Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Death ( solutions only please )

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
A lot of topics seem to turn into death penalties.  In the early mmos days, this was never thought out very deeply or they simply back fired as a bad idea for most.

Can everyone forget the past and offer their solution ?.......In my opinion, all mmos suck, everyone, all the way to 2017 !



Here is a few of my solutions:

First,  " groups shouldn't suffer ".  Time after time, you assemble a group, everyone is joking and having a good time.  Everyone is doing a good job.  Tanks are tanking, healers are healing, and fighters are waiting for there time to strike causing a lot of damage.  Everything is going just fine, friends are being made............UNTIL SOMEONE DIES !.............. We all know it's down hill from here.  Fighting breaks out, blaming takes place, leaving groups happens, Some games even have a kick feature !.......EVERYONE HATES WAITING FOR A PLAYER TO RETURN, AND THE PLAYER IS EMBARRASSED.  


1)  Have the individual players armor and weapons break rapidly !
 All players have a separate bag just for replaceable armor and weapons.  This idea has many benefits.  It makes them pay for equipment during off times out of grouping, and increased the need for crafting !


2)  Have a separate "injury meter".
Just like health, stamina, and mana bars, the player has "injury bar". This bar is sustaining and has to be dealt with at some point, but not during a group encounter. 

- Maybe a hot key needs to be PRESSED OFTEN  or fighting damage is weakened if not. 

- Maybe the player simply needs to see a doctor when in town after the group and has to pay a hefty doctor bill, just hope they have good insurance :) 


3)  Group wipes - Remember Warlocks in World of Warcraft ?... They had " SoulStones ".  They were to be given to the resurrection classes for instant resurrections. This was a good idea !   Make it EASY but everyone's armor is severely damaged or effects their injury bar.   




Post edited by delete5230 on
«134

Comments

  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Or you could make it like SWtoR - you can't die against the mobs unless you are playing elite content or are totally incompetent... <I'm joking, not about SWtoR, but about using that system>

    I would suggest something like a purchasable resurrection stone that could be only be used out of combat to bring a character either back to life or summon the ghost to the corpse so they can loot it.

    Make the cost on the stones non-trivial, but not too expensive and have tiers so that you could increase the cost versus level.  For instance levels 1 - 10 would cost 1 gold each, 11- 20 5 gold each, that sort of thing.  As the game ages I would revisit (increase) the costs for the upper level stones to keep up with inflation.

    If there are any penalties associated with death (xp, fatigue, etc.) the stones would not mitigate it - they would only summon the person to the body or resurrect the body.

    This way the group is back up and running with minimal downtime, but the person has had a monetary cost in addition to any other costs (repair bills, etc.) that may be imposed.

    Anyway, just a quick thought.
  • goboygogoboygo Member RarePosts: 2,140
    On death drop everything except whats equipped and your gold.  No XP loss.  Go get your stuff no loss of anything.  Cant get your stuff pay gold to retrieve your stuff.  Or use XP to retrieve your stuff.
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,476
    Good old fashion " Corpse Run " from edge of zone not dungon.
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    OP implies something was wrong with original system. It worked fine, and is largely why EQ was my favorite MMO experience by a wide margin. Only thing I'd change is a system that allows you to summon your body to a temple or something when it would have disappeared for good. No need for permanent loss.


  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 520
    edited January 2017
    When your character dies or becomes "incapacitated" it gets a penalty to their skills and attributes (damage, healing, mitigation etc.) until they work off the penalty incrementally (xp, obtain item/material, or finish an objective).
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    DMKano said:
    I say XP loss on death.

    That's it.

    Naked corpse runs are punitive enough to make for a timid player base afraid of taking big risks, and IMO that's not good. I think this was fine 15 years ago, but I honestly would hate to do naked corpse runs today. I don't have time for that.

    So you die, you lose XP - perfect system for Pantheon IMO.

    Maybe pay some coin on death too - so it's a money sink as well.

    Having to run accross the world naked in a game without fast travel - just no, I have better use of my time

    All of the above is 100% my personal preference - please don't take it as gospel

    I agree with you 100%,


    Naked corps runs are bad.  Not only are they timely but add unneeded stress to THAT player, and piss off a group !


    Sure, the player should feel some kind of cost, maybe even severe but not this..... This is when players start leaving groups, waiting for others.


  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Elsabolts said:
    Good old fashion " Corpse Run " from edge of zone not dungon.

    This as well as losing xp but not delevelling, the Op ask for solutions when in fact there was nothing wrong with the EQ way. Yes it can become less rigid but still pretty darn risky. 

    And the swotr comment from the other person is pretty pathetic. This game needs nothing from that mmo. 




  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    DMKano said:
    I say XP loss on death.

    That's it.

    Naked corpse runs are punitive enough to make for a timid player base afraid of taking big risks, and IMO that's not good. I think this was fine 15 years ago, but I honestly would hate to do naked corpse runs today. I don't have time for that.

    So you die, you lose XP - perfect system for Pantheon IMO.

    Maybe pay some coin on death too - so it's a money sink as well.

    Having to run accross the world naked in a game without fast travel - just no, I have better use of my time

    All of the above is 100% my personal preference - please don't take it as gospel


    Perhaps you need to go where your better time is spent then, I suspect many people who follow this game have no problem with it. 

    There is always Rift to fall back on pal lol. 




  • cheeseheadscheeseheads Member UncommonPosts: 73
    make it so hard if you die you go back to level 1
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,941
    edited January 2017
    DMKano said:
    I say XP loss on death.

    That's it.

    Naked corpse runs are punitive enough to make for a timid player base afraid of taking big risks, and IMO that's not good. I think this was fine 15 years ago, but I honestly would hate to do naked corpse runs today. I don't have time for that.

    So you die, you lose XP - perfect system for Pantheon IMO.

    Maybe pay some coin on death too - so it's a money sink as well.

    Having to run accross the world naked in a game without fast travel - just no, I have better use of my time

    All of the above is 100% my personal preference - please don't take it as gospel

    I agree with you 100%,


    Naked corps runs are bad.  Not only are they timely but add unneeded stress to THAT player, and piss off a group !


    Sure, the player should feel some kind of cost, maybe even severe but not this..... This is when players start leaving groups, waiting for others.


    OP you might not understand this because you did not play Everquest back when in launched in 1999 but a combination of things made corpse retrieval an integral part of the game . There are a few reasons and let me enumerate them.


    • The body could be stuck in a horrible place and very difficult to get to alone and would probably lead to more death and loss of experience. This means you cannot do it alone unless you want to lose several levels and face actually losing everything.
    • The fact that there was a timer on your corpse and it could decay altogether
    • There were very few other online games to play aside from UO and AC. There were no real options for you to leave if this mechanic made you ragequit. In fact someone who lost 30 levels dying repeatedly having unwisely chose his bind point in the room he was dying in (fell asleep after long camp) quit the game but returned after a month having nothing else to play. We all pitched in to help the bozo level up after that and it was a running joke about how he had bound himself in the room and lost all those levels and he never lived it down plus he was a "druid".
    • It made people pitch in to help others in the same zone who may have helped them get their body, a sense of owing people a favour and returning one and knowing the terror of loss of months of work for themselves. 
    • People were very careful where they went and with whom, you do not go to dangerous places with players who have  bad reputations who run off at the first sign of trouble. They gated out and left you. That actually has happened in Everquest people just up and gating (gate spell a port) out. Mainly casters and anyone who had the necklace with gate on it (rare thing to get). I recall hearing someone shouting in Commonlands place since that is where they had most folk congregating to trade and sell things in the tunnels that so and so had gated and left the group to die. Everyone was outraged and that person never came back well at least not with that character.
    • If a cleric came with you to help get your corpse you got a considerable amount of experience back when they rezzed you.
    • It made sure you knew who your friends were ; you know fine weather friends and all
    • Generally not playing unless you could also devote some time to the possibility of a corpse retrieval
    • Guilds were important because when you asked in guildchat for help people immediately responded because they knew the importance of the retrieval and wanted to be helped in turn if they lost theirs. Since the chat was seen by everyone it made sense for people to respond and even explain why they could not help. It nurtured the guild space and also allowed some people to take charge and organize a corpse retrieval group. This allows for a sense of responsibility, cooperation, guild spirit and some adventure. It also allowed certain guild members to cultivate a reputation for helping and "being there" for others and this is a roleplay of sorts.
    • Good or bad stories and memories are created.
    Post edited by kitarad on

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    kitarad said:
    DMKano said:
    I say XP loss on death.

    That's it.

    Naked corpse runs are punitive enough to make for a timid player base afraid of taking big risks, and IMO that's not good. I think this was fine 15 years ago, but I honestly would hate to do naked corpse runs today. I don't have time for that.

    So you die, you lose XP - perfect system for Pantheon IMO.

    Maybe pay some coin on death too - so it's a money sink as well.

    Having to run accross the world naked in a game without fast travel - just no, I have better use of my time

    All of the above is 100% my personal preference - please don't take it as gospel

    I agree with you 100%,


    Naked corps runs are bad.  Not only are they timely but add unneeded stress to THAT player, and piss off a group !


    Sure, the player should feel some kind of cost, maybe even severe but not this..... This is when players start leaving groups, waiting for others.


    OP you might not understand this because you did not play Everquest back when in launched in 1999 but a combination of things made corpse retrieval an integral part of the game . There are a few reasons and let me enumerate them.


    • The body could be stuck in a horrible place and very difficult to get to alone and would probably lead to more death and loss of experience. This means you cannot do it alone unless you want to lose several levels and face actually losing everything.
    • The fact that there was a timer on your corpse and it could decay altogether
    • There were very few other online games to play aside from UO and AC. There were no real options for you to leave if this mechanic made you ragequit. In fact someone who lost 30 levels dying repeatedly having unwisely chose his bind point in the room he was dying in (fell asleep after long camp) quit the game but returned after a month having nothing else to play. We all pitched in to help the bozo level up after that and it was a running joke about how he had bound himself in the room and lost all those levels and he never lived it down plus he was a "druid".
    • It made people pitch in to help others in the same zone who may have helped them get their body, a sense of owing people a favour and returning one and knowing the terror of loss of months of work for themselves. 
    • People were very careful where they went and with whom, you do not go to dangerous places with players who have  bad reputations who run off at the first sign of trouble. They gated out and left you. That actually has happened in Everquest people just up and gating (gate spell a port) out. Mainly casters and anyone who had the necklace with gate on it (rare thing to get). I recall hearing someone shouting in Commonlands place since that is where they had most folk congregating to trade and sell things in the tunnels that so and so had gated and left the group to die. Everyone was outraged and that person never came back well at least not with that character.
    • If a cleric came with you to help get your corpse you got a considerable amount of experience back when they rezzed you.
    • It made sure you knew who your friends were ; you know fine weather friends and all
    • Generally not playing unless you could also devote some time to the possibility of a corpse retrieval
    • Guilds were important because when you asked in guildchat for help people immediately responded because they knew the importance of the retrieval and wanted to be helped in turn if they lost theirs. Since the chat was seen by everyone it made sense for people to respond and even explain why they could not help. It nurtured the guild space and also allowed some people to take charge and organize a corpse retrieval group. This allows for a sense of responsibility, cooperation, guild spirit and some adventure. It also allowed certain guild members to cultivate a reputation for helping and "being there" for others and this is a roleplay of sorts.
    • Good or bad stories and memories are created.

    I could respect your way off looking at death consequence's.  After all that's what this post is about.

    Everyone's views and ideas !
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,941
    Not sure it will be the right thing in the current climate and population of games. 

  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    Obviously in a group the guy that died wasnt always to blame so I dont like any idea that implies "you died so it should cost you gold - suck less". 

    Whats wrong with res spells?  Lose your buffs and a token xp and suffer a 5 min res sickness.  Im not saying to carboncopy EQ, but of all the games Ive played that death mechanic and penalty remains the best imo.
  • Pyde-PyperPyde-Pyper Member UncommonPosts: 32
    kitarad said:
    OP you might not understand this because you did not play Everquest back when in launched in 1999 but a combination of things made corpse retrieval an integral part of the game . There are a few reasons and let me enumerate them.


    • The body could be stuck in a horrible place and very difficult to get to alone and would probably lead to more death and loss of experience. This means you cannot do it alone unless you want to lose several levels and face actually losing everything.
    • The fact that there was a timer on your corpse and it could decay altogether
    • There were very few other online games to play aside from UO and AC. There were no real options for you to leave if this mechanic made you ragequit. In fact someone who lost 30 levels dying repeatedly having unwisely chose his bind point in the room he was dying in (fell asleep after long camp) quit the game but returned after a month having nothing else to play. We all pitched in to help the bozo level up after that and it was a running joke about how he had bound himself in the room and lost all those levels and he never lived it down plus he was a "druid".
    • It made people pitch in to help others in the same zone who may have helped them get their body, a sense of owing people a favour and returning one and knowing the terror of loss of months of work for themselves. 
    • People were very careful where they went and with whom, you do not go to dangerous places with players who have  bad reputations who run off at the first sign of trouble. They gated out and left you. That actually has happened in Everquest people just up and gating (gate spell a port) out. Mainly casters and anyone who had the necklace with gate on it (rare thing to get). I recall hearing someone shouting in Commonlands place since that is where they had most folk congregating to trade and sell things in the tunnels that so and so had gated and left the group to die. Everyone was outraged and that person never came back well at least not with that character.
    • If a cleric came with you to help get your corpse you got a considerable amount of experience back when they rezzed you.
    • It made sure you knew who your friends were ; you know fine weather friends and all
    • Generally not playing unless you could also devote some time to the possibility of a corpse retrieval
    • Guilds were important because when you asked in guildchat for help people immediately responded because they knew the importance of the retrieval and wanted to be helped in turn if they lost theirs. Since the chat was seen by everyone it made sense for people to respond and even explain why they could not help. It nurtured the guild space and also allowed some people to take charge and organize a corpse retrieval group. This allows for a sense of responsibility, cooperation, guild spirit and some adventure. It also allowed certain guild members to cultivate a reputation for helping and "being there" for others and this is a roleplay of sorts.
    • Good or bad stories and memories are created.
    Thank you for posting this. I personally believe there are folks out there that forget about all of the good a corpse run can bring to the table. 

    I always played (In MUDS) as a Cleric and would solo drag (Sneak boots anyone?) corpses from anywhere in the world to help players. I was well known in the world that I would always lend a helping hand. Heck people would even stack corpses at a major city and wait for me to log in. They would have me resurrect each corpse to gain back their exp. It took a lot of my play time to help others. BUT guess what. Every time I ever needed anything in that world there was always another player willing to help me. What a nice side effect of helping others.

    Oh how the times have changed. Now it's all about the fastest way to instant gratification. 

    Ok on to OP.....

    Solution = Don't change what isn't broke. Original EQ had it right from square one. Let's just leave it alone already.
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    kitarad said:
    OP you might not understand this because you did not play Everquest back when in launched in 1999 but a combination of things made corpse retrieval an integral part of the game . There are a few reasons and let me enumerate them.


    • The body could be stuck in a horrible place and very difficult to get to alone and would probably lead to more death and loss of experience. This means you cannot do it alone unless you want to lose several levels and face actually losing everything.
    • The fact that there was a timer on your corpse and it could decay altogether
    • There were very few other online games to play aside from UO and AC. There were no real options for you to leave if this mechanic made you ragequit. In fact someone who lost 30 levels dying repeatedly having unwisely chose his bind point in the room he was dying in (fell asleep after long camp) quit the game but returned after a month having nothing else to play. We all pitched in to help the bozo level up after that and it was a running joke about how he had bound himself in the room and lost all those levels and he never lived it down plus he was a "druid".
    • It made people pitch in to help others in the same zone who may have helped them get their body, a sense of owing people a favour and returning one and knowing the terror of loss of months of work for themselves. 
    • People were very careful where they went and with whom, you do not go to dangerous places with players who have  bad reputations who run off at the first sign of trouble. They gated out and left you. That actually has happened in Everquest people just up and gating (gate spell a port) out. Mainly casters and anyone who had the necklace with gate on it (rare thing to get). I recall hearing someone shouting in Commonlands place since that is where they had most folk congregating to trade and sell things in the tunnels that so and so had gated and left the group to die. Everyone was outraged and that person never came back well at least not with that character.
    • If a cleric came with you to help get your corpse you got a considerable amount of experience back when they rezzed you.
    • It made sure you knew who your friends were ; you know fine weather friends and all
    • Generally not playing unless you could also devote some time to the possibility of a corpse retrieval
    • Guilds were important because when you asked in guildchat for help people immediately responded because they knew the importance of the retrieval and wanted to be helped in turn if they lost theirs. Since the chat was seen by everyone it made sense for people to respond and even explain why they could not help. It nurtured the guild space and also allowed some people to take charge and organize a corpse retrieval group. This allows for a sense of responsibility, cooperation, guild spirit and some adventure. It also allowed certain guild members to cultivate a reputation for helping and "being there" for others and this is a roleplay of sorts.
    • Good or bad stories and memories are created.
    Thank you for posting this. I personally believe there are folks out there that forget about all of the good a corpse run can bring to the table. 

    I always played (In MUDS) as a Cleric and would solo drag (Sneak boots anyone?) corpses from anywhere in the world to help players. I was well known in the world that I would always lend a helping hand. Heck people would even stack corpses at a major city and wait for me to log in. They would have me resurrect each corpse to gain back their exp. It took a lot of my play time to help others. BUT guess what. Every time I ever needed anything in that world there was always another player willing to help me. What a nice side effect of helping others.

    Oh how the times have changed. Now it's all about the fastest way to instant gratification. 

    Ok on to OP.....

    Solution = Don't change what isn't broke. Original EQ had it right from square one. Let's just leave it alone already.
    In early EQ, I meet a lot of people and made a lot of friends, locating corpses with my bard. I would often do this while waiting for my regular group to get online. Of course back in those days, people were willing to help others even when they didn't know them. I like to think this is something that is not totally lost in today players but I guess if they chose a similar death penalty, we will see.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    perma death full loot action style combat and gear matters,  works for survival games and they are popular so why not mmo's
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,308
    edited January 2017
    kitarad said:
    DMKano said:
    I say XP loss on death.

    That's it.

    Naked corpse runs are punitive enough to make for a timid player base afraid of taking big risks, and IMO that's not good. I think this was fine 15 years ago, but I honestly would hate to do naked corpse runs today. I don't have time for that.

    So you die, you lose XP - perfect system for Pantheon IMO.

    Maybe pay some coin on death too - so it's a money sink as well.

    Having to run accross the world naked in a game without fast travel - just no, I have better use of my time

    All of the above is 100% my personal preference - please don't take it as gospel

    I agree with you 100%,


    Naked corps runs are bad.  Not only are they timely but add unneeded stress to THAT player, and piss off a group !


    Sure, the player should feel some kind of cost, maybe even severe but not this..... This is when players start leaving groups, waiting for others.


    OP you might not understand this because you did not play Everquest back when in launched in 1999 but a combination of things made corpse retrieval an integral part of the game . There are a few reasons and let me enumerate them.


    • The body could be stuck in a horrible place and very difficult to get to alone and would probably lead to more death and loss of experience. This means you cannot do it alone unless you want to lose several levels and face actually losing everything.
    • The fact that there was a timer on your corpse and it could decay altogether
    • There were very few other online games to play aside from UO and AC. There were no real options for you to leave if this mechanic made you ragequit. In fact someone who lost 30 levels dying repeatedly having unwisely chose his bind point in the room he was dying in (fell asleep after long camp) quit the game but returned after a month having nothing else to play. We all pitched in to help the bozo level up after that and it was a running joke about how he had bound himself in the room and lost all those levels and he never lived it down plus he was a "druid".
    • It made people pitch in to help others in the same zone who may have helped them get their body, a sense of owing people a favour and returning one and knowing the terror of loss of months of work for themselves. 
    • People were very careful where they went and with whom, you do not go to dangerous places with players who have  bad reputations who run off at the first sign of trouble. They gated out and left you. That actually has happened in Everquest people just up and gating (gate spell a port) out. Mainly casters and anyone who had the necklace with gate on it (rare thing to get). I recall hearing someone shouting in Commonlands place since that is where they had most folk congregating to trade and sell things in the tunnels that so and so had gated and left the group to die. Everyone was outraged and that person never came back well at least not with that character.
    • If a cleric came with you to help get your corpse you got a considerable amount of experience back when they rezzed you.
    • It made sure you knew who your friends were ; you know fine weather friends and all
    • Generally not playing unless you could also devote some time to the possibility of a corpse retrieval
    • Guilds were important because when you asked in guildchat for help people immediately responded because they knew the importance of the retrieval and wanted to be helped in turn if they lost theirs. Since the chat was seen by everyone it made sense for people to respond and even explain why they could not help. It nurtured the guild space and also allowed some people to take charge and organize a corpse retrieval group. This allows for a sense of responsibility, cooperation, guild spirit and some adventure. It also allowed certain guild members to cultivate a reputation for helping and "being there" for others and this is a roleplay of sorts.
    • Good or bad stories and memories are created.
    excellent post! my favorite EQ memory was back when i was a newb and lost my corpse in everfrost and spent literally 5 or 6 hours trying to find it until a guild that was in the zone i didn't even know eventually helped me search for it and we found it but i died again like 5 minutes later LOL

    they were making fun of me and i made new friends from it. honestly, it was that experience that hooked me.

    now, will that type of experience translate to the mmo genre currently? with all the other options now vs back then? it's a justifiable concern but we shall see.


  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    A lot of topics seem to turn into death penalties.  In the early mmos days, this was never thought out very deeply or they simply back fired as a bad idea for most.

    Can everyone forget the past and offer their solution ?.......In my opinion, all mmos suck, everyone, all the way to 2017 !

    Here is a few of my solutions:

    First,  " groups shouldn't suffer ".  Time after time, you assemble a group, everyone is joking and having a good time.  Everyone is doing a good job.  Tanks are tanking, healers are healing, and fighters are waiting for there time to strike causing a lot of damage.  Everything is going just fine, friends are being made............UNTIL SOMEONE DIES !.............. We all know it's down hill from here.  Fighting breaks out, blaming takes place, leaving groups happens, Some games even have a kick feature !.......EVERYONE HATES WAITING FOR A PLAYER TO RETURN, AND THE PLAYER IS EMBARRASSED.  

    1)  Have the individual players armor and weapons break rapidly !
     All players have a separate bag just for replaceable armor and weapons.  This idea has many benefits.  It makes them pay for equipment during off times out of grouping, and increased the need for crafting !

    2)  Have a separate "injury meter".
    Just like health, stamina, and mana bars, the player has "injury bar". This bar is sustaining and has to be dealt with at some point, but not during a group encounter. 

    - Maybe a hot key needs to be PRESSED OFTEN  or fighting damage is weakened if not. 

    - Maybe the player simply needs to see a doctor when in town after the group and has to pay a hefty doctor bill, just hope they have good insurance :) 

    3)  Group wipes - Remember Warlocks in World of Warcraft ?... They had " SoulStones ".  They were to be given to the resurrection classes for instant resurrections. This was a good idea !   Make it EASY but everyone's armor is severely damaged or effects their injury bar.   

    I dunno, tour point is valid but your solutions could be better.

    1. Do you mean the items perma break fast or just needs to be repaired? In either cases it just leads to people  carrying around an insane amount of crap on them. I rather not carry 5 swords and 5 sets of armors.
    While most swords since the vikings just weight 1.2kilos they are bulky, want to have a sword caddie with you? Not to mention that a chainmail is another 10kg, helmet 2-3kg and then you have bracers, gauntlets, boots and leggings. so 5 extra chain armors would be 75kg minimum + the one on you.
    That is just the realism though (even if each player would need a cart to be realistic), it isn't very fun either. I am all for skipping realism for fun but here is isn't the case.

    Besides, actually making a chainmail useless takes a lot of punishment, preferably by an axe. Making any armor with some damage slightly less protective is fine and even realistic, rewarding players that dodges, parry or otherwise avoiding damage while punishing punching bags. You can do that the second it takes any damage.

    2. I rather have critical wounds you need to go to a temple or hospital to heal. Like a broken arm, destroyed eye and similar nasty stuff. But you need to balance things so you don't overdo it, a regular dungeon shouldn't lead to more then 3-5 of those unless you really mess up and a good player should be able to avoid it or at least avoid most of it.

    3. Better then the other 2 as long as you get serious penalties for instant rezzes, and I rather have more then just damaged gear for that type of rezz, loss of XP or gold as well.

    That players stagger out of dungeons half dead has an appeal, it worked pretty well in Guildwars for instance but the penalty really should stick until the players leave the dungeon or get to a temple. Just changing clothes don't cut it unless you have a severe view on carrying capacity and go realistic.
  • ZoeMcCloskeyZoeMcCloskey Member UncommonPosts: 1,372
    Is a very tough subject.  If there is nothing bad at all then you end up with "no risk, no reward."  On the other hand not sure even I'd put up with the old style Everquest 1 situations where people are having to take down real world information so they can call you to login when they got your body to where you can recover your items. :P  

    I think ideas to do with decay and/or breaking of items is a good track.  Especially if it would allow full time crafting as an option in the game.  Building new supplies of things the adventurers need for adventuring!

    image
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    Loke666 said:
    A lot of topics seem to turn into death penalties.  In the early mmos days, this was never thought out very deeply or they simply back fired as a bad idea for most.

    Can everyone forget the past and offer their solution ?.......In my opinion, all mmos suck, everyone, all the way to 2017 !

    Here is a few of my solutions:

    First,  " groups shouldn't suffer ".  Time after time, you assemble a group, everyone is joking and having a good time.  Everyone is doing a good job.  Tanks are tanking, healers are healing, and fighters are waiting for there time to strike causing a lot of damage.  Everything is going just fine, friends are being made............UNTIL SOMEONE DIES !.............. We all know it's down hill from here.  Fighting breaks out, blaming takes place, leaving groups happens, Some games even have a kick feature !.......EVERYONE HATES WAITING FOR A PLAYER TO RETURN, AND THE PLAYER IS EMBARRASSED.  

    1)  Have the individual players armor and weapons break rapidly !
     All players have a separate bag just for replaceable armor and weapons.  This idea has many benefits.  It makes them pay for equipment during off times out of grouping, and increased the need for crafting !

    2)  Have a separate "injury meter".
    Just like health, stamina, and mana bars, the player has "injury bar". This bar is sustaining and has to be dealt with at some point, but not during a group encounter. 

    - Maybe a hot key needs to be PRESSED OFTEN  or fighting damage is weakened if not. 

    - Maybe the player simply needs to see a doctor when in town after the group and has to pay a hefty doctor bill, just hope they have good insurance :) 

    3)  Group wipes - Remember Warlocks in World of Warcraft ?... They had " SoulStones ".  They were to be given to the resurrection classes for instant resurrections. This was a good idea !   Make it EASY but everyone's armor is severely damaged or effects their injury bar.   

    I dunno, tour point is valid but your solutions could be better.

    1. Do you mean the items perma break fast or just needs to be repaired? In either cases it just leads to people  carrying around an insane amount of crap on them. I rather not carry 5 swords and 5 sets of armors.
    While most swords since the vikings just weight 1.2kilos they are bulky, want to have a sword caddie with you? Not to mention that a chainmail is another 10kg, helmet 2-3kg and then you have bracers, gauntlets, boots and leggings. so 5 extra chain armors would be 75kg minimum + the one on you.
    That is just the realism though (even if each player would need a cart to be realistic), it isn't very fun either. I am all for skipping realism for fun but here is isn't the case.

    Besides, actually making a chainmail useless takes a lot of punishment, preferably by an axe. Making any armor with some damage slightly less protective is fine and even realistic, rewarding players that dodges, parry or otherwise avoiding damage while punishing punching bags. You can do that the second it takes any damage.

    2. I rather have critical wounds you need to go to a temple or hospital to heal. Like a broken arm, destroyed eye and similar nasty stuff. But you need to balance things so you don't overdo it, a regular dungeon shouldn't lead to more then 3-5 of those unless you really mess up and a good player should be able to avoid it or at least avoid most of it.

    3. Better then the other 2 as long as you get serious penalties for instant rezzes, and I rather have more then just damaged gear for that type of rezz, loss of XP or gold as well.

    That players stagger out of dungeons half dead has an appeal, it worked pretty well in Guildwars for instance but the penalty really should stick until the players leave the dungeon or get to a temple. Just changing clothes don't cut it unless you have a severe view on carrying capacity and go realistic.

    My examples are only used as examples......My main point is to grab some of the solo players.


    Many solo players play solo because of the risk of being embarrassed.... And corps runs are embarrassing.......Long waits causes arguments too.


    I'm all for harsh, just not corps runs where the groups pay the price !!
  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 3,044
    edited January 2017
    Pantheon is marketed for old and new players alike right?

    New players:

    Wont play with a system like old eq , corpse runs , losing gear , exp ....none of that will work for them.

    Old players

    how old are we? , we arent in college anymore.

    corpse runs is a no-no , losing exp ugh that can be dangerous too ....we all make mistakes , have a bad day , lag , DC , or w/e ....and isnt only pugs , a full guild group can be as bad if not worse ....

    i just want to have fun , w/o feeling like im in 1999 when i die , or wasting my 2h night of play time recoviring a corpse or getting the exp lost back ....that will put me off the game


  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Warlyx said:
    Pantheon is marketed for old and new players alike right?

    New players:

    Wont play with a system like old eq , corpse runs , losing gear , exp ....none of that will work for them.

    Old players

    how old are we? , we arent in college anymore.

    corpse runs is a no-no , losing exp ugh that can be dangerous too ....we all make mistakes , have a bad day , lag , DC , or w/e ....and isnt only pugs , a full guild group can be as bad if not worse ....

    i just want to have fun , w/o feeling like im in 1999 when i die , or wasting my 2h night of play time recoviring a corpse or getting the exp lost back ....that will put me off the game



    Oh well perhaps this isn't the game for you because I suspect most of the followers disagree. 

    Pantheon is being made for a niche player base who want that old EQ feel and mechanics. Yes they can be improved but thats what most want. 

    Yes the game is welcoming new players but it's welcoming them to try out this type of mmo which goes back to the roots of what mmo's were. 

    The devs are not going to sacrifice that to appease the fickle new mmo player who want more of the same mmo tripe we have been serve up for years. 





  • IshkalIshkal Member UncommonPosts: 304
    There has never been anything wrong with the death penalty systems. If you die suck it up for being badz and get better. What we don't need is more carebear an less skill. Yay a world were you don't die, next you'll be all like well doesn't it sucjk that my gear breaks. STOP THE GEAR BREAK NOW!!!!! Or wait doesn't it suck that you have to lvl up, NO MORE LEVELING NOW!!!!! OMG I hate havez to get moneyz NO MORE MONEYZ NOW!!!!! pish I could go on an on with all the things that are annoying in a game that would actually ruin the games if ya got what you wanted. Mostly its not that you die its that you were bad enough to die. Most grps with a competent tank an healer don't have deaths even if the grp is bad, jus saying there is your solution to in game death, no game revamps needed. For solo death is part of the journey you learn from each death. I remember when a goal in wow was to go a whole play session with out a death and it was fun as hell. I don't think Pantheon is trying to be the wow as it is, they want to be what wow was when it was great. Which means running yer arse for 15min to your body! We don't need new players to play for the game to succeed all the players that are the only reason you have wow today will play the rest of them will tag along later once they can be carried as usual.
  • MendelMendel Member EpicPosts: 3,896
    Warlyx said:
    Pantheon is marketed for old and new players alike right?

    New players:

    Wont play with a system like old eq , corpse runs , losing gear , exp ....none of that will work for them.

    Old players

    how old are we? , we arent in college anymore.

    corpse runs is a no-no , losing exp ugh that can be dangerous too ....we all make mistakes , have a bad day , lag , DC , or w/e ....and isnt only pugs , a full guild group can be as bad if not worse ....

    i just want to have fun , w/o feeling like im in 1999 when i die , or wasting my 2h night of play time recoviring a corpse or getting the exp lost back ....that will put me off the game



    Oh well perhaps this isn't the game for you because I suspect most of the followers disagree. 

    Pantheon is being made for a niche player base who want that old EQ feel and mechanics. Yes they can be improved but thats what most want. 

    Yes the game is welcoming new players but it's welcoming them to try out this type of mmo which goes back to the roots of what mmo's were. 

    The devs are not going to sacrifice that to appease the fickle new mmo player who want more of the same mmo tripe we have been serve up for years. 

    I don't know, @SavageHorizon.  There are times when I think that the developers may be on to something -- that MMORPGs have strayed too far from their roots -- then I think that Pantheon's development is following the only path that Brad understands -- reproducing EQ1 / Vanguard without any features from 20 years of evolution / improvement.  Whether this formula will prove successful or not is yet to be determined.  My suspicion is that the 'niche' market won't be large enough to sustain this kind of product and a return to the harsh ideas and mechanisms that have softened over the years will eventually drive people, both old and new, away.  Not accommodating that 'fickle new mmo player' is likely to be a strategic mistake, and the bulk of their income may simply walk to that 'mmo tripe'. 


    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member EpicPosts: 8,537
    edited January 2017
    I would be ok if everyone had a res ability but only pure healers should have reses that give back a % of exp loss. IMO I think heavy death penalties only hinder group play. I would be much happier if it was just reduced to repair costs. Why? Because death penalties really only effect low level players learning the game. At higher levels no one cares about them. Run back times and a few coin is all you need to really keep the fear of death going. As often you need to escort people back if you dont have a healer.  
Sign In or Register to comment.