The lack of content has nothing to do with a desire to release a full
game. They've already stipulated they will be releasing an MVP and have
also been quite clear that a lot of the stretch goals will be
implemented post release, ie they have intimated that there won't be
100 systems at launch, that will be a figure they build up to.
If they release what they planned up to the Alpha 4.0, with a few systems and call that SC's MPV, that will be a game with more content and depth than ED's MVP ever offered.
It takes delusion to call the time SC has already taken on development to be somehow inadmissible when you compare it to other MMO's as GW2, ESO or SWTOR and their scope/depth.
This would be a really silly comparison to make.
Elite's MVP came out after 2 years of development, SC's 4.0 will be the result of 6 or 7 years development.
I don't understand your last paragraph, where was it mentioned that it was inadmissable? Until
there is proof that their game has more depth than other games it can't
be held up as a reason for their additional time spent in development
either.
Secondly, ED raised around $100 million in IPO funding at the EXACT time that they started development of ED, they hired 50 additional staff around the same time, and they have ZERO other games in development, [...]
Secondly, ED raised around $100 million in IPO funding at the EXACT time that they started development of ED, they hired 50 additional staff around the same time, and they have ZERO other games in development, [...]
Elite's MVP came out after 2 years of development, SC's 4.0 will be the result of 6 or 7 years development.
It's different games with different scope and depth, and when you compare it to the examples given that is all +5 years in dev by established companies and studios financially backed up from the start. Benefits that CIG with SC never had, it was a building their first game as they built their company without a solid budget, things that cumulate to the reality.
No, CIG doesn't have 400 people working on the game. They might have a staff of 350, but those are not all developers, the exact same way that you're claiming that Frontiers only has 80 people working on a game from an office of 300 people with very little in the way of support or other projects going on...... Mmmmmmmk!
Secondly, ED raised around $100 million in IPO funding at the EXACT time that they started development of ED, they hired 50 additional staff around the same time, and they have ZERO other games in development, it's all sustaining projects which require very few resources. So, yes, their budget for ED is VERY similar to SC.
Yeah, but their MVP contains a feature set equivalent to or great than ED, right? Mmmm, yeah, K. Why not just be truthful? ED isn't a feature-complete game yet either. So, yes, they're still developing the game. Have they gone into sustaining? NOPE!!! Otherwise, why haven't we seen them slash the 50 dev jobs they specifically hired for additional ED development resources?
I'm really sorry, you can say that the funding is going wherever you want, but when you raise $100 million and have zero other games under development, that means ED is now the primary focus, which means that the office resources (300 employees) are primarily focused on delivering and supporting ED at the moment. So $20 million of their $25 million expenses are ED-focused. Roll that over a 5-year period and BAM! You're up over $100 million, and they're not done yet. Right? They aren't feature complete yet, correct?
You are right on your last point, though. Partly. It's been mentioned time and time again that they are shipping an MVP.... FUCK! You just said that yourself! So, yes, while they have NOT released that MVP at the moment, the contents of that MVP will be more feature-rich than ED. So ED has some catching up to do. Maybe another paid expansion will do it So the lack of content comes directly from the fact that they haven't reached their MVP, which is now set via roadmap, yes? That is available to public? HOWEVER, I will concede that there has been a great deal of bad planning, redesigns, and poor project management/micro-management. HOWEVER, to say that they should have shipped something Loooooong ago as the poster did is a vastly inaccurate statement since, again, ED has yet to deliver an equivalent feature set in a game that is of lower graphical fidelity and has the same number of resources. However, it's WILDLY inaccurate to say that ED has 80 people while CIG has 400. Sorry, that's simply untrue.
Of course they're not all developers, there's various staff doing
various jobs but the majority of that number are working directly on Star Citizen
and / or Squadron42. It's not like they have a 50 person customer service
team or anything.
Can you show proof that they raised $100 million via their IPO. Even if they did raise that much what makes you think they're going to use all of that for Elite? They have 300+ staff at Frontier and as mentioned ~80 of those working on Elite, that means 220 doing other things so that alleged $100 million IPO is not, cannot be solely for 1/4th of the studio. That would be really bad...
Until they release that MVP you cannot make the assertion that it will be more feature-rich, there is absolutely no way you can say that at this time, also what counts as more important features is so subjective it's like saying a BLT has more content than a ham salad...
Elite's MVP came out after 2 years of development, SC's 4.0 will be the result of 6 or 7 years development.
It's different games with different scope and depth, and when you compare it to the examples given that is all +5 years in dev by established companies and studios financially backed up from the start. Benefits that CIG with SC never had, it was a building their first game as they built their company without a solid budget.
I do agree that some allowances have to be made, I would never deny that. However they have also had a lot working for them in the way of an off-the-shelf engine, crytek employees, Erin's team, lauded industry vets etc. It's not like they have had to start completely from scratch.
No, CIG doesn't have 400 people working on the game. They might have a staff of 350, but those are not all developers, the exact same way that you're claiming that Frontiers only has 80 people working on a game from an office of 300 people with very little in the way of support or other projects going on...... Mmmmmmmk!
Secondly, ED raised around $100 million in IPO funding at the EXACT time that they started development of ED, they hired 50 additional staff around the same time, and they have ZERO other games in development, it's all sustaining projects which require very few resources. So, yes, their budget for ED is VERY similar to SC.
Yeah, but their MVP contains a feature set equivalent to or great than ED, right? Mmmm, yeah, K. Why not just be truthful? ED isn't a feature-complete game yet either. So, yes, they're still developing the game. Have they gone into sustaining? NOPE!!! Otherwise, why haven't we seen them slash the 50 dev jobs they specifically hired for additional ED development resources?
I'm really sorry, you can say that the funding is going wherever you want, but when you raise $100 million and have zero other games under development, that means ED is now the primary focus, which means that the office resources (300 employees) are primarily focused on delivering and supporting ED at the moment. So $20 million of their $25 million expenses are ED-focused. Roll that over a 5-year period and BAM! You're up over $100 million, and they're not done yet. Right? They aren't feature complete yet, correct?
You are right on your last point, though. Partly. It's been mentioned time and time again that they are shipping an MVP.... FUCK! You just said that yourself! So, yes, while they have NOT released that MVP at the moment, the contents of that MVP will be more feature-rich than ED. So ED has some catching up to do. Maybe another paid expansion will do it So the lack of content comes directly from the fact that they haven't reached their MVP, which is now set via roadmap, yes? That is available to public? HOWEVER, I will concede that there has been a great deal of bad planning, redesigns, and poor project management/micro-management. HOWEVER, to say that they should have shipped something Loooooong ago as the poster did is a vastly inaccurate statement since, again, ED has yet to deliver an equivalent feature set in a game that is of lower graphical fidelity and has the same number of resources. However, it's WILDLY inaccurate to say that ED has 80 people while CIG has 400. Sorry, that's simply untrue.
Of course they're not all developers, there's various staff doing
various jobs but the majority of that number are working directly on Star Citizen
and / or Squadron42. It's not like they have a 50 person customer service
team or anything.
Can you show proof that they raised $100 million via their IPO. Even if they did raise that much what makes you think they're going to use all of that for Elite? They have 300+ staff at Frontier and as mentioned ~80 of those working on Elite, that means 220 doing other things so that alleged $100 million IPO is not, cannot be solely for 1/4th of the studio. That would be really bad...
Until they release that MVP you cannot make the assertion that it will be more feature-rich, there is absolutely no way you can say that at this time, also what counts as more important features is so subjective it's like saying a BLT has more content than a ham salad...
No, but I can show that they have 330,000 shares outstanding right now and you could conservatively say by looking at their history that a price of 210 GBP would be fairly conservative, which puts them around the $90 million USD raised. No, it's not exacting, but neither is anything I've heard here.
Yeah, but just because they have 220 additional staff over and above developers doesn't mean they aren't working on Elite. They have $25 million annually in revenues. So show me where these 220 other employees are making the company money. It's all about Elite right now. I'm not saying that the $100 million would support just Elite, they're actually supporting themselves with their current revenues. HOWEVER, that's primarily revenue from ED.
You're right, we can't say that SC has more features that ED does. Again, though, this is simply a difference between the two models. I'm not hearing you deny that ED isn't missing any promised features. So are we in agreement that development on EDs promised feature set is still ongoing? And that we can all buy the latest expansion to experience a more complete game for ourselves?
They have 4 teams working on various games so that supposed $100 million IPO is not solely reserved for Elite, saying it has the same budget as SC just doesn't fly.
Frontier are working on Planet Coaster, Planet Safari, Elite and also some Hollywood IP they have licensed.
No you won't here me deny that Elite needs more features, I've never said otherwise because I understand that a game that comes out 2 years after the start of its development is going to be light on features and depth, but it's an
ongoing project and we do see the fruits of their work at regular 3 monthly intervals. I would also argue that I much prefer an expansion model than the god-awful macrotransaction cash shop that CIG employs. Somebody has to buy all of those ridiculously priced items to get the game made, even if you don't.
They have 4 teams working on various games so that supposed $100 million IPO is not solely reserved for Elite, saying it has the same budget as SC just doesn't fly.
Frontier are working on Planet Coaster, Planet Safari, Elite and also some Hollywood IP they have licensed.
No you won't here me deny that Elite needs more features, I've never said otherwise because I understand that a game that comes out 2 years after the start of its development is going to be light on features and depth, but it's an
ongoing project and we do see the fruits of their work at regular 3 monthly intervals. I would also argue that I much prefer an expansion model than the god-awful macrotransaction cash shop that CIG employs. Somebody has to buy all of those ridiculously priced items to get the game made, even if you don't.
I'm not saying that you need to say that they have a $100 million budget. However, if you do the math and you're truthful, it's a big-budget game. Does it eclipse $100 million? Who knows. Does SC eclipse $100 million yet? Who knows! However, tragectory-wise they both scale very closely.
I'm not saying that SC is the be all, end all, [mod edit] ED is still implementing features 5 years later and they are also a big-budget game. At very least we've got to be talking about a $60 or $70 million dollar game right now.
I have also said that I see the advantages to the ED model. There's no denying that.
Here's the maths. If their operating costs for the year are ~£22 million and we are generous in saying that for the first 2 years half of the studio worked on Elite, while for the remaining 2 years a quarter of the studio worked on Elite then we're looking at approx. £33 million to date (~$41.5 million at today's rate). Estimations put CIG at having burned through almost 2.5x that figure in the same period.
I think calling him retarded is completlely unnecessary. He is quite right in that we should have more by now. There has been a considerable amount of revamping already, wasted money and time on things like Illfonic's Star Marine, wasted money and time on silly one-time bullshot demos, lots of hubris leading to bad planning which then requires large overhauls of work etc. There's a lot of stuff that is excusable and then there's a lot of stuff that isn't. To think that all we have after almost 4 1/4 years is 2 stations, some isolated hangars, an isolated shopping center, AC and a basic FPS is pretty dire. They're talking about another 12-18 months before we can even go to another star system, that will be 5 1/2 - 6 years into the project and will have cost ~$140 million. Not exactly value for money
I think calling him retarded is completlely unnecessary. He is quite right in that we should have more by now. There has been a considerable amount of revamping already, wasted money and time on things like Illfonic's Star Marine, wasted money and time on silly one-time bullshot demos, lots of hubris leading to bad planning which then requires large overhauls of work etc. There's a lot of stuff that is excusable and then there's a lot of stuff that isn't. To think that all we have after almost 4 1/4 years is 2 stations, some isolated hangars, an isolated shopping center, AC and a basic FPS is pretty dire. They're talking about another 12-18 months before we can even go to another star system, that will be 5 1/2 - 6 years into the project and will have cost ~$140 million. Not exactly value for money
Ignoring the made up economics fluff (posting about cig or frontier finances is useless conjecture and not the topic of the thread).
What you consider "waste of money and time" about Star Marine and CIG could be said about Frontier and the Arena Mode, Power play, Engineers and other half-asset mechanics that turned out to be a complete failure or need refactoring because they didn't asked the community about it. The thing is that it's a normal process of a game in progress. Some things work out better than others while other's simply don't work out at all. You talk about "bullshot demos" while the "Thargoyd appearance" was just that, just a pre-programmed show off with no interaction, there was a down time in the servers and frontier putted some gfx shiny fluff to hype up people. But that's ok. "After all these years, players finally made contact!" yuppie
Judging a game which is a work in progress by what is released when they've shown plenty of stuff that is being worked behind the doors is deceitful posting or simply ignorant, as is the idea that if you spend X time on making 1 space station (that involves all the needed R&D, tools development, optimization, testing etc etc) you will take that same amount of time for all the other space stations you do...
And what is the problem with needing one more year to be able to travel to other system while they develop the tech and stuff to go in them? I surely don't want another game where systems are barren empty repetitive balls of different colours or with trading and npc interaction is of minimal engagement.
I don't understand why some people are in such a hurry when all the examples of GOTY material took at least 6+ years in the making from experienced company's.
Learn to be patient or find another hobby besides pesting forums, play video-games for example.
Ignoring the made up economics fluff (posting about cig or frontier finances is useless conjecture and not the topic of the thread).
What you consider "waste of money and time" about Star Marine and CIG could be said about Frontier and the Arena Mode, Power play, Engineers and other half-asset mechanics that turned out to be a complete failure or need refactoring because they didn't asked the community about it. The thing is that it's a normal process of a game in progress. Some things work out better than others while other's simply don't work out at all. You talk about "bullshot demos" while the "Thargoyd appearance" was just that, just a pre-programmed show off with no interaction, there was a down time in the servers and frontier putted some gfx shiny fluff to hype up people. But that's ok. "After all these years, players finally made contact!" yuppie
Judging a game which is a work in progress by what is released when they've shown plenty of stuff that is being worked behind the doors is deceitful posting or simply ignorant, as is the idea that if you spend X time on making 1 space station (that involves all the needed R&D, tools development, optimization, testing etc etc) you will take that same amount of time for all the other space stations you do...
And what is the problem with needing one more year to be able to travel to other system while they develop the tech and stuff to go in them? I surely don't want another game where systems are barren empty repetitive balls of different colours or with trading and npc interaction is of minimal engagement.
I don't understand why some people are in such a hurry when all the examples of GOTY material took at least 6+ years in the making from experienced company's.
Learn to be patient or find another hobby besides pesting forums, play video-games for example.
You can't make comparisons to things like Powerplay or Engineers or
other "half-asset mechanics" (whatever they are) because people actually get to
play with those things and make use of them in game. The things I said
were a waste of time from CIG's end are all things that you can't even
play with. There is no comparison to be made, at all.... nor is there any guarantee that things CIG do implement won't need to be redone in the future. You seem to be operating on the belief that if they take longer and get it right now then they'll be set forever more but how often does that realistically happen, even with the best planning.
Judging a game on what has been delivered is not decietful or ignorant,
it is the only real measure that can be taken. What is decietful is
saying that CIG's in house stuff is the game. Until it is in backers'
hands it is practically worthless.
There's nothing wrong with another year, it's just amusing that this mega studio with its record amount of crowdfunding and insane levels of braggadocio needs 6 years to make more than 1 star system... you want to take snipes at Elite but the planets CIG have shown are barren, empty, repetitive balls of different colour with no trading, no NPCs and no enagagement. I'm not sure this is going where you want it to go...
I like that you want to make CIG's failings my issue instead of theirs. They're the ones with 400 people, $145 million up front and 4 1/2 years with sweet FA to show for it. It's certainly not a case of patience.
I'm fine with my games, Zelda, Nier and Elite are keeping me more than occupied, thanks for asking. I hope you're having fun watching CIG play the game you don't have yet.
Edit: I am partly teasing you with this stuff about them not having done sweet FA. I know they've made loads of ships, assets etc. My main issue is that we, the backers, don't have an awful lot to play with right now. I just hope they can deliver 3.0 to remedy that sooner rather than later.
Ignoring the made up economics fluff (posting about cig or frontier finances is useless conjecture and not the topic of the thread).
What you consider "waste of money and time" about Star Marine and CIG could be said about Frontier and the Arena Mode, Power play, Engineers and other half-asset mechanics that turned out to be a complete failure or need refactoring because they didn't asked the community about it. The thing is that it's a normal process of a game in progress. Some things work out better than others while other's simply don't work out at all. You talk about "bullshot demos" while the "Thargoyd appearance" was just that, just a pre-programmed show off with no interaction, there was a down time in the servers and frontier putted some gfx shiny fluff to hype up people. But that's ok. "After all these years, players finally made contact!" yuppie
Judging a game which is a work in progress by what is released when they've shown plenty of stuff that is being worked behind the doors is deceitful posting or simply ignorant, as is the idea that if you spend X time on making 1 space station (that involves all the needed R&D, tools development, optimization, testing etc etc) you will take that same amount of time for all the other space stations you do...
And what is the problem with needing one more year to be able to travel to other system while they develop the tech and stuff to go in them? I surely don't want another game where systems are barren empty repetitive balls of different colours or with trading and npc interaction is of minimal engagement.
I don't understand why some people are in such a hurry when all the examples of GOTY material took at least 6+ years in the making from experienced company's.
Learn to be patient or find another hobby besides pesting forums, play video-games for example.
You can't make comparisons to things like Powerplay or Engineers or
other "half-asset mechanics" (whatever they are) because people actually get to
play with those things and make use of them in game. The things I said
were a waste of time from CIG's end are all things that you can't even
play with. There is no comparison to be made, at all.... nor is there any guarantee that things CIG do implement won't need to be redone in the future. You seem to be operating on the belief that if they take longer and get it right now then they'll be set forever more but how often does that realistically happen, even with the best planning.
Judging a game on what has been delivered is not decietful or ignorant,
it is the only real measure that can be taken. What is decietful is
saying that CIG's in house stuff is the game. Until it is in backers'
hands it is practically worthless.
There's nothing wrong with another year, it's just amusing that this mega studio with its record amount of crowdfunding and insane levels of braggadocio needs 6 years to make more than 1 star system... you want to take snipes at Elite but the planets CIG have shown are barren, empty, repetitive balls of different colour with no trading, no NPCs and no enagagement. I'm not sure this is going where you want it to go...
I like that you want to make CIG's failings my issue instead of theirs. They're the ones with 400 people, $145 million up front and 4 1/2 years with sweet FA to show for it. It's certainly not a case of patience.
I'm fine with my games, Zelda, Nier and Elite are keeping me more than occupied, thanks for asking. I hope you're having fun watching CIG play the game you don't have yet.
Edit: I am partly teasing you with this stuff about them not having done sweet FA. I know they've made loads of ships, assets etc. My main issue is that we, the backers, don't have an awful lot to play with right now. I just hope they can deliver 3.0 to remedy that sooner rather than later.
Oh common dont make this a flawless victory by default...
OFC that I can make comparisons with Powerplay and Engineers and other "half-asset mechanics"!
I can do it because yourself are making comparisons between a fully released game and a game in development, so It's game on by your rules.
The things that you mentioned were waste of time ARE playable (Star Marine is released remember?)
You are happily judging unfairly something that normally you wouldn't have access to by any established company, but since you can't or don't want to understand the fact that a work in progress is just that, work in progress that is BOUND to take time and go back in forth before it "feels" good you basically are starting with the ignorant foot.
And I don't really need to take snipes at ED do I? Frontier does that by itself. I would say that both Frontier and ED keep shooting themself s purple lasers in the feet, without aim assist mind you, but they don't even have those members working (legs) so the pun would probably go unnoticed.
Yes they are a released game, but they are not a FINISHED game by any means! They surely don't feel or play like one. And the last 2 years of updates hardly feel like updates (besides planetary landing) PP, ENG and now MultiC show that the scope is shrinking! We're going from Space simulation to handwavium arcade instant travelling holo 3rp shooting action gameplay.
As a backer you are not supposed to have an awful lot to play right now. You are supposed to back and wait until it releases. If you want to give feedback and help development you have the proper official forum to give feedback or report bugs, repeatedly bitching in random forum's about X or Y is an absolute waste of time, yours and readers. Read about making games, they take time and they only really come together and become enjoy-full experiences in the very last months before release.
Here's the maths. If their operating costs for the year are ~£22 million and we are generous in saying that for the first 2 years half of the studio worked on Elite, while for the remaining 2 years a quarter of the studio worked on Elite then we're looking at approx. £33 million to date (~$41.5 million at today's rate). Estimations put CIG at having burned through almost 2.5x that figure in the same period.
I think calling him retarded is completlely unnecessary. He is quite right in that we should have more by now. There has been a considerable amount of revamping already, wasted money and time on things like Illfonic's Star Marine, wasted money and time on silly one-time bullshot demos, lots of hubris leading to bad planning which then requires large overhauls of work etc. There's a lot of stuff that is excusable and then there's a lot of stuff that isn't. To think that all we have after almost 4 1/4 years is 2 stations, some isolated hangars, an isolated shopping center, AC and a basic FPS is pretty dire. They're talking about another 12-18 months before we can even go to another star system, that will be 5 1/2 - 6 years into the project and will have cost ~$140 million. Not exactly value for money
I think that the number is closer to the 80-90 mark, but we can agree to disagree.
I cant ant disagree with you that CIG has spent more, but we can't say the bank is dry. Based on their employee curve they are more likely in the 90-100 range with a 25-30 million annual burn rate. So they probably have enough gas at this point to get to mid 2018. So I guess we will only have to debate on here for another year
Value is very subjective. I spent more on Hex than I did on SC, so my value is very easily made back. For those who have spent in the thousands... I really hope they find value at some point.
Oh common dont make this a flawless victory by default...
OFC that I can make comparisons with Powerplay and Engineers and other "half-asset mechanics"!
I can do it because yourself are making comparisons between a fully released game and a game in development, so It's game on by your rules.
The things that you mentioned were waste of time ARE playable (Star Marine is released remember?)
You are happily judging unfairly something that normally you wouldn't have access to by any established company, but since you can't or don't want to understand the fact that a work in progress is just that, work in progress that is BOUND to take time and go back in forth before it "feels" good you basically are starting with the ignorant foot.
And I don't really need to take snipes at ED do I? Frontier does that by itself. I would say that both Frontier and ED keep shooting themself s purple lasers in the feet, without aim assist mind you, but they don't even have those members working (legs) so the pun would probably go unnoticed.
Yes they are a released game, but they are not a FINISHED game by any means! They surely don't feel or play like one. And the last 2 years of updates hardly feel like updates (besides planetary landing) PP, ENG and now MultiC show that the scope is shrinking! We're going from Space simulation to handwavium arcade instant travelling holo 3rp shooting action gameplay.
As a backer you are not supposed to have an awful lot to play right now. You are supposed to back and wait until it releases. If you want to give feedback and help development you have the proper official forum to give feedback or report bugs, repeatedly bitching in random forum's about X or Y is an absolute waste of time, yours and readers. Read about making games, they take time and they only really come together and become enjoy-full experiences in the very last months before release.
Err you ought to read what you write, I am not the one making comparisons. It is yourself amongst others who were bringing up Elite / Frontier and making comparisons. Go back through the thread and you will see that it is not me who is brings up another game to justify Star Citizen's delays. Get your facts straight.
You can say those things about Elite and that's perfectly fair, they do make mistakes but this is about Star Citizen not what some other company is or isn't doing. Just because you feel Frontier make mistakes does not justify CIG doing so or blowing their targets or failing to deliver...
And again with the stuff about Elite.... you seem to want to take the "Look, look at them, don't look at me..." approach now. It's fine that you don't like Elite and what they're doing with the game, that's entirely up to you because taste is subjective. Your snipe about arcadey-ness is daft because in Star Citizen you have ships that pop up from thin air, you have characters that run full speed in space with magboots etc.
As a backer I was meant to have 3.0 and 3.1 by now so you can't tell me I should not have a lot of game to play with. Telling me that I should be quiet and only post feedback or reports bugs is naff, would you say the same about positive comments or is it only reserved for comments you don't like. Perhaps try posting a thread on the subreddit telling people they should only be posting bugs or giving feedback on the official forums and not discussing anything else about the game because you said so....
Oh common dont make this a flawless victory by default...
OFC that I can make comparisons with Powerplay and Engineers and other "half-asset mechanics"!
I can do it because yourself are making comparisons between a fully released game and a game in development, so It's game on by your rules.
The things that you mentioned were waste of time ARE playable (Star Marine is released remember?)
You are happily judging unfairly something that normally you wouldn't have access to by any established company, but since you can't or don't want to understand the fact that a work in progress is just that, work in progress that is BOUND to take time and go back in forth before it "feels" good you basically are starting with the ignorant foot.
And I don't really need to take snipes at ED do I? Frontier does that by itself. I would say that both Frontier and ED keep shooting themself s purple lasers in the feet, without aim assist mind you, but they don't even have those members working (legs) so the pun would probably go unnoticed.
Yes they are a released game, but they are not a FINISHED game by any means! They surely don't feel or play like one. And the last 2 years of updates hardly feel like updates (besides planetary landing) PP, ENG and now MultiC show that the scope is shrinking! We're going from Space simulation to handwavium arcade instant travelling holo 3rp shooting action gameplay.
As a backer you are not supposed to have an awful lot to play right now. You are supposed to back and wait until it releases. If you want to give feedback and help development you have the proper official forum to give feedback or report bugs, repeatedly bitching in random forum's about X or Y is an absolute waste of time, yours and readers. Read about making games, they take time and they only really come together and become enjoy-full experiences in the very last months before release.
Err you ought to read what you write, I am not the one making comparisons. It is yourself amongst others who were bringing up Elite / Frontier and making comparisons. Go back through the thread and you will see that it is not me who is brings up another game to justify Star Citizen's delays. Get your facts straight.
You can say those things about Elite and that's perfectly fair, they do make mistakes but this is about Star Citizen not what some other company is or isn't doing. Just because you feel Frontier make mistakes does not justify CIG doing so or blowing their targets or failing to deliver...
And again with the stuff about Elite.... you seem to want to take the "Look, look at them, don't look at me..." approach now. It's fine that you don't like Elite and what they're doing with the game, that's entirely up to you because taste is subjective. Your snipe about arcadey-ness is daft because in Star Citizen you have ships that pop up from thin air, you have characters that run full speed in space with magboots etc.
As a backer I was meant to have 3.0 and 3.1 by now so you can't tell me I should not have a lot of game to play with. Telling me that I should be quiet and only post feedback or reports bugs is naff, would you say the same about positive comments or is it only reserved for comments you don't like. Perhaps try posting a thread on the subreddit telling people they should only be posting bugs or giving feedback on the official forums and not discussing anything else about the game because you said so....
I've just recently joined the discussion I dunno who started with the comparisons but those are not the point, CIG makes mistakes as Frontier makes mistakes as ALL COMPANY's make. It's normal part of making games and the entertainment industry as a whole. Some stuff works while other's don't. You seem to be the kind of poster that likes to single out Star Citizen and its development while being oblivious to other realities just because you don't like them for whatever reason.
You really wanna mention ships that pop up from thin air when Frontier creates fluff npc pirates out of nothing constantly? And there's no mag boots in star citizen, landing pads and ship's generate their own gravity.
As a backer you are meant to back and that's it, we are entitled to know what's going on with the project and that is done by the weekly shows and conventions. Nobody was forced to back or buy the game as finished on Steam. Intentions are not promises. ED players were supposed to have a offline mode or a 100,000$ Arena CQB tournament just to name some examples and didn't. Didn't pan out for whatever reason, Too bad, things change, move on.
I've just recently joined the discussion I dunno who started with the comparisons but those are not the point, CIG makes mistakes as Frontier makes mistakes as ALL COMPANY's make. It's normal part of making games and the entertainment industry as a whole. Some stuff works while other's don't. You seem to be the kind of poster that likes to single out Star Citizen and its development while being oblivious to other realities just because you don't like them for whatever reason.
You really wanna mention ships that pop up from thin air when Frontier creates fluff npc pirates out of nothing constantly? And there's no mag boots in star citizen, landing pads and ship's generate their own gravity.
As a backer you are meant to back and that's it, we are entitled to know what's going on with the project and that is done by the weekly shows and conventions. Nobody was forced to back or buy the game as finished on Steam. Intentions are not promises. ED players were supposed to have a offline mode or a 100,000$ Arena CQB tournament just to name some examples and didn't. Didn't pan out for whatever reason, Too bad, things change, move on.
Dude, you posted on the first page of the thread, you've been here
virtually from the start so I don't know how you can say you just recently joined the discussion.
Yes, all companies make mistakes however it seems some make many, many more mistakes than others and of a much higher severity than others. Some don't seem to learn from their mistakes either. I single out Star Citizen because I am a backer and it is of interest to me, plus they regularly make mistakes which I feel are not acceptable, they make all these wild claims (to bolster income) and then fail on a lot of them etc. And so what if I complain about these things, I have every right to do so. I also post threads about the interesting stuff that CIG do. It's not totally one-sided.
As a backer you can be as critical as you like, there's no "You're just meant to back and that's it." If you're just meant to back then why is it ok for prople to post promo material but not criticism, that's just so biased.
Elite hoped to have that offline mode, it wasn't implemented because of
the way they did the Background Simultation stuff, Frontier told people
(far too late imo) and issued refunds, you know this. If you honestly felt that this was really a case of "too bad, things change, move on" then why are you bringing it up 3 years later.... if something is meant to be a bygone then it seems a bit duplictious to use it as a stick when it suits you.
I've just recently joined the discussion I dunno who started with the comparisons but those are not the point, CIG makes mistakes as Frontier makes mistakes as ALL COMPANY's make. It's normal part of making games and the entertainment industry as a whole. Some stuff works while other's don't. You seem to be the kind of poster that likes to single out Star Citizen and its development while being oblivious to other realities just because you don't like them for whatever reason.
You really wanna mention ships that pop up from thin air when Frontier creates fluff npc pirates out of nothing constantly? And there's no mag boots in star citizen, landing pads and ship's generate their own gravity.
As a backer you are meant to back and that's it, we are entitled to know what's going on with the project and that is done by the weekly shows and conventions. Nobody was forced to back or buy the game as finished on Steam. Intentions are not promises. ED players were supposed to have a offline mode or a 100,000$ Arena CQB tournament just to name some examples and didn't. Didn't pan out for whatever reason, Too bad, things change, move on.
Dude, you posted on the first page of the thread, you've been here
virtually from the start so I don't know how you can say you just recently joined the discussion.
Yes, all companies make mistakes however it seems some make many, many more mistakes than others and of a much higher severity than others. Some don't seem to learn from their mistakes either. I single out Star Citizen because I am a backer and it is of interest to me, plus they regularly make mistakes which I feel are not acceptable, they make all these wild claims (to bolster income) and then fail on a lot of them etc. And so what if I complain about these things, I have every right to do so. I also post threads about the interesting stuff that CIG do. It's not totally one-sided.
As a backer you can be as critical as you like, there's no "You're just meant to back and that's it." If you're just meant to back then why is it ok for prople to post promo material but not criticism, that's just so biased.
Elite hoped to have that offline mode, it wasn't implemented because of
the way they did the Background Simultation stuff, Frontier told people
(far too late imo) and issued refunds, you know this. If you honestly felt that this was really a case of "too bad, things change, move on" then why are you bringing it up 3 years later.... if something is meant to be a bygone then it seems a bit duplictious to use it as a stick when it suits you.
Yes, you have every right to stomp your feet around like an entitled child. Also, please don't act like you post things that are pro-SC. Every time that ED releases something, you're gushing over it likes it's the best fucking thing since sliced bread, but every SC thread you post into is, generally, negative.
Listen, Offline mode isn't the only feature that ED failed to deliver. There is a veritable laundry list of things that have yet to be delivered that were promised to backers. HOWEVER!! If someone at CIG happens to piss on the toilet seat, we should probably blow it up like the sky is falling.
You post ZERO negative or critical posts regarding ED and nearly 100% of your posts with regards to SC are bitching about something. It's fucking hilarious because you sit there and talk about how Offline mode was an ED fuck up, but then scold someone for bringing it up 3 years later, lol. Meanwhile, just before that you're talking about the cumulative mistakes made by CIG over the project.
Yes! We get it! You LOVE ED! Also, yes, we get it, you are an SC "backer". Honestly, it's like the whole argument "I can't be racist! I have a friend who's black!" Like why don't we just be honest here?
Ofc the intellectual dishonesty is concurrent and telling of these continuous haters. It's not about games anymore, for them it's a personal vendetta against CIG that they will never win, it's their loss for all I care, just wished they stop polluting the internet with their childish nonsense.
Yes, you have every right to stomp your feet around like an entitled child. Also, please don't act like you post things that are pro-SC. Every time that ED releases something, you're gushing over it likes it's the best fucking thing since sliced bread, but every SC thread you post into is, generally, negative.
Listen, Offline mode isn't the only feature that ED failed to deliver. There is a veritable laundry list of things that have yet to be delivered that were promised to backers. HOWEVER!! If someone at CIG happens to piss on the toilet seat, we should probably blow it up like the sky is falling.
You post ZERO negative or critical posts regarding ED and nearly 100% of your posts with regards to SC are bitching about something. It's fucking hilarious because you sit there and talk about how Offline mode was an ED fuck up, but then scold someone for bringing it up 3 years later, lol. Meanwhile, just before that you're talking about the cumulative mistakes made by CIG over the project.
Yes! We get it! You LOVE ED! Also, yes, we get it, you are an SC "backer". Honestly, it's like the whole argument "I can't be racist! I have a friend who's black!" Like why don't we just be honest here?
So being critical of certain aspects of the game or its crowdfunding
method now equates "stomping my feet like an entitled child".... you
must to be very thin skinned to let such comments result in such a
hyperbolic reaction.
Every time... really? Just LOL, just stop with the hyperbolic bullshit already. There are a few videos, screenshots and threads that I post when they have something newsworthy going on. That's it.
I make posts about the not so good things in Elite, especially when someone is asking should they get the base game or the expansion, I don't just gush with praise over it. I make threads on here about good stuff SC does as well as negative things, my posts however are largely critical and I get argumentative with those that want to paint the whole project as though they can do no wrong and any excuse is acceptable for CIG/SC. So again, yet more hyperbolic bullshit.
Dude I'm not even playing Elite at the moment, haven't played properly for 3 months or more now bar a small bit of beta testing. I'll jump back in when 2.3 hits. It's just a game to me not some surrogate religion.
What's funny here is that rather than discussing Star Citizen, you and Babuinix want to make it an Elite vs Star Citizen thing, and you in particular want to make it about me, rather than what I write (a recurring subject with you). It seems you get very personal about this rather than keeping it about the posts themselves. Very amusing.
If my posts upset you so much then do yourself a favour and put me on ignore, it will save you from being upset all the time because I have no intention of stopping my criticism.
Also, please don't act like you post things that are pro-SC. .
I was curious about this because I have seen a few threads started by @rpmcmurphy that are most definitely positive and/or informative. There is probably an even split between positive and negative, perhaps even slightly weighted towards the positive side of things, ie
Also, please don't act like you post things that are pro-SC. .
I was curious about this because I have seen a few threads started by @rpmcmurphy that are most definitely positive and/or informative. There is probably an even split between positive and negative, perhaps even slightly weighted towards the positive side of things, ie
So when he said "I also post threads about the interesting stuff that CIG do." he was not incorrect.
Fair enough. Literally he wasn't incorrect, but let's not act like he's an objective overseer. If he's objective then @Erillion must also be objective.
It isn't a matter of the posts made, but the assumptions made, while giving a pass to other companies. You can't say that one company has made mistakes that are not acceptable when you have zero context surrounding what mistakes have even been made, how they were handled, and what sort of mitigation was put in place to handle it. Also, people use zero frame of reference when it comes to these arguments.
Comments
Elite's MVP came out after 2 years of development, SC's 4.0 will be the result of 6 or 7 years development.
I don't understand your last paragraph, where was it mentioned that it was inadmissable?
Until there is proof that their game has more depth than other games it can't be held up as a reason for their additional time spent in development either.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Of course they're not all developers, there's various staff doing various jobs but the majority of that number are working directly on Star Citizen and / or Squadron42. It's not like they have a 50 person customer service team or anything.
Can you show proof that they raised $100 million via their IPO.
Even if they did raise that much what makes you think they're going to use all of that for Elite?
They have 300+ staff at Frontier and as mentioned ~80 of those working on Elite, that means 220 doing other things so that alleged $100 million IPO is not, cannot be solely for 1/4th of the studio. That would be really bad...
Until they release that MVP you cannot make the assertion that it will be more feature-rich, there is absolutely no way you can say that at this time, also what counts as more important features is so subjective it's like saying a BLT has more content than a ham salad...
No, but I can show that they have 330,000 shares outstanding right now and you could conservatively say by looking at their history that a price of 210 GBP would be fairly conservative, which puts them around the $90 million USD raised. No, it's not exacting, but neither is anything I've heard here.
Yeah, but just because they have 220 additional staff over and above developers doesn't mean they aren't working on Elite. They have $25 million annually in revenues. So show me where these 220 other employees are making the company money. It's all about Elite right now. I'm not saying that the $100 million would support just Elite, they're actually supporting themselves with their current revenues. HOWEVER, that's primarily revenue from ED.
You're right, we can't say that SC has more features that ED does. Again, though, this is simply a difference between the two models. I'm not hearing you deny that ED isn't missing any promised features. So are we in agreement that development on EDs promised feature set is still ongoing? And that we can all buy the latest expansion to experience a more complete game for ourselves?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Frontier are working on Planet Coaster, Planet Safari, Elite and also some Hollywood IP they have licensed.
No you won't here me deny that Elite needs more features, I've never said otherwise because I understand that a game that comes out 2 years after the start of its development is going to be light on features and depth, but it's an ongoing project and we do see the fruits of their work at regular 3 monthly intervals.
I would also argue that I much prefer an expansion model than the god-awful macrotransaction cash shop that CIG employs. Somebody has to buy all of those ridiculously priced items to get the game made, even if you don't.
I'm not saying that you need to say that they have a $100 million budget. However, if you do the math and you're truthful, it's a big-budget game. Does it eclipse $100 million? Who knows. Does SC eclipse $100 million yet? Who knows! However, tragectory-wise they both scale very closely.
I'm not saying that SC is the be all, end all, [mod edit] ED is still implementing features 5 years later and they are also a big-budget game. At very least we've got to be talking about a $60 or $70 million dollar game right now.
I have also said that I see the advantages to the ED model. There's no denying that.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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If their operating costs for the year are ~£22 million and we are generous in saying that for the first 2 years half of the studio worked on Elite, while for the remaining 2 years a quarter of the studio worked on Elite then we're looking at approx. £33 million to date (~$41.5 million at today's rate). Estimations put CIG at having burned through almost 2.5x that figure in the same period.
Frontier's IPO http://www.frontier.co.uk/news/latest/?artid=323&pageNum=0&blk=12
"The Company has raised £4 million through a placing of new Ordinary Shares (the “Placing”), arranged by Canaccord Genuity (“Canaccord”)."
I think calling him retarded is completlely unnecessary. He is quite right in that we should have more by now.
There has been a considerable amount of revamping already, wasted money and time on things like Illfonic's Star Marine, wasted money and time on silly one-time bullshot demos, lots of hubris leading to bad planning which then requires large overhauls of work etc. There's a lot of stuff that is excusable and then there's a lot of stuff that isn't.
To think that all we have after almost 4 1/4 years is 2 stations, some isolated hangars, an isolated shopping center, AC and a basic FPS is pretty dire. They're talking about another 12-18 months before we can even go to another star system, that will be 5 1/2 - 6 years into the project and will have cost ~$140 million. Not exactly value for money
What you consider "waste of money and time" about Star Marine and CIG could be said about Frontier and the Arena Mode, Power play, Engineers and other half-asset mechanics that turned out to be a complete failure or need refactoring because they didn't asked the community about it. The thing is that it's a normal process of a game in progress. Some things work out better than others while other's simply don't work out at all. You talk about "bullshot demos" while the "Thargoyd appearance" was just that, just a pre-programmed show off with no interaction, there was a down time in the servers and frontier putted some gfx shiny fluff to hype up people. But that's ok. "After all these years, players finally made contact!" yuppie
Judging a game which is a work in progress by what is released when they've shown plenty of stuff that is being worked behind the doors is deceitful posting or simply ignorant, as is the idea that if you spend X time on making 1 space station (that involves all the needed R&D, tools development, optimization, testing etc etc) you will take that same amount of time for all the other space stations you do...
And what is the problem with needing one more year to be able to travel to other system while they develop the tech and stuff to go in them? I surely don't want another game where systems are barren empty repetitive balls of different colours or with trading and npc interaction is of minimal engagement.
I don't understand why some people are in such a hurry when all the examples of GOTY material took at least 6+ years in the making from experienced company's.
Learn to be patient or find another hobby besides pesting forums, play video-games for example.
You can't make comparisons to things like Powerplay or Engineers or other "half-asset mechanics" (whatever they are) because people actually get to play with those things and make use of them in game. The things I said were a waste of time from CIG's end are all things that you can't even play with. There is no comparison to be made, at all.... nor is there any guarantee that things CIG do implement won't need to be redone in the future. You seem to be operating on the belief that if they take longer and get it right now then they'll be set forever more but how often does that realistically happen, even with the best planning.
Judging a game on what has been delivered is not decietful or ignorant, it is the only real measure that can be taken. What is decietful is saying that CIG's in house stuff is the game. Until it is in backers' hands it is practically worthless.
There's nothing wrong with another year, it's just amusing that this mega studio with its record amount of crowdfunding and insane levels of braggadocio needs 6 years to make more than 1 star system... you want to take snipes at Elite but the planets CIG have shown are barren, empty, repetitive balls of different colour with no trading, no NPCs and no enagagement. I'm not sure this is going where you want it to go...
I like that you want to make CIG's failings my issue instead of theirs. They're the ones with 400 people, $145 million up front and 4 1/2 years with sweet FA to show for it. It's certainly not a case of patience.
I'm fine with my games, Zelda, Nier and Elite are keeping me more than occupied, thanks for asking. I hope you're having fun watching CIG play the game you don't have yet.
Edit: I am partly teasing you with this stuff about them not having done sweet FA. I know they've made loads of ships, assets etc. My main issue is that we, the backers, don't have an awful lot to play with right now. I just hope they can deliver 3.0 to remedy that sooner rather than later.
OFC that I can make comparisons with Powerplay and Engineers and other "half-asset mechanics"!
I can do it because yourself are making comparisons between a fully released game and a game in development, so It's game on by your rules.
The things that you mentioned were waste of time ARE playable (Star Marine is released remember?)
You are happily judging unfairly something that normally you wouldn't have access to by any established company, but since you can't or don't want to understand the fact that a work in progress is just that, work in progress that is BOUND to take time and go back in forth before it "feels" good you basically are starting with the ignorant foot.
And I don't really need to take snipes at ED do I? Frontier does that by itself. I would say that both Frontier and ED keep shooting themself s purple lasers in the feet, without aim assist mind you, but they don't even have those members working (legs) so the pun would probably go unnoticed.
Yes they are a released game, but they are not a FINISHED game by any means! They surely don't feel or play like one. And the last 2 years of updates hardly feel like updates (besides planetary landing) PP, ENG and now MultiC show that the scope is shrinking! We're going from Space simulation to handwavium arcade instant travelling holo 3rp shooting action gameplay.
As a backer you are not supposed to have an awful lot to play right now. You are supposed to back and wait until it releases. If you want to give feedback and help development you have the proper official forum to give feedback or report bugs, repeatedly bitching in random forum's about X or Y is an absolute waste of time, yours and readers. Read about making games, they take time and they only really come together and become enjoy-full experiences in the very last months before release.
I think that the number is closer to the 80-90 mark, but we can agree to disagree.
I cant ant disagree with you that CIG has spent more, but we can't say the bank is dry. Based on their employee curve they are more likely in the 90-100 range with a 25-30 million annual burn rate. So they probably have enough gas at this point to get to mid 2018. So I guess we will only have to debate on here for another year
Value is very subjective. I spent more on Hex than I did on SC, so my value is very easily made back. For those who have spent in the thousands... I really hope they find value at some point.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Err you ought to read what you write, I am not the one making comparisons. It is yourself amongst others who were bringing up Elite / Frontier and making comparisons. Go back through the thread and you will see that it is not me who is brings up another game to justify Star Citizen's delays. Get your facts straight.
You can say those things about Elite and that's perfectly fair, they do make mistakes but this is about Star Citizen not what some other company is or isn't doing. Just because you feel Frontier make mistakes does not justify CIG doing so or blowing their targets or failing to deliver...
And again with the stuff about Elite.... you seem to want to take the "Look, look at them, don't look at me..." approach now. It's fine that you don't like Elite and what they're doing with the game, that's entirely up to you because taste is subjective.
Your snipe about arcadey-ness is daft because in Star Citizen you have ships that pop up from thin air, you have characters that run full speed in space with magboots etc.
As a backer I was meant to have 3.0 and 3.1 by now so you can't tell me I should not have a lot of game to play with.
Telling me that I should be quiet and only post feedback or reports bugs is naff, would you say the same about positive comments or is it only reserved for comments you don't like. Perhaps try posting a thread on the subreddit telling people they should only be posting bugs or giving feedback on the official forums and not discussing anything else about the game because you said so....
You really wanna mention ships that pop up from thin air when Frontier creates fluff npc pirates out of nothing constantly? And there's no mag boots in star citizen, landing pads and ship's generate their own gravity.
As a backer you are meant to back and that's it, we are entitled to know what's going on with the project and that is done by the weekly shows and conventions. Nobody was forced to back or buy the game as finished on Steam. Intentions are not promises. ED players were supposed to have a offline mode or a 100,000$ Arena CQB tournament just to name some examples and didn't. Didn't pan out for whatever reason, Too bad, things change, move on.
Dude, you posted on the first page of the thread, you've been here virtually from the start so I don't know how you can say you just recently joined the discussion.
Yes, all companies make mistakes however it seems some make many, many more mistakes than others and of a much higher severity than others. Some don't seem to learn from their mistakes either. I single out Star Citizen because I am a backer and it is of interest to me, plus they regularly make mistakes which I feel are not acceptable, they make all these wild claims (to bolster income) and then fail on a lot of them etc. And so what if I complain about these things, I have every right to do so. I also post threads about the interesting stuff that CIG do. It's not totally one-sided.
As a backer you can be as critical as you like, there's no "You're just meant to back and that's it."
If you're just meant to back then why is it ok for prople to post promo material but not criticism, that's just so biased.
Elite hoped to have that offline mode, it wasn't implemented because of the way they did the Background Simultation stuff, Frontier told people (far too late imo) and issued refunds, you know this. If you honestly felt that this was really a case of "too bad, things change, move on" then why are you bringing it up 3 years later.... if something is meant to be a bygone then it seems a bit duplictious to use it as a stick when it suits you.
Yes, you have every right to stomp your feet around like an entitled child. Also, please don't act like you post things that are pro-SC. Every time that ED releases something, you're gushing over it likes it's the best fucking thing since sliced bread, but every SC thread you post into is, generally, negative.
Listen, Offline mode isn't the only feature that ED failed to deliver. There is a veritable laundry list of things that have yet to be delivered that were promised to backers. HOWEVER!! If someone at CIG happens to piss on the toilet seat, we should probably blow it up like the sky is falling.
You post ZERO negative or critical posts regarding ED and nearly 100% of your posts with regards to SC are bitching about something. It's fucking hilarious because you sit there and talk about how Offline mode was an ED fuck up, but then scold someone for bringing it up 3 years later, lol. Meanwhile, just before that you're talking about the cumulative mistakes made by CIG over the project.
Yes! We get it! You LOVE ED! Also, yes, we get it, you are an SC "backer". Honestly, it's like the whole argument "I can't be racist! I have a friend who's black!" Like why don't we just be honest here?
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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So being critical of certain aspects of the game or its crowdfunding method now equates "stomping my feet like an entitled child".... you must to be very thin skinned to let such comments result in such a hyperbolic reaction.
Every time... really? Just LOL, just stop with the hyperbolic bullshit already. There are a few videos, screenshots and threads that I post when they have something newsworthy going on. That's it.
I make posts about the not so good things in Elite, especially when someone is asking should they get the base game or the expansion, I don't just gush with praise over it.
I make threads on here about good stuff SC does as well as negative things, my posts however are largely critical and I get argumentative with those that want to paint the whole project as though they can do no wrong and any excuse is acceptable for CIG/SC. So again, yet more hyperbolic bullshit.
Dude I'm not even playing Elite at the moment, haven't played properly for 3 months or more now bar a small bit of beta testing. I'll jump back in when 2.3 hits. It's just a game to me not some surrogate religion.
What's funny here is that rather than discussing Star Citizen, you and Babuinix want to make it an Elite vs Star Citizen thing, and you in particular want to make it about me, rather than what I write (a recurring subject with you).
It seems you get very personal about this rather than keeping it about the posts themselves. Very amusing.
If my posts upset you so much then do yourself a favour and put me on ignore, it will save you from being upset all the time because I have no intention of stopping my criticism.
I was curious about this because I have seen a few threads started by @rpmcmurphy that are most definitely positive and/or informative.
There is probably an even split between positive and negative, perhaps even slightly weighted towards the positive side of things, ie
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/461838/boredgamers-visit-to-foundry42-uk
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/460882/ptu-patch-notes-for-2-6-1-released
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/460761/regional-servers-incoming
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459863/star-citizen-player-stats-unofficial
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/457260/cig-the-challenges-of-making-game-demos
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/457229/ask-a-game-dev-procedural-planets-v2-analysis
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/456669/interview-s-with-gamersnexus-citizencon-procgen-v2-alpha-3-0-etc
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/456197/atv-3-6
So when he said "I also post threads about the interesting stuff that CIG do." he was not incorrect.
Fair enough. Literally he wasn't incorrect, but let's not act like he's an objective overseer. If he's objective then @Erillion must also be objective.
It isn't a matter of the posts made, but the assumptions made, while giving a pass to other companies. You can't say that one company has made mistakes that are not acceptable when you have zero context surrounding what mistakes have even been made, how they were handled, and what sort of mitigation was put in place to handle it. Also, people use zero frame of reference when it comes to these arguments.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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