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Is this MMO going to have a fully open world?

tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
I mean in the style of wow,eq swg or vanguard when they first launched. I don't want loading screens and small maps like swtor or eq2 etc..

Thanx..
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Comments

  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 800
    EQ had loading zones.  Pantheon will not have loading zones at launch.  Dungeons will have loading zones.  They say the map is going to be big.  Whatever that means.
  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    They mentioned zones, and there will be loading screens between zones. However, they said the zones are huge and the dungeons inside zones are large and persistent. So you wont zone into dungeons and other people outside your grp can be there. (same way EQ was).

    Not a huge fan of zones, but as long as they are large enough and open enough I am ok with it.

    I also hate when zones bottleneck you into the next one, like Aion. Had to follow the path to zone etc.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


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  • Kunai_VaxKunai_Vax Member RarePosts: 527
    The only game i've ever played where they made loading screens work is GW2. Cant really explain it, even though every zone has a loading screen it still feels like an open and massive world. 
    EQ2 did something similar at launch and it was horrible. 

  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    Pantheon is a zone based game, just like EQ zones and VG chunks although it does look seamless and is almost impossible to find the zone line at first glance but this decision was made very early on and would be extremely time-consuming and resource intensive to change, so it is not something we are considering at this time.

    There are many benefits to having large immersive zones and being able to control the performance and detail in them more closely is one large benefit. Our loading screens are relatively quick and will have lore friendly images and text and by doing it this way we can avoid using instancing as much as possible, leaving huge open world dungeons and caves to be explored by anyone on the server. :)

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,342
    edited January 2017
    Was it a decision (zones I mean)  based on using Unity? Or just a design decision early on regardless of engine used?

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  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    I can live with zones, as long as they are big enough.
    If you want to see an example on how Zones should not be made, play SotA.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Pantheon will be open world, but that isn't the same thing as seamless. There will be zones, but no instances, and that's of greater importance to me. Every person on a server should exist somewhere in the actual game space.

    The zones are also massive, so players will zone less often. They've said most zones will be bigger than even places like West Karana in EQ.


  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,657
    Kilsin said:
    Pantheon is a zone based game, just like EQ zones and VG chunks although it does look seamless and is almost impossible to find the zone line at first glance but this decision was made very early on and would be extremely time-consuming and resource intensive to change, so it is not something we are considering at this time.

    There are many benefits to having large immersive zones and being able to control the performance and detail in them more closely is one large benefit. Our loading screens are relatively quick and will have lore friendly images and text and by doing it this way we can avoid using instancing as much as possible, leaving huge open world dungeons and caves to be explored by anyone on the server. :)
    Crazy idea .. background loading when you get close to the edge of a zone ? Maybe easier said than done in Unity.
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    Was it a decision (zones I mean)  based on using Unity? Or just a design decision early on regardless of engine used?
    It was a design decision regardless of the game engine back when the game was first being discussed, zones were considered to be a more manageable option for a small team which only consisted of a handful of people back then.

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    kjempff said:
    Kilsin said:
    Pantheon is a zone based game, just like EQ zones and VG chunks although it does look seamless and is almost impossible to find the zone line at first glance but this decision was made very early on and would be extremely time-consuming and resource intensive to change, so it is not something we are considering at this time.

    There are many benefits to having large immersive zones and being able to control the performance and detail in them more closely is one large benefit. Our loading screens are relatively quick and will have lore friendly images and text and by doing it this way we can avoid using instancing as much as possible, leaving huge open world dungeons and caves to be explored by anyone on the server. :)
    Crazy idea .. background loading when you get close to the edge of a zone ? Maybe easier said than done in Unity.
    Unity is not limited in that area, or anything else for that matter. It supports ways of loading or streaming assets from adjacent areas in a 3d environment. They actually mention the possibility of doing away with zones in the FAQ.

    http://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q7


  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p
  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    Kunai_Vax said:
    The only game i've ever played where they made loading screens work is GW2. Cant really explain it, even though every zone has a loading screen it still feels like an open and massive world. 
    EQ2 did something similar at launch and it was horrible. 
    In EQ2s case the zones were too small and not always that greatly engineered. Just walking around in Freep or Q was a pain.

    Loading screens are fine as long as the zones feel huge and the loading break comes at a natural time. Just in the middle of a forest or town does not work.

    Also, it helps if you can see whats in the other zone, like mountains and such from bordering zones. You don't miss huge natural features like mt Kilimanjaro even from far away.

    Of course do we all prefer no loading screens to loading screen but if we can't get it for technical reasons we can at least get good zones with loading screens instead of annoying ones. With VRs budget I can certainly see why they made this decision, while many crowdfunded games have less cash money is still tight and should be focused on actual gameplay, not on eye candy.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    They could have trains without zones. Just make it so mobs leash on the borders of areas.


  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kilsin said:
    Was it a decision (zones I mean)  based on using Unity? Or just a design decision early on regardless of engine used?
    It was a design decision regardless of the game engine back when the game was first being discussed, zones were considered to be a more manageable option for a small team which only consisted of a handful of people back then.
    So, speaking of manageable zones.... @Kilsin - What is the plan for handling crowded zones?  Are you guys going to use a duplicate instance system for each zone if it gets to a certain population?  In other words, what happens when a zone reaches its cap?  Queues, instances, etc.
  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    Lokero said:
    Kilsin said:
    Was it a decision (zones I mean)  based on using Unity? Or just a design decision early on regardless of engine used?
    It was a design decision regardless of the game engine back when the game was first being discussed, zones were considered to be a more manageable option for a small team which only consisted of a handful of people back then.
    So, speaking of manageable zones.... @Kilsin - What is the plan for handling crowded zones?  Are you guys going to use a duplicate instance system for each zone if it gets to a certain population?  In other words, what happens when a zone reaches its cap?  Queues, instances, etc.
    That is something we will be interested in stressing/tweaking in our testing phases, we have a few options and it is something the team is keeping in mind as we develop the game but we want to avoid using instances as much as possible, it is very unlikely that we will use queues either but the team will be able to speak about this in more detail during testing. 

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • NoddenNodden Member CommonPosts: 2
    Kilsin said:
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.
    <3
  • tixylixtixylix Member UncommonPosts: 1,288
    If it is old eq style loading or half-life where it keeps you in game but just says loading, I can deal with that. What I hate is when you get sent to a loading screen and all the zones are walled off so it doesn't feel like a world like eq2. The way eq originally handled it was great, but when you enclose everything and pop up a screen it feels fake.

    As for dungeons, if they're handled like original wow where they take up real world space and you have to travel to them, great. What I hate is when you're warped to a location that doesn't exist in the world. Original wow had like the dead mines where it had an entrance and exit in different places and you could see the dungeon from other zones, it took up space and felt real despite it being instanced.

    what I hate is world design like swtor or eq2 or any modern sudo-mmo where they're just hub games.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    DMKano said:
    Kilsin said:
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.

    really? I guess griefing is back on the menu boys!

    Nothing like taking end game open world bosses and bringing them to noob areas for the lulz!

    Heck even EQ1 had leashing for some bosses to prevent major griefing - so I am shocked that no mobs in Pantheon leash currently.

    I used to grab like half the zone worth of mobs in EQ1 with my bard - and not even kill them - just run them in circles and lol at the chat "where are all the spawns" - good times

    Was especially fun in North Ro 

    This is probably the best news ever - as with the amount of trolling in games, no recent game has had the balls to let mobs not leash.

    I see epic things from no-leash alone ;) - I wonder what happens when you grab 200+ mobs and bring them all to one place - this still causes severe lag in EQ1 today heh


    Arm chair devs getting owned is funny. 




  • RamajamaRamajama Member UncommonPosts: 271
    Kilsin said:
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.
    Made it up and presented it like a fact. Lovely. 
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,339
    DMKano said:
    Kilsin said:
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.

    really? I guess griefing is back on the menu boys!

    Nothing like taking end game open world bosses and bringing them to noob areas for the lulz!

    Heck even EQ1 had leashing for some bosses to prevent major griefing - so I am shocked that no mobs in Pantheon leash currently.

    I used to grab like half the zone worth of mobs in EQ1 with my bard - and not even kill them - just run them in circles and lol at the chat "where are all the spawns" - good times

    Was especially fun in North Ro 

    This is probably the best news ever - as with the amount of trolling in games, no recent game has had the balls to let mobs not leash.

    I see epic things from no-leash alone ;) - I wonder what happens when you grab 200+ mobs and bring them all to one place - this still causes severe lag in EQ1 today heh
    Well one possible option might be to make sure you can't out run the mobs indefinitely, 

    Though it boggles my mind when someone takes pleasure spoiling other people's fun for no valid reason.

    Seriously, what happened to you as a child, dropped on your head too much?

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  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    DMKano said:

    really? I guess griefing is back on the menu boys!

    Nothing like taking end game open world bosses and bringing them to noob areas for the lulz!

    Heck even EQ1 had leashing for some bosses to prevent major griefing - so I am shocked that no mobs in Pantheon leash currently.

    I used to grab like half the zone worth of mobs in EQ1 with my bard - and not even kill them - just run them in circles and lol at the chat "where are all the spawns" - good times

    Good, in that case I just follow you and kill the mobs chasing you with little effort while you do all the work for me.
    That's called emergent game-play, something I miss in current MMOs.

  • KilsinKilsin Member RarePosts: 507
    DMKano said:
    Kilsin said:
    DMKano said:
    Mylan12 said:
    Zones are fine, without zones how can we have the EQ classic "Train to the Zone" . :p

    Mobs in Pantheon will leash just like in Vanguard. Zones are too big in Pantheon for mobs to chase you all the way to zone lines.

    So no Train to Zone in Pantheon
    Our mobs don't leash currently and I have not heard of any plans to start making them leash, so I am not sure where you got this information from.

    really? I guess griefing is back on the menu boys!

    Nothing like taking end game open world bosses and bringing them to noob areas for the lulz!

    Heck even EQ1 had leashing for some bosses to prevent major griefing - so I am shocked that no mobs in Pantheon leash currently.

    I used to grab like half the zone worth of mobs in EQ1 with my bard - and not even kill them - just run them in circles and lol at the chat "where are all the spawns" - good times

    Was especially fun in North Ro 

    This is probably the best news ever - as with the amount of trolling in games, no recent game has had the balls to let mobs not leash.

    I see epic things from no-leash alone ;) - I wonder what happens when you grab 200+ mobs and bring them all to one place - this still causes severe lag in EQ1 today heh
    I was speaking more specifically to trash/normal mobs.

    These are all things we have considered and there are many ways to stop that happening to named mobs/raid targets/important npcs etc. and we may implement something for certain mobs/areas if we see it becoming a problem but this, along with many other things, will be worked on in much greater detail once we get into testing.

    For now, though, you can see us have fun with no leashing in some of our streams ;)

    Community & Web Manager | Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Visit our Development Website. | Facebook | Twitter

  • blastermasterblastermaster Member UncommonPosts: 259
    Kilsin said:
    I was speaking more specifically to trash/normal mobs.

    These are all things we have considered and there are many ways to stop that happening to named mobs/raid targets/important npcs etc. and we may implement something for certain mobs/areas if we see it becoming a problem but this, along with many other things, will be worked on in much greater detail once we get into testing.

    For now, though, you can see us have fun with no leashing in some of our streams ;)
    That's nice!
    I would think that, if you implement different AI for different mobs (calling for help, trying to retreat, etc.), maybe this behavior could also be added into it.

    Ex. :  A predator that is used to fighting/hunting alone may not think about anything else than catching his prey, while a "social mob" that is living in pack, close to his living grounds, will probably let go as soon as his terrirory is not in danger anymore,etc. 

    And it could even be different based on the type of "role" the mob has.
    Ex.: Hunter/Explorer kind would pursue further, while "guards" would stay with the lord/building/terrirory they are tasked to defend, or the healer type would pursue as long as there is another mob pursuing with it (to heal it), and when it's not the case, they would fall back to their home,etc. 

    Think there is a lot of fun to be had with that..you could even push it further by having different hidden "AI attribute" impact how one would react. So maybe an "angry" guard would not think about it twice and would pursue to the end of the world, while a "coward" hunter would not go further than a few steps past his home boundaries. This is probably a little too much work though (not sure how easy it is to have a single mob type have random stats,etc.), but anyways.. just "thinking out loud" I guess!


  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599

    You know what I wish MMos did more?

    Remember Asheron's Call portaling?    The game was seamless open word, but you had to zone into dungeons. however, instead of a loading screen, you get this really cool portal effect (think of the show sliders) as you were zoning. Your character would phase out with a particle effect, then a tube portal scene as your computer loaded the dungeon, and materialize on the other side.

    Was  really immersive, felt like you were beamin in!  It was just a way to hide a loading screen, but it never took you out of the game. Very creative.


    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

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