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No group finder

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,833
    Someone mentioned about bad ideas for grouping and good and i  agree.Instant auto group dungeons is extremely lame,something i would expect from Blizzard because they have no clue about immersion or proper rpg game design.

    Personally i don't want to see a game turned into a dungeon raid Boss killing game,Wow is that way,i have already played far more of that type of gaming than i want to do anymore.

    I really don't know the perfect answer and it sure seems none of the devs do either.I am quite certain we will see more generic gaming,best gear attained in Dungeon Boss fight.Like i said,i don't know the perfect answer but i sure as hell wish a developer can figure it out and give us a more immersive world all the whiel not giving another Wow  clone part 5,000,000,001.

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  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,268
    edited January 2017
    It may sound weird, but mmos aren't about a single individual how the game is tailored to them. It was original about people working together and often compromising the things they wanted for themselves to help others, so in turn those people that were helped could do the same. Sure, auto grouping and dungeon finders are great, but as was mentioned before, they breed an anti-social and also greedy atmosphere. "Why dont they just put this in dungeon finder sooner so >>> I <<< can get it done when >>> I <<< want?" "Why do >>> I <<< have to find people for this content?" But grouping assistence tools have existed for at least a decade and a half with Ragnarok Online and FFXI. They didn't build the groups for you but they allowed people to search and even put comments next to their names what they wanted to do (at least FFXI did), which should be more than enough.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited January 2017
    I think a LFG flag system is fine.  If they aren't going to implement porting to the group leader, I'd like to see a class/skill line or two with a spell that ports players.  I feel that's a fair compromise.

    I heartily agree that mega servers/cross-server grouping is detrimental to MMORPGs as an experience.  I, too, think that 1,000-3,000 player servers are ideal as folks can achieve some sense of persistent identity in the world.

    image
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    I'll lay out the secret to success to finding a group in a game like Pantheon.


    1) Don't be a dick
    2) Be good at the class you are playing or at least know the basics (I'm looking at you warriors who didn't like taunting)
    3) (optional) Help out anyone on your downtime/non grouping time because you never know who will be the leader of a group/guild you might want to join.

    You do that and I can guarantee that you will have no issue either getting a group or being put on a waiting list for a camp you want. I played a monk in EQ and I always got tells within a few minutes when I logged in because of the above 3 rules.

    There are exceptions of course. If you play a healer you can generally be an ass to people because everyone needs a healer lol
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Or play a buffing class but yeah all of the above. 

    Seems that Pantheon is the main mmo topic of conversation so far in 2017. 




  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.
    This. 

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.
    This. 

    You really need to get your title changed Brad lol
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,268
    Kefo said:
    I'll lay out the secret to success to finding a group in a game like Pantheon.


    1) Don't be a dick
    2) Be good at the class you are playing or at least know the basics (I'm looking at you warriors who didn't like taunting)
    3) (optional) Help out anyone on your downtime/non grouping time because you never know who will be the leader of a group/guild you might want to join.

    You do that and I can guarantee that you will have no issue either getting a group or being put on a waiting list for a camp you want. I played a monk in EQ and I always got tells within a few minutes when I logged in because of the above 3 rules.

    There are exceptions of course. If you play a healer you can generally be an ass to people because everyone needs a healer lol
    I agree with your points, sadly games like WoW and even FFXI compromised their gaming "integrity" for money, allowing you to transfer pretty much as much as you want whenever you want (minor cooldown of 3 days or something now?) Back in the old days of FFXI, you could only transfer once every 3 months, which did greatly reduce people being pricks. Now every game lets you troll all day with no game consequence since you can transfer or just buy a name change and do it again.
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.

    Great info!
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 961
    I rarely used those group finders in any MMO I played so far. And when I used it the experience was average at best, sometimes much worse. Only fun groups I had were by grouping the "traditional" way. So it's fine for me.
  • AraduneAradune Sigil Games CEOMember RarePosts: 294
    Kefo said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.
    This. 

    You really need to get your title changed Brad lol
    They claim they don't have the ability to change it -- have asked a couple of times.

    --

    --------------------------------------------------------------
    Brad McQuaid
    CCO, Visionary Realms, Inc.
    www.pantheonmmo.com
    --------------------------------------------------------------

  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Aradune said:
    Kefo said:

    You really need to get your title changed Brad lol
    They claim they don't have the ability to change it -- have asked a couple of times.
    You just going to allow them treat you that way? 
    Come on, McQuaid!!! Step. It. Up.
  • LokeroLokero Member RarePosts: 1,514
    Kefo said:
    I'll lay out the secret to success to finding a group in a game like Pantheon.


    1) Don't be a dick
    2) Be good at the class you are playing or at least know the basics (I'm looking at you warriors who didn't like taunting)
    3) (optional) Help out anyone on your downtime/non grouping time because you never know who will be the leader of a group/guild you might want to join.
    Actually, I would argue that the number one secret to success is to not try to "find" groups but to be the coordinator who creates them.  That's always the fastest way to get a group together.  There's always many more people looking for a group than are willing to take that first step and start one.
  • KhazgulKhazgul Member CommonPosts: 3
    Kefo said:
    Aradune said:
    Dullahan said:
    Pantheon will have a robust social and group-finding system, but will not fast travel you to that group. No auto-pathing, mini map, exclamation points or sparkling quest objectives. It's up to you to explore and figure things out.
    This. 

    You really need to get your title changed Brad lol

    Kefo..No Alpha or Beta key for Jooo! LOL
  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,941
    When I was playing a DPS class in Everquest I realised how wonderful it would have been if I had rolled a cleric or enchanter. This time round playing a buffer or healer or crowd control. Wonder how many other people will have the same idea for the same reasons........dangnamit

  • AnthurAnthur Member UncommonPosts: 961
    kitarad said:
    When I was playing a DPS class in Everquest I realised how wonderful it would have been if I had rolled a cleric or enchanter. This time round playing a buffer or healer or crowd control. Wonder how many other people will have the same idea for the same reasons........dangnamit
    Just a guess but I assume you will see lots of healers and cc class players in Pantheon. Just because there are not really many MMOs left where those dedicated roles still exist. Healers are even hated by many players (according to these forums). Playing a tank usually has the best chances to get a group. Too bad I suck at those. 
    Anyway, being a nice and open person probably grants you the highest chances. ;)
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,512
    edited January 2017
    I was about to start a topic about this, but I know I have to back off on topics !


    -  Auto group finders and dungeon finders are bad they completely kill mmos.

    -  Spamming chat is real bad....It never ever works.

    -  Even good Guilds are often worthless because no one is level appropriate ( just try and find 4 other level 20s in a guild, and willing to go at YOUR convince ).

    - New players don't understand acronym's, shortened titles or level appropriate content in rolling chat.



    This is important and I'm sure everyone could agree:

    I'm playing LOTRO.  This is the first time I ever gave the game a real shot. I played up to level 20 with three character's and finally picked my main class. 

    So now I understand the game's dynamics and have a solid main level twenty, I'm ready to dive into the social aspects.  Playing for a few weeks, I often find myself watching the rolling chat. 

    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ANYONE IS ADVERTISING FOR **
    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT LEVEL OR HOW MANY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR **
    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE TO MEET UP WITH THEM, IF I WERE TO TAKE AN INVITE **

    Now, you would say, join a guild and ask questions.....What questions do I ask?   



    This is important too:

    I'm willing, and have the knowhow to overcome this grouping problem.  I can FORCE myself to utilize this games dynamics (I'll not go into detail).....Several others here can too !

    ** BUT, WHAT ABOUT THE THOUSANDS OF PLAYERS THAT ARE WISHING THEY CAN TOO ? ***

    Most will say fuck it !


  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 5,941
    Most people just ask what the acronym means and if the community does reply without resorting to insults that should give a player an indication of what the community is like. No one should be jumping down your throat for asking questions in chat.

  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Been looking at Pantheon for awhile. I have a feeling the world will be an amazing place to explore.
    However as far as the huge focus on group content goes, that leaves the impression that there is not much to do when you just want to progress on your own every now and then, means I will likely have to give the game a try and early leave and then wait for a game with a design similar to WoWs.

     And I am actually the generation of MMORRPGer that started with DaoC and EQ, but I got lonely pretty fast in those games. Sure we could go to caves and places where we could watch people needing players and maybe get invited eventually, but as far as group play that way goes, it actually felt pretty much the same as joining groups in current LFD and LFR design. People werent all that more talkative back then than they are now, it was pretty much the same. Some groups were chatty, a lot were not.
     
     People are still pretty much just people, some are shy, some cant type fast enough in between fighting, some people simply are not bothered to talk a whole lot, if they dont feel they have anything relevant to say.

     I personally like LFR and LFD and now premader finder like we see it in WoW, but I also dont really struggle to make friends through these things.

     However a friend made in an MMORPG is also not just a human ressource. I dont make friends with people just to have a handpicked net of players available when I want to do things ingame.

     Basicly I just make friends with people whom I feel I can turn to if I need help with a question, and I offer myself as a friend the same way.

     No LFD tools in Pantheon, well, to me its a shame, but to the demographic of players who long for this kind of gameplay, it will be a great adventure Im sure. Not all games are made for my own preferences and Im okay with that.
     I will just wait a bit more. Im really waiting for the full out VR designed and supportet MMORPG anyway tbh, so any game in between now and when that one comes out, wont be more than a smaller adventure in between destinations.

       

     

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited January 2017
    <snip>
    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ANYONE IS ADVERTISING FOR **
    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHAT LEVEL OR HOW MANY THEY ARE LOOKING FOR **
    ** I HAVE NO CLUE WHERE TO MEET UP WITH THEM, IF I WERE TO TAKE AN INVITE **

    Now, you would say, join a guild and ask questions.....What questions do I ask?   



    Actually I would say just ask in chat: New player looking for help usually works. Or you can ask what "xxxxx" means. This will work in LotR though because it has a core playerbase that recognised long ago that it has to help and encourage new players. I would be very surprised if someone didn't respond. 

    Now Pantheon - at launch - everyone will be new, there will be limited content and limited types of content. So everyone will be in the same boat. And it does plan on having mentoring.

    If you ask in the LotR forums someone will explain what the shorthand that has evolved to making it quick and easy to put groups together. Old style! Several are available to eveyone as well: PEL for example and GOND - two different types of group content that are available to anyone who downloads the game. https://www.lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Instances

    When it comes to group finder tools though I do feel that a simple listing of people - available to take part in group content CoH style say - wouldn't go amiss in games. It can have the more sophisticated ones as well of course.   

    Oh ...OK. 

    "PEL 2/6 any level" would be someone wanting to run the 6 person version of an instance called Retaking Pelargir, any level can ask for an invite. This content scales everyone to level 105.
    "GOND 3/6 or 12 level 60" would be 3 people ready to run either the 6 person or the 12 person version of "Retaking Gondamon" at level 60. This content doesn't scale the players the mobs in the dungeon can be varied though. 
    And some instances don't scale the mobs or the players.

    How do you meet up with them. Varies. Some you can auto-transport to. Some you can only transport to if you have discovered the dungeon. Some you travel. And LotR is a (very) big game; it has no flying and limited porting / instant transport. Sometimes you just have to ride.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    <snip>
    I heartily agree that mega servers/cross-server grouping is detrimental to MMORPGs as an experience.  I, too, think that 1,000-3,000 player servers are ideal as folks can achieve some sense of persistent identity in the world.
    Pros and cons of course. What a megaserver avoids is the need for server mergers of course. And if you restrict servers you will need mergers. 

    ESO - being the obvious megaserver example - is interesting in that it also has (PvP) campaigns that are population limited (c. 3k) and these are generally considered to have "more sociable" guilds. The PvP campaigns reset but it is usually the same guilds that take part and they see the same people.

    Whether Zenimax attempt to keep the same people together - probably not. As that might be a way to go - best of both worlds so to speak.

    CU doesn't plan on a megaserver of course - ostensibly because of social issues but single server solutions are cheaper on day 1. Later of course you get extra costs as the need for mergers kicks in. And I am sure we have all been on dead servers and know the problems. 
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.


  • WellzyCWellzyC Member UncommonPosts: 599
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.

    I have always disliked MMOs that use megaservers.  Games like ESO and GW2 where people are just background noise. Thousands of guilds and tens of thousands of players phasing in and out. 


    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938
    Hokanu99 said:
    Torval said:
    goboygo said:
    Group finders are for games that don't really need guilds, where all the content can be soloed  so people haven't taken the time to develop any relations in the game.  So the only way they can get a group is with a dungeon finder.
    Why would a solo player need a group finder? They play solo. If they used the group finder to play the game then they would be groupers waiting for a group. This isn't rocket science, or so I thought.

    You know who wants grouping tools? Groupers who like to play the game.
    What he means is the solo players will eventually need to group for some content (assuming all content in generic said mmo isnt 100% soloable) and at that point they will need a group finder because they have not made any friends.  

    @Dullahan has said it pretty much perfectly... there will be a tool/tools for grouping but not instant porta group finders. This also goes a long way to making your in game reputation matter when a group leader is deciding between 2 people of same class who are requesting to join a group which in turn helps to better the community and give people more reason to be community builders not so toxic.  All positive things in my opinion to creating a strong community and make Pantheon more like a living world than just another mmo
    Those aren't solo players. They would be groupers that have played solo, but solo players don't generally group much at all. If someone plays a game mostly solo they're not going to group when that wall hits them. They'll either idle or find another game.

    This manufactured soloer that has no friends and can't group themselves out of a wet paper bag is just a fantasy invented by people needing to point fingers and find blame.

    Even if you could find a couple outliers like that they are an extreme fringe case and not the norm.

    Grouping tools are for groupers, not soloers. I don't care what he thinks he meant, or what you think he probably meant, you're way off base if you think grouping tools are to help friendless soloers.
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 19,938
    WellzyC said:
    Dullahan said:
    Not that I understand much about it, but the way sharding works now it's supposedly quite easy to split or reconcile servers at any time. There is no need to create megaservers which work against player reputation and community.
    I have always disliked MMOs that use megaservers.  Games like ESO and GW2 where people are just background noise. Thousands of guilds and tens of thousands of players phasing in and out. 
    So very large massively multiplayer games don't work for you. That's sort of an odd position to take on a mmo site.
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