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What Game Worlds Are Missing - The Wilderness

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  • Vermillion_RaventhalVermillion_Raventhal Member EpicPosts: 4,198
    Wilderness needs shifting and procedurally created content to be interesting.  Right now the latter is underdeveloped for the genre. You can't go out into the wilds and find a random raid or dungeon in the woods that is one and done.  There are no quest just for you and your group out there.  
    If the genre went SWG vs. WoW we maybe close to what I decribed.  Instead we have game world's jam packed with developer content and nothing else to it.  
  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Been working on some lore lately. Changed some names to some zones and edited one. Some zone names just didn't flow well or make much sense. For those who are interested...

    Gloomvale Mire --> Mireland Vales
    Tundra Pass --> Coldfoot Pass
    Hazemyst Glade --> Emerald Glade
    Castle Roo --> Castle Roo'thir

    Edit Zone: Bravelands, omitted the swampy areas as it wouldn't make sense transitioning to a hotter climate.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    edited February 2017
    Travel is 100% immersive no matter who says differently.
    Immersion SHOULD be the very backbone a ROLE playing game is designed around.If you break that design philosophy right away in your design,you are then not creating a rpg.

    That is why i detest games with markers all over the game,like arrow pointers,name plates,yellow ? ! .Then some devs ruin immersion even one step further with automated travel,automated fish botting or offline advancement ..ahem Eve.

    This is what separates devs/games to me,if i see a developer that simply looks like they have no clue what immersion is,i write them off as amateur game designers.What i THINK influences  bad game design is these devs are too worried about their profits,they are afraid if they remove those stupid ideas they will lose customers.
    IDK really,maybe if we had a gaming website ask the tough questions for once,instead of always pandering them, we might find some real answers from the devs themselves.Like seriously what is a system designer thinking when he puts sparkles on a lever,is he thinking there is no way we will ever figure out we need to pull that lever?Or NPC's,do they think we can't see them unless they put a giant yellow ? over their head?


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    Travel affects my mmersion very little.
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    edited February 2017
    @Eronakis, I have two games for you, Fallen Earth, and WoW.  Both games meet the criteria you have stated, your ridicule aside.

    As for the world map in the OP, great reimagining of Europe and Northern Africa.  But the map looks smaller than that of WoW.  I suppose it is possibly 5x the size of Arizona, as seen in Fallen Earth?

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Loke666 said:
    Eronakis said:
    You could run for several minutes in vanguard without seeing any mobs NPCs nothing. That definitely is lacking content. The sheet gap between various content heavy areas made it seem remarkably empty.
    I agree. The poster above you disagreed though. I thought more zones should be populated with more NPC mobs. I did really enjoy Vanguard it did Wilderness good but the landscapes where not as compelling as I'd hoped they would be. But again it was an unfinished game. It's not a bad thing if a zone or two has empty areas to give an eerie empty vibe to it but not every zone of course.
    Well, not everywhere in a huge wood should have loads of mobs and stuff, you just need enough hot spots to make exploration fun and rewarding. A huge wood full of critters every yard can be annoying.

    There is a perfect ratio between empty and full that makes exploration most fun, but I think you need some testing to get it just right. VG might have had a bit too little of it.
    You have to try to make it engaging. Don't make it a cakewalk.

    Maybe if you're in the mood for an encounter, you start a short tracking minigame. 

    IMHO I also feel that AI is such a neglected asset. I was really hoping to see EQNs vision in action. I hope someone else can get there.

    Amazon?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KonfessKonfess Member RarePosts: 1,667
    Wizardry said:
    Travel is 100% immersive no matter who says differently.
    Immersion SHOULD be the very backbone a ROLE playing game is designed around.If you break that design philosophy right away in your design,you are then not creating a rpg.

    That is why i detest games with markers all over the game,like arrow pointers,name plates,yellow ? ! .Then some devs ruin immersion even one step further with automated travel,automated fish botting or offline advancement ..ahem Eve.

    This is what separates devs/games to me,if i see a developer that simply looks like they have no clue what immersion is,i write them off as amateur game designers.What i THINK influences  bad game design is these devs are too worried about their profits,they are afraid if they remove those stupid ideas they will lose customers.
    IDK really,maybe if we had a gaming website ask the tough questions for once,instead of always pandering them, we might find some real answers from the devs themselves.Like seriously what is a system designer thinking when he puts sparkles on a lever,is he thinking there is no way we will ever figure out we need to pull that lever?Or NPC's,do they think we can't see them unless they put a giant yellow ? over their head?


    But will you feel the same if you have to travel for three real life days (3x 24 hours = 72 hours @ 3 hours of gameplay a day, 24 days, quite possibly a months time), just to see a mob you can fight over with the other 100 - 1.000 players online?

    When I read about immersion breaking, what I hear is unfair advantage for other (dumb) players.  True devs could add options to turn off markers and glow effects.  But why waste the time and effort on something no player will ever use.  It's never about holding a single player's hand, it's always about holding every other players' hand as well.

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
    It costs money to play.  Therefore P2W.

  • EronakisEronakis Member UncommonPosts: 2,249
    Konfess said:
    @Eronakis, I have two games for you, Fallen Earth, and WoW.  Both games meet the criteria you have stated, your ridicule aside.

    As for the world map in the OP, great reimagining of Europe and Northern Africa.  But the map looks smaller than that of WoW.  I suppose it is possibly 5x the size of Arizona, as seen in Fallen Earth?
    Never played Fallen Earth, played WoW. Fortunately, Wow is nothing like I am imaging for the purpose of this thread, in fact wow is the exact opposite of what I am looking for.

    The scale of the map is off, I used a 2d rending mapping program and it uses symbols to place different types of mountains/vegetation ect. This world will be quite massive. Azeroth is around 200 in game square miles (not including expansions), Vanguard was around 600 in game square miles. This world map is around 875 in game square miles if not more.
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,717
    I'm not really sure how I feel about the wilderness in MMOs. 


    I think the more important thing for me is having non-linear, open worlds to explore. I tend not to care too much beyond that. I mean, when I visit towns / quest hubs (especially in single player games), I tend to get excited about the visuals and character upgrades (xp from quests, rewards, buying new gear). Then, when I head back out into the wilds, I get excited about the combat and what interesting creatures I'm going to find. 

    I won't talk about immersion as it is a concept I still don't really understand, despite reading up on it a lot. The way people describe immersion on these forums, I don't think I've ever been immersed in a game, but reading through academic research on immersion I probably have been immersed in quite a lot. The definitions of immersion are really quite different though. 



    Something someone pointed out earlier which is also think is incredibly important for creating a sense of wilderness: removing map markers / exclamation marks etc. 

    When LotRO was first released, it didn't have quest markers. You picked up a quest and you had to read it to figure out where to go. This meant you were almost forced into the story line, which connected you to the game world. You were forced to pay attention to your surroundings. Also, quite frequently you were given vague directions, so you'd have to spend time exploring large sections of the map, trying to track down objectives. So, even though the "wilderness" wasn't big, you'd end up exploring every inch of it. Its been nearly 10 years since release, yet I can probably still remember the locations of most of the vanilla quests, yet I would be useless at remembering anything from Moria onwards as they introduced the map markers, so I spent my time just grabbing every quest and then following the map. 
  • DauzqulDauzqul Member RarePosts: 1,982
    Absolutely.

    My dream game:

    #1. Vanguard-sized world.

    #2. SWG-like crafting.

    #3. ArcheAge-like trading.

    #4. Classic EQ2-like World PvP.

    #5. SWG-like world housing / player malls.

    #6. LoTRO's playable instruments.

    #7. Age of Conan's brutality.

    #8. Jedi Outcast-like combat.
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