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No group finder

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member LegendaryPosts: 7,253
    You guys make it sound like everyone who played EQ hated it because it was too hardcore. While this may have been true for some players or even most, the point is, we've learned over the years that easy mode sucks even worse. Playing WoW or similar easy mode games makes me feel like I'm playing a mobile game, not an MMORPG. Hard mode is classic EQ when achieving goals actually meant something. Some of us want to bring back the social aspects of old school MMO's. I have to agree 1000% with the very first response in this thread. Dungeon Finder ruined the purpose of MMO's for the very reason stated in that response. No one talks, no one helps and you're lucky if someone doesn't complain. You call that entertainment? No, I call that playing a single player game with really boring AI.

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.



    Guess it will be through your guild and the old EQ way. Be thankful we won't have to meet up somewhere like East Commoms to sell our wares. 




  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,364
    edited January 2017
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.



    Guess it will be through your guild and the old EQ way. Be thankful we won't have to meet up somewhere like East Commoms to sell our wares. 
    Oh? Have they said how things will be sold between players?
    --------------------------------------------
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.


    It is not a poor business decision because the core people who would play this game and would play it all the time and keep a sub would leave.  Hell I am not even going to play Pantheon because the grouping all the time, I like my grouping setup like UO, or SWG or Vanilla/TBC WOW.  BUT I will Defend their decision to do so because YOU will be able to find a group if you cultivate friends.  During my 6 months in FFXI before I played Vanilla WOW, I only didnt get a group twice, once because I didnt get on until late one night and the other because it was a Saturday night and all my friends could not be on and at the time there was 7 of us.  The rest of the time we called each other and setup times and this was 2004.   

    There are so many tools outside of the game today that you do not need a group finder tool.  Make friends have a Skype or Discord channel for them, get their Phone numbers, hell I have a few on speed dial.  And RARELY will you need a LFD tool in this game.  I will say I can see a Group Flagging system in this game and a way to browse these people, But if you have a group of friends you will be OK.  

    Hell even my time in vanilla WOW or TBC WOW I rarely had problems getting 5 man groups going, 15 man groups required a day or 2 prep, text messages, phone calls and emailing people.  20 and 40 mans needed a lot of a lot of work.  ALL of this got done without LFD and LFR.  So stop crying about it.  

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    Yep you dont want Mega servers but you also dont want what the hell WOW did which was having 200+ PVE servers alone which made smaller MMO communities.   The private WOW Server Nost shown us that  15K people online at one time on a server would work.  So do 2 US servers, one ET/CT based the other MT/PT based.  It would be large enough for good med tier guilds to be successful and for people to have people to become friends with.  
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:



    Aye thats generally how things work proforma and Im not even sure how in an MMORPG setting it could work any different.
     Its just that these debates often end up beeing people using the word "friends" a lot, when the pattern I have seen especially in raiding guilds, is that once a raider stops raiding, the person, unless it was a very very skilled player or outgoing person who might have taken on the role of raidleading or similar, would actually be forgotten in mere weeks. In some cases removed from a guild, in more cases, the ex raiders would hardly get a hello later on when greeting their "friends" in /g.

     People use the word friends a lot and often claim that soloplayers are unwilling to make friends, while the way I see it, its almost the opposite, soloplayers do indeed want to make friends, but in the true sense of friends, not  just an appropriately fitting tool for an ambitious person or guild.

     It wont change though. People will always play the "friends" card when debating these things and alienate soloers by claiming they are antisocial, which Im sure some are, but the majority really isnt. 

     
    I am going to jump in here.   Soloer's DO NOT BELONG PLAYING AN MMORPG.  If you are not willing to Make friends then go play a console game.  I hate to say it but you are basing your Bias on a very small portion of the MMO population.   

    First you are basing your stupid point of view on HIGH END RAIDING GUILDS that only give a fuck about progressing.  You stop helping them YES they forget about you.   That is about what less than 1% of the enter MMO Community.  And yes if you join a large guild that is 300 people online the guild as Cliques and yes you might not make friends.  Again less than 1% of the mmo community.  

    Maybe you should have joined a smaller to medium size guild.  YES you can make friends there that less a life time.  You know how I know, I ran several Smaller to Medium size guilds that also RAIDED.  I have a few Dozen friends that a few times a year say hello even though they do not play any MMOs anymore.  They maybe are not as close of a friend as they were when we played 20 hours a week, BUT we still say hello and see how each other is doing and how are the kids and all.  Guess what, THAT IS WHAT AN MMO IS.  You based your stupid point of view off what, less than 1% of all guilds?   

    O and to add to things.  A friend of mine who we been friends since 1998 and we have not playing an MMO together since the start of Cata is now coming back to MMOs to play FFXIV with me.  Another friend of mine who we talk all the time but have not played an MMO in 2 years together is now playing FFXIV with me.  I still talk to at least 8 or 9 friends also every few days all of which I met before LFD was put in and we still are FRIENDS.  Yet if they ended up coming back to play MMOs and played FFXIV they would end up having someone to run content with, they would just need to give me a few hours or day heads up because I have kids that are young and I cannot just drop everything to play an MMO.  Yet my friends who are playing give me 4 to 6 hours heads up or say like my friend Tags says hey tomorrow 9 or 10 AM lets run a Dungeon.  You know what I will be there.  

    That's TRUE friendship not the stupid point of view that you created based on such a small part of the MMO Player base.  If you REALLY wanted to make friends come on over to FFXIV and I would run with you.  Hell the Husband Wife team my wife and I met just 2 months ago have become friends as well and now together we built a raid team.  All based on Friendship, not hardcore you must be on 30 hours a week

    Sounds nice. I might take you up on that offer, I have considered playing FFXIV for quite a while.

     Apart from that Im not sure you need to get up in the red field about anything I say. I believe you, friends come in many different ways, ofcourse its possible to make deeper connections with people in raiding guilds aswell.

     Im merely stating a point of wiew that people who end up choosing a more solominded path, are often people who are done feeling like a tool for someone elses pleasure. Otherwise they do want to make friends, just I guess not so much with caplocks people who react strongly to things, when they encounter things they dont like reading.

     But thats just some soloers, not all.
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    Aradune said:
    TENTING said:
    Been looking at Pantheon for awhile. I have a feeling the world will be an amazing place to explore.
    However as far as the huge focus on group content goes, that leaves the impression that there is not much to do when you just want to progress on your own every now and then, means I will likely have to give the game a try and early leave and then wait for a game with a design similar to WoWs.

     And I am actually the generation of MMORRPGer that started with DaoC and EQ, but I got lonely pretty fast in those games. Sure we could go to caves and places where we could watch people needing players and maybe get invited eventually, but as far as group play that way goes, it actually felt pretty much the same as joining groups in current LFD and LFR design. People werent all that more talkative back then than they are now, it was pretty much the same. Some groups were chatty, a lot were not.
     
     People are still pretty much just people, some are shy, some cant type fast enough in between fighting, some people simply are not bothered to talk a whole lot, if they dont feel they have anything relevant to say.

     I personally like LFR and LFD and now premader finder like we see it in WoW, but I also dont really struggle to make friends through these things.

     However a friend made in an MMORPG is also not just a human ressource. I dont make friends with people just to have a handpicked net of players available when I want to do things ingame.

     Basicly I just make friends with people whom I feel I can turn to if I need help with a question, and I offer myself as a friend the same way.

     No LFD tools in Pantheon, well, to me its a shame, but to the demographic of players who long for this kind of gameplay, it will be a great adventure Im sure. Not all games are made for my own preferences and Im okay with that.
     I will just wait a bit more. Im really waiting for the full out VR designed and supportet MMORPG anyway tbh, so any game in between now and when that one comes out, wont be more than a smaller adventure in between destinations.
    While the primary focus is on group content, there will also be solo and raid content.

    Also in-game tools to help people find groups, form friendships, create guilds, and keep people together so they can focus on playing the game and not finding each other will be a huge part of Pantheon.

    I like reading what you write. I believe if these things are in the game and done well, with room for casual solo time in between grouping sessions, then Id feel a small butterfly of hype. Having watched some of the photage from the game, the exploration alone would be enough to make it worth the adventure.
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:



    Aye thats generally how things work proforma and Im not even sure how in an MMORPG setting it could work any different.
     Its just that these debates often end up beeing people using the word "friends" a lot, when the pattern I have seen especially in raiding guilds, is that once a raider stops raiding, the person, unless it was a very very skilled player or outgoing person who might have taken on the role of raidleading or similar, would actually be forgotten in mere weeks. In some cases removed from a guild, in more cases, the ex raiders would hardly get a hello later on when greeting their "friends" in /g.

     People use the word friends a lot and often claim that soloplayers are unwilling to make friends, while the way I see it, its almost the opposite, soloplayers do indeed want to make friends, but in the true sense of friends, not  just an appropriately fitting tool for an ambitious person or guild.

     It wont change though. People will always play the "friends" card when debating these things and alienate soloers by claiming they are antisocial, which Im sure some are, but the majority really isnt. 

     
    I am going to jump in here.   Soloer's DO NOT BELONG PLAYING AN MMORPG.  If you are not willing to Make friends then go play a console game.  I hate to say it but you are basing your Bias on a very small portion of the MMO population.   

    First you are basing your stupid point of view on HIGH END RAIDING GUILDS that only give a fuck about progressing.  You stop helping them YES they forget about you.   That is about what less than 1% of the enter MMO Community.  And yes if you join a large guild that is 300 people online the guild as Cliques and yes you might not make friends.  Again less than 1% of the mmo community.  

    Maybe you should have joined a smaller to medium size guild.  YES you can make friends there that less a life time.  You know how I know, I ran several Smaller to Medium size guilds that also RAIDED.  I have a few Dozen friends that a few times a year say hello even though they do not play any MMOs anymore.  They maybe are not as close of a friend as they were when we played 20 hours a week, BUT we still say hello and see how each other is doing and how are the kids and all.  Guess what, THAT IS WHAT AN MMO IS.  You based your stupid point of view off what, less than 1% of all guilds?   

    O and to add to things.  A friend of mine who we been friends since 1998 and we have not playing an MMO together since the start of Cata is now coming back to MMOs to play FFXIV with me.  Another friend of mine who we talk all the time but have not played an MMO in 2 years together is now playing FFXIV with me.  I still talk to at least 8 or 9 friends also every few days all of which I met before LFD was put in and we still are FRIENDS.  Yet if they ended up coming back to play MMOs and played FFXIV they would end up having someone to run content with, they would just need to give me a few hours or day heads up because I have kids that are young and I cannot just drop everything to play an MMO.  Yet my friends who are playing give me 4 to 6 hours heads up or say like my friend Tags says hey tomorrow 9 or 10 AM lets run a Dungeon.  You know what I will be there.  

    That's TRUE friendship not the stupid point of view that you created based on such a small part of the MMO Player base.  If you REALLY wanted to make friends come on over to FFXIV and I would run with you.  Hell the Husband Wife team my wife and I met just 2 months ago have become friends as well and now together we built a raid team.  All based on Friendship, not hardcore you must be on 30 hours a week

    Sounds nice. I might take you up on that offer, I have considered playing FFXIV for quite a while.

     Apart from that Im not sure you need to get up in the red field about anything I say. I believe you, friends come in many different ways, ofcourse its possible to make deeper connections with people in raiding guilds aswell.

     Im merely stating a point of wiew that people who end up choosing a more solominded path, are often people who are done feeling like a tool for someone elses pleasure. Otherwise they do want to make friends, just I guess not so much with caplocks people who react strongly to things, when they encounter things they dont like reading.

     But thats just some soloers, not all.
    I just dont like when people take a narrow minded approach.  Often times people who cannot play an MMO without a LFD/LFR tool are very narrow minded.  I also messaged you privately about my FFXIV server and FC.  I also have a raid/Group of friends that run together.  We just started grouping together in the last 2 months.  Funny that we all ended up in the same guild with the same view on games.  The problem we have is people get busy but at least we make a concerted effort to do things together,  The one night we did Tmaps and it was enjoyable as all hell.  

    I have a strong opinion because I have made many friends prior to LFD many I still hear from a few times a year.  Problem is the LFD tools today kill a lot of social interaction because you get 95% or greater of the players today telling you to just queue and stop asking for a group.  That is a piss poor attitude for an MMO player to have.  You should want to play with people and make every effort to make a premade before queuing.  Yea there are times you just queue however you should try to make a premade as much as possible.  
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Khazgul said:
    Kefo said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.
    This. 

    You really need to get your title changed Brad lol

    Kefo..No Alpha or Beta key for Jooo! LOL

    noooooooo!!!!
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    edited January 2017
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:




     
    I am going to jump in here.   Soloer's DO NOT BELONG PLAYING AN MMORPG.  If you are not willing to Make friends then go play a console game.  I hate to say it but you are basing your Bias on a very small portion of the MMO population.   

    First you are basing your stupid point of view on HIGH END RAIDING GUILDS that only give a fuck about progressing.  You stop helping them YES they forget about you.   That is about what less than 1% of the enter MMO Community.  And yes if you join a large guild that is 300 people online the guild as Cliques and yes you might not make friends.  Again less than 1% of the mmo community.  

    Maybe you should have joined a smaller to medium size guild.  YES you can make friends there that less a life time.  You know how I know, I ran several Smaller to Medium size guilds that also RAIDED.  I have a few Dozen friends that a few times a year say hello even though they do not play any MMOs anymore.  They maybe are not as close of a friend as they were when we played 20 hours a week, BUT we still say hello and see how each other is doing and how are the kids and all.  Guess what, THAT IS WHAT AN MMO IS.  You based your stupid point of view off what, less than 1% of all guilds?   

    O and to add to things.  A friend of mine who we been friends since 1998 and we have not playing an MMO together since the start of Cata is now coming back to MMOs to play FFXIV with me.  Another friend of mine who we talk all the time but have not played an MMO in 2 years together is now playing FFXIV with me.  I still talk to at least 8 or 9 friends also every few days all of which I met before LFD was put in and we still are FRIENDS.  Yet if they ended up coming back to play MMOs and played FFXIV they would end up having someone to run content with, they would just need to give me a few hours or day heads up because I have kids that are young and I cannot just drop everything to play an MMO.  Yet my friends who are playing give me 4 to 6 hours heads up or say like my friend Tags says hey tomorrow 9 or 10 AM lets run a Dungeon.  You know what I will be there.  

    That's TRUE friendship not the stupid point of view that you created based on such a small part of the MMO Player base.  If you REALLY wanted to make friends come on over to FFXIV and I would run with you.  Hell the Husband Wife team my wife and I met just 2 months ago have become friends as well and now together we built a raid team.  All based on Friendship, not hardcore you must be on 30 hours a week

    Sounds nice. I might take you up on that offer, I have considered playing FFXIV for quite a while.

     Apart from that Im not sure you need to get up in the red field about anything I say. I believe you, friends come in many different ways, ofcourse its possible to make deeper connections with people in raiding guilds aswell.

     Im merely stating a point of wiew that people who end up choosing a more solominded path, are often people who are done feeling like a tool for someone elses pleasure. Otherwise they do want to make friends, just I guess not so much with caplocks people who react strongly to things, when they encounter things they dont like reading.

     But thats just some soloers, not all.
    I just dont like when people take a narrow minded approach.  Often times people who cannot play an MMO without a LFD/LFR tool are very narrow minded.  I also messaged you privately about my FFXIV server and FC.  I also have a raid/Group of friends that run together.  We just started grouping together in the last 2 months.  Funny that we all ended up in the same guild with the same view on games.  The problem we have is people get busy but at least we make a concerted effort to do things together,  The one night we did Tmaps and it was enjoyable as all hell.  

    I have a strong opinion because I have made many friends prior to LFD many I still hear from a few times a year.  Problem is the LFD tools today kill a lot of social interaction because you get 95% or greater of the players today telling you to just queue and stop asking for a group.  That is a piss poor attitude for an MMO player to have.  You should want to play with people and make every effort to make a premade before queuing.  Yea there are times you just queue however you should try to make a premade as much as possible.  

    If I remember what I have been told correctly, FFXIV does have a LFD finder right?

     Its my prefered tool you see, I love that design in a game, makes it possible for me to do instances when Id like to.

     And on another note. I have made more lasting friends since LFD and LFR finders were introduced, because its real easy. Just walk up to any person in a city and say hello, if you are in the mood for it. Maybe they have a nice mount, maybe they have nice looking gear, maybe their character looks nice, maybe its a holiday time a year and you can wish them merry Christmas or if you are the humorous kind, just tell them happy birthday.
     Its really easy. It is for me anyway, because Im one of those people who dont require game designs to make me social.

     But when it comes to when Id like to do dungeons, which I prefere to do when I want and have time to do them independant on who and how many others are online, then LFD is my go to tool. And people I meet in dungeons are great fun. So why not? :)
    Post edited by TENTING on
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Lokero said:
    Kefo said:
    I'll lay out the secret to success to finding a group in a game like Pantheon.


    1) Don't be a dick
    2) Be good at the class you are playing or at least know the basics (I'm looking at you warriors who didn't like taunting)
    3) (optional) Help out anyone on your downtime/non grouping time because you never know who will be the leader of a group/guild you might want to join.
    Actually, I would argue that the number one secret to success is to not try to "find" groups but to be the coordinator who creates them.  That's always the fastest way to get a group together.  There's always many more people looking for a group than are willing to take that first step and start one.

    This is also true but you ever start a group or join one and you/the leader starts making questionable choices in group members?

    "Hey why did you invite that ranger?"
    "We need a healer and they are the only class with a heal spell looking right now"
    /disband
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,283
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.
    One would think this is a no brainer but apparently not....
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,364
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
    What is this game that you speak of that has a mega-server and/or dungeon finder (auto group matching) with the great community? Please do tell...
    --------------------------------------------
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
    What is this game that you speak of that has a mega-server and/or dungeon finder (auto group matching) with the great community? Please do tell...

    If he is talking about ESO then he must be playing it in an alternative universe lol. 

    That game is the king of antisocial mmo's. 




  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,802
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,183
    Gdemami said:
    Aradune said:
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.
    "Mega-server" isn't what you think it is...

    On the contrary, mega-servers help the community and grouping. But who cares about making sense when it comes to this thread(and this game), apparently that isn't the target audience... :-P
    What is this game that you speak of that has a mega-server and/or dungeon finder (auto group matching) with the great community? Please do tell...
    If he is talking about ESO then he must be playing it in an alternative universe lol. 

    That game is the king of antisocial mmo's. 
    Maybe it's you. I've found the ESO community to be really nice. If I'm in a public dungeon I help and get help from people. When I ask a question in the regional chat someone answers. I just try and be friendly.

    That's true in almost every game I've played. It's really not hard to fit in if you're polite and make an effort. Some people will be jerks (again true in any game) but other friendly players notice and boom, positive social interaction.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,183
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.
    What interaction do you keep bringing up that is missing in games that help match groups?

    You group up, put friendly and/or good players on your friends list, and then disband. When you group up again you send them a message and ask if they want to form up with you. Then if you're missing you all go looking for bodies to fill the slots.

    Disposable is how you treat people. Don't treat them that way and they won't be. Someone isn't disposable because arbitrary algorithms keep your characters together. Someone is disposable because you don't value them.
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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,802
    Dullahan said:
    Sovrath said:
    Dullahan said:
    Personally, I don't consider systems that provide disposable players to fill your group to be "social".
    What do you mean by disposable players?

    You could easily meet some great people and put them on your friends list. And, should none of them be available you could use their system once more in order to meet more people. Some good and some bad obviously.

    The level of interaction in games with matchmaking is pitiful. When the game does it for you, it doesn't require any interaction, and in most cases, there is none. You group up, clear a dungeon and disband.

    Hence they're disposable.
    In the example I gave there would be interaction. you would be notified about people looking for specific activities and then contact them and "interact".

    It's not about whether or not there is a tool, it's about how that tool works.

    I've grouped with people I've met "on the field" and there was absolutely no interaction. I supposed the removal of downtime is part of that.
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,537
    This will definitely be a niche game....
    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    danwest58 said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:




     

    I just dont like when people take a narrow minded approach.  Often times people who cannot play an MMO without a LFD/LFR tool are very narrow minded.  I also messaged you privately about my FFXIV server and FC.  I also have a raid/Group of friends that run together.  We just started grouping together in the last 2 months.  Funny that we all ended up in the same guild with the same view on games.  The problem we have is people get busy but at least we make a concerted effort to do things together,  The one night we did Tmaps and it was enjoyable as all hell.  

    I have a strong opinion because I have made many friends prior to LFD many I still hear from a few times a year.  Problem is the LFD tools today kill a lot of social interaction because you get 95% or greater of the players today telling you to just queue and stop asking for a group.  That is a piss poor attitude for an MMO player to have.  You should want to play with people and make every effort to make a premade before queuing.  Yea there are times you just queue however you should try to make a premade as much as possible.  

    If I remember what I have been told correctly, FFXIV does have a LFD finder right?

     Its my prefered tool you see, I love that design in a game, makes it possible for me to do instances when Id like to.

     And on another note. I have made more lasting friends since LFD and LFR finders were introduced, because its real easy. Just walk up to any person in a city and say hello, if you are in the mood for it. Maybe they have a nice mount, maybe they have nice looking gear, maybe their character looks nice, maybe its a holiday time a year and you can wish them merry Christmas or if you are the humorous kind, just tell them happy birthday.
     Its really easy. It is for me anyway, because Im one of those people who dont require game designs to make me social.

     But when it comes to when Id like to do dungeons, which I prefere to do when I want and have time to do them independant on who and how many others are online, then LFD is my go to tool. And people I meet in dungeons are great fun. So why not? 
    Honestly FFXIV is the ONLY game I found with a Cross Realm Grouping tool where people are somewhat Social.  WOW is just toxic and I end up hating the game way more than I care to play.   FFXIV if you act like a jack ass they will ban your account.  Also the end game bosses require some level of coordination so communication is needed and if you act the fool you just waste your time.  

    People are also far more mature in FFXIV and yes there are ass holes however the overall community is much better.   

    I do understand your point of view with doing a dungeon when you want to.  The Problem is that MMOs were built a the social aspect and forcing players to put the effort into helping one another even when you want to do something yourself.  Going and doing things when you want to has created 2 problems.  First today you need to do X amount of dungeons a week to cap on stones so you can progress in your gear; basically the game is a treadmill today.  Second its created a lot of toxic ME ME players.  Instead of saying hey let me help that new tank who cannot hold agro for his life (I had a tank in my last dungeon who couldnt hold agro for his life) they say F this and act like an ass hole and cause drama in the group.  This is good for no one.  In my last dungeon I had a tank that my wife as a healer and me as a Black Mage were pulling aggro off him.  Hell I main tanked the last boss and I didnt attack the boss until he was at 95%.  I ended up trying my best to help out the tank since he was trying to go PLD and my main is PLD.  He just wouldnt Flash 3 times before doing his rotation he also would just use 1 attack instead of building his combo rotation.  

    Even though I had a crappy tank I made every effort to help the guy out.  I even suggested he watch some videos on tanking before his next dungeon run and told him he could look me up anytime.  Now that is because the community in FFXIV is a hell of a lot better than WOW.  One off the core reasons is FFXIV players come from FFXIV 1.0 and FFXI where no LFD tools were built.  These players already formed communities and are a lot more respectable than most other MMOs.  You also dont see Free companies form every day and players jumping to this new Free Company like you do in WOW.  Players end up more dedicated to their free company than other games.  

    Really they could take the data center with the different servers can combine them into 1 server and remove the DF tool and groups would use the Party finder tool to find groups.  The game is more social than other MMOs because of the community.  

     
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Tokken said:
    This will definitely be a niche game....
    Yes it will and That will be good.  Again I am not going to play the game because I dont like the whole group all the time setup.  I would rather a mixture between UO, SWG and WOW vanilla/TBC.  Time for Solo content and a large place for Group content.  
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,367
    Gdemami said:
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.
    One would think this is a no brainer but apparently not....
    You're right, it's definitely not a no brainer at all.

    One part of the mystery of dungeons is you don't run them all the time and enter there like they were shopping malls ready to welcome you and your mates and make sure you're not overwhelmed by conditions inside. There should always be a chance someone gets killed, or you fail for what you were trying to do. Also, a virtual fantasy world has rules of its own. In many of them teleporting is something very few are able to do, and even for them it's not something they can do constantly.

    There are already these action games like WoW or CoD where you wait in a lobby (or a city, if you like) and queue for some action, and that's fun sometimes when you don't have much time. But there's a lack of games that work like a fantasy world simulator, where you can be a known blacksmith or famous treasure hunter, and in these kind of games group finder tools just won't work.
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