayer online regardless the massive requirements so be it, but please don't act as if it is a supreme truth.

    For example: People here (where I live) call any type of paid driving service that is not a taxi an Uber. Is it an Uber? No it is not. Does calling it your "private uber whasapp service" will change what Uber is: No, it won't.

    Bubbles, bubbles. People living in bubbles.

    Calling your favorite post-rock band metal won't make you rad. It will just make you uninformed - since there is already a set consensus of what certain genres are.

    If you want things to change try to question those consensus and formulate better definitions... And not start to call things whatever you please.
    That's what happens to languages and words. They evolve and change. If I ask for a kleenex people don't misunderstand or look at me odd. I don't ask if the paper they're handing me is branded Kleenex.

    People use Google synonymously with searching. No one cares if you use Bing or Yahoo or whatever.

    There are a lot more examples of that too. MMO is one of those terms that is non-specific and I think a dictionary.com definition was given earlier. You should read it.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    You all missed the point. Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't matter. What matters is that it will inevitably bring more development into persistent online worlds (MMO). But keep arguing over the meaning of the acronym. We haven't done that enough these last 15 years. 
    What type of development? That's the issue.

    It's not the meaning of the acronym, it's the meaning of the gaming and environment that holds games true to the acronym. 

    So a group of developers who avoided "MMO" and PCs like a pissy park bench before are now good for the MMO genre on the sequel. Pardon me for scoffing. We'll see.
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,444
    You all missed the point. Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't matter. What matters is that it will inevitably bring more development into persistent online worlds (MMO). But keep arguing over the meaning of the acronym. We haven't done that enough these last 15 years. 
    What type of development? That's the issue.

    It's not the meaning of the acronym, it's the meaning of the gaming and environment that holds games true to the acronym. 

    So a group of developers who avoided "MMO" and PCs like a pissy park bench before are now good for the MMO genre on the sequel. Pardon me for scoffing. We'll see.
    Why wouldn't they avoid the moniker. Just look at the pretentious backlash against associating the game with mmos.

    It's good for PC mmo gamers who want more mmo in their other games and genres. It's good for gamers who love mmos and want to see more of that.

    It's not good if all you want is EQ.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • LuposDavalteLuposDavalte Member UncommonPosts: 91
    Is that bald blue guy voiced by Khary Payton from Walking Dead? (The black long haired fellow that plays King Ezekiel). I was just watching the season finale last night and thought: Damn.... this guy has to get a voice gig with all his Shakespeare in the park monologues!
  • DemogorgonDemogorgon Member UncommonPosts: 364
    edited April 2017
    Torval said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Again this. Yeah, keep mocking labels and genre definition - then complain you can't understand each other.

    If in this site or this community MMO means multiplayer online regardless the massive requirements so be it, but please don't act as if it is a supreme truth.

    For example: People here (where I live) call any type of paid driving service that is not a taxi an Uber. Is it an Uber? No it is not. Does calling it your "private uber whasapp service" will change what Uber is: No, it won't.

    Bubbles, bubbles. People living in bubbles.

    Calling your favorite post-rock band metal won't make you rad. It will just make you uninformed - since there is already a set consensus of what certain genres are.

    If you want things to change try to question those consensus and formulate better definitions... And not start to call things whatever you please.
    That's what happens to languages and words. They evolve and change. If I ask for a kleenex people don't misunderstand or look at me odd. I don't ask if the paper they're handing me is branded Kleenex.

    People use Google synonymously with searching. No one cares if you use Bing or Yahoo or whatever.

    There are a lot more examples of that too. MMO is one of those terms that is non-specific and I think a dictionary.com definition was given earlier. You should read it.
    When someone ask for a Kleenex, they are not asking for a stick, a rock or a plastic bag... They are asking for something that has the fonction of a Kleenex to wipe their nose with.

    Same principal apply for "Google it". 

    But when you use MMO for something that it isn't, it just doesn't work. Unless, to you, Green is red and yellow is brown and who cares it's just words after all. It's not like those words have specific meaning... Oh wait! They do... And you are wrong by not naming them correctly.

    What is so bad about simple Multiplayer online game that some people want to rebrand them as something they are not? Boogles the mind.

    To answer my own question I would say it has everything to do with marketing. MASSIVELY multiplayer has way more punch than just multiplayer. And thus it makes drooling marketeer use it even when it doesn't even apply... To them, it's close enough. They are like societal cancer imo. 
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited April 2017
    reminder...the game is already god before it is even in our hands,yep that is a good idea to carry forward with.
    "persistent"Ok so let's say the IDEA of a persistent world is great,it is not and everyone is doing it now,no matter let's just say it is the most amazing thing since sliced cheese.

    Until we actually see what the Destiny team does,HOW they implement the persistent idea,we cannot even remotely weigh in to say it is GOOD FOR GAMING.We pass judgment on the idea after we see what they do with the game design.
    Ask Angry Joe how he feels about D1?In his recent video he states that he thinks they are pissed at him and will likely not give him a preview copy for D2,well good for him,no sellout,we need less sellout advertising and more honest reviews.His PRE OPINION?He says he is mildly optimistic but skeptical after seeing D1,he needs to see what they do before jumping on board and that is a realistic stand to take.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • BillMurphyBillMurphy Former Managing EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 4,565
    Wizardry said:
    reminder...the game is already god before it is even in our hands,yep that is a good idea to carry forward with.
    "persistent"Ok so let's say the IDEA of a persistent world is great,it is not and everyone is doing it now,no matter let's just say it is the most amazing thing since sliced cheese.

    Until we actually see what the Destiny team does,HOW they implement the persistent idea,we cannot even remotely weigh in to say it is GOOD FOR GAMING.We pass judgment on the idea after we see what they do with the game design.
    Ask Angry Joe how he feels about D1?In his recent video he states that he thinks they are pissed at him and will likely not give him a preview copy for D2,well good for him,no sellout,we need less sellout advertising and more honest reviews.His PRE OPINION?He says he is mildly optimistic but skeptical after seeing D1,he needs to see what they do before jumping on board and that is a realistic stand to take.
    Angry Joe is not someone I'd trust when it comes to opinions - he flops more than a politican during campaign season. No one called a game god, either. Wiz, you need to read the article again.

    Try to be excellent to everyone you meet. You never know what someone else has seen or endured.

    My Review Manifesto
    Follow me on Twitter if you dare.

  • kabitoshinkabitoshin Member UncommonPosts: 853
    I'm willing to give this game a try, Destiny really was a fun game with randoms or friends.Like all MMO's you get to the loot grind and running the same content over and over. I'm excited to see what they can do with this one since it doesn't have the last gen holding the game back.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,743
    edited April 2017
    Torval said:
    You all missed the point. Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't matter. What matters is that it will inevitably bring more development into persistent online worlds (MMO). But keep arguing over the meaning of the acronym. We haven't done that enough these last 15 years. 
    What type of development? That's the issue.

    It's not the meaning of the acronym, it's the meaning of the gaming and environment that holds games true to the acronym. 

    So a group of developers who avoided "MMO" and PCs like a pissy park bench before are now good for the MMO genre on the sequel. Pardon me for scoffing. We'll see.
    Why wouldn't they avoid the moniker. Just look at the pretentious backlash against associating the game with mmos.

    It's good for PC mmo gamers who want more mmo in their other games and genres. It's good for gamers who love mmos and want to see more of that.

    It's not good if all you want is EQ.
    I must refer to you a bit about language by George Carlin. He is talking about how Shell Shocked changed into PTSD and what are the side effects of this transition. One might argue the term mmmorpg is going through the same thing and the change doesn't necessarily means anything better. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Titan Fall 2
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 21,444
    edited April 2017
    Torval said:
    You all missed the point. Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't matter. What matters is that it will inevitably bring more development into persistent online worlds (MMO). But keep arguing over the meaning of the acronym. We haven't done that enough these last 15 years. 
    What type of development? That's the issue.

    It's not the meaning of the acronym, it's the meaning of the gaming and environment that holds games true to the acronym. 

    So a group of developers who avoided "MMO" and PCs like a pissy park bench before are now good for the MMO genre on the sequel. Pardon me for scoffing. We'll see.
    Why wouldn't they avoid the moniker. Just look at the pretentious backlash against associating the game with mmos.

    It's good for PC mmo gamers who want more mmo in their other games and genres. It's good for gamers who love mmos and want to see more of that.

    It's not good if all you want is EQ.
    I must refer to you a bit about language by George Carlin. He is talking about how Shell Shocked changed into PTSD and what are the side effects of this transition. One might argue the term mmmorpg is going through the same thing and the change doesn't necessarily means anything better. 
    More like how C++ was developed from C to become a superset of the latter. That was definitely something better for a vast group of programmers and software developers.

    And that's still not the point. Bill hit the nail on the head that it doesn't even have to be an MMO for it to benefit the genre and software development money directed at it. That's a good thing.
    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,743
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Why wouldn't they avoid the moniker. Just look at the pretentious backlash against associating the game with mmos.

    It's good for PC mmo gamers who want more mmo in their other games and genres. It's good for gamers who love mmos and want to see more of that.

    It's not good if all you want is EQ.
    I must refer to you a bit about language by George Carlin. He is talking about how Shell Shocked changed into PTSD and what are the side effects of this transition. One might argue the term mmmorpg is going through the same thing and the change doesn't necessarily means anything better. 
    More like how C++ was developed from C to become a superset of the latter. That was definitely something better for a vast group of programmers and software developers.

    And that's still not the point. Bill hit the nail on the head that it doesn't even have to be an MMO for it to benefit the genre and software development money directed at it. That's a good thing.

    Well, I clicked on the wrong post to quote mate sorry! :) Let's try this again.

    Torval said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Again this. Yeah, keep mocking labels and genre definition - then complain you can't understand each other.

    If in this site or this community MMO means multiplayer online regardless the massive requirements so be it, but please don't act as if it is a supreme truth.

    For example: People here (where I live) call any type of paid driving service that is not a taxi an Uber. Is it an Uber? No it is not. Does calling it your "private uber whasapp service" will change what Uber is: No, it won't.

    Bubbles, bubbles. People living in bubbles.

    Calling your favorite post-rock band metal won't make you rad. It will just make you uninformed - since there is already a set consensus of what certain genres are.

    If you want things to change try to question those consensus and formulate better definitions... And not start to call things whatever you please.
    That's what happens to languages and words. They evolve and change. If I ask for a kleenex people don't misunderstand or look at me odd. I don't ask if the paper they're handing me is branded Kleenex.

    People use Google synonymously with searching. No one cares if you use Bing or Yahoo or whatever.

    There are a lot more examples of that too. MMO is one of those terms that is non-specific and I think a dictionary.com definition was given earlier. You should read it.
    I must refer to you a bit about language by George Carlin. He is talking about how Shell Shocked changed into PTSD and what are the side effects of this transition. One might argue the term mmmorpg is going through the same thing and the change doesn't necessarily means anything better. 

    Ok now you go again.

    Self-note: Don't drive and start an argument with @Torval

    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Titan Fall 2
  • sayuusayuu Member RarePosts: 766
    edited April 2017
    There is alot of stuff I rolled my eyes at in this article but this took the cake

    "I know many of you hate the idea of Destiny being considered an MMO. It is one. Even Bungie admits it without outright saying it by including us in all of their media invites. It may not be your cup of tea and we’d all like a larger open shared world and universe capable of supporting hundreds or thousands in one space. But this is where we are at this point in time as the genre struggles to evolve past the Warcraft paradigm."

    Short answer: Destiny is not an MMO.

    Long answer: if the entire basis of your argument is that bungie invites you to pressers therefore it must be an MMO I would suggest the people that run this site take the time to read up on logical fallacies. . . . . .also I though this site covered other games besides MMOs and has done so for quite some time. Has the site gone back to covering MMO's exclusively?


    P.S. I know many people hate the Idea that 2+2=1. It is one.
    EDIT: lastly, Having to settle for less than what was before is never a good thing. I'm talking about 3-6 player content being considered "massive" when we had games that had higher counts almost 2 decades ago. . .so what some might see as "evolving past Warcraft" I see as taking steps backwards in the genre.
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    edited April 2017
    Ha ha ha... Destiny is an MMO... HA HA HA! Hilarious! Best pre-April fools' article!

    Why the serious comments, peepz?! I can only see this is a joke, because Bill owns a site called MMORPG.com and is supposedly a very knowledgeable person on the matter. And so are quite a few people who have played mmos and most game genres and know what MMO means without even googling it :)

    Still laughing, though... 3 player "strikes" and 6 player "raids".. LMAO! Very large number of people. SIMULTANEOUSLY!!! Phew... need to catch my breath. And then I think there was someone who mentioned great HUB interactions (there is no chat, except party voice chat) so.. EMOTES IT IS LoL... and occasional inspects and random friends requests... really cracks me up!!! =)

    Maybe we can get a Diablo 3 MMO article when Diablo 4 gets announced - would be awesome!

    Pfuuu. That was fun. Unless it wasn't a joke, and then it's an insult to the website, the MMO gaming community and well... gamers in general, lol. Oh massive multiplayer online, you,...
    Destiny is not a MMO but clueless investors and publishers think it is just that. And Bill might be right, if those people connect "MMO" and "profit" again it might lead to actual MMOs getting funding again. It might of course also leads to the revamping of real MMOs to be closer to Destiny which would suck.

    But we seriously need more money invested in the genre and if clueless induhviduals invest more into actual MMOs it would be a good thing no matter what git them doing it. If they instead demand that all future MMOs should be that way we are boned.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,743
    Loke666 said:
    Ha ha ha... Destiny is an MMO... HA HA HA! Hilarious! Best pre-April fools' article!

    Why the serious comments, peepz?! I can only see this is a joke, because Bill owns a site called MMORPG.com and is supposedly a very knowledgeable person on the matter. And so are quite a few people who have played mmos and most game genres and know what MMO means without even googling it :)

    Still laughing, though... 3 player "strikes" and 6 player "raids".. LMAO! Very large number of people. SIMULTANEOUSLY!!! Phew... need to catch my breath. And then I think there was someone who mentioned great HUB interactions (there is no chat, except party voice chat) so.. EMOTES IT IS LoL... and occasional inspects and random friends requests... really cracks me up!!! =)

    Maybe we can get a Diablo 3 MMO article when Diablo 4 gets announced - would be awesome!

    Pfuuu. That was fun. Unless it wasn't a joke, and then it's an insult to the website, the MMO gaming community and well... gamers in general, lol. Oh massive multiplayer online, you,...
    Destiny is not a MMO but clueless investors and publishers think it is just that. And Bill might be right, if those people connect "MMO" and "profit" again it might lead to actual MMOs getting funding again. It might of course also leads to the revamping of real MMOs to be closer to Destiny which would suck.

    But we seriously need more money invested in the genre and if clueless induhviduals invest more into actual MMOs it would be a good thing no matter what git them doing it. If they instead demand that all future MMOs should be that way we are boned.
    You are right, it could go either way. But if we look at the scene post-WoW we learn that investors want clones. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Titan Fall 2
  • IndyolinoIndyolino Member UncommonPosts: 3
    edited April 2017
    Some people talking about destiny 2, others saying the division was an mmo and others bleehh like that and im just sitting here remembering the good times with another 255 players, thats is massive, no this bullshit, instanced, coop likely with tons of loading! I dont understand, where are the massive games like that today? Mag managed to put 256 at the same time and was the best experience i had, of course theres planetside 2 but i dont like the theme of it. Lets wait some hit this jar of gold and make millions! Ps: im playing Squad now and playerunknown battlegrounds but yet those are far way of mag
  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 6,472
    edited April 2017
    Eventhough it lacked in the story department, Destiny 1 was an amazing game! Especially if you had friends to play with! I did and we played the game non-stop for over 18 months straight!
    The gameplay was absolutely amazing, addictive and great fun!

    It's one of the best and most polished shooters out there! Bungie are among the best.

    As comparison, the shooter mechanics in The Division is a joke. (and I played this game for a couple months as well, but got fed up with the bugs and issues).
  • DragnelusDragnelus Member EpicPosts: 3,342
    JeroKane said:
    Eventhough it lacked in the story department, Destiny 1 was an amazing game! Especially if you had friends to play with! I did and we played the game non-stop for over 18 months straight!
    The gameplay was absolutely amazing, addictive and great fun!

    It's one of the best and most polished shooters out there! Bungie are among the best.

    As comparison, the shooter mechanics in The Division is a joke. (and I played this game for a couple months as well, but got fed up with the bugs and issues).
    You dont even need friends! 

    I thought I used the destiny app or forums (launch), cant remember lol.. Lots of post for LFM and LFG raiding etc made alot of new psn friends.

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Kyleran said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    Kyleran said:
    I'm all for calling Destiny games MMOs as long as that stands for "Minimally" multiplayer online game.

    Now we're on the same page. B)

    Or if it stands for Mature. Every time I pick up an MMO and spend some time in it I start to feel like, "Huh! Wow! Maybe this is it! Maybe we've gotten past that point of... " and then it happens! Someone types into General Anal [Impale] which sets off the inevitable half hour worth of head-shaking. Yes, we understand, you could put Anal in front of nearly any skill and it's hilarious. I don't think I can put my finger on when it all started, but I definitely expected it would be short-lived. Nope! It's actually lasted longer than the majority of MMOs. 

    So if that means that I only need to hear from my friends, so be it :) At least then I can selectively filter the list of people who I associate with. 
    I've never actually heard of this, not in my current game fortunately.  (no global chat is probably why)  



    Which game is that? Maybe no global is the solution, lol.

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,241
    Torval said:
    You all missed the point. Whether it's an MMO or not doesn't matter. What matters is that it will inevitably bring more development into persistent online worlds (MMO). But keep arguing over the meaning of the acronym. We haven't done that enough these last 15 years. 
    What type of development? That's the issue.

    It's not the meaning of the acronym, it's the meaning of the gaming and environment that holds games true to the acronym. 

    So a group of developers who avoided "MMO" and PCs like a pissy park bench before are now good for the MMO genre on the sequel. Pardon me for scoffing. We'll see.
    Why wouldn't they avoid the moniker. Just look at the pretentious backlash against associating the game with mmos.

    It's good for PC mmo gamers who want more mmo in their other games and genres. It's good for gamers who love mmos and want to see more of that.

    It's not good if all you want is EQ.
    Calling WoW a fighting games or calling ESO a racing game would equally bring rage from false labeling if those games did that for marketing. People don't want it called a MMO because it's not a MMO.

    image

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 7,241

    Loke666 said:
    Ha ha ha... Destiny is an MMO... HA HA HA! Hilarious! Best pre-April fools' article!

    Why the serious comments, peepz?! I can only see this is a joke, because Bill owns a site called MMORPG.com and is supposedly a very knowledgeable person on the matter. And so are quite a few people who have played mmos and most game genres and know what MMO means without even googling it :)

    Still laughing, though... 3 player "strikes" and 6 player "raids".. LMAO! Very large number of people. SIMULTANEOUSLY!!! Phew... need to catch my breath. And then I think there was someone who mentioned great HUB interactions (there is no chat, except party voice chat) so.. EMOTES IT IS LoL... and occasional inspects and random friends requests... really cracks me up!!! =)

    Maybe we can get a Diablo 3 MMO article when Diablo 4 gets announced - would be awesome!

    Pfuuu. That was fun. Unless it wasn't a joke, and then it's an insult to the website, the MMO gaming community and well... gamers in general, lol. Oh massive multiplayer online, you,...
    Destiny is not a MMO but clueless investors and publishers think it is just that. And Bill might be right, if those people connect "MMO" and "profit" again it might lead to actual MMOs getting funding again. It might of course also leads to the revamping of real MMOs to be closer to Destiny which would suck.

    But we seriously need more money invested in the genre and if clueless induhviduals invest more into actual MMOs it would be a good thing no matter what git them doing it. If they instead demand that all future MMOs should be that way we are boned.
    You are right, it could go either way. But if we look at the scene post-WoW we learn that investors want clones. 
    This is a terrible idea, because most new advertised MMO, would really be more of these lobby Dynasty Warriors Online Diablo clones rather than real MMO. Let's be real here. Which cost less to make, a 3D Graphical Diablo clone or a MMo with open world exploration with hundreds of people playing together In the same area? 

    image

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