Star Citizen - Valentines Day Free Fly Event (with multi-crew ship)

Erillion

sgel said:

Erillion said:

--> Yes, the Alpha so far is tiny to what the complete Persistent Universe will be. But it is already larger and more complex than many fully launched games out there. And it has also less bugs than many fully launched games out ther ;-) 

What do you mean by larger? Could you name a few games that are smaller than the SC alpha? Could you name some released games that have more bugs than the SC alpha?

>>> name a few games that are smaller than the SC Alpha >>>>    About two thirds of the games on Steam are smaller than the SC Alpha in my opinion and my experience.

>>>>Released games that have more bugs than the SC Alpha ? >>>  Well, "Battlecruiser 3000AD" comes to my mind ;-)

Have fun

MaxBacon

Calling the game's reputation of what your OPINION is. It's like the same way trolls and the loud critics (that are not the majority) see the game, is how the majority of gamers see the game. Wise people know just because a group of people screams louder than the majority, doesn't make them the majority. The internet is full of those.

It's like the endless petty and circular discussions we go through on forums as this, the comment sections on SC articles, that are by majority the same people posting the same thing everywhere, are going to influence and set how the public views this game. Nope, not at all. They had their PR failures that took jabs at their own reputation but the dramatization and the blowing out of proportion many do (let's call it propaganda) does not set the standard.

sgel

Erillion said:

sgel said:

Erillion said:

--> Yes, the Alpha so far is tiny to what the complete Persistent Universe will be. But it is already larger and more complex than many fully launched games out there. And it has also less bugs than many fully launched games out ther ;-) 

What do you mean by larger? Could you name a few games that are smaller than the SC alpha? Could you name some released games that have more bugs than the SC alpha?

>>> name a few games that are smaller than the SC Alpha >>>>    About two thirds of the games on Steam are smaller than the SC Alpha in my opinion and my experience.

>>>>Released games that have more bugs than the SC Alpha ? >>>  Well, "Battlecruiser 3000AD" comes to my mind ;-)

Have fun

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had more bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

Erillion

@rpmcmurphy

For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.

There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

Erillion

sgel said:

Yeah, nice dig
Seriously.. name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC alpha.

Also, you still haven't answered on what you mean by "larger".. do you mean the in-game playing area? Mechanics? Content? What?

>>>>Name a few games that on release had less bugs than the SC Alpha ?>>>>

--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect   (you asked for LESS bugs)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha  ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

Have fun

sgel

Erillion said:

--> Witcher 3 comes to mind, also Mass Effect   (you asked for LESS bugs)

Well I corrected it a few seconds after I posted it. I thought it was obvious I meant more bugs.
Care to answer that question now? ( if we're done playing in the kindergarten)

With "larger" i mean the scope of the game (space sim + FPS + economic simulation + sandbox + social Simulation + racing Simulation etc.) as well as the number of technical innovations. Even the limited playing space we see in the SC Alpha  ("Crusader" area, Arccorp area, the racetrack etc.) is more than a lot of games offer.

First you say scope and mention things that aren't even in the game, then you mention playing space... oh boy. I wouldn't know where to start to respond but it would be a large discussion and I'm not up to it.

Let's just say I disagree with you and leave it to that.

Erillion

If you meant "more bugs" i can name my favorite from EVE Online - the one that erased boot.ini

Narrowly avoided that one myself.

"Eve Online's deployment of the Trinity patch erased the boot.ini file from several thousand users' computers, rendering them unable to boot. This was due to the usage of a legacy system within the game that was also named boot.ini. As such, the deletion had targeted the wrong directory instead of the /eve directory.[35] "

>>> Lets just say I disagree ...>>>>     We agree to disagree  :-)

Have fun

MaxBacon

sgel said:
Well I corrected it a few seconds after I posted it. I thought it was obvious I meant more bugs.

Freaking Dead Island. Same stuff with crashes, impossible to progress due the broken missions, saves went RIP and you would just stay and watch it burn.

Freaking Farcry 2. Man that one was awful, freezes or crashes every few minutes, crucial NPCs completely broken nobody could progress. And I'm not even mentioning how fast your saves data would get corrupted...

The current Alpha of SC is more playable than those two games when released.

rpmcmurphy

Erillion said:

@rpmcmurphy

For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.

There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

Not really though because facts are useless unless they are specific and virtually every fact regarding Star Citizen is largely unspecific, if you generalise facts they can be made to look like anything.

Can't find the link but someone had scraped the leaderboards (post 2.6) and it was showing something like 140 players who were putting more than 4hrs into AC. 70,000 playing Star Marine (<1 hr) which is just 4% of those 1.7 million forum accounts.

gipfeli

rpmcmurphy said:

Erillion said:

@rpmcmurphy

For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.

There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

Not really though because facts are useless unless they are specific and virtually every fact regarding Star Citizen is largely unspecific, if you generalise facts they can be made to look like anything.

Can't find the link but someone had scraped the leaderboards (post 2.6) and it was showing something like 140 players who were putting more than 4hrs into AC. 70,000 playing Star Marine (<1 hr) which is just 4% of those 1.7 million forum accounts.

facts are useless, that's why i go for opinions. they're worth much more!   -rpmcmurphy

CrazKanuk

rpmcmurphy said:

Erillion said:

@rpmcmurphy

For many of the things you mentioned there ARE known metrics (e.g. playtime, Login numbers, financial contributions etc.). So actually i DOES tell you if you want to know.

There are also public statements from dev team members on numbers. And other numbers have been verified by external sources (like Guiness Book of World Records team).

Have fun

Not really though because facts are useless unless they are specific and virtually every fact regarding Star Citizen is largely unspecific, if you generalise facts they can be made to look like anything.

Can't find the link but someone had scraped the leaderboards (post 2.6) and it was showing something like 140 players who were putting more than 4hrs into AC. 70,000 playing Star Marine (<1 hr) which is just 4% of those 1.7 million forum accounts.

Ok, so Elite: Dangerous just pulled their Arena from the Steam store, why? Because nobody is really looking for arena combat!!! As far as Star Marine goes, for a non-released game, that's not bad, if we're considering Steam stats of other EA games. Shoot, I'd even say that maintaining 5% of your owners consistently on a weekly basis would be good. I mean ED has 7000 players daily. Is that good? I think it is, considering they only have 900k sales. They also have like 10% of their player base engaged over a 2-week period (based on Steamspy). So I'd say 5% isn't horrible for something that isn't even released yet. Most people would wait for the game to release to play. 

Kefo

Erillion said:

>>>>>>
1) Actually they say they don't have enough funding. According to CIG they only have enough to finish SQ42 if funds dried up now.

---> The chance that funds dry up NOW is almost Nil. Money is coming is as it has always done and there is no recognizable trend that this will slow down. In fact, 2016 was the best year in the campaign ever.

--> So - unless something COMPLETELY changes - prospects for adequate funding (even without SQ42 sales) look good.

2) Everything will be included? You're from the future and can tell us that with 100% certainty?

--> None of the features have been announced as "cut/will not come" so far. THAT is a verifiable fact and one does not have to be from the future to verify that.


4) As long as whales keep whaling then they are good. If not they will be screwed if SQ42 isn't a huge success cause they wont be able to finish the PU

---> Whales do not drive the funding ... you can check that out here:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit?pli=1#gid=1694467207

5) I'm not sure why you keep bringing up millions of hours played? That doesn't change the fact that the game is still tiny compared to what Christ Roberts is promising and still in pre pre alpha (tech demo).

--> Yes, the Alpha so far is tiny to what the complete Persistent Universe will be. But it is already larger and more complex than many fully launched games out there. And it has also less bugs than many fully launched games out ther ;-)

6) I doubt they sat around and thought "lets kill the grey market by releasing ships we promised not to release again" it was probably along the lines of "holy shit people will buy anything as long as you tell them its limited edition! lets release the limited edition ship over and over so we can get as much cash as possible"

---> You may doubt. I have a different view on the destruction of the Grey/black market by CIG. I consider it a good thing.

7) Erin might have games under his belt but so do plenty of other devs out there. Hiring Erin sure you can say he has experience but then hiring your wife? It starts to creep into nepotism at this point. Not sure why you mention cryengine devs since I doubt they are family or friends so not sure you understand nepotism.

---> Why not hire his wife if she is darn good at what she is doing ? If its good enough for world records, that is good enough for me.

--> Hiring Erin IMHO was an EXCELLENT idea. Chris Roberts is MUCH better when he works together with his brother. On top of that he has the skills, the experience, the good reputation. And as his brother his has the trust - important in a privately owned company.  You call it nepotism, I call it a smart choice based on - again - verifiable facts.   

10) Don't they have something like 14 businesses registered in the UK alone or something along those lines(maybe it includes the US) I'm not a business major so no idea why they have that many damn companies.

---> Thats 14 companies worldwide, not the UK alone. Get your facts straight. Poor Smarty has blasted that list all over the Internet by now - it should be easy for you to find that list.

--> In the UK it helps them get a major tax break. The EU has reduced-tax programs for new businesses for the first year and/or first three years, so it makes sense to start new businesses to take advantage of that. In the USA to my knowledge the Austin location also has some major tax incentive programs for gaming companies.

11) Really? See theres missing dates which many devs will inform people whats going on and give you a updated timetable that could change again depending on whats happening. Then theres CIG who promises that its just around the corner or only a few weeks away and then nothing materializes or its late by weeks/months/years without any concrete answer as to whats going on.

--> Most Publishers give no dates whatsoever.

--> CIG gives you Access to their Project Management timetable online !

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-Report

12) Sales are great but how about you finish the shit you promised first before you start introducing even more work that is now heaped on top of the massive backlog you already have.

---> The last promised feature was added 2+ years ago. Nothing new has been added to that list since then. So - what "more work heaped on top" are you referring to ?

13) Theres more then just 1 person who think it looks bad from the outside.

--> Oh great. Out of almost 2 Million people there is more than 1 person that thinks it looks bad? How could CIG EVER let THAT happen ?!   LOL

--> By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive.

14) In dev hell you probably mean. Taking time is fine. Dragging your feet because your backers keep throwing money at you for empty promises is another thing though.

--> That may be your opinion. No gaming journalist that visited any CIG Studio accused the devs of "dragging their feet". To the contrary - they report that they have seen devs hard at work and very dedicated to their work. An impression i have too from meeting some devs at conventions.

--> Have fun

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

1) and how long do they have to keep fundraising so that they can actually complete the games they said they could do with far less money? We going to be in the 300 million range before they say hey we think we have enough cash to complete both games now!

2) You must be new to gaming. If you think CIG isn't going to cut some features quietly and hope people don't realize then I'm not sure what to tell you.

4) didn't look at the chart since my phone doesn't like them. Does it actually know how many people are buying ships or is it just assuming? Last I heard the only way to track sales was by ships sold and people are known to buy multiple ships multiple times.

5) So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games. Do you normally play only early access games?

7) He hired her based on what? If she has degrees in marketing then sure but I don't ever remember anything she's done before the project. Which means he hired her on what basis?

10) Did I hit a sore spot for you? I made it clear I wasn't sure about where they were all registered and sorry I don't hang on every word Derek smart says ( you can type his name you know or are you so threatened by him you need to call him the smarty to invalidate what he says?)

11) Most publishers when they do give release dates and things change they communicate that to their fans/customers. SC gives dates or promises around the corner then doesn't mention anything and ignores questions for as long as possible weeks/months after the date has passed.

12) Pretty sure CR is still promising things whenever he sees a game announce a feature he likes.

13) there are more then 2 million people in the world. 

14) Yes that is my opinion. Wasn't that clear?

rpmcmurphy

CrazKanuk said:

Ok, so Elite: Dangerous just pulled their Arena from the Steam store, why? Because nobody is really looking for arena combat!!! As far as Star Marine goes, for a non-released game, that's not bad, if we're considering Steam stats of other EA games. Shoot, I'd even say that maintaining 5% of your owners consistently on a weekly basis would be good. I mean ED has 7000 players daily. Is that good? I think it is, considering they only have 900k sales. They also have like 10% of their player base engaged over a 2-week period (based on Steamspy). So I'd say 5% isn't horrible for something that isn't even released yet. Most people would wait for the game to release to play. 

I think it's worth bearing in mind those numbers were taken very close after 2.6 was released, so there's going to be a higher uptake. To say that they're good would need current numbers to see concurrency/drop-off rate.

gipfeli said:

facts are useless, that's why i go for opinions. they're worth much more!   -rpmcmurphy

Non-specific facts you muppet. Read twice post once eh.

gipfeli

rpmcmurphy said:

CrazKanuk said:

Ok, so Elite: Dangerous just pulled their Arena from the Steam store, why? Because nobody is really looking for arena combat!!! As far as Star Marine goes, for a non-released game, that's not bad, if we're considering Steam stats of other EA games. Shoot, I'd even say that maintaining 5% of your owners consistently on a weekly basis would be good. I mean ED has 7000 players daily. Is that good? I think it is, considering they only have 900k sales. They also have like 10% of their player base engaged over a 2-week period (based on Steamspy). So I'd say 5% isn't horrible for something that isn't even released yet. Most people would wait for the game to release to play. 

I think it's worth bearing in mind those numbers were taken very close after 2.6 was released, so there's going to be a higher uptake. To say that they're good would need current numbers to see concurrency/drop-off rate.

gipfeli said:

facts are useless, that's why i go for opinions. they're worth much more!   -rpmcmurphy

Non-specific facts you muppet. Read twice post once eh.

you still lost any credibility with favorising opinions over "non-specific" facts.

since i hit your sweet spot i will stop quoting on you as you clearly can't it.

CrazKanuk

rpmcmurphy said:

CrazKanuk said:

Ok, so Elite: Dangerous just pulled their Arena from the Steam store, why? Because nobody is really looking for arena combat!!! As far as Star Marine goes, for a non-released game, that's not bad, if we're considering Steam stats of other EA games. Shoot, I'd even say that maintaining 5% of your owners consistently on a weekly basis would be good. I mean ED has 7000 players daily. Is that good? I think it is, considering they only have 900k sales. They also have like 10% of their player base engaged over a 2-week period (based on Steamspy). So I'd say 5% isn't horrible for something that isn't even released yet. Most people would wait for the game to release to play. 

I think it's worth bearing in mind those numbers were taken very close after 2.6 was released, so there's going to be a higher uptake. To say that they're good would need current numbers to see concurrency/drop-off rate.

Yeah, this is totally normal. I mean we've seen the same with ED in the last month. Average player activity is up 50% (6k versus 4k) average. Similarly, that will ultimately fall back off to the more normal 4k numbers. 

Again, this isn't a bad thing. What's most important is the revolving player numbers. So 2-week activity is probably what is most telling, and ED is still cranking away at like 10% which is very respectable, based on what I've seen. 

Either way, the fact is that it's uncharacteristic for players to play a game during alpha/beta. So while I respect your debate on facts, etc. and attempting to use logic to put a metric on it, but the only fact is that any number that we throw out there right now is meaningless because there are significant factors which impact any sort of accurate data collection. Even if there was an accurate, reliable, data source, do we have enough information to intelligently estimate expected numbers at release, based on Alpha statistics? 

rpmcmurphy

gipfeli said:

you still lost any credibility with favorising opinions over "non-specific" facts.

since i hit your sweet spot i will stop quoting on you as you clearly can't it.

Doh, stop making up crap, I did not say one was better than the other.
What I actually said was that unless a fact was specific it has no more worth than an opinion because of the ways it can be interpreted, ie 1.7 million accounts being representative of the popularity of the game, whereas we would need far more specific numbers to accurately guage the popularity.

It's really not a diificult concept.

You give yourself too much credit if you think you're having any effect on me.

Erillion

@ Kefo

>>>>>>>>>>>>

1) and how long do they have to keep fundraising so that they can actually complete the games they said they could do with far less money? We going to be in the 300 million range before they say hey we think we have enough cash to complete both games now!

--> Easy answer. Until it is ready.

--> And the "they said they could do it with far less money" refers to the project description at the start of the Kickstarter campaign. That was already obsolete one month later by the end of the Kickstarter campaign, after two dozen something additional goals had been added to the project due to the outstanding success of the campaign.  And still some people mention that example - despite knowing for years now that its wrong.

2) You must be new to gaming.

--> Not ... quite.  My first computer game was Pong.

--> My first pen&paper roleplaying game was D&D

If you think CIG isn't going to cut some features quietly and hope people don't realize then I'm not sure what to tell you.

--> Nothing is happening quietly in Star Citizen ;-)  Certain people like it "loud" ....

--> Will CIG cut some features ? Probably. I do not know. If it turns out that it is not possible technically or that the impact on performance is too large ... it may well happen. But SO FAR no such cuts have been announced. And THAT is the basis for discussion. Not baseless speculation.

4) didn't look at the chart since my phone doesn't like them. Does it actually know how many people are buying ships or is it just assuming? Last I heard the only way to track sales was by ships sold and people are known to buy multiple ships multiple times.

--> There is STILL no definite number of paying backers that you can check on a daily basis. However, we have a pretty good idea of the percentage in relation to the publically known number of Star Citizens since one of the devs gave out the number of paying backers back then in 2016.

5) So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games. Do you normally play only early access games?

---> My Steam account has 224 games

--> My GoG account has 87 games

--> I own about 300 other computer games.

--> I estimate the number of early access games to be around 5 % of the steam number  (and I play EA almost exclusively on Steam)

7) He hired her based on what? If she has degrees in marketing then sure but I don't ever remember anything she's done before the project. Which means he hired her on what basis?

--> Experience.

--> Obviously he knew she can do it ... and she did.

10) Did I hit a sore spot for you? I made it clear I wasn't sure about where they were all registered and sorry I don't hang on every word Derek smart says ( you can type his name you know or are you so threatened by him you need to call him the smarty to invalidate what he says?)

---> I do not have sore spots when it comes to tax incentives for young companies. I had to research that topic for the EU Region recently for professional reasons.  

--> The Smarty has me blocked here anyway ;-)   He does not see anything i type. At a point some years ago he got annoyed that he cannot delete my posts here like he does on Steam forum (and blocked me).. He does not really like to discuss facts, especially if they contradict his propaganda and fake "facts".

--> In HIS case it is literally true that he appears when you say his name three times. Although that has more to do with Google Alert than any comparisons with fallen angels ;-)

11) Most publishers when they do give release dates and things change they communicate that to their fans/customers.

---> LOL ..... No !  Some do. Many do not. Only when the gaming press pokes em with a pointed stick do most of them give revised estimates.

--> That is why most publishers these days now announce games ONLY when they are almost finished.

 

SC gives dates or promises around the corner then doesn't mention anything and ignores questions for as long as possible weeks/months after the date has passed.

--> Like most of the rest of the video game industry. What else is new ?

12) Pretty sure CR is still promising things whenever he sees a game announce a feature he likes.

--> None that I can see recently : https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

13) there are more then 2 million people in the world. 

--> You are a good observer. And still the following applies: By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive.

>>>>>

Have fun

rpmcmurphy

CrazKanuk said:

Yeah, this is totally normal. I mean we've seen the same with ED in the last month. Average player activity is up 50% (6k versus 4k) average. Similarly, that will ultimately fall back off to the more normal 4k numbers. 

Again, this isn't a bad thing. What's most important is the revolving player numbers. So 2-week activity is probably what is most telling, and ED is still cranking away at like 10% which is very respectable, based on what I've seen. 

Either way, the fact is that it's uncharacteristic for players to play a game during alpha/beta. So while I respect your debate on facts, etc. and attempting to use logic to put a metric on it, but the only fact is that any number that we throw out there right now is meaningless because there are significant factors which impact any sort of accurate data collection. Even if there was an accurate, reliable, data source, do we have enough information to intelligently estimate expected numbers at release, based on Alpha statistics? 

Bearing in mind that Steam accounts for less than half of the playerbase.

But I agree fully otherwise, and in regard to your question, no I don't think we do. We could speculate based on other space games and all that but there's always the possibilty a World of Warcraft situation occuring, although given the hardware requirements, sci-fi focus and that it's a new IP would make it more unilkely.

CrazKanuk

rpmcmurphy said:

CrazKanuk said:

Yeah, this is totally normal. I mean we've seen the same with ED in the last month. Average player activity is up 50% (6k versus 4k) average. Similarly, that will ultimately fall back off to the more normal 4k numbers. 

Again, this isn't a bad thing. What's most important is the revolving player numbers. So 2-week activity is probably what is most telling, and ED is still cranking away at like 10% which is very respectable, based on what I've seen. 

Either way, the fact is that it's uncharacteristic for players to play a game during alpha/beta. So while I respect your debate on facts, etc. and attempting to use logic to put a metric on it, but the only fact is that any number that we throw out there right now is meaningless because there are significant factors which impact any sort of accurate data collection. Even if there was an accurate, reliable, data source, do we have enough information to intelligently estimate expected numbers at release, based on Alpha statistics? 

Bearing in mind that Steam accounts for less than half of the playerbase.

But I agree fully otherwise, and in regard to your question, no I don't think we do. We could speculate based on other space games and all that but there's always the possibilty a World of Warcraft situation occuring, although given the hardware requirements, sci-fi focus and that it's a new IP would make it more unilkely.

Yeah, private sales and other third party sales and retail sales definitely confuse the issue at times. Give it another 5 years and Steam will just be the only place where companies release to (Although getting rid of Greenlight could end up screwing them on that goal). 

So, yeah, for a game in wide release, it doesn't necessarily provide more clarity than being able to say something like, we can be relatively confident that player engagement (activity in the last 2 weeks) is around the 10% mark (based on Steam stats). Also, playtime seems good compared to other popular games. At very least it shows that there is still interest. If anything is proven it's that a genre that publishers thought was dead a decade ago actually still has a following. 

Honestly, the numbers surprise me, for both games. I mean SC will be F2P, so I'd expect to see higher numbers overall, and a lower engagement, percentage wise, against the entire player base. Other factors, like hardware, also play into that. I don't see a "WoW thing" happening either, although I'm shocked at the ED numbers. I think they may have sold more copies than any space sim of yesteryear. So if SC was able to show similar numbers, and good sales, maybe it means more games or greater investment, if ED and SC don't lock down that market entirely. 

Kefo

Erillion said:

@ Kefo

>>>>>>>>>>>>

1) and how long do they have to keep fundraising so that they can actually complete the games they said they could do with far less money? We going to be in the 300 million range before they say hey we think we have enough cash to complete both games now!

--> Easy answer. Until it is ready.

--> And the "they said they could do it with far less money" refers to the project description at the start of the Kickstarter campaign. That was already obsolete one month later by the end of the Kickstarter campaign, after two dozen something additional goals had been added to the project due to the outstanding success of the campaign.  And still some people mention that example - despite knowing for years now that its wrong.

2) You must be new to gaming.

--> Not ... quite.  My first computer game was Pong.

--> My first pen&paper roleplaying game was D&D

If you think CIG isn't going to cut some features quietly and hope people don't realize then I'm not sure what to tell you.

--> Nothing is happening quietly in Star Citizen ;-)  Certain people like it "loud" ....

--> Will CIG cut some features ? Probably. I do not know. If it turns out that it is not possible technically or that the impact on performance is too large ... it may well happen. But SO FAR no such cuts have been announced. And THAT is the basis for discussion. Not baseless speculation.

4) didn't look at the chart since my phone doesn't like them. Does it actually know how many people are buying ships or is it just assuming? Last I heard the only way to track sales was by ships sold and people are known to buy multiple ships multiple times.

--> There is STILL no definite number of paying backers that you can check on a daily basis. However, we have a pretty good idea of the percentage in relation to the publically known number of Star Citizens since one of the devs gave out the number of paying backers back then in 2016.

5) So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games. Do you normally play only early access games?

---> My Steam account has 224 games

--> My GoG account has 87 games

--> I own about 300 other computer games.

--> I estimate the number of early access games to be around 5 % of the steam number  (and I play EA almost exclusively on Steam)

7) He hired her based on what? If she has degrees in marketing then sure but I don't ever remember anything she's done before the project. Which means he hired her on what basis?

--> Experience.

--> Obviously he knew she can do it ... and she did.

10) Did I hit a sore spot for you? I made it clear I wasn't sure about where they were all registered and sorry I don't hang on every word Derek smart says ( you can type his name you know or are you so threatened by him you need to call him the smarty to invalidate what he says?)

---> I do not have sore spots when it comes to tax incentives for young companies. I had to research that topic for the EU Region recently for professional reasons.  

--> The Smarty has me blocked here anyway ;-)   He does not see anything i type. At a point some years ago he got annoyed that he cannot delete my posts here like he does on Steam forum (and blocked me).. He does not really like to discuss facts, especially if they contradict his propaganda and fake "facts".

--> In HIS case it is literally true that he appears when you say his name three times. Although that has more to do with Google Alert than any comparisons with fallen angels ;-)

11) Most publishers when they do give release dates and things change they communicate that to their fans/customers.

---> LOL ..... No !  Some do. Many do not. Only when the gaming press pokes em with a pointed stick do most of them give revised estimates.

--> That is why most publishers these days now announce games ONLY when they are almost finished.

 

SC gives dates or promises around the corner then doesn't mention anything and ignores questions for as long as possible weeks/months after the date has passed.

--> Like most of the rest of the video game industry. What else is new ?

12) Pretty sure CR is still promising things whenever he sees a game announce a feature he likes.

--> None that I can see recently : https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

13) there are more then 2 million people in the world. 

--> You are a good observer. And still the following applies: By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive.

>>>>>

Have fun

1) not what I asked and I never referred to the start of the project. CR gave other money amounts that they needed to complete the project post scope creep. Try not to deflect please.

2) you told me earlier that all features will be in. Now you're telling me you're not sure if all features will be in? No wonder people get confused on this project.

4) right. so the cut out the bullshit answer is "I don't know" 

5) Bravo on skipping over the actual question and answering the rhetorical question. 

7) Proof please. Most marketers won't shut the hell up about themselves since they, you know, market things and people. I don't really see a resume for Sandi before SC outside of a mediocre acting career.

10) Again with the skipping over the meat of the question and going off track.

11) Yeah that was my point. Publishers announce when it's almost finished and then revise that when they know they can't hit it so a shitstorm doesn't come when release day is supposed to arrive.

SC announce a date and then after they blow past it you have to hold a gun to their head to even admit that they were late. 

12) He still makes promises in videos and anywhere else when he can escape the muzzle. And no I won't go through all the videos to find proof as I'm sure you already know where to look. I'd rather have a hole drilled into my head then hear CR prattle on.

13) Completely missed the point.

*edit* changed somethings for clarity

Erillion

@Kefo

1) not what I asked and I never referred to the start of the project. CR gave other money amounts that they needed to complete the project post scope creep. Try not to deflect please.

--> You asked how long they will keep fundraising. And I answered: Until the game is ready.

2) you told me earlier that all features will be in. Now you're telling me you're not sure if all features will be in? No wonder people get confused on this project.

--> I told you earlier that according to current knowledge all promised features will be in. Everything else is speculation.

4) right. so the cut out the bullshit answer is "I don't know"

--> The answer is: We do not know precisely. We have a pretty good idea of the magnitude of the number, but we cannot give it precisely at any given moment. In that case .. number of paying backers will be around 50 % of the number of Star Citizens (based on a dev comment some time ago that put the number at 500k+ at a time when the number of Star Citizens was somewhat over one million).

5) Bravo on skipping over the actual question and answering the rhetorical question.

--> I answered your question.

7) Proof please. Most marketers won't shut the hell up about themselves since they, you know, market things and people. I don't really see a resume for Sandi before SC outside of a mediocre acting career.

--> Proof is : Guiness Book of Records.

--> Accomplishment ranks higher than a CV .... there are millions of people with a marketing education, but not many of them can raise 143 M$.

10) Again with the skipping over the meat of the question and going off track.

--> You asked me if you hit a sore spot and I answered : No.

11) Yeah that was my point. Publishers announce when it's almost finished and then revise that when they know they can't hit it so a shitstorm doesn't come when release day is supposed to arrive.

SC announce a date and then after they blow past it you have to hold a gun to their head to even admit that they were late.

--> Not according to recent gaming press articles, not they don't.

12) He still makes promises in videos and anywhere else when he can escape the muzzle. And no I won't go through all the videos to find proof as I'm sure you already know where to look. I'd rather have a hole drilled into my head then hear CR prattle on.

--> And again the answer is:

--> None that I can see recently : https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

--> If you have proof that he announced a new feature, feel free to post your source. Planetary surfaces and procedural generation is the 41 M$ stretch goal and not a newly announced feature.

13) Completely missed the point.

---> You said : "Theres more then just 1 person who think it looks bad from the outside."

--> And i answered:  "By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive. ". There will ALWAYS be people that think it looks bad. Even with the best video game one could ever make.

--> Feel free to explain what your point IS !


--> Have fun

Kefo

Erillion said:

@Kefo

1) not what I asked and I never referred to the start of the project. CR gave other money amounts that they needed to complete the project post scope creep. Try not to deflect please.

--> You asked how long they will keep fundraising. And I answered: Until the game is ready.

2) you told me earlier that all features will be in. Now you're telling me you're not sure if all features will be in? No wonder people get confused on this project.

--> I told you earlier that according to current knowledge all promised features will be in. Everything else is speculation.

4) right. so the cut out the bullshit answer is "I don't know"

--> The answer is: We do not know precisely. We have a pretty good idea of the magnitude of the number, but we cannot give it precisely at any given moment. In that case .. number of paying backers will be around 50 % of the number of Star Citizens (based on a dev comment some time ago that put the number at 500k+ at a time when the number of Star Citizens was somewhat over one million).

5) Bravo on skipping over the actual question and answering the rhetorical question.

--> I answered your question.

7) Proof please. Most marketers won't shut the hell up about themselves since they, you know, market things and people. I don't really see a resume for Sandi before SC outside of a mediocre acting career.

--> Proof is : Guiness Book of Records.

--> Accomplishment ranks higher than a CV .... there are millions of people with a marketing education, but not many of them can raise 143 M$.

10) Again with the skipping over the meat of the question and going off track.

--> You asked me if you hit a sore spot and I answered : No.

11) Yeah that was my point. Publishers announce when it's almost finished and then revise that when they know they can't hit it so a shitstorm doesn't come when release day is supposed to arrive.

SC announce a date and then after they blow past it you have to hold a gun to their head to even admit that they were late.

--> Not according to recent gaming press articles, not they don't.

12) He still makes promises in videos and anywhere else when he can escape the muzzle. And no I won't go through all the videos to find proof as I'm sure you already know where to look. I'd rather have a hole drilled into my head then hear CR prattle on.

--> And again the answer is:

--> None that I can see recently : https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

--> If you have proof that he announced a new feature, feel free to post your source. Planetary surfaces and procedural generation is the 41 M$ stretch goal and not a newly announced feature.

13) Completely missed the point.

---> You said : "Theres more then just 1 person who think it looks bad from the outside."

--> And i answered:  "By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive. ". There will ALWAYS be people that think it looks bad. Even with the best video game one could ever make.

--> Feel free to explain what your point IS !


--> Have fun

I'd answer right now but I'd be banned so I'll answer after I eat and then continue to point out even more of your inaccuracies and hilarious statements 

adamlotus75

Just a quick note to point out that many players bought ED before it hit steam and are still playing the standalone version... me for example. The only way to buy it for a long time was the standalone version.

Kefo

Erillion said:

@Kefo

1) not what I asked and I never referred to the start of the project. CR gave other money amounts that they needed to complete the project post scope creep. Try not to deflect please.

--> You asked how long they will keep fundraising. And I answered: Until the game is ready.

2) you told me earlier that all features will be in. Now you're telling me you're not sure if all features will be in? No wonder people get confused on this project.

--> I told you earlier that according to current knowledge all promised features will be in. Everything else is speculation.

4) right. so the cut out the bullshit answer is "I don't know"

--> The answer is: We do not know precisely. We have a pretty good idea of the magnitude of the number, but we cannot give it precisely at any given moment. In that case .. number of paying backers will be around 50 % of the number of Star Citizens (based on a dev comment some time ago that put the number at 500k+ at a time when the number of Star Citizens was somewhat over one million).

5) Bravo on skipping over the actual question and answering the rhetorical question.

--> I answered your question.

7) Proof please. Most marketers won't shut the hell up about themselves since they, you know, market things and people. I don't really see a resume for Sandi before SC outside of a mediocre acting career.

--> Proof is : Guiness Book of Records.

--> Accomplishment ranks higher than a CV .... there are millions of people with a marketing education, but not many of them can raise 143 M$.

10) Again with the skipping over the meat of the question and going off track.

--> You asked me if you hit a sore spot and I answered : No.

11) Yeah that was my point. Publishers announce when it's almost finished and then revise that when they know they can't hit it so a shitstorm doesn't come when release day is supposed to arrive.

SC announce a date and then after they blow past it you have to hold a gun to their head to even admit that they were late.

--> Not according to recent gaming press articles, not they don't.

12) He still makes promises in videos and anywhere else when he can escape the muzzle. And no I won't go through all the videos to find proof as I'm sure you already know where to look. I'd rather have a hole drilled into my head then hear CR prattle on.

--> And again the answer is:

--> None that I can see recently : https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals

--> If you have proof that he announced a new feature, feel free to post your source. Planetary surfaces and procedural generation is the 41 M$ stretch goal and not a newly announced feature.

13) Completely missed the point.

---> You said : "Theres more then just 1 person who think it looks bad from the outside."

--> And i answered:  "By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive. ". There will ALWAYS be people that think it looks bad. Even with the best video game one could ever make.

--> Feel free to explain what your point IS !


--> Have fun

and so the dance continues lol


1) I asked how long they need to keep fundraising in order to get enough money to finish the game.

2) You worded it like it was a surefire thing but since your statement is fine now lets move on shall we?

4) so still I don't know after you cut out the bullshit. Gotcha lol.

5) This is what I said and was the question (although I forgot the question mark) "

So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games."
The part you answered I actually don't care about since I don't care how many games you have played.

7) Guinness book of records is not proof of Sandi having a marketing background before she was hired. Since you haven't produced anything and are throw out horrible arguments I'll just assume you agree it was nepotism in this case.

10) No you kinda went on a long winded passive aggressive rant about Derek Smart for some odd reason which makes me think what I said about you calling him "the smarty" is right.

11) Are you talking about No Man's Sky? If you are congrats you listed 1 very recent game that actually did it worse then Star Citizen....pat on the back. I suppose if you're neck deep in shit you can be glad you aren't the guy whos shoulders you're standing on.

12) already told you not combing through all the CR videos as I would rather take a drill bit to my head. The only thing that comes to mind is (procedural?) birds.

13) cant believe I have to get your own quote because you can't remember what you said in its entirety

--> Oh great. Out of almost 2 Million people there is more than 1 person that thinks it looks bad? How could CIG EVER let THAT happen ?!   LOL

--> By definition you NEVER can make all 100 % of people happy 100 % of the time, if the things that make them happy are often mutually exclusive.

You're inferring out of all the SC backers there is more than 1 person who thinks  this looks bad. There are people who aren't backers that think this look bad hence the theres more then 2 million people.

Please at least try to get the full quotes in there instead of omitting things to try and make your argument work. And do pay attention to what I write. It will save me having to correct your mistakes later on.

Erillion

@Kefo

>>>>>>>>>>>>
1) I asked how long they need to keep fundraising in order to get enough money to finish the game.

--> And I answer AGAIN: As long as it takes to finish the game.

2) You worded it like it was a surefire thing but since your statement is fine now lets move on shall we?

--> My pleasure.

4) so still I don't know after you cut out the bullshit. Gotcha lol.

--> Too bad that you still do not know. Most others do.

5) This is what I said and was the question (although I forgot the question mark) "

So a game that lets you try on clothes, play a mediocre fps with 2? Levels, and fly around a single map to shoot at each other is larger then most games."
The part you answered I actually don't care about since I don't care how many games you have played.

--> So one has to guess what is a question and what is not a question? Because you do forget question marks ? (See what I did there ?) One has to answer questions you did not put forward ?  One has to be a telepath ?

7) Guinness book of records is not proof of Sandi having a marketing background before she was hired. Since you haven't produced anything and are throw out horrible arguments I'll just assume you agree it was nepotism in this case.

--> You assume too much. 

--> Chris Roberts obviously knew she was good at marketing. And the success confirms both that he was right his in assumption and that she is good at marketing. 143 M$ say so.

10) No you kinda went on a long winded passive aggressive rant about Derek Smart for some odd reason which makes me think what I said about you calling him "the smarty" is right.

--> The Smarty using Google Alert is not a rant. That is a well known fact and has been said by himself in the past. That is why it even has become an insider joke that you only have to say his name three times and he appears. And yes, often it DOES work ;-)

11) Are you talking about No Man's Sky? If you are congrats you listed 1 very recent game that actually did it worse then Star Citizen....pat on the back. I suppose if you're neck deep in shit you can be glad you aren't the guy whos shoulders you're standing on.

--> There was absolutely no reference to NMS whatsoever in my responses. So the answer is: No. I wonder whatever made you think about NMS in that context.

12) already told you not combing through all the CR videos as I would rather take a drill bit to my head. The only thing that comes to mind is (procedural?) birds.

--> Its called procedurally generated planets  (rock, flora, fauna etc.). That includes birds. 41 M$ stretch goal. Nothing knew.

--> OK ... so when you have no evidence whatsoever, you say that you do not plan to look for evidence, but you are still right. Because .... you said so.

13) cant believe I have to get your own quote because you can't remember what you said in its entirety

**quote**

You're inferring out of all the SC backers there is more than 1 person who thinks  this looks bad. There are people who aren't backers that think this look bad hence the theres more then 2 million people.

--> What you THINK i am inferring so far has NEVER been what i said and/or inferred. What you think seems to have little to do with what anything i do/say/think/infer. But hey ... your arguments are not based on evidence (see 12. above) or facts .. so that may be one of the reasons.

--> And my personal opinion:  The ones that matter are the people that are the backers who make this game possible. If 2+ people out of 8 billion think this looks bad - especially if these 2+ people are not backers - this concerns me about as much as a ricebag toppling over in China. If almost 2 million OTHER people are with me supporting this project - THOSE are the people that i consider important. 

Please at least try to get the full quotes in there instead of omitting things to try and make your argument work. And do pay attention to what I write.

--> I do. Its not easy. See (12).

 It will save me having to correct your mistakes later on.

--> My "mistakes" are called evidence, which - as we know now - you have no inclination to disprove with any evidence, facts or sources of your own because ..... .  Because!  Right ?  (See what I did there?)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


--> Have fun