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  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,597
    Mendel said:
    Okay a question.   Who is doing the lead game system development, and what are their credentials?
    Looks like:

    Jeffrey Bard – Lead Game Designer

    I’m the resident bard, a jack-of-all trades who wears a bunch of hats (even that one, sitting on your head, right now). I write lore and fix our internet when it needs fixing, troubleshoot the untroubleshootable, and make sure that our game actually runs when it doesn’t want to. But primarily, I’m working on making Ashes of Creation. I’ve been doing most of the scripting to get our core systems up and running, as well as carefully curating our lore and storylines. Game design is something I’ve been doing in one way or another since I was six, when I ran my first Dungeons and Dragons campaign. I’m all grown up now though, having worked on some amazing projects with some amazing people. That trend continues with Ashes of Creation and this group we have here at Intrepid Studios – the talent is off the charts, and I’m already amazed at everything we’ve built so far. I cannot wait to share this project with the world.


    LinkedIn last job:

    Game Designer

    Company NameSony Online Entertainment

    Dates EmployedAug 2013 – Apr 2015

    Employment Duration1 yr 9 mos

    LocationSan Diego

    Content Designer for EverQuest II. Primary accomplishments include: successfully evangelizing for new narrative techniques and story hooks, writing over 350 pages of dialog for 200+ quests, and blending those narratives with meaningful mechanical implementation. Deep scripting experience in LUA, including missions, quests, abilities, and encounters, all with a multiplayer (MMO) focus. Worked closely with art and code in the design and implementation of zones and direction of play. 

    Launched Expansion Titles:
    - EverQuest II: Tears of Veeshan
    - EverQuest II: Altar of Mailice

    Launched Game Updates:
    - Darkness Dawns
    - Ages End

    Value Adds: 
    Voice-over work for H1Z1.
    Performance art for SOE Live's fan festival, see link below! (Written and performed by me).

     

    Thanks, but it sorta missed what I was looking for.  He's designing content.  Who's designing the engine beneath the content (for a custom made engine), or what engine are they using and who is designing / making the changes to that platform (for an off-the-shelf-and modify approach)?

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,752
    Mendel said:
    Mendel said:
    Okay a question.   Who is doing the lead game system development, and what are their credentials?
    Looks like:

    Jeffrey Bard – Lead Game Designer

    I’m the resident bard, a jack-of-all trades who wears a bunch of hats (even that one, sitting on your head, right now). I write lore and fix our internet when it needs fixing, troubleshoot the untroubleshootable, and make sure that our game actually runs when it doesn’t want to. But primarily, I’m working on making Ashes of Creation. I’ve been doing most of the scripting to get our core systems up and running, as well as carefully curating our lore and storylines. Game design is something I’ve been doing in one way or another since I was six, when I ran my first Dungeons and Dragons campaign. I’m all grown up now though, having worked on some amazing projects with some amazing people. That trend continues with Ashes of Creation and this group we have here at Intrepid Studios – the talent is off the charts, and I’m already amazed at everything we’ve built so far. I cannot wait to share this project with the world.


    LinkedIn last job:

    Game Designer

    Company NameSony Online Entertainment

    Dates EmployedAug 2013 – Apr 2015

    Employment Duration1 yr 9 mos

    LocationSan Diego

    Content Designer for EverQuest II. Primary accomplishments include: successfully evangelizing for new narrative techniques and story hooks, writing over 350 pages of dialog for 200+ quests, and blending those narratives with meaningful mechanical implementation. Deep scripting experience in LUA, including missions, quests, abilities, and encounters, all with a multiplayer (MMO) focus. Worked closely with art and code in the design and implementation of zones and direction of play. 

    Launched Expansion Titles:
    - EverQuest II: Tears of Veeshan
    - EverQuest II: Altar of Mailice

    Launched Game Updates:
    - Darkness Dawns
    - Ages End

    Value Adds: 
    Voice-over work for H1Z1.
    Performance art for SOE Live's fan festival, see link below! (Written and performed by me).

     

    Thanks, but it sorta missed what I was looking for.  He's designing content.  Who's designing the engine beneath the content (for a custom made engine), or what engine are they using and who is designing / making the changes to that platform (for an off-the-shelf-and modify approach)?
    They are using Unreal 4.

    Their Technical Director is Jason Crawford who was a Sr programmer at Soney for 1 year and a half and prior to that was a software engineer for about 10 years.  Is that what you were asking?

    Jason Crawford – Technical Director

    As Technical Director and principal engineer at Intrepid Studios, I am charged with overseeing the studio’s software development pipeline and the technical design of Ashes of Creation. With over 15 years in the entertainment software industry, I bring vast experience and leadership working in publishing, game design, quality assurance, software engineering, and e-commerce across a multitude of successful indie and major AAA game titles. I am passionate about role-playing games in general and am a regular player of MMOs, single-player JRPGs, and numerous variants of pen-and-paper RPGs. I also enjoy listening to and composing music, working on and customizing my car, building LEGO sets, collecting comic books and manga, and watching vintage and modern Japanese animation.

     

    Their
    • Senior Programmer

      Company NameSony Interactive Entertainment LLC, San Diego Studio

      Dates EmployedFeb 2015 – Sep 2016

      Employment Duration1 yr 8 mos

      LocationSan Diego, CA

      Created core utilities platform for building servers, clients, peer-to-peer meshes, Unity3D native plugins, and various kinds of tools. Designed and implemented critical services for the KillStrain peer-to-peer MOBA-like game as well as for an unreleased game. Provided mentoring for junior, intermediary, and senior engineers alike on C/C++, C#, and advanced peer-to-peer networking concepts.

    • See lessSee less about Senior Programmer, Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC, San Diego Studio
    • Sony Online Entertainment

      Software Engineer

      Company NameSony Online Entertainment

      Dates EmployedMay 2005 – Feb 2015

      Employment Duration9 yrs 10 mos

      LocationGreater San Diego Area

      Client/server engineer for the EverQuest Next and Landmark games. Previously worked on and maintained a PCI-compliant payment processing infrastructure that interfaced with Paymentech, Globalcollect, Steam, Incomm, and many other payment provider services.

      See less


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 9,378
    What's up with all the SOE guys? This probably means nothing in the end since most developers bounce all over this industry. Either way I will remain optimistic and watch this game from afar. 
    SWG Bloodfin vet
    Elder Jedi/Elder Bounty Hunter
     
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 4,597
    Mendel said:
    Mendel said:
    Okay a question.   Who is doing the lead game system development, and what are their credentials?
    Looks like:

    Jeffrey Bard – Lead Game Designer

    I’m the resident bard, a jack-of-all trades who wears a bunch of hats (even that one, sitting on your head, right now). I write lore and fix our internet when it needs fixing, troubleshoot the untroubleshootable, and make sure that our game actually runs when it doesn’t want to. But primarily, I’m working on making Ashes of Creation. I’ve been doing most of the scripting to get our core systems up and running, as well as carefully curating our lore and storylines. Game design is something I’ve been doing in one way or another since I was six, when I ran my first Dungeons and Dragons campaign. I’m all grown up now though, having worked on some amazing projects with some amazing people. That trend continues with Ashes of Creation and this group we have here at Intrepid Studios – the talent is off the charts, and I’m already amazed at everything we’ve built so far. I cannot wait to share this project with the world.


    LinkedIn last job:

    Game Designer

    Company NameSony Online Entertainment

    Dates EmployedAug 2013 – Apr 2015

    Employment Duration1 yr 9 mos

    LocationSan Diego

    Content Designer for EverQuest II. Primary accomplishments include: successfully evangelizing for new narrative techniques and story hooks, writing over 350 pages of dialog for 200+ quests, and blending those narratives with meaningful mechanical implementation. Deep scripting experience in LUA, including missions, quests, abilities, and encounters, all with a multiplayer (MMO) focus. Worked closely with art and code in the design and implementation of zones and direction of play. 

    Launched Expansion Titles:
    - EverQuest II: Tears of Veeshan
    - EverQuest II: Altar of Mailice

    Launched Game Updates:
    - Darkness Dawns
    - Ages End

    Value Adds: 
    Voice-over work for H1Z1.
    Performance art for SOE Live's fan festival, see link below! (Written and performed by me).

     

    Thanks, but it sorta missed what I was looking for.  He's designing content.  Who's designing the engine beneath the content (for a custom made engine), or what engine are they using and who is designing / making the changes to that platform (for an off-the-shelf-and modify approach)?
    They are using Unreal 4.

    Their Technical Director is Jason Crawford who was a Sr programmer at Soney for 1 year and a half and prior to that was a software engineer for about 10 years.  Is that what you were asking?

    Jason Crawford – Technical Director

    As Technical Director and principal engineer at Intrepid Studios, I am charged with overseeing the studio’s software development pipeline and the technical design of Ashes of Creation. With over 15 years in the entertainment software industry, I bring vast experience and leadership working in publishing, game design, quality assurance, software engineering, and e-commerce across a multitude of successful indie and major AAA game titles. I am passionate about role-playing games in general and am a regular player of MMOs, single-player JRPGs, and numerous variants of pen-and-paper RPGs. I also enjoy listening to and composing music, working on and customizing my car, building LEGO sets, collecting comic books and manga, and watching vintage and modern Japanese animation.

     

    Their

    • Senior Programmer

      Company NameSony Interactive Entertainment LLC, San Diego Studio

      Dates EmployedFeb 2015 – Sep 2016

      Employment Duration1 yr 8 mos

      LocationSan Diego, CA

      Created core utilities platform for building servers, clients, peer-to-peer meshes, Unity3D native plugins, and various kinds of tools. Designed and implemented critical services for the KillStrain peer-to-peer MOBA-like game as well as for an unreleased game. Provided mentoring for junior, intermediary, and senior engineers alike on C/C++, C#, and advanced peer-to-peer networking concepts.

    • See lessSee less about Senior Programmer, Sony Interactive Entertainment LLC, San Diego Studio
    Sony Online Entertainment

    Software Engineer

    Company NameSony Online Entertainment

    Dates EmployedMay 2005 – Feb 2015

    Employment Duration9 yrs 10 mos

    LocationGreater San Diego Area

    Client/server engineer for the EverQuest Next and Landmark games. Previously worked on and maintained a PCI-compliant payment processing infrastructure that interfaced with Paymentech, Globalcollect, Steam, Incomm, and many other payment provider services.

    See less


    @Slapshot1188, thanks for that.  One of the other Ashes threads was claiming that IS was planning on using Unreal 4, but modifying it heavily (been reading a bit today).  That is a very tough task they have set for themselves.  I hope Jason Crawford is capable of tackling such an undertaking.  He might have the chops for it, but his resume doesn't really cover the kind of scaling that he's likely to face.  Let's face it, EQ:N and Landmark were never rolled out on a scale like Ashes seems to propose.  I also hope IS isn't planning to let any one person tackle this solo.  I'll be taking an aspirin for your impending headaches, Jason.

    I'd love to see how they're estimating the work and planning the project management aspects of this.  Have they scoped modifying an off-the-shelf engine?  How many functions are they projecting they will need to add / modify, and what difficulties / challenges are known and expected?  That's the kind of stuff I that intrigued me.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,156
    @Kyleran

    Hi Kyle! I appreciate your post, and let me start by saying I also appreciate a skeptic.  I myself, as an mmorpg gamer, am a skeptic.  Not because I want to be, but because my past experiences with developers in this genre have led me to be. Which is partly the reason why I took it upon myself to make an mmorpg.

    So I've taken a real skeptical approach to the many crowdfunded efforts promising to deliver functionality and features which equal or far exceed anything seen before today, all on shoestring budget.
    My studios does not have a "shoestring" budget.  I'm not sure what I said earlier to make you think that, but the amount of resources at my disposal when making this MMO are large.  Comparable to other MMOs that have been made by AAA studios. 

    Kyle> This comment lead me to believe you are operating on a tight budget, Many AAA studios have no need of crowdfunding or private investors, or publishers even to complete the core game.  I realize some studios do rely on publishers for funding and of course have to comply with their master's wishes which hasn't worked out well. 

    "Well to be fair, we have not started crowdfunding yet.  When we reach certain development milestones with the game, we will likely move to a crowdsourcing platform.  There are several reasons for this; First, crowdsourcing allows us to pull necessary capital to create the game without appealing to industry publishers who have led the MMORPG genre to it's current state"
    What I've take so far from your responses is the founders have invested their money to hire people to get things rolling.
    I'm sorry again you have been given this impression.  Ashes of Creation will be completed and has the funding to do so.

    Kyle> This is inconsistent with your previous statement, if you have the funding to complete the envisioned game, you have no further need of crowdfunding or private investors to raise necessary capital (your words)

    You also have stated: "Our budget is not yet determined. We plan to fund the project from Self-funding, Crowdsourcing, and private investors."  Meaning that you do not yet have the funding secured, you only have a plan to obtain funds.
    They do not have the money to complete the game as currently envisioned, and how much will be delivered is TBC pending how much funding can be raised from crowd funding and yet to be secured private investors, large unknowns at this point.
    Again, I am not sure what gave you this impression.  There are not any "large unknowns" for us.  We have funding :)

    Kyle> Well, probably this statement you made, "We have more features that we have not spoken about to the public, and have yet to determine if they will be in the game."  This indicates significant unknowns in my book, you've yet to lock scope, and are waiting for confirmation of funding from multiple and yet unconfirmed funding sources before you do, as stated above.

    Again, I am not on MMORPG.com to change the minds of skeptics.  Our game will do that on its own.  I am just here to answer questions about our game and be involved in the community.  As a gamer, I always wished that the developers were more interactive with the community, so that is what I intend on doing :)

    You may find interacting more with the community to be a lesson in frustration, but it will certainly be an interesting ride.

    ;)



    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    edited February 2017
    @Kyleran I agree with everything you said (well I also have other concerns about the marketing scheme).  I think much of this goes away if theyguarantee to return the money if they don't deliver.  Steven's best answer was the one he didn't try to wordsmith. He simply said "yes" on that topic.  So that gives me hope. 
    I will need to watch the video again but in the QA i thought they said they would give a 15% off a persons subscription or credits towards the cash shop.  I didnt hear them say they would give actual money back.  Now if they did say they will give money back that is questionable.  But to give credit towards their cash shop or a 15% discount for the sub for the month is are not so questionable, its a good marketing method that I wish MMORPGs used years ago when I had a group of friends moving from game to game.  If you remember old school MMORPGs did not have a marketing department, they were marketed by word of mouth.  WOW was the first MMORPG that had commercials on TV. 

    Edit

    Ok they do talk about a money payment.  The questions is this going to be reality or will this be changed when they realized that it will cost more to do this than it is really worth.  It will be up to them to send out information on taxes for people who take money for referring people.  This will require them to have an accounting group that is fairly large for no reason.  It would be more beneficial just to give a 15% tax break on subs per month for every person referred who subs, BUT cap it out at like 45% for the month.  Or give 15% in cash shop credit to someone who a person referred for X amount of months.  Its a good marketing tool to give back to players like myself who bring friends into AOC as a small perk.  

    I also do not fault them for trying something new to try not to have a large marketing group.  Half the time today's marketing groups take over and say "You HAVE TO HAVE AN LFD TOOL OR YOU WILL FAIL!!  Or YOU NEED TO HAVE WOW LIKE LFR RAIDS OR YOU WILL FAIL"   I would rather people like you and I to market the game @Slapshot1188
    vs Marketing managers.  
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,752
    danwest58 said:
    @Kyleran I agree with everything you said (well I also have other concerns about the marketing scheme).  I think much of this goes away if theyguarantee to return the money if they don't deliver.  Steven's best answer was the one he didn't try to wordsmith. He simply said "yes" on that topic.  So that gives me hope. 
    I will need to watch the video again but in the QA i thought they said they would give a 15% off a persons subscription or credits towards the cash shop.  I didnt hear them say they would give actual money back.  Now if they did say they will give money back that is questionable.  But to give credit towards their cash shop or a 15% discount for the sub for the month is are not so questionable, its a good marketing method that I wish MMORPGs used years ago when I had a group of friends moving from game to game.  If you remember old school MMORPGs did not have a marketing department, they were marketed by word of mouth.  WOW was the first MMORPG that had commercials on TV. 
    It's all over their website...
    Refer and invite new players below, to receive 15% of their account purchases in game credits or cash back.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    Kyleran said:
    @Kyleran

    Hi Kyle! I appreciate your post, and let me start by saying I also appreciate a skeptic.  I myself, as an mmorpg gamer, am a skeptic.  Not because I want to be, but because my past experiences with developers in this genre have led me to be. Which is partly the reason why I took it upon myself to make an mmorpg.

    So I've taken a real skeptical approach to the many crowdfunded efforts promising to deliver functionality and features which equal or far exceed anything seen before today, all on shoestring budget.
    My studios does not have a "shoestring" budget.  I'm not sure what I said earlier to make you think that, but the amount of resources at my disposal when making this MMO are large.  Comparable to other MMOs that have been made by AAA studios. 

    Kyle> This comment lead me to believe you are operating on a tight budget, Many AAA studios have no need of crowdfunding or private investors, or publishers even to complete the core game.  I realize some studios do rely on publishers for funding and of course have to comply with their master's wishes which hasn't worked out well. 

    "Well to be fair, we have not started crowdfunding yet.  When we reach certain development milestones with the game, we will likely move to a crowdsourcing platform.  There are several reasons for this; First, crowdsourcing allows us to pull necessary capital to create the game without appealing to industry publishers who have led the MMORPG genre to it's current state"
    What I've take so far from your responses is the founders have invested their money to hire people to get things rolling.
    I'm sorry again you have been given this impression.  Ashes of Creation will be completed and has the funding to do so.

    Kyle> This is inconsistent with your previous statement, if you have the funding to complete the envisioned game, you have no further need of crowdfunding or private investors to raise necessary capital (your words)

    You also have stated: "Our budget is not yet determined. We plan to fund the project from Self-funding, Crowdsourcing, and private investors."  Meaning that you do not yet have the funding secured, you only have a plan to obtain funds.
    They do not have the money to complete the game as currently envisioned, and how much will be delivered is TBC pending how much funding can be raised from crowd funding and yet to be secured private investors, large unknowns at this point.
    Again, I am not sure what gave you this impression.  There are not any "large unknowns" for us.  We have funding :)

    Kyle> Well, probably this statement you made, "We have more features that we have not spoken about to the public, and have yet to determine if they will be in the game."  This indicates significant unknowns in my book, you've yet to lock scope, and are waiting for confirmation of funding from multiple and yet unconfirmed funding sources before you do, as stated above.

    Again, I am not on MMORPG.com to change the minds of skeptics.  Our game will do that on its own.  I am just here to answer questions about our game and be involved in the community.  As a gamer, I always wished that the developers were more interactive with the community, so that is what I intend on doing :)

    You may find interacting more with the community to be a lesson in frustration, but it will certainly be an interesting ride.

    ;)



    He seems pretty committed to the idea. He's been answering questions in the community Discord nearly daily for a while now. It's a treasure trove of information.

    https://discord.gg/j3BFdbZ
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    edited February 2017
    Kyleran said:
    @Slapshot1188
    Did you make your money through MLM?
     Though my primary sources of income are real-estate and investments.

    Why are you Crowdfunding?  Is it because you need the money or is it because you want to leverage it for marketing?
    Well to be fair, we have not started crowdfunding yet.  When we reach certain development milestones with the game, we will likely move to a crowdsourcing platform.  There are several reasons for this; First, crowdsourcing allows us to pull necessary capital to create the game without appealing to industry publishers who have led the MMORPG genre to it's current state. We are fully aware and agree that the downfall of many of the MMO’s that have come out recently are a result of flagrant pay2win strategies from their monetization process. We will not follow in those footsteps. Second, there is no more involved and dedicated community than those who arise from crowdsourcing.  It is a reciprocal relationship between our studios depending on the necessary testing and development of early backers, and being able to have that dialogue with people who are as invested as we are in the success of the project. Third, We want to be able to offer people who see our project early and decide to back it with unique in-game cosmetics and alpha/beta access.
    What is the budget for the game?  What are the planned sources (% self funded/crowdfunded/other investors)

    Our budget is not yet determined. We plan to fund the project from Self-funding, Crowdsourcing, and private investors.

    How much of that do you have in hand today?

    Alot.

    Also, be honest with proposed delivery dates, these are 4 year efforts so any talk of allowing alpha access in a year or two (to paid backers only if course) looks to be a scheme to raise funds to finish the game which so far has failed to work except for a couple of titles.

    I'm not sure if they've given any actual delivery dates yet, not even Alpha dates? But I do know they have a playable pre-Alpha client (I think they've been working on the game for over a year, it's just that we only just now heard about it). All of their videos are gameplay videos from that client, including the recent combat video. So the idea of an Alpha in a year is realistic.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,922
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    ....
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,156
    edited February 2017
    YashaX said:
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    I'd be interested to know what you think is shady about the cash back program?

    Aside from it could result in people over promoting the game, but then folks on these forums do it all the time for free it seems.

    Wish CCP had a cash back program.

    Oh yes, "what's in your wallet?" ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,922
    Kyleran said:
    YashaX said:
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    I'd be interested to know what you think is shady about the cash back program?

    Aside from it could result in people over promoting the game, but then folks on these forums do it all the time for free it seems.

    Wish CCP had a cash back program.

    Oh yes, "what's in your wallet?" ;)

    You don't see a difference between people who enjoy a game telling others about it and people getting paid to spread lies? 
    ....
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,708
    YashaX said:
    Kyleran said:
    YashaX said:
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    I'd be interested to know what you think is shady about the cash back program?

    Aside from it could result in people over promoting the game, but then folks on these forums do it all the time for free it seems.

    Wish CCP had a cash back program.

    Oh yes, "what's in your wallet?" ;)

    You don't see a difference between people who enjoy a game telling others about it and people getting paid to spread lies? 
    They could still pay people to spread lies and you'd no have to know. That's shady. 

    They are being open about their marketing scheme. You can crticize it in many ways, but not being shady.
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Lords of the Fallen
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 2,922
    YashaX said:
    Kyleran said:
    YashaX said:
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    I'd be interested to know what you think is shady about the cash back program?

    Aside from it could result in people over promoting the game, but then folks on these forums do it all the time for free it seems.

    Wish CCP had a cash back program.

    Oh yes, "what's in your wallet?" ;)

    You don't see a difference between people who enjoy a game telling others about it and people getting paid to spread lies? 
    They could still pay people to spread lies and you'd no have to know. That's shady. 

    They are being open about their marketing scheme. You can crticize it in many ways, but not being shady.

    Wow, now I've heard it all: "Paying people to spread lies is not shady", good one. 
    ....
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,708
    YashaX said:
    YashaX said:
    Kyleran said:
    YashaX said:
    Game idea sounds great, but why sabotage yourself with that shady 15% cash back scheme? Now I know that I can't trust anything positive said about the game or its development. Seriously, that has to be one of the most stupid moves you could make. 
    I'd be interested to know what you think is shady about the cash back program?

    Aside from it could result in people over promoting the game, but then folks on these forums do it all the time for free it seems.

    Wish CCP had a cash back program.

    Oh yes, "what's in your wallet?" ;)

    You don't see a difference between people who enjoy a game telling others about it and people getting paid to spread lies? 
    They could still pay people to spread lies and you'd no have to know. That's shady. 

    They are being open about their marketing scheme. You can crticize it in many ways, but not being shady.

    Wow, now I've heard it all: "Paying people to spread lies is not shady", good one. 
    Mate when you are quoting me you should quote correctly. Otherwise you are spreading lies for free! ;)

    There is a "way" missing though, I meant no way to know. Like when companies hire people and pay them to spread lies, and they don't announce it. That's when companies are being shady.

    If they are being open as in if you like our game then suggest it to your friends and earn cash then they are not shady. And since they have announced this, whoever is trying to deceive people can't hide the fact that there is a promotional marketing scheme is going on. It would plainly turn into a CPA advertisement, worst case scenario. 

    Tell me this, now that you know about their promotion, do you trust any upcoming review blindly or you are more cautious when you read something positive about this game? You are not shaded, hence they aren't being shady.
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Lords of the Fallen
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,752
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    edited February 2017
    I think you guys are missing the point of the referral link. It's not for sending en masse to large amounts of people you don't know. Besides, most places online ban referral links (I know the MMORPG Reddit does). It's for recommending your friends and guildies - people you already know. So instead of just sending them to the website, you send them your referral link so you actually get credit for telling your friends. It's also incentive to actually tell all of your friends about the new game you're into instead of keeping it to yourself or mentioning it casually. That isn't a big deal to me. 

    A blind referral isn't all that effective anyway. People trust the opinions of people they actually know. Think about how many times you've seen a random post here or on Reddit with someone telling you how awesome their favorite game is. You don't really care, do you? Those posts never sway me. I'm swayed when my friend's tell me they're into a game.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,752
    Oh I'm pretty sure I'm not missing the point. 

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,708
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Lords of the Fallen
  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    What questions are there about crowdfunding? He's already said they have a AAA game budget and are using Crowdfunding for other reasons - namely so they can self publish and not rely on game ruining publishers, and also so they can take advantage of early player testers giving good feedback who are really invested in the game. Seems ok to me? He also mentioned that if the game doesn't get made he'll return the crowdfunding money, but he also said with their current budget the game will be made regardless.

    Honestly not sure why everyone is so upset about this game when they don't care about others. I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing here. My only concerns are regarding gameplay choices like combat design, but they're supposed to be revealing more details on that today or tomorrow anyway.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus Member EpicPosts: 2,708
    @Leiloni I'm not upset about this game :)
    I think, in general, crowdfunding campaigns need to evolve in many aspects benefiting both studios and backers. Is anything wrong with my attitude?
    Constantine, The Console Poster

    • "One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
    • Currently Playing: Lords of the Fallen
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,752
    Leiloni said:
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    What questions are there about crowdfunding? He's already said they have a AAA game budget and are using Crowdfunding for other reasons - namely so they can self publish and not rely on game ruining publishers, and also so they can take advantage of early player testers giving good feedback who are really invested in the game. Seems ok to me? He also mentioned that if the game doesn't get made he'll return the crowdfunding money, but he also said with their current budget the game will be made regardless.

    Honestly not sure why everyone is so upset about this game when they don't care about others. I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing here. My only concerns are regarding gameplay choices like combat design, but they're supposed to be revealing more details on that today or tomorrow anyway.
    Actually you just said untrue things.  The CEO said they did not have a budget yet.  He said it right on these forums.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    Leiloni said:
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    What questions are there about crowdfunding? He's already said they have a AAA game budget and are using Crowdfunding for other reasons - namely so they can self publish and not rely on game ruining publishers, and also so they can take advantage of early player testers giving good feedback who are really invested in the game. Seems ok to me? He also mentioned that if the game doesn't get made he'll return the crowdfunding money, but he also said with their current budget the game will be made regardless.

    Honestly not sure why everyone is so upset about this game when they don't care about others. I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing here. My only concerns are regarding gameplay choices like combat design, but they're supposed to be revealing more details on that today or tomorrow anyway.
    Actually you just said untrue things.  The CEO said they did not have a budget yet.  He said it right on these forums.
    In case you missed it...


    @Kyleran ;

    So I've taken a real skeptical approach to the many crowdfunded efforts promising to deliver functionality and features which equal or far exceed anything seen before today, all on shoestring budget.
    My studios does not have a "shoestring" budget.  I'm not sure what I said earlier to make you think that, but the amount of resources at my disposal when making this MMO are large.  Comparable to other MMOs that have been made by AAA studios.
    What I've take so far from your responses is the founders have invested their money to hire people to get things rolling.
    I'm sorry again you have been given this impression.  Ashes of Creation will be completed and has the funding to do so.

    They do not have the money to complete the game as currently envisioned, and how much will be delivered is TBC pending how much funding can be raised from crowd funding and yet to be secured private investors, large unknowns at this point.
    Again, I am not sure what gave you this impression.  There are not any "large unknowns" for us.  We have funding :)

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,156
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    What questions are there about crowdfunding? He's already said they have a AAA game budget and are using Crowdfunding for other reasons - namely so they can self publish and not rely on game ruining publishers, and also so they can take advantage of early player testers giving good feedback who are really invested in the game. Seems ok to me? He also mentioned that if the game doesn't get made he'll return the crowdfunding money, but he also said with their current budget the game will be made regardless.

    Honestly not sure why everyone is so upset about this game when they don't care about others. I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing here. My only concerns are regarding gameplay choices like combat design, but they're supposed to be revealing more details on that today or tomorrow anyway.
    Actually you just said untrue things.  The CEO said they did not have a budget yet.  He said it right on these forums.
    In case you missed it...


    @Kyleran ;

    So I've taken a real skeptical approach to the many crowdfunded efforts promising to deliver functionality and features which equal or far exceed anything seen before today, all on shoestring budget.
    My studios does not have a "shoestring" budget.  I'm not sure what I said earlier to make you think that, but the amount of resources at my disposal when making this MMO are large.  Comparable to other MMOs that have been made by AAA studios.
    What I've take so far from your responses is the founders have invested their money to hire people to get things rolling.
    I'm sorry again you have been given this impression.  Ashes of Creation will be completed and has the funding to do so.

    They do not have the money to complete the game as currently envisioned, and how much will be delivered is TBC pending how much funding can be raised from crowd funding and yet to be secured private investors, large unknowns at this point.
    Again, I am not sure what gave you this impression.  There are not any "large unknowns" for us.  We have funding :)

    Apparently you missed my response which highlighted his other replies saying the budget and feature set has not been confirmed.

    Precision.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • LeiloniLeiloni Member RarePosts: 1,262
    Kyleran said:
    Leiloni said:
    Leiloni said:
    Assuming everyone was as informed as we are that would be correct,  But Ithink it's safe to assume the vast majority of gamers are less informed,
    Someone is not informed. They read someone lying about this game. They get fooled. They go to the website to buy the deceitful game. They see there is a promotion going on. They are now informed. 

    The thing is, they are going to advertise this promotion heavily in order to gather their marketing army. It's not somewhere hidden between the lines. 

    You know sometimes on some level as a consumer people have to think what are they doing with their money. I agree with a lot of your concerns when it comes down to Kickstarter and campaigns and I believe we should discuss them more. But thinking this sort of promotion is shady, while it is the exact opposite. Because right now ALL companies are doing this via 3rd-parties, but they are not telling people about it. That's shady--not being open about it. 

    I think there are more important issues to discuss about crowdfunding campaigns and now is a great time, because I think this game is going to attract a lot of people. 
    What questions are there about crowdfunding? He's already said they have a AAA game budget and are using Crowdfunding for other reasons - namely so they can self publish and not rely on game ruining publishers, and also so they can take advantage of early player testers giving good feedback who are really invested in the game. Seems ok to me? He also mentioned that if the game doesn't get made he'll return the crowdfunding money, but he also said with their current budget the game will be made regardless.

    Honestly not sure why everyone is so upset about this game when they don't care about others. I don't see anything wrong with what they're doing here. My only concerns are regarding gameplay choices like combat design, but they're supposed to be revealing more details on that today or tomorrow anyway.
    Actually you just said untrue things.  The CEO said they did not have a budget yet.  He said it right on these forums.
    In case you missed it...


    @Kyleran ;

    So I've taken a real skeptical approach to the many crowdfunded efforts promising to deliver functionality and features which equal or far exceed anything seen before today, all on shoestring budget.
    My studios does not have a "shoestring" budget.  I'm not sure what I said earlier to make you think that, but the amount of resources at my disposal when making this MMO are large.  Comparable to other MMOs that have been made by AAA studios.
    What I've take so far from your responses is the founders have invested their money to hire people to get things rolling.
    I'm sorry again you have been given this impression.  Ashes of Creation will be completed and has the funding to do so.

    They do not have the money to complete the game as currently envisioned, and how much will be delivered is TBC pending how much funding can be raised from crowd funding and yet to be secured private investors, large unknowns at this point.
    Again, I am not sure what gave you this impression.  There are not any "large unknowns" for us.  We have funding :)

    Apparently you missed my response which highlighted his other replies saying the budget and feature set has not been confirmed.

    Precision.
    That just means it might get bigger. He already confirmed they have more than enough cash and it's a non-issue.
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