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Tell Why You Find Grinding Fun

nerovergilnerovergil Member UncommonPosts: 680
Healthy grinds was not more than 1 hour a day.

1. To see my character using cool looking abilities/skills to defeat mobs

2. Character progressions from not learning skills to learning various skills everytime leveling

3. Relaxing. Grinding while hearing your fav music. I prefer relaxed play thats why i like tab target.
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Comments

  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,212
    edited March 2017
    Nope,the time doesn't matter to me,1 hour or 5 hours just matters on how tired i feel.Well sorry your points 1/2 are correct and 3 is partially correct,i do like to feel relaxed,only fps's get me into ADD mode.

    I pick a game i just find fun to play,i don't call fun a grind.

    Grind is for SHALLOW games where players ONLY care about racing to end game as fast as possible,hence grind if that takes too long.

    I wouldn't care if level 1>2 took 2 months,as long as there was content and reasoning in the design build.Usually these games carry very little meaning,it is almost always linear questing designed to get you from level 1 to max level with no care about immersion,realism or why the world even exists.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • redneckgamerredneckgamer Member UncommonPosts: 52
    For me I used to enjoy grinding in DAoC because there was always the chance that the mobs you were grinding could randomly drop a really good piece of gear.  also, sometimes while grinding a rare named mob would spawn and give great gear as well.  It was the most efficient way to level but it was exciting because you always had that drive that the next mob may drop some awesome gear or weapon.

    also, in that game since dungeons had a level range, grinding mobs at the start of the dungeon meant you were progressing toward higher levels so you could explore deeper into the dungeon.  

    I definitely wouldn't have had as much fun if it had just been xp and nothing else.  I don't enjoy grinding now like I used to though
  • GrimulaGrimula Member UncommonPosts: 577

    Grinding levels in Lineage 2 was Very fun  When the game was Brand new ,


    Reason it was fun was because it was DANGEROUS , you could get pked / Pick a fight with people Ect ect Chance to drop your gear on PVP deaths if you turned red

    your Adrenaline was always Pumping in a Grind group Because of the Danger of Other people coming to Hunt you down

    Or the other way around , waiting for people to go Grinding in hard zones and Hunting them down

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Member RarePosts: 2,995
    I actually find in a lot of game the quest grind is more annoying than just grinding mobs.  I switch back and forth a bit.  That was when you could get a good drop randomly but with low change.  That was always amazing :)   DAoC and WoW used to be fun to grind sometimes.  If that is all there is to do then - no thanks.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • sunandshadowsunandshadow Member RarePosts: 1,985
    My favorite kind of grind is where you are doing some kind of experiment, and to follow the scientific method you have to try all the possible combinations or approaches one after the other, and take notes on the results.  Generally this is a pet breeding, alchemy/potions, cooking, or other crafting grind.  If you are trying to write walkthrough or wiki material you might also find yourself fighting the same type of monster over and over, testing which elements or damage types or status ailments they are vulnerable to, and what their loot tables look like.

    Other than that I also enjoy channeling XP into something like a materia or a mount, and I like collecting up piles of wood and bricks to craft a house, or dye to customize my clothes, or cloth and stuff to craft a costume.
    I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story.  So PM me if you are starting one.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,228
    If I really really enjoy the combat system, then I don't mind it so much.  Age of Conan is about the only game that I enjoyed grinding.  The combat is so damn fun, and the fatalities are the perfect cherry on top.

    Also, I don't mind doing the same things over and over as long as I have friends and alcohol.  I've spent 12 hours with the same people farming the same 5-6 dungeons in a row and we had a blast.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,781
    If the combat is good and the mobs don't swarm, it can be very relaxing.  Some MMO's it was mandatory.  Fetch 5 gold coins that drop from killing rats, only you get a coin drop for every 100 rats you kill.   Or quests that ended at level 20 and the next ones started at level 60.  Or bonus xp for killing 200 more of something beyond what the quest needed.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • HeretiqueHeretique Member RarePosts: 1,494
    I consider it training in case there is a hell in the afterlife.

    I'll be ready.
  • VardahothVardahoth Member RarePosts: 1,472
    edited March 2017
    Putting time and work into my characters and watch them growing stronger with progression gives this rewarding feeling you could never get with instant gratification.

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • cameltosiscameltosis Member EpicPosts: 2,146
    So, the term "grind" means doing a repetitive task that isn't fun. So, by its definition, a grind cannot be fun. 

    However, there are certainly repetitive tasks that I do find fun (which I guess is the point of the OP) so I'll list them out here. 

    1) Optimisation of player skill

    This is one of the primary reasons I find repetitive combat tasks fun, like mob grinding. It becomes a personal challenge to become the best I can possibly be at playing my character. So, I might start off only being able to kill one mob at a time. As I get better, I start being able to kill 2 or 3 at a time. Then I get better at resource management, so I can move from group to group with less downtime. Then I can start soloing elites / mini-bosses etc. 

    This is only really possible in games which have decent depth to their combat system. LotRO used to be very good at this. It had the deepest combat system of any game I've played and no dps meters or similar, so it took a long time to fully master a class, both solo and in groups. 

    2) Social Fun

    I love grouping up with mates to take on content. When you play together enough, you really get to know each others playstyles so it makes the content really enjoyable to play through, then you have all the social aspects on top so you have a laugh and a joke on vent, discuss current issues, share your joys and stuff. Nearly every day I'd end up doing group content with guild members, even though I'd done it 100s of times before and would get no game reward for doing so, just because it is fun doing it with friends.

    3) Rewards

    Character progression is a big motivation for me, building on my desire to be the absolute best I can be. If the rewards are sufficiently good then I can overlook the grind because I'm happy that I'm working towards a character improvement, such as a new piece of gear, a new skill or whatever. 

    4) Relaxation

    Some repetitive tasks are sufficiently easy and combine with other interesting aspects that it becomes relaxing. Leveling up in SWG is a good example. The combat lacked depth and the mob grinding for xp was very repetitive, but it was so easy that I didn't mind doing it because I simply enjoyed living in the world of Star Wars. I'd happily go grind mobs on Endor for 3 hours solo, simply because it was a beautiful world that I enjoyed being in. It was a relaxing process. 
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,067
    edited March 2017
    I guess people are wired differently. Take the ARPGs like Diablo 3,Path of Exile and Grim Dawn. When I play these games I avoid as much as possible if I can help it from going back to any of the areas I have cleared because years ago when I play Diablo 2 I had no idea about the respawning thing and kept traversing the same areas and I got so tired of killing in the same areas that I quit the game which was so stupid. I found out later and played it correctly and the game was awesome. I was not aware of how these games worked that you had to grind and get better gear and then tackle harder difficulties.

    For me I cannot fathom going back and redoing all that content and grind on harder difficulties and yet that is the very cornerstone and design these games rely upon to draw the player in. I would just play it on the difficulty I am comfortable with and then finish the game actually more often than not  finish it and never go back rather than to try to grind for items to try the harder difficulties.

    Why you must wonder would I play these games then if I dislike grinding and trying to get the better gear to play other classes and builds. In fact the pages and pages of forum posts on these games discussing builds and items you need to tackle are simply staggering in its volumes and time spent in testing and refining the builds. That is a passion that is bewildering to me but one I can respect because it is so consummate. I however play because occasionally I do enjoy the mind numbing killing and picking up loot that has a strange soothing effect and the story is a bonus if it is good.

    When you play MMORPGs and come across the need to camp certain mobs so that you can get a certain drop in a dungeon you are essentially doing the very same thing although you might be playing in a group and therefore in competition with other dastardly members in the same group for the items you seek you are basically doing what the ARPG goals are which is to get better items so that you might progress to a higher level dungeon or encounter that require the upgrade in gear and resists.

    It seems more acceptable in an MMORPG to grind because when you progress it often opens out other dungeons however if the same set up is then to grind there, you can see where I am going with this it can wear one down. So grinding can be  in many ways acceptable but it depends on the individual and achieving the correct balance seems dependent on both design and goals. If you do not vary the places you grind and goals you want to achieve you might drive away the players see FFXIV for an example of this.

    All in all at present grinding has not been a design many games want to wander too far away from as it diminishes the attachment players have for the games they play.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,399
    edited March 2017
    In EQ grinding really helped you figure out and play your class well. Vanguard was the same and practically old the older mmo's. 

    Now days grinding is just rolling over easy mobs, nothing hard or special about. I remember making my way to Crystal Caverns in the eastern wastes and having to make my way down to the little town and finding sweet spot to grind crystals spiders. 

    I use to levi down once I sussed it. Grinding hill giants on my Wizard is where I first learned to kite. 

    Going deep into a dungeons knowing I'm to far away from the entrance if something goes wrong, after a few days I've learnt my way around so I know the safe spots. 

    You just don't get that in so called mmo's today like ESO or GW2. 

    Last mmo I played like that was Vanguard, I lasted 7 years. 

    Roll on Pantheon and the grind. 
    Post edited by SavageHorizon on




  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 6,944
    If the loot is interesting and you move around a little bit exploring then it isnt grinding...If youre standing in one spot killing mobs mindlessly for hours with no gain other than levels then it isnt fun.....IMO questing isnt fun either, especially when you dont do a single thing and get easy quest XP.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,399
    If the loot is interesting and you move around a little bit exploring then it isnt grinding...If youre standing in one spot killing mobs mindlessly for hours with no gain other than levels then it isnt fun.....IMO questing isnt fun either, especially when you dont do a single thing and get easy quest XP.

    For you but I suspect many really don't mind it, I endlessly grinded hill giants and phase spiders in EQ amongst other mobs and liked it. 

    Everyone is different. 




  • PagoasPagoas Member UncommonPosts: 120
    Grinding is like feeding quarters into a slot machine.  You might get a lights-flashing, bell-dinging jackpot (i.e., a good drop) that'll reward your impulse-control disorder, but more likely you'll just get a butt rash from sitting in one place too long, haunting regret for your wasted time... and a dearth of quarters.

    image
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    Grimula said:

    Grinding levels in Lineage 2 was Very fun  When the game was Brand new ,


    Reason it was fun was because it was DANGEROUS , you could get pked / Pick a fight with people Ect ect Chance to drop your gear on PVP deaths if you turned red

    your Adrenaline was always Pumping in a Grind group Because of the Danger of Other people coming to Hunt you down

    Or the other way around , waiting for people to go Grinding in hard zones and Hunting them down

    I do agree that grinding in L2 was fun but not for the same reasons. Truth be told I don't like Adrenaline pumping.

    I enjoy grinding, and grinding quickly non-stop because it's relaxing, I like mowing things down quickly, perhaps a glass of wine or beer while I do it, listen to music, etc.

    At the moment I play Black Desert and I really like having the large groups of mobs and fast re-spawns of certain areas.

    I also like "doing things" as opposed to quest games that don't require much of you other than you run to the glowing bits, do something for 5 seconds then rinse and repeat. That just feels like running around and it's not fun.



  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,341
    I couldn't grind for just getting experience or a random drop, but having a goal that is guaranteed after the grind does make it even great experience, no matter how long the grind takes.

    I grinded 8 hours a day for one month to get the winterspring frostsaber mount in vanilla wow, and it was an awesome feeling when i finally got it. Pretty much the same for grinding crafting mats for a piece of gear you really, really want.

    Grinding has to have a purpose to make it fun gaming experience, else it's just a mindless and boring activity that makes a game look bad and badly designed.
  • MensurMensur Member RarePosts: 827
    weed and monotonous grind is the best combo! especially if you look forward to the endgame! 

    “Do not be so open-minded that your brains fall out.”


    ― G.K. Chesterton
  • KilrainKilrain Member RarePosts: 1,177
    The only part about a "grind" in a game that I don't like is when it separates players. My brother exploded past me in EQ1 and we never were able to really play together outside of him power leveling me on occasion.

    I could play a game for 10 years, never reach "max" and have a blast if I could always play with my friends. In fact I prefer not to rush through content, because once you've done it all that's when things can begin to feel stale.

  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    For me grinding was fun in a number of various games from Nintendo games up to MMORPGs like UO and EQ.  It was something I could do on my own that required time and patience.  It also gave me an excuse to avoid other people who were always arguing, demeaning others, drinking, or smoking when I was growing up.  I felt like I was better off outside of society.  Eventually, I felt like society was better off without me lol spending a lot of time alone grinding and being unhealthy in general had a very negative impact on my attitude.  I don't generally grind these days, but I still spend a lot of time playing games and watching documentaries.  Grinding is a bit too taxing on me.  Sometimes you can enjoy something and it is still bad for you if overindulged.  It depends on how much you enjoy the activity and if you feel it's worth it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,282
    edited March 2017
    So, the term "grind" means doing a repetitive task that isn't fun. So, by its definition, a grind cannot be fun. 

    However, there are certainly repetitive tasks that I do find fun (which I guess is the point of the OP) so I'll list them out here. 

    1) Optimisation of player skill

    This is one of the primary reasons I find repetitive combat tasks fun, like mob grinding. It becomes a personal challenge to become the best I can possibly be at playing my character. So, I might start off only being able to kill one mob at a time. As I get better, I start being able to kill 2 or 3 at a time. Then I get better at resource management, so I can move from group to group with less downtime. Then I can start soloing elites / mini-bosses etc. 

    This is only really possible in games which have decent depth to their combat system. LotRO used to be very good at this. It had the deepest combat system of any game I've played and no dps meters or similar, so it took a long time to fully master a class, both solo and in groups. 

    2) Social Fun

    I love grouping up with mates to take on content. When you play together enough, you really get to know each others playstyles so it makes the content really enjoyable to play through, then you have all the social aspects on top so you have a laugh and a joke on vent, discuss current issues, share your joys and stuff. Nearly every day I'd end up doing group content with guild members, even though I'd done it 100s of times before and would get no game reward for doing so, just because it is fun doing it with friends.

    3) Rewards

    Character progression is a big motivation for me, building on my desire to be the absolute best I can be. If the rewards are sufficiently good then I can overlook the grind because I'm happy that I'm working towards a character improvement, such as a new piece of gear, a new skill or whatever. 

    4) Relaxation

    Some repetitive tasks are sufficiently easy and combine with other interesting aspects that it becomes relaxing. Leveling up in SWG is a good example. The combat lacked depth and the mob grinding for xp was very repetitive, but it was so easy that I didn't mind doing it because I simply enjoyed living in the world of Star Wars. I'd happily go grind mobs on Endor for 3 hours solo, simply because it was a beautiful world that I enjoyed being in. It was a relaxing process. 
    Too much of a "grind" to type out my list of reasons but since I agree with all of yours I'll just leech XP. ;)

    Having just completed the "grind" to 50 on my first character on the old school DAOC freeshard I can share some recent thoughts.

    Took me around 2.5 months to reach 50 and Legendary Grand Master Tailor at 1117 pts.

    This also included earning enough gold to pay for all the crafting and my PVP template set which I wrapped up last night.

    So he's basically done (unless I opt to respec) with around 22 days played.

    Did I enjoy it? Well at times it was a bit annoying, not the grind itself, but because my friends and I could not effectively PVP until these prerequisites were completed. (they are still a few weeks away from being done.)

    I am a casual player (who played a bit more than normal) and by no means optimized my leveling.

    There are many who could have created 2 or more characters in the same time played but my friends and I play for the pleasure of each other's company.

    Several of them would have beat me to 50 if not holding back and playing alts so as to let some folks catch up or not be left behind. (like me)

    So yes, I did enjoy it and tonight if they don't need my help I'll be starting all over again on two alts I have been waiting to try.

    I only limit myself to one character on the first go around until I reach cap and have a PVP ready character

    B)

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,840
    Raging Demons for all flowchart "Kens". This is a metaphor.
  • ikcinikcin Member RarePosts: 2,205
    edited March 2017
    Healthy grinds was not more than 1 hour a day.

    1. To see my character using cool looking abilities/skills to defeat mobs

    2. Character progressions from not learning skills to learning various skills everytime leveling

    3. Relaxing. Grinding while hearing your fav music. I prefer relaxed play thats why i like tab target.


    Honestly, it is not fun. The word fun is simply controversial to the word grind. But it is addictive. A simple safe (it should be safe and sound, if the mobs are challenging, it is not grind), repetitive action, with 100% guaranteed reward (it is just a mater of time). You do not have fun with the grind. And I believe you are not an idiot to feel excitement by repetition of few combat animations hundreds and thousands of times. The character progression is a part of the guaranteed reward, as the drop too. And for both you do not need grind.

    But it is relaxing, making you feel secured, by any meaning this is not fun. You do not laugh with pleasure when you grind. But you feel safe and you feel how your efforts are rewarded. It is a terrible brainwashing technic, that never should be used into the games.

    It takes just three weeks to form a new behavior, but the impact on your brain could last a lifetime. It affects the basal ganglia – the part of the brain involved in motivation and reward, which plays a key role in compulsive behaviours including drug addiction. 

    The mechanism is very simple - you must repeat your actions over and over again, it is a safe behavior, and you know it will be rewarded. The moment you stop grinding is more interesting, as the mobs beat your character (like if the wife calls you for something) or other player attacks you, or simply you log off. In every case you get the feeling of loss. So every time when you stop grinding you are punished. That is how the grind becomes very addictive. There is nothing healthy with the grind.

    And do not get me wrong, as every MMORPG player, I'm addicted to the grind. But the knowledge how it actually works helped me to realize I do not needed it. Now, honestly I enjoy the grind, when I play a game, but definitely it is not a reason to choose any game. If it gives me only grind, I simply do not play it.

    Post edited by ikcin on
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 26,793
    um, but "Donut!"



  • CaffynatedCaffynated Member RarePosts: 508
    It really depends on the game type. I find grinding in BDO difficult because of how active it is and how tiring and uncomfortable it can be on your hands. It's why most of my sessions are 30-60 minutes after which I need to take a break and do something else. Especially since the awakenings came out I've had to cut back as APM has shot up.

    Contrast that with EQ where you could play for hours because it was relaxing, didn't require a lot of rapid actions and was mostly about making good decisions so it was mentally engaging (At least as a paladin and wizard main, there were some braindead classes). With the pace of combat, the downtime and the natural pauses between pulls, you had plenty of time to just hang out with your friends, talk, distribute loot, roll dice or whatever else you felt like.
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