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Some hopes

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  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,200
    edited April 2017

    Scorchien said:
    Dullahan said:
    Scorchien said:
    Dullahan said:
    laserit said:
    I loved the old school days when the only map you had, was the physical one that came with the game.

    I'd like to see a map that looks hand drawn and starts very vaguely. As you explore the world it fills in more detail of the places you have been. No GPS

    You can't stop people from looking things up on the net, but that shouldn't stop developers from creating that immersive experience, for the ones that want to discover things the old fashioned way. 
    That same principle tied to a mapping or cartography tradeskill would be amazing.

    I've proposed this before in other places, but imagine this. The cartographer goes through a low level, less dangerous zone mapping. He or she uses crude tools, basic inks, and cheap parchment to survey the area. The end result is a very generic map, and a few skill points in the Cartography skill. After doing this in low level zones several times, the skill caps for that type of area. To continue gaining skill, the cartographer has to venture out into more dangerous places.

    As the cartography skill goes up, they are able to use better tools, better inks or colors, and higher quality parchment (much of which could come from other tradeskills). This allows them to create better maps of zones, including the earlier areas they mapped at lower levels.

    Each map would have a material cost, and would become bound to a players mapbook to keep demand for those products. At a high skill level (perhaps max), the cartographer could gain the ability to create a copy of a map, but each copy would be somewhat less exact and pristine than the original. Maps could even fade or degrade after long periods of time, giving players a reason to buy new ones. All of these things give value to the cartography trade.
    Except .. 6 months after realease every square inch of the land mass will mapped and online for anyone to get for free
    Except, that will require people constantly loading those maps, devoting extra monitors or alt-tabbing rather than simply being able to pull them up in-game using a single hotkey.
    Lotsa of gamers have an extar monitor now , just for that , or a laptop or an ipad or a phone for that matter ... I dont see any Smart dev dedicated resources to developing a throw away skill
    No way.  You cannot develop a game with the expectation of your users having a 2nd monitor.  Some might.  Not enough to expect it though.  And looking up maps on a phone?  absurd
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,347
    deniter said:
    Daft said:
    I was playing p1999 the other day and I came to the realization that, Everquest is the only MMO that I dont have my face planted in a map. I think not having a map made EQ feel like a real world to me. I didnt realize it at the time but i do now. I respect the fact that I can get on p1999 and know where im going like I was in my own city. My point is that If pantheon adds a M button, I really hope it just brings a plain map up but doesn't show your location.

    I read someplace that they are using EQ classic combat. I loved getting duel wield, and double attack. I liked that when i got those skills i sucked at them, then I got better with use. Same with magic and fizzles .

    Last but not least. My favorite part of everquest was twinking!  I understand some stuff having level restrictions, but I really hope we get twinking back with pantheon.

    IM Drunk



    Drunk or not, it's a good idea !


    I can't wait to see a large amount of young people embracing this game too :)
    Most young people have the attention span of a gnat.  You are living in a delusion if you think they'll be coming in legions for this game.  I want this game to get made and I will try it.  But you need to get a reality check and realize this game will be niche at best.


    To be honest, most young people don't play MMOs or RPGs in general even if they played some form of video games.

    We're not trying to break records here, just waiting for a nice game for those who play MMOs and still think the RPG part should be included in MMORPG.
    I think what you meant is that young people don't play traditional mmos.  MMOs on consoles, especially newer ones like Destiny and The Division is very populated by younger gamers.  My point was just that this type of mmo is not the next WoW and people like Delete need to stop trying to push that narrative on every Pantheon thread.  Realistic expectations will help this mmo more than fantasy.
    Yep, that's pretty much what i meant. Thank you! :)
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,305
    svann said:

    Scorchien said:
    Dullahan said:
    Scorchien said:
    Dullahan said:
    laserit said:
    I loved the old school days when the only map you had, was the physical one that came with the game.

    I'd like to see a map that looks hand drawn and starts very vaguely. As you explore the world it fills in more detail of the places you have been. No GPS

    You can't stop people from looking things up on the net, but that shouldn't stop developers from creating that immersive experience, for the ones that want to discover things the old fashioned way. 
    That same principle tied to a mapping or cartography tradeskill would be amazing.

    I've proposed this before in other places, but imagine this. The cartographer goes through a low level, less dangerous zone mapping. He or she uses crude tools, basic inks, and cheap parchment to survey the area. The end result is a very generic map, and a few skill points in the Cartography skill. After doing this in low level zones several times, the skill caps for that type of area. To continue gaining skill, the cartographer has to venture out into more dangerous places.

    As the cartography skill goes up, they are able to use better tools, better inks or colors, and higher quality parchment (much of which could come from other tradeskills). This allows them to create better maps of zones, including the earlier areas they mapped at lower levels.

    Each map would have a material cost, and would become bound to a players mapbook to keep demand for those products. At a high skill level (perhaps max), the cartographer could gain the ability to create a copy of a map, but each copy would be somewhat less exact and pristine than the original. Maps could even fade or degrade after long periods of time, giving players a reason to buy new ones. All of these things give value to the cartography trade.
    Except .. 6 months after realease every square inch of the land mass will mapped and online for anyone to get for free
    Except, that will require people constantly loading those maps, devoting extra monitors or alt-tabbing rather than simply being able to pull them up in-game using a single hotkey.
    Lotsa of gamers have an extar monitor now , just for that , or a laptop or an ipad or a phone for that matter ... I dont see any Smart dev dedicated resources to developing a throw away skill
    No way.  You cannot develop a game with the expectation of your users having a 2nd monitor.  Some might.  Not enough to expect it though.  And looking up maps on a phone?  absurd
    ive done it before in everquest, you just alt+tab. even if you can simply look up maps online it's nowhere near as good as having them in game with GPS.

    IMO they could make a map maker skill  and make editing the map in game impossible unless you have that skill or possibly maps are bought in game from other players with the skill.


  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    I think the only real way to actually make a map skill that would "stick" is to make it more interactive.  If it's just a static map system, then people will simply find what they want on the web, etc.
    You could even piggyback the static map cartography system.

    Ex. ---------------
    Cartographer A makes maps, and everyone who owns a "Made by Cartographer A" map gets "live"(quotes because literal live updates would be a nightmare)  updates on their map(think basic enemy/node info, weather report, etc.)

    Updates to the map could happen based on someone being physically present and  "spotting" in that area.
    So, whichever map maker had the best "Scout" network would have the most interactive, up-to-date maps.

    Maps showing that a boss is up in a distant zone or a rare named is up, locations of current rare ore nodes, etc. would certainly give people a reason to prefer an in-game map.
    Obviously, a system like that would have great economic and business impact as well.
    --------------------
    I realize Pantheon isn't going to do anything that complex and involved, but the point is that the only way in-game maps would be preferred, overall, is if they actually had some in-game advantage over what you'd find on the web.

    If the in-game map were the same as the web map, it'd certainly be more convenient to hit a button and view the in-game map without having to open a browser or whatever, but I have to agree with some folks that it might not be worth development time in the long run to bother with cartography skills, etc..
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Lokero said:
    I think the only real way to actually make a map skill that would "stick" is to make it more interactive.  If it's just a static map system, then people will simply find what they want on the web, etc.
    You could even piggyback the static map cartography system.

    Ex. ---------------
    Cartographer A makes maps, and everyone who owns a "Made by Cartographer A" map gets "live"(quotes because literal live updates would be a nightmare)  updates on their map(think basic enemy/node info, weather report, etc.)

    Updates to the map could happen based on someone being physically present and  "spotting" in that area.
    So, whichever map maker had the best "Scout" network would have the most interactive, up-to-date maps.

    Maps showing that a boss is up in a distant zone or a rare named is up, locations of current rare ore nodes, etc. would certainly give people a reason to prefer an in-game map.
    Obviously, a system like that would have great economic and business impact as well.
    --------------------
    I realize Pantheon isn't going to do anything that complex and involved, but the point is that the only way in-game maps would be preferred, overall, is if they actually had some in-game advantage over what you'd find on the web.

    If the in-game map were the same as the web map, it'd certainly be more convenient to hit a button and view the in-game map without having to open a browser or whatever, but I have to agree with some folks that it might not be worth development time in the long run to bother with cartography skills, etc..
    Good points.. 

    I think the easiest way to handle this for all parties is a map like many games in Morrowind's age had. Either blacked out or generic overall land mass shape that fills in the details as you move along.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 7,774
    All I know is 3rd party sites will love the money no maps will make them. There will be lots of clicks to be fought over. I'm sure people have plans on how to capitalize on this. 



  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    edited April 2017
    Distopia said:
    Good points.. 

    I think the easiest way to handle this for all parties is a map like many games in Morrowind's age had. Either blacked out or generic overall land mass shape that fills in the details as you move along.
    Or, they could have an artist create numerous variants of each map ranging from crude to precise detail. A player's map would start like other maps with fog of war, then instead of merely uncovering an area and it becoming a perfect finished map, it "levels up" becoming more accurate the more often you visit.

    If they were to include maps, I still think having a cartographer skill involved is better. There are a lot of people who would enjoy scouring zones and mapping as a trade. Trades are a great way for interaction and creating a living world, and it's a shame to neglect those opportunities.


  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Dullahan said:
    Distopia said:
    Good points.. 

    I think the easiest way to handle this for all parties is a map like many games in Morrowind's age had. Either blacked out or generic overall land mass shape that fills in the details as you move along.
    Or, they could have an artist create numerous variants of each map ranging from crude to precise detail. A player's map would start like other maps with fog of war, then instead of merely uncovering an area and it becoming a perfect finished map, it "levels up" becoming more accurate the more often you visit.

    If they were to include maps, I still think having a cartographer skill involved is better. There are a lot of people who would enjoy scouring zones and mapping as a trade. Trades are a great way for interaction and creating a living world, and it's a shame to neglect those opportunities.
    A heck of a lot of work for a trivial amount of benefit. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Dullahan said:
    Distopia said:
    Good points.. 

    I think the easiest way to handle this for all parties is a map like many games in Morrowind's age had. Either blacked out or generic overall land mass shape that fills in the details as you move along.
    Or, they could have an artist create numerous variants of each map ranging from crude to precise detail. A player's map would start like other maps with fog of war, then instead of merely uncovering an area and it becoming a perfect finished map, it "levels up" becoming more accurate the more often you visit.

    If they were to include maps, I still think having a cartographer skill involved is better. There are a lot of people who would enjoy scouring zones and mapping as a trade. Trades are a great way for interaction and creating a living world, and it's a shame to neglect those opportunities.
    My only real concern about that is many players overvalue the worth of their "work". Which is fine for things like gear, but I'd rather not see greed get in the way of QOL features like maps. Which in my experience from SWG it most likely would. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,412
    Fuck it I'd prefer sense heading, them rusty swords came in handy. 

    For those who never played EQ, sense heading was a kind of compass system that wasn't always right but added that realism to the game. 

    You could get lost and find yourself waking up with no corspe if not careful, ah what fun. 

    The thing in EQ was you could drop items on the ground and they would stay in the world just like elder scrolls games. 

    So if you were not sure you could leave a trail using rusty items to help ya. 

    Great fun. 




  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,516
    Dullahan said:
    Distopia said:
    Good points.. 

    I think the easiest way to handle this for all parties is a map like many games in Morrowind's age had. Either blacked out or generic overall land mass shape that fills in the details as you move along.
    Or, they could have an artist create numerous variants of each map ranging from crude to precise detail. A player's map would start like other maps with fog of war, then instead of merely uncovering an area and it becoming a perfect finished map, it "levels up" becoming more accurate the more often you visit.

    If they were to include maps, I still think having a cartographer skill involved is better. There are a lot of people who would enjoy scouring zones and mapping as a trade. Trades are a great way for interaction and creating a living world, and it's a shame to neglect those opportunities.
    A heck of a lot of work for a trivial amount of benefit. 
    It's really not a lot of work at all. Such a system could be coded in a matter of days, if not in a single day. The art side could be the artist using original sketches of maps for the first map, then a couple more detailed version for the leveled up versions.


  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,384
    The whole thing with maps and spoiler sites is that dynamic generation of world content is necessary to combat the spoiler sites.  No game in the immediate future is exploring the possibility of dynamic content generation.  Developers are going to continue to rely on their art teams to build those photo-realistic areas for everyone to roam through.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,163
    Spoiler Sites:

    The killer of immersion.

    The scourge of virtual worlds.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,200
    edited April 2017
    Spoiler sites are necessary to eq1 because so many quests are buggy or ridiculously illogical. Some of those quests would never be figured out except that some beta testers got the code phrases to /say to the npc and then passed the info on - to the spoiler site.  Now hopefully this game wont be like that.  Im certainly wishing in one hand.
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