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EQ class stereotypes, too much?

124

Comments

  • sirphobossirphobos Member UncommonPosts: 620
    edited January 2017
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Agreed. I believe as the game has become more and more popular, people are now trying to change it to fit their own preferences, rather than supporting the original vision of the game from 2014.

    If the game tries to satisfy everyone, it will end up satisfying no one.
    I think you're kind of missing the point there. The point a lot of people, including myself, are trying to make, is that just pulling every feature from EQ, updating the graphics, and calling it a day is a mistake. I played EQ probably longer than just about anyone here. I loved the game. The prospect of playing an MMO with a classic feel excites me very much.

    However, features shouldn't just be blindly pulled from EQ (or any other game for that matter). Any feature that gets added or not added to the game should be done so while asking the question of "does this make the game better?", not "does this make the game more like EQ".

    There were a lot of things in EQ that people hated even back in 1999, but we just tolerated them. Copying them just for the sake of nostalgia is a mistake.

    Was EQ good because of 24 hour camps? Was EQ good because of XP loss on death and corpse recoveries that could go into the early morning? Was EQ good because of 72 man raids and racing other guilds for content? Or was it good in spite of those things? Those are the questions that need to be asked.
  • HexipoxHexipox Member UncommonPosts: 241
    edited January 2017
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that. 

    Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
  • MMO_FanMMO_Fan Member UncommonPosts: 178
    Hexipox said:
    ... I'm  concerned that the classes will not diviate and you will feel you are playing same game on a different engine.
    Fine by me!
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    My perspective is simple. EQ was great, and a game just like EQ would be fun too. However, a game that improves upon EQ would be even more fun.

    The key things I don't want to see changed are player interdependence, a greater commitment of time, a more dangerous world with a steep death penalty, and traditional combat that is more focused on knowledge, preparation and teamwork, than personal coordination and dexterity.

    After that, put it through the "is this fun" test and go from there. I say that knowing some of the things above will not be fun to some players, but those are really the essentials that I believe made EQ a very different game than what is being offered today.


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,845
    I cannot argue with what Dullahan said but it worries me that far too many are "satisfied" with ho hum.

    EQ needed to be and SHOULD be improved and that is what i expect from this game.If you want to label it is a EQ clone that is fine by me but improve on it because EQ1 is not good enough by 2017 standards.Graphic improvements are not good enough,i would play FFXIV in a heartbeat if that was good enough.

    I have a ton of confidence in Brad and his visions but his system designers,not so much.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • WarlyxWarlyx Member RarePosts: 3,046
    i dont want to play the old Magi , nowadays would be kinda boring , i want a pet class that has some kind of synergy with the pet , and both destroy the enemies , i dont want pets to be "animated dots" like eq/eq2

    and is true that the old Eq did tons of good stuff , but we are in 2017 ,imagine camping to change spells , or resting for 15 min , or 2h to get your corpse back
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017
    From a class role and balance standpoint EQ "got it right" IMO so an emulation of that is not too surprising and I think will work well. Should there be some diversity in HOW the classes get things done? I think so but I trust VR knows what they are doing.

    As an example of change however, I'd like to see the Crusader as more of a tanky defensive Bard that can either provide direct tanking or use abilities that "echo" group effects to play a support role as well. Some twists like this could serve Pantheon well.
  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,065
    EQ and EQ2 were both fun in their own ways.  A game that follows the paths of these games most definitely has my attention.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Warlyx said:
    i dont want to play the old Magi , nowadays would be kinda boring , i want a pet class that has some kind of synergy with the pet , and both destroy the enemies , i dont want pets to be "animated dots" like eq/eq2

    and is true that the old Eq did tons of good stuff , but we are in 2017 ,imagine camping to change spells , or resting for 15 min , or 2h to get your corpse back
    Even more importantly, I wouldn't want to see the melee classes play like the ones from EQ.  I'm referring to those pure melee types, not the spell-caster hybrids.

    Warrior and rogue in EQ were arguably the most boring classes of all time.  This is an area where WoW actually did a great job evolving.  They managed to make those classes fun and engaging.

    EQ Monk was "ok"... not great, but bearable.

    I don't really see this as an issue, though.  It would be nearly impossible to make melee classes that are that boring in today's design environment, thankfully.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Member EpicPosts: 7,668
    Hexipox said:
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that. 

    Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
    Yes alot of us do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,182
    Hexipox said:
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that. 

    Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
    Yes alot of us do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
    Offends? lmao, no.... it just provides a good laugh due to how clueless the resulting posts are...

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,707
    Class design from EQ was good, Vanguard's was better to me.

    image
  • UproarUproar Member UncommonPosts: 521
    EQ Classes are absolutely awesome.  Touch them at your peril.

    image

  • fs23otmfs23otm Member UncommonPosts: 503
    EQ classes and balance were the best ever done... nothing has come close
  • xyzercrimexyzercrime Member RarePosts: 878
    Hexipox said:
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Read what the thread is actually about, the first post made, instead of reading a headline and reply to you assumption of that. 

    Changed the the headline now since too many obviously just read and reply to that....
    Yes I do just go by the thread title and dont read the initial posts...Sorry if that offends
    Fixed that for you.



    When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's.  Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO.  Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard.  Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.

    If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with.  You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,331
    Buccaneer said:
    To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's.  Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO.  Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard.  Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.

    If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with.  You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
    Vanguard classes weren't bad. One thing I didn't like though was the ability to have all of your attacks and spells on your hot bar at the same time. 

    Limiting the amount of spells available at a time is something I think EQ had right. That, and making auto attack meaningful. 

    I think a good balance between the two class systems is the best direction to go in.
    --------------------------------------------
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Vanguard's classes and Vanguard's combat were two different things. I loved the classes. Were they to limit the number of active abilities and have EQ's resources management and downtime, that would be the best of both worlds for me.


  • BuccaneerBuccaneer Member UncommonPosts: 654
    Buccaneer said:
    To be honest I would prefer the devs to follow Vanguard's example of class development compared to EQ's.  Vanguard outside of EQ's Enchanter have my favourite classes from a MMO.  Vanguard had so many great classes, for example Blood Mage and Disciple shook up the ways to heal. Making your own songs with the Bard.  Tanking with the Dread Knight made you feel you could take on the whole zone and of course the Necro with it's faithful abomination actually allowing the player to raise the dead from vanquished enemies and lastly VG was the first tab target MMO I've came across that allowed you to move while casting spells.

    If I was the Pantheon dev team I would concentrate on making the classes follow the VG template, even if that means the game launches with fewer classes to begin with.  You can always add classes after release and it will give the player base something to look forward too and also increase retention and replayability.
    Vanguard classes weren't bad. One thing I didn't like though was the ability to have all of your attacks and spells on your hot bar at the same time. 

    Limiting the amount of spells available at a time is something I think EQ had right. That, and making auto attack meaningful. 

    I think a good balance between the two class systems is the best direction to go in.

    I agree regarding ability bloat (EQ2 looking at you).  You could be right, that a happy medium between the two systems may be the best.

    One thing I liked about EQ was it tried to make you think what spells are going to be needed for a certain situation.  It would be nice if Pantheon follows this route that it would allow the player to set up pre-made hot bars which you could switch (out of combat) for certain situations, for example buffing, type of mob etc.
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,131
    As I've said before, EQ is one of the oldest ongoing MMO's to date. With 20+ expansions, I really don't see why Brad wouldn't want to achieve that same legacy. Sure, he attempted to deviate with Vanguard and believe it or not, people either loved that game or hated it. I for one didn't care for Vanguard, but there were SOME elements that were ok.

    In all honesty, a lot of people were waiting for FunCom to update the graphics for Anarchy Online, myself included. So it seems, updated graphics are really all it takes to keep something good alive. Brad loves EQ and so do I. The question is, why am I not playing EQ than? Because EQ now is nothing like EQ was back in the day.

    Pantheon should be EQ 2.0 because EQ2, while still a good game ended up being too much like WoW and a lot less like EQ. This is a huge problem in the MMO market. Everyone tries to be like WoW instead of creating their own success story.

    We have WAY too many WoW clones and right now, Brad has made it clear, that old school isn't just about nostalgia. It's about making a damn good MMO that isn't warped by the FPS / MOBA, instant gratification, I participated give me a trophy, twitchy ADHD combat and lag inducing graphics that everyone seems to think makes up a good MMO.

    I've stopped playing new MMO's and I now play emulated games like EQ, SWG and DAoC. Those games make sense to me, have a lot more purpose and are far more engaging. If what Pantheon has shown so far doesn't interest you, that's fine. Most likely what interests you is already out there and like me, you are bored stiff with it. So let's not regurgitate another prospect MMO into something we don't need.

  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 281
    I hope the game is more like the early EQ.  I think some contested raid mobs like the early dragons (solb, ect) in EQ would be fine. I guess I left EQ long before the time of the "72 man raids". We did the early dragons with 18 people and the early raids like Hate, Plane of Air, ect  with usually 6 groups or 36 people. I really hope any raid in Pantheon is closer to the 18 person size. I also hope they give a EQ style bard back, I really miss my old one.
  • svannsvann Member RarePosts: 2,218
    Early EQ was WAY too much standing autoattacking if you werent a caster.  That needed to change and it did.
  • Scott23Scott23 Member UncommonPosts: 293
    Mylan12 said:
    I hope the game is more like the early EQ.  I think some contested raid mobs like the early dragons (solb, ect) in EQ would be fine. I guess I left EQ long before the time of the "72 man raids". We did the early dragons with 18 people and the early raids like Hate, Plane of Air, ect  with usually 6 groups or 36 people. I really hope any raid in Pantheon is closer to the 18 person size. I also hope they give a EQ style bard back, I really miss my old one.
    EQ1 bard was my favorite class of any MMO I have played.  Of course it helped that my wife and I played together (she was a druid) so she could help me chat - twisting songs constantly didn't leave me much time :)

    A bard and druid duo was a nasty combo - we could kill anything outside that didn't summon.  When we were in a full group she could main heal with the help of mana song.  There is a good dose of rose-colored glasses, but they were good times...
  • HigherhoHigherho Member UncommonPosts: 10
    Hexipox said:
    Higherho said:
    I want the fear of death to become a reality in games again!! Corpse run, loot on corpse for only 1 day, and you lose all the exp you gained during that play session!!!! Lets make it happen!!!
    Yeah let's not, we're some that grew older, got less time and have a career and family...
    I have all those as well. No pain no gain!!! Or old UO fear  would do the trick. should we build safe zones for people? 
  • BruceYeeBruceYee Member EpicPosts: 1,948
    Isn't EQ in a different skin what this has been about from the get go?...I thought people were tired of the WoW clones and wanted a game that was more old school?...Make up your minds.
    Agreed. I believe as the game has become more and more popular, people are now trying to change it to fit their own preferences, rather than supporting the original vision of the game from 2014.

    If the game tries to satisfy everyone, it will end up satisfying no one.
    Well how to put this. Hrrmmm. This is the result you get when you keep trying to generate hype and buzz for a game that's still in development. Especially so with one with retro features. The more you guys keep making discussion posts to keep the game on the front page the more not really interested rubbernecking busybodies are going to keep turning up to kibitz.
    No need to keep trying to make threads b/c everyone knows Pantheon, CU & Crowfall 2017-18

    btw I like your sig.
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