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Another thing from EQ I don't want to see

13

Comments

  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,897
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    To me, the OP opinion is way off. 

    I personally want the hotspot. I want zones where loot is good, but the xp might be lesser. I want spots where the XP is awesome and loot is bland.  

    That mentality spaces people out more.

    IF a zone has good loot and good xp... then it is always packed. Even more so if it is an end game zone...


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Mendel said:
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?
    I do too. I'm guessing we'll see this happen to some degree, because one of the races is actually aquatic.


  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Mendel said:
    The original EQ had quite a variety of underwater environments.   But the various oceans were mostly sand, with only a few interesting locales.  There weren't enough shipwrecks (a few around Erud's Crossing), and definitely not enough coral reefs.   I really enjoyed places where it was necessary to swim underwater, but it came off as floating a bit too often.  There weren't any strong currents to cross and the water was always too clear.  Weeds or sediment or something to close down visibility to make a real claustrophobic experience (and give all those vision buffs something to do).

    I hope that Pantheon follows in the EQ mold and includes lots of water to swim in.  But I hope they make the swimming experience a bit more robust.  And let me fish from a moving boat, how about it?

    I used to really like Kedge Keep.  What a pain it was at times, but still very atmospheric - murky and dark.  God help you if you wiped in there :)
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,835
    No "hotspots" are a terrible idea,been there seen it first hand it is nothing but anger and chaos.

    The best idea is to have lots of CHOICE,if one area is too good then everyone will be there,how is that good at all?
    I have actually seen groups call GM's to complain about being there first and that others should leave instead of camping on top of them.

    choice choice and more choice ,in every facet of game design,from choice of weapons,choice of combos,choice of armor,choice of camping spot etc etc.

    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    I used to love making my way to the western waste to get to Dragon Necropolis. At the entrance you would get mobs called phase spiders and every so often one would drop an item called phase spider carapiece. 

    This was a rare chest piece that was great for my Beastlord and sold for good plat in Nexus. 


    As for zones with water well also in Eastern Wastes there was a zone called sirens grotto which had some nice clicky items in. 

    The zone was full of water ways, I have no doubt Pantheon will have similar spots. Thing is I never used to see anyone in both these zones. 




  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    Its not a real choice if all the zones are the same.  Different stuff should drop in different camps, and some camps should be good loot and some camps good xp. 

    Just dont make that so extreme that there is only one camp worth doing.  Im thinking of Najena where there was a line 20 long for a camp for journeyman boots.  Dont do that.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    svann said:
    Its not a real choice if all the zones are the same.  Different stuff should drop in different camps, and some camps should be good loot and some camps good xp. 

    Just dont make that so extreme that there is only one camp worth doing.  Im thinking of Najena where there was a line 20 long for a camp for journeyman boots.  Dont do that.


    You could also get journey boots camp in Desert Of Ro, Oasis Of Mar. If you were smart you wouldn't have 20 long for camp. 

    Plus isn't that the point of not having everything handed to you, I would log on at funny hours and plan my camps. 

    More fun imo. 




  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    If anyone was not around for Original/Kunark/Velious then they have no real knowledge of how good EQ was at that point in history. EQ was about control and patience... control in pulling, control in healing, control in dealing with adds... DPS was only a factor in raid fights as a damage-to-healing time factor.

    Things like procs, resists, buffs were all very important... much more so over DPS in EQs prime. 
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    svann said:
    Its not a real choice if all the zones are the same.  Different stuff should drop in different camps, and some camps should be good loot and some camps good xp. 

    Just dont make that so extreme that there is only one camp worth doing.  Im thinking of Najena where there was a line 20 long for a camp for journeyman boots.  Dont do that.


    You could also get journey boots camp in Desert Of Ro, Oasis Of Mar.


    Not at first you couldnt.  They added that because the Najena camp was such a cluster-xxxx.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    edited March 2017
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,127
    DAoC had one of the best design philosophies in regards to dishing out XP to players. Farm a certain area enough, mobs give less XP. Find an area that's rarely touched and you actually get bonus XP or as DAoC referred to as camp bonus. Eventually, that camp bonus XP would dissipate as well.

    In all honesty, I think DAoC PvE design was spot on to promote healthy group content as well as content for people to solo. Let's be honest folks, the only content that should be group focused is dungeon raids. As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    edited March 2017
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 

     HIghest roll of the diece won in my guild. 




  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 


    In EQ kill stealing was against the rules and repeated offenses was a valid reason to contact a GM/Guilde.


    Repeated offenses could get you banned.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 

     HIghest roll of the diece won in my guild. 

    DKP in my guild, but what he was talking about was in-game mechanics for more than one group killing the same mob.


    i.e. kill stealing

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    svann said:
    Its not a real choice if all the zones are the same.  Different stuff should drop in different camps, and some camps should be good loot and some camps good xp. 

    Just dont make that so extreme that there is only one camp worth doing.  Im thinking of Najena where there was a line 20 long for a camp for journeyman boots.  Dont do that.


    You could also get journey boots camp in Desert Of Ro, Oasis Of Mar. If you were smart you wouldn't have 20 long for camp. 

    Plus isn't that the point of not having everything handed to you, I would log on at funny hours and plan my camps. 

    More fun imo. 
    I remember setting my alarm for odd hours in the morning to check some camps. As much as a pain that was, it was actually fun too.

    As far as "smart", I think that the internet has dumbed it down and allowed so many people to just look up something and go there immediately as opposed to truly having to learn what was where.

    I am going to do my best to not do any online research (besides the Lore stuff on RotF's website) and just experience the game as if I was really in the world. That was how EQ was to me and to many other games were trivialized with spoilers, or hell, even the "?" over quest givers heads.

    Make it hard but also don't make it totally random.

    Caseyx

  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    Rhoklaw said:
    DAoC had one of the best design philosophies in regards to dishing out XP to players. Farm a certain area enough, mobs give less XP. Find an area that's rarely touched and you actually get bonus XP or as DAoC referred to as camp bonus. Eventually, that camp bonus XP would dissipate as well.

    In all honesty, I think DAoC PvE design was spot on to promote healthy group content as well as content for people to solo. Let's be honest folks, the only content that should be group focused is dungeon raids. As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.
    I disagree about the solo content. For a lot of us, particularly the old EQers, we have families and other commitments now. My best memories come from EQ guilds and groups. In the last 10 years of MMO's that made soloing so easy, I ended up soloing because it was easier and a lot less hassle trying to organize my friends to get online at the same time, or stay close in level, similar quest lines, etc.

    There def should be solo content and some grinding spots, maybe even dungeons designed for solo players, but I really hope they stick to their guns and make groups way more mandatory than anything I've played in the last 5 years.

    It will help build the community.

    Anyone else thing the LFG systems are too shallow and only help the player but don't help build much of the server community?

    I am going to start organizing some of my old guildies and if that fails, I will be looking for a small to medium size guild with similar time issues but the same desire to bring back the good ole days. 

    Caseyx

  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 


    In EQ kill stealing was against the rules and repeated offenses was a valid reason to contact a GM/Guilde.


    Repeated offenses could get you banned.

    And if the game is group based and soloing really will be tougher, that kill stealing jerk will become a pariah or will never become a KSer because word will spread. Insta-groups and easy soloing just allow for more of that.

    That being said, I would prefer that KSing be possible, along with trains (TRAIN!!!) and let the community help police the jerks.

    I am not a KSer and never will be, but it does add some spice to the game when you set a vendetta against some jackass. I remember keeping a handwritten list of names of people I owed some payback too.

    A little chaos is fun.

    Caseyx

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Rhoklaw said:
     As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.
    I strongly disagree, and when I say disagree, I mean that statement is factually incorrect based on all available evidence.

    The problem with people being able to level up entirely by themselves is that it detracts from the social challenge in the game, making everything easier. In the end, it's largely responsible for people being able to rush through quickly, and never becoming attached to the world itself or it's inhabitants (other players). Without that bond with the world when the player truly appreciates the challenge and the people required to overcome it, players simply jump to the next game as soon as it becomes available.


  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,541
    Dullahan said:
    Rhoklaw said:
     As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.
    I strongly disagree, and when I say disagree, I mean that statement is factually incorrect based on all available evidence.

    The problem with people being able to level up entirely by themselves is that it detracts from the social challenge in the game, making everything easier. In the end, it's largely responsible for people being able to rush through quickly, and never becoming attached to the world itself or it's inhabitants (other players). Without that bond with the world when the player truly appreciates the challenge and the people required to overcome it, players simply jump to the next game as soon as it becomes available.
    They said there will be solo content. IMO there should be a fair bit of solo content but I also think the exp should be much slower, give lesser rewards and make you want to team to get the bigger exp and rewards. I hate doing nothing when I am LFG. 
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 

     HIghest roll of the diece won in my guild. 

    DKP in my guild, but what he was talking about was in-game mechanics for more than one group killing the same mob.


    i.e. kill stealing

    Not always killstealing.  If 2 groups get to the mob at the same time the way the server displays information it may appear to each of them that they got there first.  You dont always know.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    Caseyx said:
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 


    In EQ kill stealing was against the rules and repeated offenses was a valid reason to contact a GM/Guilde.


    Repeated offenses could get you banned.

    And if the game is group based and soloing really will be tougher, that kill stealing jerk will become a pariah or will never become a KSer because word will spread. Insta-groups and easy soloing just allow for more of that.

    First, I want to clarify that Im not the ks'er.  I know you never said that but I just want to be clear.

    2nd, you talk about a group game and that "that kill stealing jerk" will have a hard time soloing.  But the fact is that groups are usually the guilty party when it comes to ks'ing.  Almost 100%. 
  • CaseyxCaseyx Member UncommonPosts: 15
    svann said:
    Caseyx said:
    svann said:
    fs23otm said:
    Wizardry said:
    The EQ series failed in that respect because it was simplified to be nothing more than best dps wins ,so everyone wants the exact same weapons.You need to create reasons for choice,different types of mobs,i noticed peeps want water zones,so be it then have aquatic and need for Thunder/Lightning type effects/weapons and water resistant armor.
    This is the time i mention another term i always use >>DEPTH in systems.If you simply aim for DPS,then say goodbye to a good game and say hello to same old boring crap.
    Choice is an illusion, and EQ did not fail in that respect. Pre-WOW, EQ was never best dps wins. 

    I think your memory is faulty.  In EQ best dps (technically it was most damage done) always won the loot rights, and still does.  In WOW first tag wins loot rights.  Both systems have problems tbh. 


    In EQ kill stealing was against the rules and repeated offenses was a valid reason to contact a GM/Guilde.


    Repeated offenses could get you banned.

    And if the game is group based and soloing really will be tougher, that kill stealing jerk will become a pariah or will never become a KSer because word will spread. Insta-groups and easy soloing just allow for more of that.

    First, I want to clarify that Im not the ks'er.  I know you never said that but I just want to be clear.

    2nd, you talk about a group game and that "that kill stealing jerk" will have a hard time soloing.  But the fact is that groups are usually the guilty party when it comes to ks'ing.  Almost 100%. 
    Good point about bands of jerks. I do remember single KSer's being a bigger problem when I was below level 30. Of course it was pretty crazy back then when your corpse wasnt locked down too.

    Either way, I'd rather the game mechanics not be the sole factor in stopping or dealing with these types of players. Sorta like real life...don't tread on me, LOL.

    Caseyx

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Nanfoodle said:
    Dullahan said:
    Rhoklaw said:
     As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.
    I strongly disagree, and when I say disagree, I mean that statement is factually incorrect based on all available evidence.

    The problem with people being able to level up entirely by themselves is that it detracts from the social challenge in the game, making everything easier. In the end, it's largely responsible for people being able to rush through quickly, and never becoming attached to the world itself or it's inhabitants (other players). Without that bond with the world when the player truly appreciates the challenge and the people required to overcome it, players simply jump to the next game as soon as it becomes available.
    They said there will be solo content. IMO there should be a fair bit of solo content but I also think the exp should be much slower, give lesser rewards and make you want to team to get the bigger exp and rewards. I hate doing nothing when I am LFG. 
    You seem to be confusing "solo content" in Pantheon, with content designed for solo players.

    All they've said is that Pantheon is designed for groups, but they are not making an effort to prevent or discourage soloing.

    There's a difference, and it's huge.




  • Nightbringe1Nightbringe1 Member UncommonPosts: 1,335
    Dullahan said:
    Rhoklaw said:
     As much as I hate solo artists in MMO's, it doesn't hurt the game to allow people to level up by themselves.
    I strongly disagree, and when I say disagree, I mean that statement is factually incorrect based on all available evidence.

    The problem with people being able to level up entirely by themselves is that it detracts from the social challenge in the game, making everything easier. In the end, it's largely responsible for people being able to rush through quickly, and never becoming attached to the world itself or it's inhabitants (other players). Without that bond with the world when the player truly appreciates the challenge and the people required to overcome it, players simply jump to the next game as soon as it becomes available.


    Even in the early days soloing was possible in EQ.


    It was seldom as efficient as grouping, but it was possible.

    Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
    Benjamin Franklin

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