Game On - Visionary Realms Talks Pantheon & Industry Jobs - Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - MMORPG.c

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Game On - Visionary Realms Talks Pantheon & Industry Jobs - Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen - MMORPG.com

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen News - On this special episode of the MMORPG.com Game On podcast, Visionary Realms takes over the podcast! Ever wonder how to get started in a video game career? Visionary Realms Chief Creative Officer Brad McQuaid and Lead Tester and Associate Designer Tim Wathen talk with Director of Communications Ben de la Durantaye about their experiences in the making of Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, the upcoming high-fantasy MMORPG.

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Kilsin

Great podcast guys!

Wizardry

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.

I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?

We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.

So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?

Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.

On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.

I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

Wellspring

I love hearing these types of podcasts. Anything to learn more about the inter-workings of the MMO development industry is great. Brad's knowledge and insight about the MMO industry is invaluable.

Dark_Lotus

Nice listen guys ! keep em coming xD

White_Lotus

This was a nice listen ! will there be more of these in the future?

Cendharia

Love this thanks Guys!!

Osho

Very nice, thanks for sharing all your stories and the general mood within the progression of the game development! Team members that have the heart at the right place... This was a nice one, Brad. Might be one of the special ingridients that accompany your visionary fantasy realms.

dcutbi001

I ingest everything Pantheon related I can, so thanks for doing this! It'll help get me through another day.

ste2000

Great Stuff!

Aradune

Wizardry said:

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.



I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?



We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.



So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?



Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.



On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.



I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

If you haven't already, check out the streams -- 30+ FPS in 1080p on an average PC. We've seen zero indication that Unity can't handle an MMO like Pantheon -- quite the opposite in fact.

Maric

Great job and keep covering Pantheon. Continually impressed by the progress of this team.

Boggie011

Is this Podcast still available to watch back? I missed it but I don't actually see it posted on this page?

Aradune

Boggie011 said:

Is this Podcast still available to watch back? I missed it but I don't actually see it posted on this page?

I still see it there on the top -- refresh? Use the link from our FB or website?

Vaultarn

Thanks for doing the podcast guys, great listen! :-)

SavageHorizon

Great listen guys.

SavageHorizon

Wizardry said:

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.



I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?



We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.



So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?



Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.



On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.



I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

Ffxi was perfect, I forgot just how perfect it was.

Oh and stop using the word 'we' like everyone agrees with you or you speak for everyone else.

goboygo

Aradune said:

Wizardry said:

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.



I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?



We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.



So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?



Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.



On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.



I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

If you haven't already, check out the streams -- 30+ FPS in 1080p on an average PC. We've seen zero indication that Unity can't handle an MMO like Pantheon -- quite the opposite in fact.

30 FPS is a freaking joke, who are you kidding.  Anything less then 70 is a complete failure of game development. Its no coincidence that some of the best looking games ever made also achieve the highest consistent frame rates.  Anything less is amateur hour.

I'm not saying Pantheon wont achieve stellar frames and decent graphics but your comment is lunacy.

tayloronline

goboygo said:

Aradune said:

Wizardry said:

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.





I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?





We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.





So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?





Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.





On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.





I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

If you haven't already, check out the streams -- 30+ FPS in 1080p on an average PC. We've seen zero indication that Unity can't handle an MMO like Pantheon -- quite the opposite in fact.

30 FPS is a freaking joke, who are you kidding.  Anything less then 70 is a complete failure of game development. Its no coincidence that some of the best looking games ever made also achieve the highest consistent frame rates.  Anything less is amateur hour.

I'm not saying Pantheon wont achieve stellar frames and decent graphics but your comment is lunacy.

Can't tell if you're /s or just clueless?

Arumar

Wizardry said:

Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.

You can never blame an engine for poor frame rates. It comes down to design, optimization, and correct use of LOD, occlusion culling, batching, GPU instancing, and other important techniques which can reduce the overall draw call and set-pass count per frame. You also need to be very smart about how many threads, coroutines, and general update loops are active at any one time. A lot of inexperienced developers fail in many or all of these areas, and so their frame rates suffer.

If Project Gorgon has poor frame rates, you can't blame Unity. The developers just need to learn how to optimize their zones and graphic pipeline in general.

PottedPlant22

Wow so glad I took some time to listen to this. Thanks so much for doing the podcast!

nahilu

People Talk Frame Rates ? Graphic ? GUYS IT IS FUCKING EVERQUEST who cares ... Project 1999 is still FULL of people and Project 2002 and tons of old school EQ server are still running , THIS GAME is for those player , for EQ FAN ! and EQ Fan don't give a shit about FPS and where the game industry is atm fighting for 2 millions poly model or 4 millions model WE DON'T CARE !!!! All we want is REVIVE EVERQUEST Gameplay the SAME MECANIC THE SAME GAME in a new Engine. IDC if you think EQ was bugged and if you don't like EQ what are you doing here ? I am not reading and commenting on next Call Of Duty IDC about CoD ! If you don't care about EverQuest what are you doing here ?

MrMelGibson

goboygo said:

Aradune said:

Wizardry said:

It is interesting they chose this area to talk about but i would have liked to hear more depth in each area in comparison to the past.



I think we all know how buggy the EQ franchises were,imo the worst of any games i have ever played.VG i remember basically the falling through world that happened a lot.So makes us wonder did anyone not test those games?



We also remember how poorly the EQ games were optimized,the lag/framerates were awful.



So did any of those teams not have a process a goal to achieve a certain polycount ?



Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.



On this testing,it is not like they make a ton of content everyday,so how do areas of a game get through the cracks with game breaking code?I don't like to use the term "bugs"it is simply coding errors.



I still remember that Wow Cataclysym was no better,3 of the main 6 big quests had the questline broken to the point we could not finish them.I asked in chat and people said they were broken way back in Beta 2+ weeks ago.My point is that testing does not seem to matter,devs will release their games anyhow in any state.In EQ we saw mobs not loading properly,their parts all scattered in a mess,in VG i saw the Rogue class was way op and they had to know it,so yeah it just seems these games are a rush job.

If you haven't already, check out the streams -- 30+ FPS in 1080p on an average PC. We've seen zero indication that Unity can't handle an MMO like Pantheon -- quite the opposite in fact.

30 FPS is a freaking joke, who are you kidding.  Anything less then 70 is a complete failure of game development. Its no coincidence that some of the best looking games ever made also achieve the highest consistent frame rates.  Anything less is amateur hour.

I'm not saying Pantheon wont achieve stellar frames and decent graphics but your comment is lunacy.

It's painfully obvious you missed the part about "on an average PC".  You know, like your mom's laptop she only uses for email and occassional FB.

Wizardry

Arumar said:

Wizardry said:

Unity engine...I have never even tried to learn it but i do know that Project Gorgon runs on Unity and it is terrible.A low poly game and i would get framerates of 1/2/3/5/15 yeah just awful.Hearthstone runs on Unity and again a very low poly game that does not run all that great.

You can never blame an engine for poor frame rates. It comes down to design, optimization, and correct use of LOD, occlusion culling, batching, GPU instancing, and other important techniques which can reduce the overall draw call and set-pass count per frame. You also need to be very smart about how many threads, coroutines, and general update loops are active at any one time. A lot of inexperienced developers fail in many or all of these areas, and so their frame rates suffer.

If Project Gorgon has poor frame rates, you can't blame Unity. The developers just need to learn how to optimize their zones and graphic pipeline in general.

Well yes actually i can blame an engine but as  i said ,i have never tried to remotely look into Unity engine.Some engines are just not good  at lowering polycounts.As well i have not seen anything good under Unity,someone can direct me to a game if it exists?I looked down the list fo rpg's ,i don't see anything very good,i noticed Shroud is also using Unity and i am pretty sure i heard complaints there and it is not a high end game either.

But yes of course most of it matters via the developer which is why i made a point of noting several past games that proved testing was NOT an important factor in game releases.

Yes i also watched some streams,those are not a strong indication because we don't know the power of those PC's,nor do we know what is turned on like Shaders/lighting effects,shadows,particle effects,more mobs ,more players on screen,music/environment sounds,reflective surfaces,quality of textures loaded etc etc.The ONLY base we have to go on is the past games so i will remain skeptical until i see better.

Ozmodan

Unity?  Sorry, but good luck, if you get group of people on the screen, it will crawl.  Why would you pick a low end tool to make a MMO?  Makes no sense whatsoever.  Cross another game off the list.

francis_baud

Arumar said:

You can never blame an engine for poor frame rates. It comes down to design, optimization, and correct use of LOD, occlusion culling, batching, GPU instancing, and other important techniques which can reduce the overall draw call and set-pass count per frame. You also need to be very smart about how many threads, coroutines, and general update loops are active at any one time. A lot of inexperienced developers fail in many or all of these areas, and so their frame rates suffer.

If Project Gorgon has poor frame rates, you can't blame Unity. The developers just need to learn how to optimize their zones and graphic pipeline in general.

Can you name even one Unity game that has decent performances when rendering graphically complicated scenes (high quality graphics, massive battles, large number of objects, long draw distance, fancy lighting effects, etc.)?