Slapshot1188 said: Only if you believe P2W is fine.
It does not matter what I believe in, that is how this world works - people always pay for getting better, getting power and there is nothing wrong with that.
If they haven't we would be still living on trees...
Only the fact is every P2W game becomes a failed game because the only people are left is a handful of people who bought everything with money and are fucking bored out of their skull because no one wants to play with them. Then they too quit leaving the game a dead game. P2W is like today's US companies that Min Max their profits for a few years only to be ready to shut their doors 5 to 10 years later because they thought short term not WHAT TRULY WORKS which is the long term game. Just look at Evony that game was great for about a year now no one plays it because they are not willing to play a game where someone spent 10K to basically end up the most powerful in game in inside a week then slowly takes over the server. The game sucks and only these few players even play hardly at all.
Also look at JcPenny's they outsourced all their shit and bring in cheap products. Now they are what $7 a stock from being a $80 a stock company? Because they min maxed their profits and now no one fucking shops there for $60 jeans that are the same jeans sold at walmart for $10.
Sorry P2W is only how the world works right now because those are the people in power. O and now they are getting fucked.
Are there really that many morons that will contribute that much for a title or an in game nothing?
If being wealthy makes you a moron, what does being poor make of you?
He didn't say being rich makes you a moron. He said making stupid decisions with your money makes you a moron, essentially. You need to be at least, partially intelligent to insult someone properly. Apparently you've missed the boat.
The issue is not people donating money to fund games. What is problematic is the trend of selling outright power to fund the development of multiplayer games.
Just because you disagree with it or dislike it does not make it an issue.
Selling power is all fine as long as people are paying for it.
This is what we call ignorant. That water is not wet! Blasphemy!
Slapshot1188 said: Only if you believe P2W is fine.
It does not matter what I believe in, that is how this world works - people always pay for getting better, getting power and there is nothing wrong with that.
If they haven't we would be still living on trees...
People pay in life to get ahead. People cheat in life to get ahead. So we should ignore both P2W and cheating in games... yeah... I ain't buying that twisted logic.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Iselin said: So we should ignore both P2W and cheating in games... yeah... I ain't buying that twisted logic.
Never said it is logical or anything, but that is the reality - it drives mankind forward.
Pretending money should not play a role in games is futile and naive, immature...
It's none of those things and it's not pretending. It's simply about games having design integrity and no designs that are there for purposes other than good game play.
As soon as a game adds extra inconvenience for the sole purpose of directing players to the cash shop for relief of that inconvenience, they've lost their game design integrity.
It's just that it's been going on for so long and in so many ways in MMORPGs that you and many others have thrown their hands up into the air and gone into harm-reduction mode: it's no longer about not whoring the game play, now it's just about to what extent they'll whore it and how much that does or does not interfere with your enjoyment.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Iselin said: It's none of those things and it's not pretending.
Really? Did you even read your own post? You are just projecting your view and opinions onto others...
Pardon me. Let's exclude you because you actually prefer prostituted game design... I forgot.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
The chances of this project surviving development grow dimmer every day.
One thing that kickstarts have exposed is how rare it is for a game project to get completed and see a launch day.
Majority of game projects die in development, this is how it has always been, but the public didnt know because there was no early access or kickstarters, so unannounced games died and nobody outside of dev team knew.
Now everyone can see just how hard it is to develop what was promised.
Just remember for any new game in development, the highest likelyhood is that it wont ever be finished.
Just keeping it real.
About half of all marriages end in divorce. Investing in long term relationships can be mentally and emotionally costly. I'm guessing you wouldn't say that no one should commit to long term relationships though.
All we can do is be cautious when we take risks and keep trying.
That has been and will continue to be my mentality whether CoE succeeds or fails.
In terms of making money, it's a good idea because lots of whales will probably pay it. Why limit something you can sell when selling it costs you almost nothing? In this case, they are literally selling nothing but hopes and dreams, and it's costing them nothing to sell that, so why not if you need money and people will pay?
In terms of what's good or bad for the game itself, however...
Well, that depends on just how much having a ton of buy-in kings at the start of the game will hurt it. Honestly, if this game somehow comes to fruition, I think it'll hurt it a lot since the economy and balance will be quite lopsided from day 1. Still, from the perspective of a developer who desperately needs money to continue, that still beats running out of funds and having no game at all...
Selling power is all fine as long as people are paying for it.
Only if you believe P2W is fine.
Or have little impact on your personal game play.
I'd argue that would be one reason that you would believe P2W is fine
Well yes, that is what I was saying.
People say EVE has P2W elements and I understand their reasoning for saying so.
Yet they have had no impact on my personal gameplay (that is apparent to me) so I have no issue with their presence.
Where as in a few titles I could detect the impact from paid for advantage, or observe noticeable built in inconvenience designed to encourage me to spend more money.
The former does not bother me, but the latter will keep me from playing. (and paying)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
From my viewpoint, based on Caspien's comments, this now looks like it's moving from a Dec 2017 launch (KS ETA) to a 2019 launch. They need to fund that.
This thing has been nothing but a huge bait-n-switch from "GO!". The game will never see the light of day. And they want 10K from potential players?
Look deep? who didn't know that by the surface statement of what they were trying to deliver and when they said they'd release it? I wouldn't call it a failed estimation either, they knew more than anyone that wouldn't be the case. They may have a bare boned, void of real content, world walking simulator by then, it won't be a full fledged game for years (if ever).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From my viewpoint, based on Caspien's comments, this now looks like it's moving from a Dec 2017 launch (KS ETA) to a 2019 launch. They need to fund that.
Which is why the idea of more p2w sales like this one is floating around.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Just like any other hobby people can spend a lot of money on it because it makes them feel good. Shoes, cars, clothes, comic book collections, you name it people can spend money on it. I'm just glad there are only a few things I really like enough to spend money on. Currently none of the run in the 5K or 10K range department.
From what they said it sounded like you would have to have a way to hold on to your title and lands or you could lose them.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The real question here is..... Are people actually buying this?
Sure they are. Look a couple posts up to see the reasoning. Remember they aren't selling thousands of these, they are selling a handful, so it's all about exclusivity. Secondly, it's ruling, and rich people love power. Third, if you've ever played any P2W game, you can immediately recognize the people who have spent tens of thousands because the amount of "dick swinging" in chat is ridiculous. So, yes, it's a minority but people do buy these things.
The real question here is..... Are people actually buying this?
Sure they are. Look a couple posts up to see the reasoning. Remember they aren't selling thousands of these, they are selling a handful, so it's all about exclusivity. Secondly, it's ruling, and rich people love power. Third, if you've ever played any P2W game, you can immediately recognize the people who have spent tens of thousands because the amount of "dick swinging" in chat is ridiculous. So, yes, it's a minority but people do buy these things.
Sure, but I mean here, specifically. Has anyone bought a 10K package for COE? It's one thing to go into an established game and drop 10K over a year or even all at once. But has anyone said. I'll wait for this game in 2019 without knowing what the final product will truly look like, oh and here, take my money.
Has this developer actually sold any of these packages AND more importantly. How many do they need to sell to float this boat?
The real question here is..... Are people actually buying this?
Sure they are. Look a couple posts up to see the reasoning. Remember they aren't selling thousands of these, they are selling a handful, so it's all about exclusivity. Secondly, it's ruling, and rich people love power. Third, if you've ever played any P2W game, you can immediately recognize the people who have spent tens of thousands because the amount of "dick swinging" in chat is ridiculous. So, yes, it's a minority but people do buy these things.
Sure, but I mean here, specifically. Has anyone bought a 10K package for COE? It's one thing to go into an established game and drop 10K over a year or even all at once. But has anyone said. I'll wait for this game in 2019 without knowing what the final product will truly look like, oh and here, take my money.
Has this developer actually sold any of these packages AND more importantly. How many do they need to sell to float this boat?
They not only sold them, but on one server I believe they sold out and changed the rules to allow one high roller to buy a SECOND King slot!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
As a baby-whale of sorts myself who generally ends up guilding up with and hanging out with most other whales in MMOs, I found that a rule of thumb for most F2P MMOs is that "If you sell it, they will buy it". Not really me (Just a baby whale) but there's almost always someone who will.
Comments
Also look at JcPenny's they outsourced all their shit and bring in cheap products. Now they are what $7 a stock from being a $80 a stock company? Because they min maxed their profits and now no one fucking shops there for $60 jeans that are the same jeans sold at walmart for $10.
Sorry P2W is only how the world works right now because those are the people in power. O and now they are getting fucked.
Wealth and "stupid decisions" are relative, small minds remain tho.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Pretending money should not play a role in games is futile and naive....immature.
As soon as a game adds extra inconvenience for the sole purpose of directing players to the cash shop for relief of that inconvenience, they've lost their game design integrity.
It's just that it's been going on for so long and in so many ways in MMORPGs that you and many others have thrown their hands up into the air and gone into harm-reduction mode: it's no longer about not whoring the game play, now it's just about to what extent they'll whore it and how much that does or does not interfere with your enjoyment.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
All we can do is be cautious when we take risks and keep trying.
That has been and will continue to be my mentality whether CoE succeeds or fails.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A fool and his money are soon parted.
Seems CoE is counting on that.
In terms of making money, it's a good idea because lots of whales will probably pay it. Why limit something you can sell when selling it costs you almost nothing? In this case, they are literally selling nothing but hopes and dreams, and it's costing them nothing to sell that, so why not if you need money and people will pay?
In terms of what's good or bad for the game itself, however...
Well, that depends on just how much having a ton of buy-in kings at the start of the game will hurt it. Honestly, if this game somehow comes to fruition, I think it'll hurt it a lot since the economy and balance will be quite lopsided from day 1. Still, from the perspective of a developer who desperately needs money to continue, that still beats running out of funds and having no game at all...
People say EVE has P2W elements and I understand their reasoning for saying so.
Yet they have had no impact on my personal gameplay (that is apparent to me) so I have no issue with their presence.
Where as in a few titles I could detect the impact from paid for advantage, or observe noticeable built in inconvenience designed to encourage me to spend more money.
The former does not bother me, but the latter will keep me from playing. (and paying)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
And you ask good or bad?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
From what they said it sounded like you would have to have a way to hold on to your title and lands or you could lose them.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Are people actually buying this?
Sure they are. Look a couple posts up to see the reasoning. Remember they aren't selling thousands of these, they are selling a handful, so it's all about exclusivity. Secondly, it's ruling, and rich people love power. Third, if you've ever played any P2W game, you can immediately recognize the people who have spent tens of thousands because the amount of "dick swinging" in chat is ridiculous. So, yes, it's a minority but people do buy these things.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
It's one thing to go into an established game and drop 10K over a year or even all at once. But has anyone said. I'll wait for this game in 2019 without knowing what the final product will truly look like, oh and here, take my money.
Has this developer actually sold any of these packages AND more importantly. How many do they need to sell to float this boat?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018