Slapshot1188 said: IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200
Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.
And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense. Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.
Back to the topic at hand: Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.
I thought they had said that the thread was answered elsewhere, no? I believe they addressed the concerns over tiers elsewhere. I don't think it was in the thread, but there were multiple references to other info. I didn't actually read the official response though.
Not as far as I know. This thread WAS a response to their official thread. As far as I can tell they haven't mentioned this since Dec. If I missed it I'd be happy for someone to link it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Slapshot1188 said: IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200
Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.
And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense. Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.
Back to the topic at hand: Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.
I thought they had said that the thread was answered elsewhere, no? I believe they addressed the concerns over tiers elsewhere. I don't think it was in the thread, but there were multiple references to other info. I didn't actually read the official response though.
Not as far as I know. This thread WAS a response to their official thread. As far as I can tell they haven't mentioned this since Dec. If I missed it I'd be happy for someone to link it.
Ahhhh, maybe that was my misunderstanding. I just read the post regarding concerns here and felt like it adequately addressed the concerns from the forum post you made. This post was from December 29th. I'm not sure if it was updated since to address the concerns from the forum post you mention, but it does address the matter of package value directly. The reason I felt this was a direct response was because they did directly address the matter of subjective value of some people (regarding a manor versus county, etc). It seems like they took a fairly logical approach to the packages and they say that they devalued all tiers across the board to ensure that the value gained for early backers was maintained. So we're, really, talking about subjective value. However, maybe they let people jump packages, if they want? Maybe at the cost of losing their early value? So they'd be buying into a devalued tier. That seems fair enough to me.
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
WHY.WHY you know, you may just be right.
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
WHY.WHY you know, you may just be right.
Speaking of which, are the Goonsquad and BOB behaving ?
" Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who Would Threaten It " MAGA
Slapshot1188 said: IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200
Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.
And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense. Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.
Back to the topic at hand: Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.
I thought they had said that the thread was answered elsewhere, no? I believe they addressed the concerns over tiers elsewhere. I don't think it was in the thread, but there were multiple references to other info. I didn't actually read the official response though.
Not as far as I know. This thread WAS a response to their official thread. As far as I can tell they haven't mentioned this since Dec. If I missed it I'd be happy for someone to link it.
Ahhhh, maybe that was my misunderstanding. I just read the post regarding concerns here and felt like it adequately addressed the concerns from the forum post you made. This post was from December 29th. I'm not sure if it was updated since to address the concerns from the forum post you mention, but it does address the matter of package value directly. The reason I felt this was a direct response was because they did directly address the matter of subjective value of some people (regarding a manor versus county, etc). It seems like they took a fairly logical approach to the packages and they say that they devalued all tiers across the board to ensure that the value gained for early backers was maintained. So we're, really, talking about subjective value. However, maybe they let people jump packages, if they want? Maybe at the cost of losing their early value? So they'd be buying into a devalued tier. That seems fair enough to me.
Just saying that when your $1,000 backers start posting about rebelling it's not usually good.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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Slapshot1188 said: IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200
Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.
And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense. Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.
Back to the topic at hand: Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.
I thought they had said that the thread was answered elsewhere, no? I believe they addressed the concerns over tiers elsewhere. I don't think it was in the thread, but there were multiple references to other info. I didn't actually read the official response though.
Not as far as I know. This thread WAS a response to their official thread. As far as I can tell they haven't mentioned this since Dec. If I missed it I'd be happy for someone to link it.
Ahhhh, maybe that was my misunderstanding. I just read the post regarding concerns here and felt like it adequately addressed the concerns from the forum post you made. This post was from December 29th. I'm not sure if it was updated since to address the concerns from the forum post you mention, but it does address the matter of package value directly. The reason I felt this was a direct response was because they did directly address the matter of subjective value of some people (regarding a manor versus county, etc). It seems like they took a fairly logical approach to the packages and they say that they devalued all tiers across the board to ensure that the value gained for early backers was maintained. So we're, really, talking about subjective value. However, maybe they let people jump packages, if they want? Maybe at the cost of losing their early value? So they'd be buying into a devalued tier. That seems fair enough to me.
Just saying that when your $1,000 backers start posting about rebelling it's not usually good.
Yeah, that's why I wonder if maybe the original post was updated. Was that post from the 29th the one you were talking about?
Also, I don't know how many backers it was. It was really just one, right? I think that there were a couple others who expressed some concern, but it wasn't as rampant as you're making it out to be. At any rate, I think that the post itself addresses the concerns of tier valuation. However, I'm assuming there will always be someone who feels slighted, so why not allow them to relinquish their current tier and move to the other. Again, you'd lose some value, but you obviously see greater value in something else. Also, I'm assuming that the design aspect offered in the Brewmaster tier would be something thought to be highly valued, so it's very likely that another tier that doesn't offer you the ability to be part of the design process could actually contain more "stuff" or "trinkets". It would depend on the value assigned to the ability to offer your design input for in-game items.
" . . . we put in several hours of discussion and math to make sure we did this fairly."
" . . . there's still at least a year until launch."
"[$500 backers] have control (and are responsible for) all of the land of their County. But even more importantly, being a [$500 backer] makes you a pivotal character in the story."
I read through that post and tried to pull out the most relevant quotes. Looks like lots of company time and effort going into change-wrangling these backer tiers and regrading pledge items instead of actual game development. Also everyone take note that they are directly stating that pledging $500 or more will make your character 'pivotal' in the game world.
I will agree with you, though, that their success does defy logic.
Their success comes out of the frustration of players at the MMO industry, at companies with the money and manpower yet without ambition. The big companies have their money-making formulas, they have no motivation to put money into something different that would imply risky investments.
CoE is exactly on this box, people WANT to play this game, they want to play something with this design, it's this small development teams that are taking in ALL the risks.
It doesn't defy logic at all. If the big companies on the room would have been the ones developing on this type of ambitious MMO's and designs, this smaller teams would never get as much support and attention.
If that were the case then this game< Chronicles of Elyria would be doing the same exact thing. Its a 'groundbreaking' fantasy MMO that has things presented that everyone has wanted or wants but never had in a game (all inclusive). SC is basically EVE and Elite Dangerous (granted when they first pitched it ED wasnt released yet) and a bunch of other promises.
So why would that project make money, and keep making money despite all thje shit that has gone down with them over the past few years while CoE and other games with similar baggage (cough cough cough Pantheon and Brad McQuaid) struggle to raise 6 figures. Pantheon didnt even get fully funded through KS.
Despite what you guys claim as conspiracy and derek smart and whatever there are valid and easily seen issues with SC.Yet those dont deter people one iota. Pantheon simply has Brad Mcquaid whom in a vacuum is probably on the same level as Roberts. McQuaid just had is major issue (outside the gaming spectrum) publicized. Brad spends player funds on coke and women, Roberts spends it on houses, cars, murals, coffee makers, doors, acting lessons, movie making studio, and the list goes on.
There are PLENTY of comparisons and thats not even touching Camelot which by comparison is being made by a bunch of saints with vastly more delivered products than Roberts could ever dream of coming up with. Yet theyre broke too.
There is absolutely no sane or logical reason why CiG can report the money they have coming in day in and day out. It just doesnt make sense, and selling ships isnt a reason either because people eventually have all the ships they can handle and this project just doesnt have the interest from what I can see to maintain those figures.
You think there are REALLY THAT many people buying ships? Enough to account for 125 million? Especially when most of the ships havent even been coded yet and are still just jpegs.
I dont know I dont want ot completely derail this into another SC issue, but the fact that these guys are facing this 'backlash' over a thousand dollar 'donation' just shows what happens in reality when people give their money to these guys. SO again it defies logic that all the people who have supposedly sent CiG ten or 100 times that amount are so patient and understanding with him and that project that is 4 years longer than CoE and lot more controversy and delays.
I'm seeing complaints from original backers in SC. People see the plan for a game and actually think the game will be just like the plan. They forget the Devs hate turning people away and try to please everyone during the planning stage but sooner or later they have to make the game and cut out stuff and change stuff because it sounds good on paper but may not work as well in real life. Especially when players find ways of playing the game that were unintended by the Devs.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
rodarin said: I dont know I dont want ot completely derail this into another SC issue,
Oi? It is you that have been constantly derailing the discussion to be about SC and CIG. My post is actually leaning towards the topic of this thread, CoE. It does applies to other games as SC, Crowfall and so forfh because all of them gained popularity after proposing one ambitious game design that there IS demand for.
Again I repeat if it was the big publishers and companies pushing this type of ambitious MMO's forward, this type of smaller teams attempting to do so would not get this much attention and support.
People are more willing to throw money at the possibility of a different and unique MMO they would like to play, than they would be willing to buy yet again more of the same. Some portrait this as the "MMO industry is dead."
I will agree with you, though, that their success does defy logic.
Their success comes out of the frustration of players at the MMO industry, at companies with the money and manpower yet without ambition. The big companies have their money-making formulas, they have no motivation to put money into something different that would imply risky investments.
CoE is exactly on this box, people WANT to play this game, they want to play something with this design, it's this small development teams that are taking in ALL the risks.
It doesn't defy logic at all. If the big companies on the room would have been the ones developing on this type of ambitious MMO's and designs, this smaller teams would never get as much support and attention.
If that were the case then this game< Chronicles of Elyria would be doing the same exact thing. Its a 'groundbreaking' fantasy MMO that has things presented that everyone has wanted or wants but never had in a game (all inclusive). SC is basically EVE and Elite Dangerous (granted when they first pitched it ED wasnt released yet) and a bunch of other promises.
So why would that project make money, and keep making money despite all thje shit that has gone down with them over the past few years while CoE and other games with similar baggage (cough cough cough Pantheon and Brad McQuaid) struggle to raise 6 figures. Pantheon didnt even get fully funded through KS.
Despite what you guys claim as conspiracy and derek smart and whatever there are valid and easily seen issues with SC.Yet those dont deter people one iota. Pantheon simply has Brad Mcquaid whom in a vacuum is probably on the same level as Roberts. McQuaid just had is major issue (outside the gaming spectrum) publicized. Brad spends player funds on coke and women, Roberts spends it on houses, cars, murals, coffee makers, doors, acting lessons, movie making studio, and the list goes on.
There are PLENTY of comparisons and thats not even touching Camelot which by comparison is being made by a bunch of saints with vastly more delivered products than Roberts could ever dream of coming up with. Yet theyre broke too.
There is absolutely no sane or logical reason why CiG can report the money they have coming in day in and day out. It just doesnt make sense, and selling ships isnt a reason either because people eventually have all the ships they can handle and this project just doesnt have the interest from what I can see to maintain those figures.
You think there are REALLY THAT many people buying ships? Enough to account for 125 million? Especially when most of the ships havent even been coded yet and are still just jpegs.
I dont know I dont want ot completely derail this into another SC issue, but the fact that these guys are facing this 'backlash' over a thousand dollar 'donation' just shows what happens in reality when people give their money to these guys. SO again it defies logic that all the people who have supposedly sent CiG ten or 100 times that amount are so patient and understanding with him and that project that is 4 years longer than CoE and lot more controversy and delays.
Ok, so first off, I can understand how an explanation eludes you if you believe that SC is no more than a new EVE. It's like saying WoW and Rift are identical. If you can't see the difference between the two then there is a significant gap in your understanding of the projects as a whole, and I think you need to bridge that gap before you can really understand ANYTHING else.
Secondly, you accuse Roberts of spending company money on on things that are not verified. So thanks for killing your own credibility.
Third, you say that Mark Jacobs is a saint with "....vastly more delivered products..." Both have delivered 20 some-odd titles. Again, kills your credibility. Of those titles, Mark Jacobs DOES have more experience in developing online titles. Some of these exceptional titles, which are household names, like Aliens Online, Godzilla Online, Silent Death Online, and Imperator Online. So the general idea was to shotgun popular ideas and make them "Online"? Fuck me!! What's worse is that he was the CEO and Lead Designer, meaning he actually thought these were good ideas. Again, I'm not knocking Mark Jacbos, but to suggest that he is some sort of saintly being who deserves to be put on a pedestal is fucking hilarious. He is responsible for some good games, but he's also made his fair share of shitty titles. Again, please do like 5 minutes of research before you post shit.
Finally, here's where your WHOLE reality breaks down. You question the funding, but both Derek Smart and Chris Roberts have said separately that the annual cost of operations is in the neighborhood of $30 million. So this is both extremes converging on a single number. So even if this was a +/- 10% number, the reality is that if they aren't bringing in $30 million annually then they'll be operating at a loss. So you can suspend your disbelief because they're either getting that money on an annual basis, or they're losing money hand over fist.
With regards to the CoE issue, they AREN'T facing backlash. They have like one person on a forum who's kicking up a fuss. There are officially more people here, on this forum, trying to convert this into a SC topic than there are up in arms about the changes to the tiers in CoE.
You'd be surprised. Many people pay over that for a game, just not a game that is still in alpha.
It's clear that the people who backed this game, particularly those who invested so much are dreamers. I'm a practical person myself; I need to be sure that I will be provided the content that I paid for, this is why I'll never buy another lock box again. Investing in this game is much like buying a lock box, they are gambling on something that may end up being only a shadow of what was promised (if it's ever completed at all).
"I have found a desire within myself that no experience in this world can satisfy; the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world." ~ C. S. Lewis
Mark Jacobs actually RELEASING ANY game is better than Chris Roberts has ever done.
There is a reason why a guy doesnt work in an industry for 15 years and when he comes back its on his own with his hand out.
But debating you guys is like talking to the loons Bill O Rielly had on his show last night.
Well to each his own, but Privateer happens to be one of my all-time favorite games. I do enjoy how you backpedaled out of that one. It really only validates my entire post, so thanks.
Gee, I wonder (not really) if it finally occurred to the people running this thing that they had no where near enough money to fulfill the promises they made about this game, and are willing to do anything to generate more "donations"?
It was clear from the very fist released design documents that the people in charge massively under estimated the time and capital to make the game they wanted to.
As to this, so what if they pissed off the people that already gave them money, they care more about the people they need to give them more money going forward....
Gee, I wonder (not really) if it finally occurred to the people running this thing that they had no where near enough money to fulfill the promises they made about this game, and are willing to do anything to generate more "donations"?
It was clear from the very fist released design documents that the people in charge massively under estimated the time and capital to make the game they wanted to.
As to this, so what if they pissed off the people that already gave them money, they care more about the people they need to give them more money going forward....
Not really a mystery.
Maybe. I still lean towards it just being ineptitude rather than malice.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Gee, I wonder (not really) if it finally occurred to the people running this thing that they had no where near enough money to fulfill the promises they made about this game, and are willing to do anything to generate more "donations"?
It was clear from the very fist released design documents that the people in charge massively under estimated the time and capital to make the game they wanted to.
As to this, so what if they pissed off the people that already gave them money, they care more about the people they need to give them more money going forward....
Not really a mystery.
Maybe. I still lean towards it just being ineptitude rather than malice.
In the end, it does not make much difference which it is, the game will still not get done past an alpha quality demo on $1.x mil or whatever the supposed total is....
Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
WHY.WHY you know, you may just be right.
Speaking of which, are the Goonsquad and BOB behaving ?
BOB is long gone and Goons no lo longer a factor since they got stomped in last year's Moneybadger war.
I'd say EVE null largely belongs to the Russians and PL.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
Whyyyyyy!!!???
(I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)
SIGH, I fell for the Hype.
You know its because you hate EVE/CCP so much you'll pay almost anything to support a space game that will destroy it/ them
WHY.WHY you know, you may just be right.
Speaking of which, are the Goonsquad and BOB behaving ?
BOB is long gone and Goons no lo longer a factor since they got stomped in last year's Moneybadger war.
I'd say EVE null largely belongs to the Russians and PL.
I have a wargamer friend who was hardcore eve player who suddenly quit when bob died. He never admitted belonging to bob but is seems suspicious. Plus, he was always offering billions of free ISK if I went back to play.
Didn't know the goons were gone. Blight on gaming I say.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
The Moderator closed the linked thread. One of the reasons was that it was created in a form the public could see and not the super secret Early Access forum...
Yeah this is gonna end well...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Quoted from the latest dev journal: "Allowing our fans to doubt their decision to back us, question their
value, or feel cheated is not something that was our intention and is
entirely unacceptable to me. It is a simple and easy decision then to
retroactively add housing to the Kickstarter pledge packages.
Couldn't agree more. As I mentioned previously, I would think it fair to allow them to re-allocate their "funds" to a different package if that's what they wanted, but would mean giving up the items they felt were valuable in their current package. So this is a pretty generous thing to do, really.
On a side note, it's not really doing anything to help the whole culture of entitlement..... just sayin'
Comments
As far as I can tell they haven't mentioned this since Dec. If I missed it I'd be happy for someone to link it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ahhhh, maybe that was my misunderstanding. I just read the post regarding concerns here and felt like it adequately addressed the concerns from the forum post you made. This post was from December 29th. I'm not sure if it was updated since to address the concerns from the forum post you mention, but it does address the matter of package value directly. The reason I felt this was a direct response was because they did directly address the matter of subjective value of some people (regarding a manor versus county, etc). It seems like they took a fairly logical approach to the packages and they say that they devalued all tiers across the board to ensure that the value gained for early backers was maintained. So we're, really, talking about subjective value. However, maybe they let people jump packages, if they want? Maybe at the cost of losing their early value? So they'd be buying into a devalued tier. That seems fair enough to me.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
WHY.WHY you know, you may just be right.
MAGA
Speaking of which, are the Goonsquad and BOB behaving ?
MAGA
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yeah, that's why I wonder if maybe the original post was updated. Was that post from the 29th the one you were talking about?
Also, I don't know how many backers it was. It was really just one, right? I think that there were a couple others who expressed some concern, but it wasn't as rampant as you're making it out to be. At any rate, I think that the post itself addresses the concerns of tier valuation. However, I'm assuming there will always be someone who feels slighted, so why not allow them to relinquish their current tier and move to the other. Again, you'd lose some value, but you obviously see greater value in something else. Also, I'm assuming that the design aspect offered in the Brewmaster tier would be something thought to be highly valued, so it's very likely that another tier that doesn't offer you the ability to be part of the design process could actually contain more "stuff" or "trinkets". It would depend on the value assigned to the ability to offer your design input for in-game items.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
" . . . we put in several hours of discussion and math to make sure we did this fairly."
" . . . there's still at least a year until launch."
"[$500 backers] have control (and are responsible for) all of the land of their County. But even more importantly, being a [$500 backer] makes you a pivotal character in the story."
I read through that post and tried to pull out the most relevant quotes. Looks like lots of company time and effort going into change-wrangling these backer tiers and regrading pledge items instead of actual game development. Also everyone take note that they are directly stating that pledging $500 or more will make your character 'pivotal' in the game world.
So why would that project make money, and keep making money despite all thje shit that has gone down with them over the past few years while CoE and other games with similar baggage (cough cough cough Pantheon and Brad McQuaid) struggle to raise 6 figures. Pantheon didnt even get fully funded through KS.
Despite what you guys claim as conspiracy and derek smart and whatever there are valid and easily seen issues with SC.Yet those dont deter people one iota. Pantheon simply has Brad Mcquaid whom in a vacuum is probably on the same level as Roberts. McQuaid just had is major issue (outside the gaming spectrum) publicized. Brad spends player funds on coke and women, Roberts spends it on houses, cars, murals, coffee makers, doors, acting lessons, movie making studio, and the list goes on.
There are PLENTY of comparisons and thats not even touching Camelot which by comparison is being made by a bunch of saints with vastly more delivered products than Roberts could ever dream of coming up with. Yet theyre broke too.
There is absolutely no sane or logical reason why CiG can report the money they have coming in day in and day out. It just doesnt make sense, and selling ships isnt a reason either because people eventually have all the ships they can handle and this project just doesnt have the interest from what I can see to maintain those figures.
You think there are REALLY THAT many people buying ships? Enough to account for 125 million? Especially when most of the ships havent even been coded yet and are still just jpegs.
I dont know I dont want ot completely derail this into another SC issue, but the fact that these guys are facing this 'backlash' over a thousand dollar 'donation' just shows what happens in reality when people give their money to these guys. SO again it defies logic that all the people who have supposedly sent CiG ten or 100 times that amount are so patient and understanding with him and that project that is 4 years longer than CoE and lot more controversy and delays.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Again I repeat if it was the big publishers and companies pushing this type of ambitious MMO's forward, this type of smaller teams attempting to do so would not get this much attention and support.
People are more willing to throw money at the possibility of a different and unique MMO they would like to play, than they would be willing to buy yet again more of the same. Some portrait this as the "MMO industry is dead."
Ok, so first off, I can understand how an explanation eludes you if you believe that SC is no more than a new EVE. It's like saying WoW and Rift are identical. If you can't see the difference between the two then there is a significant gap in your understanding of the projects as a whole, and I think you need to bridge that gap before you can really understand ANYTHING else.
Secondly, you accuse Roberts of spending company money on on things that are not verified. So thanks for killing your own credibility.
Third, you say that Mark Jacobs is a saint with "....vastly more delivered products..." Both have delivered 20 some-odd titles. Again, kills your credibility. Of those titles, Mark Jacobs DOES have more experience in developing online titles. Some of these exceptional titles, which are household names, like Aliens Online, Godzilla Online, Silent Death Online, and Imperator Online. So the general idea was to shotgun popular ideas and make them "Online"? Fuck me!! What's worse is that he was the CEO and Lead Designer, meaning he actually thought these were good ideas. Again, I'm not knocking Mark Jacbos, but to suggest that he is some sort of saintly being who deserves to be put on a pedestal is fucking hilarious. He is responsible for some good games, but he's also made his fair share of shitty titles. Again, please do like 5 minutes of research before you post shit.
Finally, here's where your WHOLE reality breaks down. You question the funding, but both Derek Smart and Chris Roberts have said separately that the annual cost of operations is in the neighborhood of $30 million. So this is both extremes converging on a single number. So even if this was a +/- 10% number, the reality is that if they aren't bringing in $30 million annually then they'll be operating at a loss. So you can suspend your disbelief because they're either getting that money on an annual basis, or they're losing money hand over fist.
With regards to the CoE issue, they AREN'T facing backlash. They have like one person on a forum who's kicking up a fuss. There are officially more people here, on this forum, trying to convert this into a SC topic than there are up in arms about the changes to the tiers in CoE.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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There is a reason why a guy doesnt work in an industry for 15 years and when he comes back its on his own with his hand out.
But debating you guys is like talking to the loons Bill O Rielly had on his show last night.
Well to each his own, but Privateer happens to be one of my all-time favorite games. I do enjoy how you backpedaled out of that one. It really only validates my entire post, so thanks.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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It was clear from the very fist released design documents that the people in charge massively under estimated the time and capital to make the game they wanted to.
As to this, so what if they pissed off the people that already gave them money, they care more about the people they need to give them more money going forward....
Not really a mystery.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I'd say EVE null largely belongs to the Russians and PL.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I have a wargamer friend who was hardcore eve player who suddenly quit when bob died. He never admitted belonging to bob but is seems suspicious. Plus, he was always offering billions of free ISK if I went back to play.
Didn't know the goons were gone. Blight on gaming I say.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Yeah this is gonna end well...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Quoted from the latest dev journal:
"Allowing our fans to doubt their decision to back us, question their value, or feel cheated is not something that was our intention and is entirely unacceptable to me. It is a simple and easy decision then to retroactively add housing to the Kickstarter pledge packages.
Source:
http://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/16033/the-adventure-of-a-lifetime
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Couldn't agree more. As I mentioned previously, I would think it fair to allow them to re-allocate their "funds" to a different package if that's what they wanted, but would mean giving up the items they felt were valuable in their current package. So this is a pretty generous thing to do, really.
On a side note, it's not really doing anything to help the whole culture of entitlement..... just sayin'
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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In short:
"The fully-furnished Villa will be added to the following Kickstarter pledge packages:
These Kickstarter pledge packages will receive an upgrade to a fully-furnished Manor instead:
- Artisan
- Brew Master
- Weapon Master
- Celebrity
- Artificer
- Duke/Duchess
- Chimera
- King/Queen
"And you guys can read the whole update here if you are curious:
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/16033/The-Adventure-of-a-Lifetime