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Crowdfunded MMORPGs [STATUS]

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 18,576
    There is a bit misleading information here but i would hope to god most people fully understand what is going on.

    Alpha/Bets is only a term it actually has no factual way to define it aside from what the developer themselves call it.

    The term Alpha has been used to start the modern gimmick of getting players to pay for and accept unfinished and unacceptable work.Devs often in the past just made excuses or took a lot of criticism,now it is super easy for their PR guy to just say .."hey it's Alpha"

    I have one hing to say to that.If YOU the developer KNOWS your product is not fit for sale,unfinished work,you have no business asking a single dime to play it.On top of that ,you should NOT have any cash shop either because if the game was truly in the testing phase,it should have a full wipe and game restarted when properly tested and functional.
    Truth is,these very sneaky,misleading devs do not care about integrity of their game,their ONLY goal is to get your money.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    Wizardry said:
    There is a bit misleading information here but i would hope to god most people fully understand what is going on.

    Alpha/Bets is only a term it actually has no factual way to define it aside from what the developer themselves call it.

    The term Alpha has been used to start the modern gimmick of getting players to pay for and accept unfinished and unacceptable work.Devs often in the past just made excuses or took a lot of criticism,now it is super easy for their PR guy to just say .."hey it's Alpha"
    Funny coincidence, two hours ago we were discussing that exact subject on reddit:
    "Also there's no consensus for the appellation of every milestone or phase of development in the video game industry. Some studios call their feature-complete and mostly polished products "Pre-Alpha" for marketing reasons, while others, like [...], tend to go in the opposite direction because of their past commitments, as you've mentioned."


    JamesGoblin
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    GladDog said:
    You forgot City of Titans, which had a very successful kickstarter.

    http://cityoftitans.com/
    I added that one and Valiance Online, which is a competitor to CoT if I understood correctly. Both seem stuck in development since a long long time. They should probably merge. =P
    JamesGoblin
  • xyzercrimexyzercrime Member RarePosts: 878
    edited March 2017
    Oh, one more, The Adventure of Simba in Neverland:



    http://itsalreadydeadjim.com/



    When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,079
    GladDog said:
    You forgot City of Titans, which had a very successful kickstarter.

    http://cityoftitans.com/
    I added that one and Valiance Online, which is a competitor to CoT if I understood correctly. Both seem stuck in development since a long long time. They should probably merge. =P
    Nah, they are going in completely different directions, which is good IMO.  They are looking for different fan bases with only minimal overlap.  The only things they really have in common is a superhero theme with a robust costume designer.

    Also, another CoH successor, Ship of Heroes, is having a Kickstarter 4Apr2017.  http://www.shipofheroes.com/


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • irpugbossirpugboss Member UncommonPosts: 427
    I work with game, web and software devs. There is a reason for Pre-alpha, alpha, beta, etc. despite some of the understandably deserved cynical beliefs.

    This covers it fairly well, so no need to type out the concept behind the stages of software development.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

    So do some game devs misname their stages, probably. Do some devs try to milk money from CF, Alpha, etc. most likely.

    Most however I bet are inexperienced project managers and are thrust from being an enthusiastic game developer into a small/medium sized business owner with a sudden influx of cash and business responsibilities for a very demanding audience.

    Sure you may reasonably say, well if they are such noobs they shouldn't ask for money! Well consider there are those (such as myself) who are willing to gamble on a big dream and some promising demos, experience or backgrounds. So if the market is willing to pay them then they definitely should ask for the money and learn as they go. All in the hopes of pulling it off where there would not likely be a realistic chance without such funding.

    Without crowdfunding we would be stuck with little innovation for MMOs. Being that they are too costly in time and money on top of risk towards ROI for publishers and investors to really grow the genre as it needs to. So if it is in a bad state now for most of you, it would be even worse off without crowdfunding.

    Hopefully the first larger projects from more distinguished teams make it across the finish line and make enough revenue to improve. So players get a game, the genre gets some more fuel towards innovation/features to draw upon and the devs are rewarded for their risks doing this job vs taking more lucrative and safer career options.

    image
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member RarePosts: 654
    im defo in the wrong business.

    earning easy money:

    step 1:
    make  a website

    Step 2:
    post a lore with couple of mmorpg pics..

    step 3:
    Mention SWG/UO sandbox on your website

    step 4:
    start kickstarter/crowdfunding campaign

    step 4:
    use some HTML bots to you get shit greenlited on steam

    step 5 : 
    watch your bank account crow steady doing nothing.


  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited February 11
    krage said:
    Without crowdfunding we would be stuck with little innovation for MMOs. Being that they are too costly in time and money on top of risk towards ROI for publishers and investors to really grow the genre as it needs to. So if it is in a bad state now for most of you, it would be even worse off without crowdfunding.
    edit (2021): Concerning innovations, Indie MMORPGs indeed created many innovative systems and features. For example CF with its world generation tools that players can use to create their own personal map, or their building kits to build personalized castles and forts, or the unique campaigns that can be generated on the fly with their own set of rules. Let alone the optimization of the Unity Engine to enable large-scale battles and massive worlds. CU, also innovate on many fronts: 5,000 players and bots in a single spot at acceptable frame rate and networking, block-by-block construction, stability and destruction, AIR system that allows projectile collisions and special effects, the ability builder system to create abilities out of components, etc.

    (2017) I disagree. Most of the crowdfunded projects show very little innovations compared to traditionally funded MMORPGs (EVE Online, TERA, ArcheAge, BDO, TSW, DFO, etc.). In the opposite, I think they're often just recreating old games with a few new mechanics that often already exist in other games.

    Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are the big exceptions I guess, but it's probably more due to their massive funding and their genre (space sims) than the fact they've been crowdfunded.

    If anything, I believe crowdfunding generally hinders innovation, because with so little money, the studios barely have enough dev resources to pull off new and complex systems.

    We often hear the studios claiming that their crowdfunded game is so innovative that publishers won't take the risk to fund it, or that they will lose creative control over the project, but the main reasons I guess are: 1) publishers rarely want to fund some remakes of old games that caters to a small, nostalgic audience because it's financially very risky 2) crowdfunding is free money with little obligations to deliver anything.
    Post edited by francis_baud on
    JamesGoblin
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,163
    Tamanous said:
    Recore said:
    I called it. 
    You called that some projects would fail ... 

    Not some but all.  ;)
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited March 2017
    So the crowdfunded MMORPG I had most confidence it would meet its deadlines just announced a delay on Alpha lol.


    Chronicles of Elyria and Saga of Lucimia are the only remaining contestants. o,o

    JamesGoblin
  • DrDread74DrDread74 Member UncommonPosts: 308
    krage said:
    I work with game, web and software devs. There is a reason for Pre-alpha, alpha, beta, etc. despite some of the understandably deserved cynical beliefs.

    This covers it fairly well, so no need to type out the concept behind the stages of software development.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_release_life_cycle

    So do some game devs misname their stages, probably. Do some devs try to milk money from CF, Alpha, etc. most likely.

    Most however I bet are inexperienced project managers and are thrust from being an enthusiastic game developer into a small/medium sized business owner with a sudden influx of cash and business responsibilities for a very demanding audience.

    Sure you may reasonably say, well if they are such noobs they shouldn't ask for money! Well consider there are those (such as myself) who are willing to gamble on a big dream and some promising demos, experience or backgrounds. So if the market is willing to pay them then they definitely should ask for the money and learn as they go. All in the hopes of pulling it off where there would not likely be a realistic chance without such funding.

    Without crowdfunding we would be stuck with little innovation for MMOs. Being that they are too costly in time and money on top of risk towards ROI for publishers and investors to really grow the genre as it needs to. So if it is in a bad state now for most of you, it would be even worse off without crowdfunding.

    Hopefully the first larger projects from more distinguished teams make it across the finish line and make enough revenue to improve. So players get a game, the genre gets some more fuel towards innovation/features to draw upon and the devs are rewarded for their risks doing this job vs taking more lucrative and safer career options.


    So Krage, what do you do? You work with Game Devs?

    Related to this topic: I'm working on a game right now, its in open beta. Not exactly an action MMO, more like Astro Empires or OGame. I've had 1000 people sign up. About 100 people playing it right now. Which sounds impressive considering other ACTUAL MMOs have zero players =)

    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/

    I had a small kickstarter, made like $3000, enough to pay artists. I agree with Krage when it comes to "noobness". I've been toying with this game for years. I honestly thought I would of been ready to launch like 6 months ago but its been steadily getting closer. Only a handful of features/fixes remaining and I hope to go live in a couple months.

    I'm just one guy with a small project (which hopefully EXPLODES!). I can imagine a larger project with a group of developers and several moving parts can get bogged down. Seemingly simple features need a dozen other pieces to work and nothing ever goes completely bug free.

    I think the real time sink is when you play the game with others and realize there is something wrong and part of the game needs a revamp and six more features need to be expanded on to make it work. It goes around for months but eventually settles on something cool.In a big project its probably a lot harder to make shifts like that or they realize that the game they are making is fundamentally crap and give up.

    Crowdfunding was a big help, motivational if anything else. A lot of "fans" out there validating the hard work you put into it. A lot of people are willing to pay just to see something new and innovative come to life. I hope that happens more often =)


    http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/
     An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
  • VutarVutar Member UncommonPosts: 928
    Now post the list of MMOs that were announced and not crowdfunded during that same time period. I suspect the list will not be that different.
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 2,121
    Bezos should invest in Pantheon, CU & Crowfall and put them under AGS but allow them to remain their own company like how he did with Zappos.

    Imagine having all of those people under one roof + Smed & C&C guy will be a all star line-up and all the counsel for Amazon games he'll ever need.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited March 2017
    BruceYee said:
    Bezos should invest in Pantheon, CU & Crowfall and put them under AGS but allow them to remain their own company like how he did with Zappos.

    Imagine having all of those people under one roof + Smed & C&C guy will be a all star line-up and all the counsel for Amazon games he'll ever need.
    That'd be great. I was thinking, after they announced they would sell games directly on Twitch, how AGS could create a portal to distribute the most popular upcoming indie MMORPGs (CU, SC, etc.) before those studios sign an agreement with Valve.

    Another thing is, considering Star Citizen now uses Lumberyard and it seems to be their engine's flagship for now, I bet Amazon will make sure CIG has enough funding to ship a viable product.
    JamesGoblin
  • DabOnThemDabOnThem Member UncommonPosts: 141
    IceAge said:
    This tells a lot about .. today's "MMO's" .

    Oh well . Good times are gone ..
    Yea, the OP did a great job and the thread is informative, but sad at the same time.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited February 12
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 5 launched and 15 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so balancing, fixes and polish are expected until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    Post edited by francis_baud on
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,182
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 4 launched and 16 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so only improvements, fixes and polish should await the players until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    I thought Project Gorgon was out already.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    Ungood said:
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 4 launched and 16 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so only improvements, fixes and polish should await the players until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    I thought Project Gorgon was out already.
    Hmm the Steam page still says "Early Access" and in June 2020 they have written: "Project: Gorgon hasnt left beta but, rather, we had a separate secondary beta client that was running on an updated version of Unity that we closed as we pushed the update live. That was the beta that we were referring to with that specific tweet."

    They must be very close to launch though.
    Ungood
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 5,182
    Ungood said:
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 4 launched and 16 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so only improvements, fixes and polish should await the players until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    I thought Project Gorgon was out already.
    Hmm the Steam page still says "Early Access" and in June 2020 they have written: "Project: Gorgon hasnt left beta but, rather, we had a separate secondary beta client that was running on an updated version of Unity that we closed as we pushed the update live. That was the beta that we were referring to with that specific tweet."

    They must be very close to launch though.
    I was just positing on a LOTRO topic, so I read that a Pippen saying "Does he know about Second Breakfast" in regards to Second Beta.. made myself laugh.. 
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited February 12
    Ungood said:
    Ungood said:
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 4 launched and 16 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so only improvements, fixes and polish should await the players until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    I thought Project Gorgon was out already.
    Hmm the Steam page still says "Early Access" and in June 2020 they have written: "Project: Gorgon hasnt left beta but, rather, we had a separate secondary beta client that was running on an updated version of Unity that we closed as we pushed the update live. That was the beta that we were referring to with that specific tweet."

    They must be very close to launch though.
    I was just positing on a LOTRO topic, so I read that a Pippen saying "Does he know about Second Breakfast" in regards to Second Beta.. made myself laugh.. 
    lol yea, it's slightly different. Just rewatched the short clip with Pippin saying that, it's been a while since I watched LOTR.

    (I removed the original ETA from the OP.)
    Ungood
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 14,534
    Cancelled, stalled, shut down this is grim reading. Has not SOTA launched, well what passes for a launch?
    francis_baud

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  • francis_baudfrancis_baud Member RarePosts: 330
    edited February 12
    Scot said:
    Cancelled, stalled, shut down this is grim reading. Has not SOTA launched, well what passes for a launch?
    Oops, you're right! I've edited the info for SOTA, as it indeed launched in 2018.

    It may seem grim at first glance but in a few years I guess most of the projects still in development will have launched (hopefully). Also, out of 5 released MMORPGs, there are very successful projects (Elite: Dangerous and Albion Online) and SOTA has sold +200K of copies on Steam. 
    Scot
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,501
    Ungood said:
    Updated the OP

    Out of 29 projects, 9 cancelled/stalled, 4 launched and 16 are still in development.

    5 projects that I'm confident will release in 2021-2022, in no particular order:
    • Crowfall
    • Camelot Unchained
    • Dual Universe
    • Gloria Victis
    • Project Gorgon
    CF, GV and Project Gorgon seem to be feature complete at this point, so only improvements, fixes and polish should await the players until launch afaik. DU and CU still have a lot of work ahead, but the progress done is huge so I'm pretty confident it's not so far away. 
    I thought Project Gorgon was out already.
    Hmm the Steam page still says "Early Access" and in June 2020 they have written: "Project: Gorgon hasnt left beta but, rather, we had a separate secondary beta client that was running on an updated version of Unity that we closed as we pushed the update live. That was the beta that we were referring to with that specific tweet."

    They must be very close to launch though.

    Project:Gorgon had been playable for quite some time before it came on Steam, but there are very few working on it and I doubt they will consider it ready to leave early access any time soon.

    There is still plenty to do compared to many early titles though so if one doesn't mind the rough aesthetics, clunky interface, and oddly low performance in the town of Serbule, it's worth a look.
    francis_baud
  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member RarePosts: 1,501
    Scot said:
    Cancelled, stalled, shut down this is grim reading. Has not SOTA launched, well what passes for a launch?

    It did, but floundered since. The game has some interesting elements but enough issues otherwise that I eventually gave up on it, for now at least.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,218
    Still not seeing Ashes of Creation which some might argue has moved up to the front of the pack with their alpha supposedly happening "soon."


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

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