Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Guild Wars 2 - The Pros and Cons of a DPS Meter - MMORPG.com

SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,126
edited March 2017 in News & Features Discussion

imageGuild Wars 2 - The Pros and Cons of a DPS Meter - MMORPG.com

For a long time, third party programs in Guild Wars 2 have been taboo of sort, with anything that reads the game’s memory being a straight up ban for anyone who uses it. Overlays, and some helpful add ons have been around for a while to make life easier, but the biggest place this hit was in trying to measure DPS. Recently, ArenaNet have made an exception in this case, allowing DPS meters to be a part of the game.

Read the full story here



¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


«13

Comments

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member EpicPosts: 10,241
    As a primarily PvP player, DPS meters don't mean much to me.  They don't change much in the way of PvP.. and honestly, despite how limited the builds are for each class to be fairly viable in PvP are, I wished PvE was more like PvP.

    In PvP the highest DPS spec doesn't win, and really the best teams are a mix of moderate builds, or at least builds that have inherent defense mechanics.  The unpredictability of team performance is what makes it enjoyable.

    I can easily put out a ton of damage in PvE, how much? I have no idea.  Since I rarely play PvE in group settings these days, I usually focus on similar platforms as I do with PvP, which is, balance.  Too much DPS and you die much more, but not enough damage and you could fail events (especially when soloing champions).



  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 8,863


    As a primarily PvP player, DPS meters don't mean much to me.  They don't change much in the way of PvP.. and honestly, despite how limited the builds are for each class to be fairly viable in PvP are, I wished PvE was more like PvP.

    In PvP the highest DPS spec doesn't win, and really the best teams are a mix of moderate builds, or at least builds that have inherent defense mechanics.  The unpredictability of team performance is what makes it enjoyable.

    I can easily put out a ton of damage in PvE, how much? I have no idea.  Since I rarely play PvE in group settings these days, I usually focus on similar platforms as I do with PvP, which is, balance.  Too much DPS and you die much more, but not enough damage and you could fail events (especially when soloing champions).



    I agree with that last part. Too much DPS and you die much more, but not enough damage and you could fail events. I also take a balanced approach but I do mostly PvE content.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • RadooRadoo Member UncommonPosts: 279
    How can something so popular and highly requested be a taboo topic?
    This is what bothers me about the development of Guilds Wars 2 and the decisions the developers take. They have never been about what players want or request, in the forums or with specific feedback requests. It has been the same years ago, shortly after the release and it's still the case today. Oddly enough the developers make changes to accommodate e-sports requests that impact the game for everyone - so is the case with projectiles from auto-attacks (1st skill in most cases).

    My most hated thing about this game is how blind the developers are towards what their players want. These dps meters have been long asked for and since ArenaNet refuses to add them, players have to resort to 3rd party tools that may endanger the safety of their accounts. Such meters may prove useful to raiding guilds while at times it may even be a thing of preference. Why can't the developrs accommodate such requests is beyond me. Either way and regardless of the outcome of this I've learnt that Guild Wars is no longer the game for me, mainly because of its development.
  • JudgeUKJudgeUK Member RarePosts: 1,489
    Maskedweasel - I can understand that and the more skill based a challenge is the better.
    The issue with some pve challenges is when the developers have run out of ideas a bit, and simply gone for a dps race against a timer. Then it's purely down to has everyone got a big enough hammer.

    I'm not a fan of dps meters - it doesn't tend to affect me directly as I play healers - but I've seen too many elitist trolls to ever get to like them.

    It's the same old story I'm afraid. They can be a useful tool for gauging how you're doing, but too often (as in 99% of the time), they are just used as ammo to hurl abuse around in game chat channels.
  • botrytisbotrytis Member RarePosts: 2,929
    edited March 2017

    Radoo said:

    How can something so popular and highly requested be a taboo topic?

    This is what bothers me about the development of Guilds Wars 2 and the decisions the developers take. They have never been about what players want or request, in the forums or with specific feedback requests. It has been the same years ago, shortly after the release and it's still the case today. Oddly enough the developers make changes to accommodate e-sports requests that impact the game for everyone - so is the case with projectiles from auto-attacks (1st skill in most cases).



    My most hated thing about this game is how blind the developers are towards what their players want. These dps meters have been long asked for and since ArenaNet refuses to add them, players have to resort to 3rd party tools that may endanger the safety of their accounts. Such meters may prove useful to raiding guilds while at times it may even be a thing of preference. Why can't the developrs accommodate such requests is beyond me. Either way and regardless of the outcome of this I've learnt that Guild Wars is no longer the game for me, mainly because of its development.



    DPS Meters are tools of the elitist players. I have played games with players using them and in 90% of them use it to discriminate against other players.

    In GW2, DPS meters would not measure the biggest impact damage in the game, namely conditions.

    To me, DPS METERS are useless. In GW2, many of the world bosses have to be killed with a mix of condi and physical damage. Also, some of the the condi will be different depending on the buffs (food and other types) so why would a DPS meter be useful? People can test their builds in the PvP lobby against various golems there. Done - don't need no DPS meter.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,418
    DPS meters are used as an exclusion device rather than an inclusion one.
    image
  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    I find that some players lose focus on what is going on around them and sit there staring at meters telling players they arent doing their job properly or are slacking. This is particularly annoying in a group that is tearing through a dungeon with ease. Rather than completing the content for fun it becomes all about that little graph in the corner of the screen and games lose a lot of fun for this.

    It encourages bullies to start policing the group, often unnecessarily.

    Meters are good for solo rotation tuning but outside of high end raids it should really end there.
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Member RarePosts: 1,247
    DPS meters are good when used within a guild or group of friends who see the other person behind the keyboard.

    Most times they are used by people who treat others as NPCs and do not see the person behind the keyboard.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed Member RarePosts: 6,979
    I want to see how this go.

    image

  • mystik13mystik13 Member UncommonPosts: 142
    I think it leads to class exclusion. Doubtful that benefits from conditions and boons that help the rest of the team will be taken in account. In theory it could be a useful tool but in practice I imagine it will be a source of conflict.
  • RedFinRedFin Member UncommonPosts: 18
    DPS meters and the like may be a major reason why I don't play endgame content any more. The constant push to max out every aspect of gaming performance just doesn't appeal to me in the least. I guess I play the games more for fun than competition.
    I would guess that the reason why developers are reluctant to allow DPS meters is because they believe it will lead to discrimination between hardcore and casual gamers, and in the end, lower participation rates and revenue.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 16,561
    edited March 2017
    Someone saying higher dps doesn't really win,,sorry but my math says the higher dps always wins,unless there is a huge difference in hit points.
    I simply put do not like any ego boosting ideas,i prefer fun as a group and everyone goes home happy.DPS readers to say look at me?Or to say your not good enough,i don't want those type of people around me.

    I personally do not approve of any add-ons.If something is badly needed then the dev should get off their ass and add it.If the dev decides it is not needed then nobody should have it.

    You can bet your ass that once you open the door to addons ,cheats will follow,they ALWAYS do.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • laxielaxie Member RarePosts: 1,052
    Not a good move by the GW2 team in my opinion.

    It used to work perfectly with the addition of the raid training area. DPS meters were not possible in dungeons. If a player wanted to improve their damage output, they would visit the training area, set up a training bot and practise their skills. The bot would give you your DPS and timings at 75%, 50%, 25% and 0%. Seems like the perfect solution.

    The latest direction GW2 is taking feels strange. The game was designed from the ground up to allow for flexible grouping, non-trinity combat, accessible progression and non-elitist PvE content. A lot of people didn't like it, but the game built a core stable audience to whom the concept appealed. Now we have tank/healing/dps roles in raids and DPS meters.

    It seems the development team is focusing on the hardcore minority, which does not make a lot of sense to me.
  • FlyByKnightFlyByKnight Member EpicPosts: 3,967
    DPS Meter = Douch Nozzle Magnet

    Bad decision. GW2 is not about standing still and optimizing rotations and macros. If that's the direction they're going in, then it's going to be a firestorm in regard to PVE balancing.

    It seemed like the people who had the DPS Meter mentality in GW2 were always the "REVIVE MEH! REVIVE MEEEEEH!" people too. *shrug*
    MadFrenchie
    "As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*" 

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • aslan132aslan132 Member UncommonPosts: 588
    For the most part, I agree with the comments here more than the column. The column has the theory correct, but sadly the comments reflect the practice.

    In theory, a DPS meter would be a tool to help everyone improve, basically "sciencing" the game. But in practice, they are used almost exclusively as a "douche tool". Its a measurement of an epeen, rather than performance.

    My personal thoughts, I believe DPS meters could be helpful. But only if they were limited to display your own DPS and not a groups. It should be a personal tool, something you use to find your own weaknesses and improve them to help the group or raid or just gain a better understanding of your class. They should NOT display overall group performance, and point out weak or slacking players for all to see. Friendly competition would be welcome, but with humans, no competition is ever friendly. Its just not in our nature. It becomes more about "im better than everyone else" than it is about "im doing what im supposed to so we all win".
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,163
    IMHO

    Things like DPS meters suck the fun out of games.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,799
    I don't think parsing should be bannable, but I really don't like them. It really does suck the fun out of the game.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 2,914
    i play more happy when i dont have a dps meter and that doesnt mean i dont top parsers (hell i was #1 #2 for a lot of times in WoW on my rogue ) , but the last years i played FFXIV and even sometimes we parsed (i didnt other on in the party did) and i was #1 on some bosses and last on others :P , but couldnt care less where i was ...

    so my vote goes to no dps meter , what FFXIV did was cool a dummy that u need to kill in time...that was enough , however Crits and luck play a important role there , u can crit x10 or not crit at all however once u killed the dummy x10 times u were "ready" .

    i dont mind SOLO TRIALS or something in order to being able to face some raids , why ppl hated WoW training grounds? it was cool! , but the balance was off like always and some specs did it with easy.
  • mmrvmmrv Member RarePosts: 302
    DPS meter is a cancer, it seems okay on the surface like it can help your gameplay but then it should only be enabled on practice dummies or premade groups. It is the sole reason I stopped playing WOW, I play a game to have fun not to constantly compare my "dps meter results" to my party members which just becomes a big pile of stress as every trivial fight becomes some stupid dps meter race. Then we can go on to how easily they are abused and destructive as my friend told me on a pug wow raid " go aoe some of that statues over there you can pad your dps meter stats, no we don't need to kill them but you can really drive up your dps fast".

    I used to be a dps meter guy but over time I realize its a cancer that sucks the game out of the game, and it should only be allowed in special practice rooms to help people improve their gameplay and fine tune their builds and specs.
  • XiaokiXiaoki Member RarePosts: 3,293
    If "elitist jerks" use a DPS meter to exclude people then they will exclude people even if there is no DPS meter.

    A DPS meter is just a tool, how it's used is up to the individual. Someone can use the DPS meter to see what they are doing wrong, work on their rotation and improve themselves.

    Learning new things and improving are certainly fun to me, dont know why so many of you dont find that fun.

    Also, if GW2 players are deathly afraid that DPS meters will ruin the community then perhaps the community already sucks.

    In WoW the only time people complain about someone's DPS performance is when they are REALLY below standard, otherwise no one cares.

    Its very weird that a lot of MMO players are against knowledge and getting better.
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,771
    DPS meters should be for personal use only. Public ones are a cancer for mmos
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,771

    Xiaoki said:

    If "elitist jerks" use a DPS meter to exclude people then they will exclude people even if there is no DPS meter.

    A DPS meter is just a tool, how it's used is up to the individual. Someone can use the DPS meter to see what they are doing wrong, work on their rotation and improve themselves.

    Learning new things and improving are certainly fun to me, dont know why so many of you dont find that fun.

    Also, if GW2 players are deathly afraid that DPS meters will ruin the community then perhaps the community already sucks.

    In WoW the only time people complain about someone's DPS performance is when they are REALLY below standard, otherwise no one cares.

    Its very weird that a lot of MMO players are against knowledge and getting better.



    Wrong. In Legion LFR even people are being kicked for doing average dps. I am all for personal dps meters, I use them to test new things as well, but they should not be used against the community.
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • KellerKeller Member UncommonPosts: 602
    Never really raided or did serious dungeons in LOTRO, but I liked the concept of having skills that would open up a Special Group Attack. Never been asked what my DPS was. Just my build and I did my job that came with the build. We checked which group attack we would do and that was it.

    DPS meters are a tool for pugs. In WoW we were always able to tell when someone was slacking, had an offspec or a weird skill rotation. Not being jerks about it, we just discussed builds and rotations after the dungeon or while clearing trash. Friendly pointers and sometimes a random player would learn us a new trick.
  • NERVergoproxyNERVergoproxy Member UncommonPosts: 1,500
    Really? that is good to know! now i may play GW2 again.
  • RPGMASTERGAMERRPGMASTERGAMER Member UncommonPosts: 516
    dps meters are good, with that you know if you are playing with scrub or good players who know their rotation and skill, no one like wipe because joe suck at the game, so we can know joe dont do his job and kick him or explain him how to play. with no dps meters you dont know why the boss dont die.

    only peoples like joe who are bad at game dont like them

    learn2play joe
Sign In or Register to comment.