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No group finder

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  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:
    Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.
    Why would a solo player need a group finder? They play solo. If they used the group finder to play the game then they would be groupers waiting for a group. This isn't rocket science, or so I thought.

    You know who wants grouping tools? Groupers who like to play the game.
    What he means is the solo players will eventually need to group for some content (assuming all content in generic said mmo isnt 100% soloable) and at that point they will need a group finder because they have not made any friends.  

    @Dullahan has said it pretty much perfectly... there will be a tool/tools for grouping but not instant porta group finders. This also goes a long way to making your in game reputation matter when a group leader is deciding between 2 people of same class who are requesting to join a group which in turn helps to better the community and give people more reason to be community builders not so toxic.  All positive things in my opinion to creating a strong community and make Pantheon more like a living world than just another mmo
    Those aren't solo players. They would be groupers that have played solo, but solo players don't generally group much at all. If someone plays a game mostly solo they're not going to group when that wall hits them. They'll either idle or find another game.

    This manufactured soloer that has no friends and can't group themselves out of a wet paper bag is just a fantasy invented by people needing to point fingers and find blame.

    Even if you could find a couple outliers like that they are an extreme fringe case and not the norm.

    Grouping tools are for groupers, not soloers. I don't care what he thinks he meant, or what you think he probably meant, you're way off base if you think grouping tools are to help friendless soloers.

    Inspired by reading you response Torval, Id vager that a lot of people dont actually manually group up with people to make friends in the first place. Its just as often just people scouting for the most skilled players to add to their ressourcenet (Friendslist) so they can optimize their time online/ gameplay. And there is no harm in that, but it does have a strange ring to it every now and then, when these very socalled selfproclaimed social people, claim they are out to make friends, when in fact they just need strong "npcs"
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017
    Torval said:
    WellzyC said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    I have always disliked MMOs that use megaservers.  Games like ESO and GW2 where people are just background noise. Thousands of guilds and tens of thousands of players phasing in and out. 
    So very large massively multiplayer games don't work for you. That's sort of an odd position to take on a mmo site.
    That's an oversimplification the obscures the problem. The social issue is that with too many people on a server, players become nothing more than a face in a crowd. Most importantly, that stands in the way of players bonding and a greater sense of community.

    Secondarily, it leads to anonymity and a lack of player identity. Both for good and for bad, players should have a reputation. Without that reputation, there is no deterrent for mistreating people. That leads to a sense of lawlessness where it doesn't matter what you say and do, because it cannot come back around and prevent you from finding groups, progressing your character and having fun in general. That's a bad thing, and why we see such toxicity in games with megaservers.
    Post edited by Dullahan on


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,130
    Dullahan said:
    Torval said:
    WellzyC said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    I have always disliked MMOs that use megaservers.  Games like ESO and GW2 where people are just background noise. Thousands of guilds and tens of thousands of players phasing in and out. 
    So very large massively multiplayer games don't work for you. That's sort of an odd position to take on a mmo site.
    That's an oversimplification the obscures the problem. The social issue is that with too many people on a server, players become nothing more than a face in a crowd. Most importantly, that stands in the way of players bonding and a greater sense of community.

    Secondarily, it leads to anonymity and a lack of player identity. Both for good and for bad, players should have a reputation. Without that reputation, there is recompense for mistreating people. That leads to a sense of lawlessness where it doesn't matter what you say and do, because it cannot come back around and prevent you from finding groups, progressing your character and having fun in general. That's a bad thing, and why we see such toxicity in games with megaservers.
    No more oversimplified and crude than your assessment of the megaserver communities. Some guilds and players do get known and do have reputations.

    The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out.

    And let's not get into all the ways good or bad community members got around that reputation via alts, rerolls, and extra accounts. A bad reputation didn't screw anyone out of a game. Not being able to keep their mouths shut on their new or alt characters did that for them.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,130
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:
    Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.
    Why would a solo player need a group finder? They play solo. If they used the group finder to play the game then they would be groupers waiting for a group. This isn't rocket science, or so I thought.

    You know who wants grouping tools? Groupers who like to play the game.
    What he means is the solo players will eventually need to group for some content (assuming all content in generic said mmo isnt 100% soloable) and at that point they will need a group finder because they have not made any friends.  

    @Dullahan has said it pretty much perfectly... there will be a tool/tools for grouping but not instant porta group finders. This also goes a long way to making your in game reputation matter when a group leader is deciding between 2 people of same class who are requesting to join a group which in turn helps to better the community and give people more reason to be community builders not so toxic.  All positive things in my opinion to creating a strong community and make Pantheon more like a living world than just another mmo
    Those aren't solo players. They would be groupers that have played solo, but solo players don't generally group much at all. If someone plays a game mostly solo they're not going to group when that wall hits them. They'll either idle or find another game.

    This manufactured soloer that has no friends and can't group themselves out of a wet paper bag is just a fantasy invented by people needing to point fingers and find blame.

    Even if you could find a couple outliers like that they are an extreme fringe case and not the norm.

    Grouping tools are for groupers, not soloers. I don't care what he thinks he meant, or what you think he probably meant, you're way off base if you think grouping tools are to help friendless soloers.
    Inspired by reading you response Torval, Id vager that a lot of people dont actually manually group up with people to make friends in the first place. Its just as often just people scouting for the most skilled players to add to their ressourcenet (Friendslist) so they can optimize their time online/ gameplay. And there is no harm in that, but it does have a strange ring to it every now and then, when these very socalled selfproclaimed social people, claim they are out to make friends, when in fact they just need strong "npcs"
    That is exactly what the more competitive guilds I've played in did. In fact we would sometimes go a slot short on a group run to pick up new players and see if they were a fit.

    No harm in that at all in my opinion. It's the best way to build a really solid guild. If players can click together in a group pvp or pve runs then there is a good chance they'll work out in the guild. There is a social dynamic to grouping, being able to cooperate and work in a team, that speaks strongly about character. It's fun to shoot the breeze, but a good guildie and groupmate knows how to cooperate and compromise. That's generally who I like to end up socializing with in group content.

    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    Torval said: "The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out."
    ------

    This straight up never happens on megaservers. You have your circle you brought with you and that's it. 

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:
    Torval said:
    WellzyC said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    I have always disliked MMOs that use megaservers.  Games like ESO and GW2 where people are just background noise. Thousands of guilds and tens of thousands of players phasing in and out. 
    So very large massively multiplayer games don't work for you. That's sort of an odd position to take on a mmo site.
    That's an oversimplification the obscures the problem. The social issue is that with too many people on a server, players become nothing more than a face in a crowd. Most importantly, that stands in the way of players bonding and a greater sense of community.

    Secondarily, it leads to anonymity and a lack of player identity. Both for good and for bad, players should have a reputation. Without that reputation, there is recompense for mistreating people. That leads to a sense of lawlessness where it doesn't matter what you say and do, because it cannot come back around and prevent you from finding groups, progressing your character and having fun in general. That's a bad thing, and why we see such toxicity in games with megaservers.
    Im not on a mission to knitpick, but the line I bolded in your post at the buttom made me think about how ESO imo is different from your wiew.
     ESO is  possibly one of the communities I have ever encountered in my MMORPG history (spans over 2 decades) with the nicest active community (since dead games can be awfully nice, easy enough when no people in them).
     People are friendly in dungeons, helpfull, guide eachother. The community is very helpfull in the /zone chats to newbies. There are a lot of newbie friendly guilds recruiting all the time.
     I have not yet encountered anyone who excludes any class in a dungeon or pvp setting.
    I have not yet encountered anyone in an ESO dungeon kicked based on no heirloom gear, low dps or a simple mistake that may have caused wipes.

     And Im really not trying to put ESO on a piedestal, I am aware there is the occasional weirdo in a /zone chat, but the pleasant thing is that they are the exception, not the rule, which seems to be the case in so many other games.
     
     But well, didnt want to knitpick. Its not really all that important in the bigger picture, yet I guess when trying to figure out what makes a good community, I think there are far more contributing factors than just the server kind and individual players ability to become known in their communties.

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 8,722
    edited January 2017
    As long as their is a global chat channel for LFG I dont see a problem with this. 
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,130
    edited January 2017
    WellzyC said:
    Torval said: "The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out."
    ------

    This straight up never happens on megaservers. You have your circle you brought with you and that's it. 
    Like every other server. If you have 10 friends playing Pantheon you don't need to talk or socialize with anyone else. Unless you want something from them, just like on a unified server.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 699
    TENTING said:
    Inspired by reading you response Torval, Id vager that a lot of people dont actually manually group up with people to make friends in the first place. Its just as often just people scouting for the most skilled players to add to their ressourcenet (Friendslist) so they can optimize their time online/ gameplay. And there is no harm in that, but it does have a strange ring to it every now and then, when these very socalled selfproclaimed social people, claim they are out to make friends, when in fact they just need strong "npcs"
    I've always found the whole "no LFG forces you to be social!" argument to be odd for exactly that reason.

    I generally play tanks and healers -- more often the latter than the former, but typically I have both. In games/times where there hasn't been a decent LFG tool, my friends list was invariably full, but extremely few of the people on said list were 'friends' in any meaningful sense. Most I barely knew, or cared to, and as often as not there were several on the list I outright disliked or despised.

    People were on the list not because they were friends, but instead because they were reliable and good (or at least, better than the average PuGger, a low bar indeed) at some necessary function.

    In such games my "Friends" list was anything but, and, as such lists were generally limited as to how many people could be on them, oftentimes my actual friends weren't on my friends list and instead were kept track of via chat methods external to the game.

    While I miss a lot about the 'old days' when getting through a dungeon required a carefully constructed group working together in precise order, lots of CC, careful pulls, and all the rest, I certainly don't miss having to often be around people I often really didn't like but tolerated (and, no doubt, was only myself tolerated by them) because they were good at what they did. 
  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    edited January 2017
    Torval said:
    WellzyC said:
    Torval said: "The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out."
    ------

    This straight up never happens on megaservers. You have your circle you brought with you and that's it. 
    Like every other server. If you have 10 friends playing Pantheon you don't need to talk or socialize with anyone else. Unless you want something from them, just like on a unified server.

    No, games with ~1k players on a single servers saw lots of each other over and over again. It created familiarity. There were about 4-5 elite guilds everyone knew and respected. You knew their leaders by name and a lot of their officers. 

    It was very common to see multiple people you grouped with the days before sitting in a city crafting. It was easy to strike up conversations and meet new people because you had broken the ice with a dungeon or raid.

    Megaservers and cross server grp fingers destroyed this. 

    Games like eq, daoc, even vanilla wow. Community is why mmos were fun. Devs completely lost sight of why gamers enjoyed it so much back in the day.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017
    Torval said:
    WellzyC said:
    Torval said: "The larger the server, the more time it takes to build a broader reputation. You can still build one. It starts by building it in smaller circles and expanding that out."
    ------

    This straight up never happens on megaservers. You have your circle you brought with you and that's it. 
    Like every other server. If you have 10 friends playing Pantheon you don't need to talk or socialize with anyone else. Unless you want something from them, just like on a unified server.
    Not at all how it works, but you knew that. In EQ, even people in mega-guilds still had to rely on randoms for groups. The chance that there's actually 5 guildmates (esp of 10) online in your level range to form a proper group is almost nonexistent. This is also one more reason why I'm against mentoring without extreme moderation, because it also stands to allow players to circumvent the community at large and fosters exclusion rather than inclusion.
    Post edited by Dullahan on


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,747
    I don't see why group finders can't just be interactive classifieds.

    A person creates a "ticket" and inputs what they want to do "go to this dungeon"/"fly to x sector"/"whatever".

    Then other people put in similar tickets and when there are matches you are notified with a list of people looking for similar things. You contact one of them, they get a small chat window open up so they don't miss it on the scrolling chat window, you talk, agree to go here or there and then meet them.


  • MyriaMyria Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Torval said:
    Those aren't solo players. They would be groupers that have played solo, but solo players don't generally group much at all. If someone plays a game mostly solo they're not going to group when that wall hits them. They'll either idle or find another game.

    This manufactured soloer that has no friends and can't group themselves out of a wet paper bag is just a fantasy invented by people needing to point fingers and find blame.

    My husband was one such solo player. He played GW1, WoW, Rift, and a few other MMOS for years while ill (he had terminal cancer), but only once ever grouped with anyone save me (and that went badly). He liked playing in "living worlds" where there were live economies and other people running around doing whatever it was they did, but had no interest in any endgame and felt too pressured in group content to want to bother with it.

    He had no in-game friends, nor interest in making any, no aspirations of being the best or having the best gear, and certainly no particular worries about what anyone else might have thought of his playstyle. He would start a character -- almost always a hunter/ranger type -- level it until he got bored, and then start another. He had dozens of near-identical (save race, typically) characters in several games. 

    He was a 'soloer', and far from the only one of his type I've known -- in a guild I helped run in Rift we had several. As with my husband, as someone who often is quite social in games, at least when I want to be, I could have easily gotten any of them into groups, even carried through content if they'd wished it. But they didn't, they weren't soloers by necessity, but instead by preference.

    Pretty much by definition, the notion that grouping tools are there for his ilk is so laughable it's shocking anyone would even seriously suggest such a thing. As with far too much of the discussion around here when it comes to MMOs and how they "should" be played, it can only come from a narrow-minded belief that everyone must, should, or does want the same thing.
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 6,063
    edited January 2017
    Sovrath said:
    I don't see why group finders can't just be interactive classifieds.

    A person creates a "ticket" and inputs what they want to do "go to this dungeon"/"fly to x sector"/"whatever".

    Then other people put in similar tickets and when there are matches you are notified with a list of people looking for similar things. You contact one of them, they get a small chat window open up so they don't miss it on the scrolling chat window, you talk, agree to go here or there and then meet them.


    That was something like what COH and FFXIV had/have. You could write in what you want to do and what type of experience you're after in the spaces.

  • VaselVasel Member UncommonPosts: 215
    I recall the days in EQ1 where you didn't bother logging on if you didn't have more than an hour to play. It took 20 minutes to find a group and 10 minutes to agree on something then 10-15 to get there. Group finder would help with most of those issues. they have to get with the times or it will be a niche game for the hardcore only.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,747
    kitarad said:
    Sovrath said:
    I don't see why group finders can't just be interactive classifieds.

    A person creates a "ticket" and inputs what they want to do "go to this dungeon"/"fly to x sector"/"whatever".

    Then other people put in similar tickets and when there are matches you are notified with a list of people looking for similar things. You contact one of them, they get a small chat window open up so they don't miss it on the scrolling chat window, you talk, agree to go here or there and then meet them.


    That was something like what COH and FFXIV have. You could write in what you want to do and what type of experience you're after in the spaces.

    That seems to make the most sense. This way you have a system that is actually matching people to their preferences while they play and then they can contact each other, be social, and make plans.
  • WellspringWellspring Member EpicPosts: 1,344
    Vasel said:
    I recall the days in EQ1 where you didn't bother logging on if you didn't have more than an hour to play. It took 20 minutes to find a group and 10 minutes to agree on something then 10-15 to get there. Group finder would help with most of those issues. they have to get with the times or it will be a niche game for the hardcore only.
    How is a "group finder" different than the LFG and LFM tools found in EQ1 today? What features in particular are "with the times" missing from EQ1 that you are looking for?
    --------------------------------------------
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    You can socialize if the objective takes an hour but to spend an additional hour or two looking for people to help you then an hour or two doing the task.  That is entertaining?  I get the social part, I get the moving away from WoW group done and leave without saying a word.  That bugs me also and understand the move away from that but you can still have the need to have social questing and have a way to have players look for others wanting to explore the same area.  


    Basically if you cannot handle not having a group finder tool dont play this game.  There could be a group browser for people to flag themselves but that's it.  MMOs stopped being MMOs the day WOW Put the LFD tool it.  If fucked up MMOs beyond repair because it has made people too god dam lazy for anything other than to jump on a treadmill for a month or 2 then quit.  I am defending this game even though I do not plan to play it because of the fact it will be a group all the time game like EQ1 and FFXI.  I like the MMO Balance of SWG, or UO or Vanilla/TBC WOW.  Today's MMOs are fucked.  You either DEAL with what the designers of the game want who are not trying to have more than a few hundred thousand players or go play another MMO.  It's long past time that MMOs stop Aimming to be the next WOW, a Game for EVERYONE.  I do think some mechanics dont belong in MMOs that are old school or too far out of line but requiring people to socialize is the most important pillar of an MMO which WOW fucked.
  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:
    Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.
    Why would a solo player need a group finder? They play solo. If they used the group finder to play the game then they would be groupers waiting for a group. This isn't rocket science, or so I thought.

    You know who wants grouping tools? Groupers who like to play the game.
    What he means is the solo players will eventually need to group for some content (assuming all content in generic said mmo isnt 100% soloable) and at that point they will need a group finder because they have not made any friends.  

    @Dullahan has said it pretty much perfectly... there will be a tool/tools for grouping but not instant porta group finders. This also goes a long way to making your in game reputation matter when a group leader is deciding between 2 people of same class who are requesting to join a group which in turn helps to better the community and give people more reason to be community builders not so toxic.  All positive things in my opinion to creating a strong community and make Pantheon more like a living world than just another mmo
    Those aren't solo players. They would be groupers that have played solo, but solo players don't generally group much at all. If someone plays a game mostly solo they're not going to group when that wall hits them. They'll either idle or find another game.

    This manufactured soloer that has no friends and can't group themselves out of a wet paper bag is just a fantasy invented by people needing to point fingers and find blame.

    Even if you could find a couple outliers like that they are an extreme fringe case and not the norm.

    Grouping tools are for groupers, not soloers. I don't care what he thinks he meant, or what you think he probably meant, you're way off base if you think grouping tools are to help friendless soloers.
    Inspired by reading you response Torval, Id vager that a lot of people dont actually manually group up with people to make friends in the first place. Its just as often just people scouting for the most skilled players to add to their ressourcenet (Friendslist) so they can optimize their time online/ gameplay. And there is no harm in that, but it does have a strange ring to it every now and then, when these very socalled selfproclaimed social people, claim they are out to make friends, when in fact they just need strong "npcs"
    That is exactly what the more competitive guilds I've played in did. In fact we would sometimes go a slot short on a group run to pick up new players and see if they were a fit.

    No harm in that at all in my opinion. It's the best way to build a really solid guild. If players can click together in a group pvp or pve runs then there is a good chance they'll work out in the guild. There is a social dynamic to grouping, being able to cooperate and work in a team, that speaks strongly about character. It's fun to shoot the breeze, but a good guildie and groupmate knows how to cooperate and compromise. That's generally who I like to end up socializing with in group content.


    Aye thats generally how things work proforma and Im not even sure how in an MMORPG setting it could work any different.
     Its just that these debates often end up beeing people using the word "friends" a lot, when the pattern I have seen especially in raiding guilds, is that once a raider stops raiding, the person, unless it was a very very skilled player or outgoing person who might have taken on the role of raidleading or similar, would actually be forgotten in mere weeks. In some cases removed from a guild, in more cases, the ex raiders would hardly get a hello later on when greeting their "friends" in /g.

     People use the word friends a lot and often claim that soloplayers are unwilling to make friends, while the way I see it, its almost the opposite, soloplayers do indeed want to make friends, but in the true sense of friends, not  just an appropriately fitting tool for an ambitious person or guild.

     It wont change though. People will always play the "friends" card when debating these things and alienate soloers by claiming they are antisocial, which Im sure some are, but the majority really isnt. 

     
  • TokkenTokken Member RarePosts: 2,526
    edited January 2017
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.


    Make PvE GREAT Again!
  • wormedwormed Member UncommonPosts: 472
    You know people are starving for a game like Pantheon when people rush en masse to Everquest's Phinigel progression server. It was, by far, the only MMORPG that kept my interest. I hope Pantheon releases in 2017.
  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    Correct, it's all on the cloud now. Splitting servers, choosing their location, launching new servers, etc. all a matter of running some simple scripts.

    Also wouldn't want to do a mega-server for gameplay reasons.  The population needs to match the amount of content on a shard.  Allowing too many people to be on a single shard would create over-crowding and too much fighting over resources; likewise, under-crowding is the antithesis of a group focused game.

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    Tokken said:
    You can still be social and have group finder.  I personally don't want to wait the extra time to find a group b/c of no group finder, and chat spam sucks.  I want to play the game and have fun especially since my time is limited.  I think it's a poor business decision.

    I guess my group finder will be through my guild.


    Grouping tools and a dungeon finder are very different.

    Most people are saying they are against the megaserver/grp finder. But a LFG tool where you can find players who are lfg and talk to them is fine.

    Also, a really robust /who system is really helpful when lfg/lfm.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    TENTING said:
    Torval said:
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:



    Aye thats generally how things work proforma and Im not even sure how in an MMORPG setting it could work any different.
     Its just that these debates often end up beeing people using the word "friends" a lot, when the pattern I have seen especially in raiding guilds, is that once a raider stops raiding, the person, unless it was a very very skilled player or outgoing person who might have taken on the role of raidleading or similar, would actually be forgotten in mere weeks. In some cases removed from a guild, in more cases, the ex raiders would hardly get a hello later on when greeting their "friends" in /g.

     People use the word friends a lot and often claim that soloplayers are unwilling to make friends, while the way I see it, its almost the opposite, soloplayers do indeed want to make friends, but in the true sense of friends, not  just an appropriately fitting tool for an ambitious person or guild.

     It wont change though. People will always play the "friends" card when debating these things and alienate soloers by claiming they are antisocial, which Im sure some are, but the majority really isnt. 

     
    I am going to jump in here.   Soloer's DO NOT BELONG PLAYING AN MMORPG.  If you are not willing to Make friends then go play a console game.  I hate to say it but you are basing your Bias on a very small portion of the MMO population.   

    First you are basing your stupid point of view on HIGH END RAIDING GUILDS that only give a fuck about progressing.  You stop helping them YES they forget about you.   That is about what less than 1% of the enter MMO Community.  And yes if you join a large guild that is 300 people online the guild as Cliques and yes you might not make friends.  Again less than 1% of the mmo community.  

    Maybe you should have joined a smaller to medium size guild.  YES you can make friends there that less a life time.  You know how I know, I ran several Smaller to Medium size guilds that also RAIDED.  I have a few Dozen friends that a few times a year say hello even though they do not play any MMOs anymore.  They maybe are not as close of a friend as they were when we played 20 hours a week, BUT we still say hello and see how each other is doing and how are the kids and all.  Guess what, THAT IS WHAT AN MMO IS.  You based your stupid point of view off what, less than 1% of all guilds?   

    O and to add to things.  A friend of mine who we been friends since 1998 and we have not playing an MMO together since the start of Cata is now coming back to MMOs to play FFXIV with me.  Another friend of mine who we talk all the time but have not played an MMO in 2 years together is now playing FFXIV with me.  I still talk to at least 8 or 9 friends also every few days all of which I met before LFD was put in and we still are FRIENDS.  Yet if they ended up coming back to play MMOs and played FFXIV they would end up having someone to run content with, they would just need to give me a few hours or day heads up because I have kids that are young and I cannot just drop everything to play an MMO.  Yet my friends who are playing give me 4 to 6 hours heads up or say like my friend Tags says hey tomorrow 9 or 10 AM lets run a Dungeon.  You know what I will be there.  

    That's TRUE friendship not the stupid point of view that you created based on such a small part of the MMO Player base.  If you REALLY wanted to make friends come on over to FFXIV and I would run with you.  Hell the Husband Wife team my wife and I met just 2 months ago have become friends as well and now together we built a raid team.  All based on Friendship, not hardcore you must be on 30 hours a week
  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    TENTING said:
    Been looking at Pantheon for awhile. I have a feeling the world will be an amazing place to explore.
    However as far as the huge focus on group content goes, that leaves the impression that there is not much to do when you just want to progress on your own every now and then, means I will likely have to give the game a try and early leave and then wait for a game with a design similar to WoWs.

     And I am actually the generation of MMORRPGer that started with DaoC and EQ, but I got lonely pretty fast in those games. Sure we could go to caves and places where we could watch people needing players and maybe get invited eventually, but as far as group play that way goes, it actually felt pretty much the same as joining groups in current LFD and LFR design. People werent all that more talkative back then than they are now, it was pretty much the same. Some groups were chatty, a lot were not.
     
     People are still pretty much just people, some are shy, some cant type fast enough in between fighting, some people simply are not bothered to talk a whole lot, if they dont feel they have anything relevant to say.

     I personally like LFR and LFD and now premader finder like we see it in WoW, but I also dont really struggle to make friends through these things.

     However a friend made in an MMORPG is also not just a human ressource. I dont make friends with people just to have a handpicked net of players available when I want to do things ingame.

     Basicly I just make friends with people whom I feel I can turn to if I need help with a question, and I offer myself as a friend the same way.

     No LFD tools in Pantheon, well, to me its a shame, but to the demographic of players who long for this kind of gameplay, it will be a great adventure Im sure. Not all games are made for my own preferences and Im okay with that.
     I will just wait a bit more. Im really waiting for the full out VR designed and supportet MMORPG anyway tbh, so any game in between now and when that one comes out, wont be more than a smaller adventure in between destinations.
    While the primary focus is on group content, there will also be solo and raid content.

    Also in-game tools to help people find groups, form friendships, create guilds, and keep people together so they can focus on playing the game and not finding each other will be a huge part of Pantheon.

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
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