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  • GitmixGitmix Member UncommonPosts: 603
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    Without a LFG tool in the game, it will force players to be more sociable
    How exactly do you force them to play the game and "socialize" instead of playing some other game...?
    You don't. Antisocial gamers who enjoy soloing everything shouldn't be playing MMOs in the first place, single player RPGs are made specifically for them why on earth do they come in MMOs and whine about the games not being soloable? It's dumb and selfish beyond belief.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    I don't mind there being antisocial people in the game, as long as the game doesn't reward them for it. A game should be comprised of all types of people, just like real life. Also like real life, many things should be less efficient, if not impossible, to do alone.

    The issue is some people do not see the value in player interaction. They are fine with people just populating their group like NPCs to facilitate their progress. Whether people realize it or not, there is value in having to interact with people, even in the smallest matters.



  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,259
    edited January 2017
    Scambug said:
    why on earth do they come in MMOs and whine about the games not being soloable?
    Because your premise "gamers who enjoy soloing everything shouldn't be playing MMOs" is false. Such line of thinking is "dumb and selfish beyond belief"....
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Scambug said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    Without a LFG tool in the game, it will force players to be more sociable
    How exactly do you force them to play the game and "socialize" instead of playing some other game...?
    You don't. Antisocial gamers who enjoy soloing everything shouldn't be playing MMOs in the first place, single player RPGs are made specifically for them why on earth do they come in MMOs and whine about the games not being soloable? It's dumb and selfish beyond belief.

    If I were a sologamer or someone who just prefere my own company while inside MMORPGS, if I stumbled across someone saying "Be social or gtfo" My first thought wouldnt be "Oh what a nice guy, I think I will send valentine cards to this fellow and ask him to be best friends forever"

     Its really really hard to turn social on demand, just like a laugh or a smile is hard to do on demand.
     
    I understand you refere to the sologamers that complain about MMORPGS not being solofriendly though, specifically.

     I just think its much easier to invite people to be social, if you start out with a traditional way of greeting.
     Middlefingers tend to work so poorly when trying to make people collaborative.
     
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,760
    Scambug said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    Without a LFG tool in the game, it will force players to be more sociable
    How exactly do you force them to play the game and "socialize" instead of playing some other game...?
    You don't. Antisocial gamers who enjoy soloing everything shouldn't be playing MMOs in the first place, single player RPGs are made specifically for them why on earth do they come in MMOs and whine about the games not being soloable? It's dumb and selfish beyond belief.
    That's a bit judgemental but "ok".

    Here's another scenario:

    Some people like a living world. They might not be "shootin' the shit" with everybody and their mother but they enjoy a world that is dynamic with conversations and things happening around them because of what players are doing.

    There are people out there who just enjoy listening. Heck one of my former girlfriends was like that. She loved being with people but rarely said anything unless she had something of substance to share.

    There are different types of people out there who enjoy things and interpret things and react to things "differently" than other people. To say that they don't belong because they don't fit your definition of how things should be seems a bit, um, "selfish".
  • TheJodaTheJoda Member UncommonPosts: 605
    Global chat works, just it is not the best game for those that want to get in, play, and get out........like EQ was compared to WoW

    ....Being Banned from MMORPG's forums since 2010, for Trolling the Trolls!!!

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited January 2017
    TheJoda said:
    Global chat works, just it is not the best game for those that want to get in, play, and get out........like EQ was compared to WoW
    Anyone remember how chat used to work in original EQ1.
    Anyone here claim it was easy to read in a populated zone?  
    The text box certainly scrolled down mighty fast sometimes ......
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    edited January 2017
    Scambug said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    Without a LFG tool in the game, it will force players to be more sociable
    How exactly do you force them to play the game and "socialize" instead of playing some other game...?
    You don't. Antisocial gamers who enjoy soloing everything shouldn't be playing MMOs in the first place, single player RPGs are made specifically for them why on earth do they come in MMOs and whine about the games not being soloable? It's dumb and selfish beyond belief.
    I don't recall anyone officially designating you as the authority over who should be playing MMOs or not in the first place.

    Nor do I ever recall EQ or Ultima Online developers or marketeers saying the game was intended to force people to socialize.

    Even the real world doesn't force people to socialize 90% of the time, so why should an MMORPG, which many believe is supposed to represent an immersive world, always do so?

    Of course, as pointed out by many others, if you are representative of the type of player that will be playing Pantheon, that attitude isn't doing a very good job of making others want to socialize with Pantheon's type of player anyways.  But hey, when one says "Pantheon is not the game for you" in that case, I agree there!  That said, I'd be surprised if the people in charge of Pantheon wanted to take that up as their advertising slogan.

    Regardless, even if (if) what you say applies to Pantheon, trying to force it on the entire MMORPG genre is indicative of a rather inflated ego.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,152
    Dullahan said:
    I don't mind there being antisocial people in the game, as long as the game doesn't reward them for it. A game should be comprised of all types of people, just like real life. Also like real life, many things should be less efficient, if not impossible, to do alone.

    The issue is some people do not see the value in player interaction. They are fine with people just populating their group like NPCs to facilitate their progress. Whether people realize it or not, there is value in having to interact with people, even in the smallest matters.
    lowut? What happened to the lack of independence being one of the core components missing from modern mmo design?
    Dullahan said:
    The second thing I believe is important, is letting players find ways to do things for themselves. Just doing away with so many of the gamey systems that do things for you and letting players succeed independently is an important aspect of MMOs that has been done away with.
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459745/no-group-finder/p6#Uup0hRDQpmcwtbQp.99
    Should players be independent or punished for it?

    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.

    And the idea of punishing players for not interacting on your terms and conditions is laughable.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    I don't mind there being antisocial people in the game, as long as the game doesn't reward them for it. A game should be comprised of all types of people, just like real life. Also like real life, many things should be less efficient, if not impossible, to do alone.

    The issue is some people do not see the value in player interaction. They are fine with people just populating their group like NPCs to facilitate their progress. Whether people realize it or not, there is value in having to interact with people, even in the smallest matters.
    lowut? What happened to the lack of independence being one of the core components missing from modern mmo design?
    Dullahan said:
    The second thing I believe is important, is letting players find ways to do things for themselves. Just doing away with so many of the gamey systems that do things for you and letting players succeed independently is an important aspect of MMOs that has been done away with.
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459745/no-group-finder/p6#Uup0hRDQpmcwtbQp.99
    Should players be independent or punished for it?

    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.

    And the idea of punishing players for not interacting on your terms and conditions is laughable.
    You are trying too hard.


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    I think, in general terms, some folks would like to see MMORPGs, in the unique position to do so more ably than any other genre, reward the effort of cooperation and social symbiosis that we enjoy in our every day lives to some extent.

    I like my friends, and I like smiting Orcs..  I'd love to smite Orcs with my friends, or make new friends while smiting Orcs.

    Today's MMORPGs typically do not reward players for the effort of cooperating (any more than is dictated by class mechanics and auto-grouped, mostly instanced content), do not reward them in any meaningful or noticeable way, or (when they do reward players) don't require any purposeful social interactivity.  The most common example of the last is LFD groups being able to complete dungeons without ever speaking a word to one another (or ever having a chance to as regeneration rates mean the fighting never stops).

    Make no mistake: grouping requires more effort than soloing, because it very much involves variables both out of a single player's control and unknown to the player.  Soloing involves elements out of the control of the player (mob attributes/mechanics), but he isn't going into a fight without knowing his general chances unless the game is so poorly designed that any given mob might be any given power level.  And once he's experienced that content once, it will then always be known to the player.  The grouper never knows who or how many folks are on that would like to group until he logs in and checks.  Then, in some cases, he is forced to either solo or play something else.  The soloer is never force to quit or play something else in the largest portion of modern MMORPGs, because he either never needs a group or, when he does, he can have the game auto-fill his group with players and take on content scaled so laughably easy that a 5-man NPC group could clear it without a single intelligent person sitting at a PC banging away at their keyboard and mouse.  Being able to flag one's self as looking for a group for other players to see when they are also looking is not even in the same league as scaled, instanced content and auto-ports to any dungeon in the world (in some cases, chosen cafeteria-style by the player prior to submitting himself to the queue).  That's done for a very clear purpose: to enable the soloer to complete group content without every truly interacting with other players.

    As I said at the beginning of the post, MMORPGs are in a unique position in the industry to create a game that groupers can enjoy.  Watching them actively avoid doing so is irritating for many folks, myself included.  I don't mind providing content for the soloers, as it takes all types to make a world, but when you start watering the group content down and taking all of the actual interaction out of it to appease the solo types, we start to wonder why you would even want to make a massively multiplayer game in the first place.  Just give us Skyrim 2 with 5-man MP instead and make more money for yourselves for less work.

    image
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    edited January 2017

     Just give us Skyrim 2 with 5-man MP instead and make more money for yourselves for less work.
    If one considers team-based games like MOBAs or FPSes (Overwatch, etc) and even survival games or hack-and-slashes for 5-man MP games or so, well...

    Game companies are pretty much doing what you said.  And for the same reason you said it (more money for less work, when you look at how profitable MMORPGs are these days and how much they cost to make...)

    There's a reason why there are so few MMORPGs on the horizon now.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,152
    Dullahan said:
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    I don't mind there being antisocial people in the game, as long as the game doesn't reward them for it. A game should be comprised of all types of people, just like real life. Also like real life, many things should be less efficient, if not impossible, to do alone.

    The issue is some people do not see the value in player interaction. They are fine with people just populating their group like NPCs to facilitate their progress. Whether people realize it or not, there is value in having to interact with people, even in the smallest matters.
    lowut? What happened to the lack of independence being one of the core components missing from modern mmo design?
    Dullahan said:
    The second thing I believe is important, is letting players find ways to do things for themselves. Just doing away with so many of the gamey systems that do things for you and letting players succeed independently is an important aspect of MMOs that has been done away with.
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459745/no-group-finder/p6#Uup0hRDQpmcwtbQp.99
    Should players be independent or punished for it?

    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.

    And the idea of punishing players for not interacting on your terms and conditions is laughable.
    You are trying too hard.
    Asking for clarity and consistency in your arguments is trying too hard? You couch your arguments behind subjective vagaries. Something tells me you can't reconcile and answer it so you deflect instead.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,152
    Apparently MOBAs are in an even bigger position to provide a game that groupers enjoy so no mmorpgs aren't in a unique position to satisfy that requirement. Any team based competitive game is in that position as well and some genres do it so much better in that regard than mmorpgs.

    So this argument really comes down to the idea that some people feel everyone should interact on their terms in their way. Just like it didn't end up working back then that won't work now.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    Yea, you want forced interaction?  It doesn't get much more forced than a MOBA, really.  In order to play the game AT ALL, you're FORCED to team up with others, and you're FORCED to play against another team.  And if you don't coordinate with your team, you're going to lose.  HORRIBLY.

    Now that's some really forced interaction!

    I imagine most people looking for a forced interactive experience that truly requires you to work with your team members like a well-oiled machine get their fix from MOBAs (and other team-based games).  All of it without the subscription fees (or predatory cash shops if F2P) and annoying grind that MMORPGs have.  You just jump into a MOBA, and it's 100% forced interactive hardcore team work all day, every day, with none of that annoying MMORPG baggage to get in the way (and you still get the same little rat pellet persistence too since most MOBAs give you little rewards for playing over time.  Just without being pressured so much to get it just to be viable in the latest dungeon).
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    Torval said:
    Dullahan said:
    I don't mind there being antisocial people in the game, as long as the game doesn't reward them for it. A game should be comprised of all types of people, just like real life. Also like real life, many things should be less efficient, if not impossible, to do alone.

    The issue is some people do not see the value in player interaction. They are fine with people just populating their group like NPCs to facilitate their progress. Whether people realize it or not, there is value in having to interact with people, even in the smallest matters.
    lowut? What happened to the lack of independence being one of the core components missing from modern mmo design?
    Dullahan said:
    The second thing I believe is important, is letting players find ways to do things for themselves. Just doing away with so many of the gamey systems that do things for you and letting players succeed independently is an important aspect of MMOs that has been done away with.
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/459745/no-group-finder/p6#Uup0hRDQpmcwtbQp.99
    Should players be independent or punished for it?

    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.

    And the idea of punishing players for not interacting on your terms and conditions is laughable.
    You are trying too hard.
    Asking for clarity and consistency in your arguments is trying too hard? You couch your arguments behind subjective vagaries. Something tells me you can't reconcile and answer it so you deflect instead.
    No, I just won't be wasting my time explaining context and reading comprehension while you intentionally interpret the things I say to mean something different.


  • jahnplayjahnplay Member UncommonPosts: 23
    edited January 2017
    Hi there,

    I have used this GoodGamer LFG Finder app before, it works pretty well for finding players for LFG/LFM groups.  I recommend getting it to help find other LFG players.

    If you are interested, this is their website.  They have a free Android app with real time alerts and there is a Web portal as well for non Android users.

    Website for more info:
    https://jpstudiosonline.com

    LFG Web portal:
    https://jpstudiosonline.com/siteapps/gg/
    LFG? Join our GoodGamer LFG Finder web portal today! Free Android app also available.
    Sorrowsnow77 Blog
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017
    Torval said:
    Apparently MOBAs are in an even bigger position to provide a game that groupers enjoy so no mmorpgs aren't in a unique position to satisfy that requirement. Any team based competitive game is in that position as well and some genres do it so much better in that regard than mmorpgs.

    So this argument really comes down to the idea that some people feel everyone should interact on their terms in their way. Just like it didn't end up working back then that won't work now.

    Actually you are correct IMO as I play LoL a ton (Mostly ARAM) because you are working as a team and have "roles" where if you don't know what you are doing you may detriment your team. Problem is the meta is pretty one dimensional and I also love in-depth MMORPs. That's why Pantheon seems so appealing as it combines the two. Playing titles where the challenging content is the end 5-10% is just boring.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    Aelious said:
    Torval said:
    Apparently MOBAs are in an even bigger position to provide a game that groupers enjoy so no mmorpgs aren't in a unique position to satisfy that requirement. Any team based competitive game is in that position as well and some genres do it so much better in that regard than mmorpgs.

    So this argument really comes down to the idea that some people feel everyone should interact on their terms in their way. Just like it didn't end up working back then that won't work now.

    Actually you are correct IMO as I play LoL a ton (Mostly ARAM) because you are working as a team and have "roles" where if you don't know what you are doing you may detriment your team. Problem is the meta is pretty one dimensional and I also love in-depth MMORPs. That's why Pantheon seems so appealing as it combines the two. Playing titles where the challenging content is the end 5-10% is just boring.
    I, too, play MOBAs these days to scratch my competitive itch.  In PvP, there's a whole slew of other factors to consider, though.

    @Torval, to my point though, those games provide excellent small team multiplayer.  They can't provide massive player interaction.  From the very dawn of the genre, part of the excitement spurring it on was the thought that technological advances would only enable these games to become bigger in terms of player and world interactivity...  Devs have, instead, instanced the crap outta any content that requires world interaction and focused on providing the same small multiplayer experience.  Only, MOBAs have a much wider berth to make the experience crisp and fun because they have a very narrow focus.

    Again, I have nothing against solo content, but the trend has been towards trivializing lots of group content to enable folks to complete it in the most solo format available: anonymous queue pairing.  Small team multiplayer games use this because ALL player interaction revolves around matches.  MMORPGs do not revolve around such a one-dimensional experience.  As such, I believe it's detrimental for them to mimic the systems used for those games.

    image
  • HigherhoHigherho Member UncommonPosts: 10
    I'm down with no group finder. /lfg, /shout, and camp checks is all I need!
  • Hokanu99Hokanu99 Member UncommonPosts: 12
    Torval said:
    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.
    This might be the second or third time you have referenced other players as being equivalent to NPC's in a group.  I don't know for sure but I think this probably best describes why you have so much trouble understanding why people who enjoy social interaction on a MMO do not support an insta port group finder feature.  I assume from your comments you see other players primarily (maybe only?) as tools for your advancement and while yes that is one part of the role they play, I am fairly sure others who are arguing against you at the moment as well as this also enjoy the company of other people while gaming on a mmo and make friends based on personality and continue to build the community for the better.  

    I know this is just a differing opinion and your experience may differ to mine, but the first time i played a insta port group finder game was also the first time in a mmo I found myself stopping interacting with people past the words that might be spoken on a single dungeon run before half the people disband and re-que. For me it is quite clear that this mechanic is the majority reason for no one seeing the point in making friends as you will probably never see that person in game again.  I guess the other % is made up of stupidly easy content and people being desperate to get to the end of a dungeon/game and start it all over again.  My experience again was after giving P99 a go later after nearly giving up on MMO's I immediately felt like I was in an environment to  start chatting, helping others for no gain, receiving help from others for no gain and making friends with people again in game (weird I know!!)

    Unfortunately for you as it stands this game is not going to give you the insta port feature you seem to be arguing for (as it stands in ESO or Rift or whatever) so your just a bit out of luck here hoping to have it implemented in Pantheon mate.
  • AenraAenra Member UncommonPosts: 45
    edited January 2017
    1) Sovrath mentions something most of you neglect (have mentioned the 'yes or no/duality syndrome' before as well) and just stick to the arguments that work for your side :)

    Social doesn't mean i need 4 more people just to walk to the tree across me.
    Social doesn't mean i need 5 more people for 'x' number of hours a day or i will STAY BEHIND (and you will). How the **** is that social, lol

    Social means co-existing (and that can happen in both group-centric and non group-centric MMOS)
    Social means interacting (interacting isn't only shit-talking while pew pewing like fifteen year olds, which is your definition of group-centric, isn't it? Let's be honest. Interacting is ALSO having people to just talk to, meet, craft with, RP with, do silly stuff with. And you do -not- need a group-centric game for any of those!)

    2) While Pantheon is what it is (and as such asking for solo play is just dumb, wrong product), the crowd is also what it is. TODAY.
    I've mentioned this in the official forums as well, this isn't 1999.

    If you think the entire WoW mentality is just gonna go out the window because the logo says Pantheon this time around, you're sorely mistaken.
    If you think that Pantheon is a magical glass bubble where somehow ONLY people from EQ1 will be around (or ONLY people thinking like them), you're again deluded.
    If you think Pantheon members with forum names such as Sylvannnah (true story) will somehow "see the light" and become what a thirty years older individual is right now.. go teach pigs to fly :)

    Ergo?
    i) stop derailing the thread with solo-centric arguments, wrong game, you're wasting our time.
    ii) the vast majority of you here, Brad included, have a pretty one-sided view on what is and is not "social", "positively interactive" etc etc. This is THE major issue. If the players are too dumb or immature to comprehend or think deeper, systems don't matter; they just won't be adopted.
    iii) Group-centric in 1999 and group-centric today cannot be the same thing. Impossible. They do acknowledge that in VR, yes. But frankly? When i need 5 slaves* right next to me just so i can pew pew (and you don't need to be smart, cute, funny or deep to pew pew, do you), i still need 5 slaves* to pew pew right next to me. Period.
    You can only stretch things so much when the core loot/progression mechanic revolves around that. And it does. So.. Problem. It's a cycle. You keep this type of progression, you keep this obligatory 'x' number of people enforcement, consequences will rise. Accept it. If you do, who knows, maybe someone will improve on things.

    (*slaves not because i refute the social aspect; slaves because pew pew is mindless, repetitive, and not particularly demanding, intellectually speaking. Since when is pew-pewing together equal to social exactly? Have you considered what this entails for us humans?)

    Long post, but it had to be. I wanted to show you that you too, the players, are an issue. Half of you don't even comprehend how vast and better the 'social' aspect could be, the other half of you stick to what you've been trained to like/see and refuse to remove the blindfold :)

    Pride, honour and purity

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,152
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    You keep using the word player interaction but haven't said what qualifies that? Apparently using players like NPCs to fill their group is okay as long as you interact with them first. If you don't interact then it's not okay to treat them as disposable.
    This might be the second or third time you have referenced other players as being equivalent to NPC's in a group.  I don't know for sure but I think this probably best describes why you have so much trouble understanding why people who enjoy social interaction on a MMO do not support an insta port group finder feature.  I assume from your comments you see other players primarily (maybe only?) as tools for your advancement and while yes that is one part of the role they play, I am fairly sure others who are arguing against you at the moment as well as this also enjoy the company of other people while gaming on a mmo and make friends based on personality and continue to build the community for the better.  

    I know this is just a differing opinion and your experience may differ to mine, but the first time i played a insta port group finder game was also the first time in a mmo I found myself stopping interacting with people past the words that might be spoken on a single dungeon run before half the people disband and re-que. For me it is quite clear that this mechanic is the majority reason for no one seeing the point in making friends as you will probably never see that person in game again.  I guess the other % is made up of stupidly easy content and people being desperate to get to the end of a dungeon/game and start it all over again.  My experience again was after giving P99 a go later after nearly giving up on MMO's I immediately felt like I was in an environment to  start chatting, helping others for no gain, receiving help from others for no gain and making friends with people again in game (weird I know!!)

    Unfortunately for you as it stands this game is not going to give you the insta port feature you seem to be arguing for (as it stands in ESO or Rift or whatever) so your just a bit out of luck here hoping to have it implemented in Pantheon mate.
    Yeah, you should probably go read the thread again carefully before you start off on some fantasy psychoanalysis.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,152
    Aelious said:
    Torval said:
    Apparently MOBAs are in an even bigger position to provide a game that groupers enjoy so no mmorpgs aren't in a unique position to satisfy that requirement. Any team based competitive game is in that position as well and some genres do it so much better in that regard than mmorpgs.

    So this argument really comes down to the idea that some people feel everyone should interact on their terms in their way. Just like it didn't end up working back then that won't work now.

    Actually you are correct IMO as I play LoL a ton (Mostly ARAM) because you are working as a team and have "roles" where if you don't know what you are doing you may detriment your team. Problem is the meta is pretty one dimensional and I also love in-depth MMORPs. That's why Pantheon seems so appealing as it combines the two. Playing titles where the challenging content is the end 5-10% is just boring.
    I don't disagree with you. I just disagree that mmorpgs are in a unique position to provide team based game play like that. I'm not a MOBA person. I've never played one. Most of my friends play MOBAs or team shooters. I didn't mean to imply they provide a good RPG experience at all. I dunno about that.

    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    None of us writing on this forums can be considered antisocial, we defy the very premise of antisocial when we engage in conversation.

     Maybe food for thought, I dont know. :)
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