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I'll say it again, Pantheon will be huge

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  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 17,976
    If a developer gets 99% of the game right,i couldn't care less about a loading screen.Every single game out there has lost immersion in almost every aspect of it's design,so point the finger at a loading screen is only 1% of the problem.
    To be honest,we can't even properly discuss these games because every topic needs 6/7/8 paragraphs to properly explain the entire design for each area and how it should be done.
    I will say this,i have 99% confidence that Brad know's what would make a great ,amazing game but i also feel he is restricted from doing so.Budget,team size,team skill,timelines all a factor.If he had Star citizen's cosntant cash flow then i would be sitting on the edge of my seat,but that is not happening.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,137
    I got my Pop Corn ready.  ;)
  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Recore said:
    I got my Pop Corn ready.  ;)



    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

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    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Member RarePosts: 2,711

    I was an early patron of the game, but some recent reveals have turned me off.  I had hoped that it would be more like Vanguard than EQ, but that doesn't appear to be happening and I refuse to go back to the days of sitting on my butt to meditate and being forced to always camp thanks to the need to meditate.  I'm not addicted to MMO's to the extent that I will play them despite the downsides and or bugs.  There are aspects of game play that I will not overlook and will happily move on to the next game or stop playing them altogether until something else comes along.

    I no longer care if the game succeeds or fails, I'm already looking at Dark and Light and if it fails to please, then I'm ready for the long wait for something else.

    image
  • baphametbaphamet Member RarePosts: 3,308

    I was an early patron of the game, but some recent reveals have turned me off.  I had hoped that it would be more like Vanguard than EQ, but that doesn't appear to be happening and I refuse to go back to the days of sitting on my butt to meditate and being forced to always camp thanks to the need to meditate.  I'm not addicted to MMO's to the extent that I will play them despite the downsides and or bugs.  There are aspects of game play that I will not overlook and will happily move on to the next game or stop playing them altogether until something else comes along.

    I no longer care if the game succeeds or fails, I'm already looking at Dark and Light and if it fails to please, then I'm ready for the long wait for something else.

    i asked you once before.....why not play a class that doesn't require medding?
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017

    I was an early patron of the game, but some recent reveals have turned me off.  I had hoped that it would be more like Vanguard than EQ, but that doesn't appear to be happening and I refuse to go back to the days of sitting on my butt to meditate and being forced to always camp thanks to the need to meditate.  I'm not addicted to MMO's to the extent that I will play them despite the downsides and or bugs.  There are aspects of game play that I will not overlook and will happily move on to the next game or stop playing them altogether until something else comes along.

    I no longer care if the game succeeds or fails, I'm already looking at Dark and Light and if it fails to please, then I'm ready for the long wait for something else.

    Having to stop and rest will not prevent a group from crawling. It will only prevent a group from crawling non-stop. Without rest taking time, resource management, strategy, and the danger of exploration take a huge hit.
    baphamet said:

    i asked you once before.....why not play a class that doesn't require medding?
    Pretty sure every class will have some sort of resource expenditure. Allowing melees to go nonstop while casters had to meditate was the main source of imbalance in EQ, and why raids constantly wanted more monks and rogues rather than wizards.

    If it were up to me, I'd make even auto attack drain energy.


  • Zer0KZer0K Member UncommonPosts: 68
    There are elements of EQ and Vanguard that I want to see return.  However, they need to be adjusted in a smart way.  I'm waiting to see more of Pantheon play examples to get better grasps on how things will work.  Wait and see..
  • Twisted77Twisted77 Member UncommonPosts: 89

    Just look what's going on in the General Discussion Forums.  Then look at any individual game forums, and then look at the Pantheon Forum, and last watch how people react when mentioning Pantheon. 


    I only started following Pantheon for this very reason... and some banners on signatures. 

    IMO a game with forced grouping requires more than a niche playerbase... player times * character levels * character classes * completed dungeon progression = a real problem getting in a group fast if the population is <100K.

    I'm skeptical, but am trying to learn more about the game.
  • XatshXatsh Member UncommonPosts: 383
    Forced grouping can work easily even with a nitche playerbase if you think even the largest games have server caps.

    So even if pantheon had 50k subs max, which I would say will be low. It could still have 10k per server. So the population per server would not be any lower then if the game had 10-50million players really.

    Since pantheon has no cross world dungeon finders to my knowledge the size of the population outside your server will have 0 impact on your ability to get things done.

    Only thing overall population usually dictates is how long a game last. Larger and stable population means longer life for the game.
  • SirAgravaineSirAgravaine Member RarePosts: 520
    edited January 2017
    This game looks (gameplay) meh.
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Zer0K said:

    /snip
    I am not arguing against the success of Pantheon but merely what the OP is expecting. His expectations are wildly unrealistic and his ideas on how people will react grossly exaggerated. I think Pantheon can and will do well but nothing very grand for sure and I am confident that my predictions are not wrong.
    Vanguard: Saga of Heros was a painful experience for me.  It lost most of its potential player-base between release and when SOE took over.  Many people dropped the game, simply because of all the CTDs they were getting, just couldn't play the game.
    Some things promised to be in at release never made it in til later.

    /snip
    Most of that is what I can not forget about McQuaid's last game.

    He could not even produce Vanguard to completion with $30+ mil and dozens of full time, paid, employees. It was released, months later after SOE bought it, and barely worked for most, did not work at all for some.

    And yet, with Pantheon, some magical masterpiece is supposed to come into being, if you believe people like the OP, with a semi-amateur team and a very small sliver of the money.

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    All the ideas and plans and designs and hopes, dreams and everything else will not amount to jack if there is not the cash to pay for the effort to force it into existence, in anything other than Mortal Online form.

    Have hope about this title if you want, but having reasonable expectations will serve a lot better.




  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,545
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Iselin said:
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Accused" is the word that pops out to me. What was the end verdict? Did they prove it and settle or take him to court? I honestly don't know but I assume you do.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,545
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Accused" is the word that pops out to me. What was the end verdict? Did they prove it and settle or take him to court? I honestly don't know but I assume you do.
    The deleted FB post (a copy of which you can just barely see on the left) expressing regret is the part that pops out at me.

    The end verdict? People are still giving him money so that must mean something.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Iselin said:
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Accused" is the word that pops out to me. What was the end verdict? Did they prove it and settle or take him to court? I honestly don't know but I assume you do.
    The deleted FB post (a copy of which you can just barely see on the left) expressing regret is the part that pops out at me.

    The end verdict? People are still giving him money so that must mean something.

    So it's old information based on an action viable in court but was never taken there or resolved... as though it was indeed just an accusation? Oh but it's so sensational! ;) Why would you even bring it up then? Actually don't tell me, I already know :p
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 14,545
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Accused" is the word that pops out to me. What was the end verdict? Did they prove it and settle or take him to court? I honestly don't know but I assume you do.
    The deleted FB post (a copy of which you can just barely see on the left) expressing regret is the part that pops out at me.

    The end verdict? People are still giving him money so that must mean something.

    So it's old information based on an action viable in court but was never taken there or resolved... as though it was indeed just an accusation? Oh but it's so sensational! ;) Why would you even bring it up then? Actually don't tell me, I already know :p
    So what exactly was this court action you're fantasizing about? That he took a 3 month pay advance? Lol.

    But you ARE missing the part that takes math to figure out. If a 3 month pay advance is $45k what does that make his annual salary? let's see... I make it about $180K. Yup seems about right.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

    "... the "influencers" which is the tech name we call sell outs now..."
    __ Wizardry, 2020
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017
    Iselin said:
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Aelious said:
    Iselin said:
    Burntvet said:

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    Yeah... remember this bit from a couple of years ago?

    http://www.crowdfundinsider.com/2014/05/38081-pantheon-rise-fallen-lead-developer-accused-taking-35k-crowdfunding-campaign/

    "Accused" is the word that pops out to me. What was the end verdict? Did they prove it and settle or take him to court? I honestly don't know but I assume you do.
    The deleted FB post (a copy of which you can just barely see on the left) expressing regret is the part that pops out at me.

    The end verdict? People are still giving him money so that must mean something.

    So it's old information based on an action viable in court but was never taken there or resolved... as though it was indeed just an accusation? Oh but it's so sensational! ;) Why would you even bring it up then? Actually don't tell me, I already know :p
    So what exactly was this court action you're fantasizing about? That he took a 3 month pay advance? Lol.

    But you ARE missing the part that takes math to figure out. If a 3 month pay advance is $45k what does that make his annual salary? let's see... I make it about $180K. Yup seems about right.


    Yes please be condescending while at the same time using that mechanism to pose fantasy. It's yummy. The reason why I asked if any legal action was taken was because if there was indeed anything going on they would take him to court. If they didn't most likely they didn't have any proof. 180k huh? That would be more than enough for a decent attorney to take the case IF there was enough proof... which obviously there was not.


    Edit: I misread the quote above as the 180k figure was what was alleged. That's on me. 45k would still be enough I would imagine.

  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521

    Back on the topic of the thread I can see why some that are staunch supporters of other, more modern MMOs would not want Pantheon to appeal to the masses or even take a portion of mainstream players. Most modern MMO releases garner a large number to begin with and then shed them once the title is not "new" (usually about a month) and head back to their "home base."


    Pantheon should operate a bit differently there. Focused more on the long term journey and community it could snag the "hoppers" for longer than usual. This may stick in the craw of those that either do not like the type of MMO Pantheon is or do not want it effecting their playerbase. One can hope ;)

  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    edited January 2017
    Burntvet said:
    Zer0K said:

    /snip
    I am not arguing against the success of Pantheon but merely what the OP is expecting. His expectations are wildly unrealistic and his ideas on how people will react grossly exaggerated. I think Pantheon can and will do well but nothing very grand for sure and I am confident that my predictions are not wrong.
    Vanguard: Saga of Heros was a painful experience for me.  It lost most of its potential player-base between release and when SOE took over.  Many people dropped the game, simply because of all the CTDs they were getting, just couldn't play the game.
    Some things promised to be in at release never made it in til later.

    /snip
    Most of that is what I can not forget about McQuaid's last game.

    He could not even produce Vanguard to completion with $30+ mil and dozens of full time, paid, employees. It was released, months later after SOE bought it, and barely worked for most, did not work at all for some.

    And yet, with Pantheon, some magical masterpiece is supposed to come into being, if you believe people like the OP, with a semi-amateur team and a very small sliver of the money.

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    All the ideas and plans and designs and hopes, dreams and everything else will not amount to jack if there is not the cash to pay for the effort to force it into existence, in anything other than Mortal Online form.

    Have hope about this title if you want, but having reasonable expectations will serve a lot better.





    Dead horse is a dead horse, seriously it gets old really quick any arm chair dev seems to think they know exactly what happened and talk as if they could of done better. 

    Some did have problems with the game and some look beyond the bugs and played the game from start to finish. 

    This thread is nothing to do with what you are talking about so stick to the topic. You can have your opinion but if thats the case move on and wait and see what happens instead of flogging a dead horse. 

    Fact is many didn't think the game would get this far and now it's looking more and more like the game is coming they are not happy or they want the game changed to one of the other dozen of same boring mmo's. 

    So glad it isn't going to be one of those. 

    The Op haven't help anything with a thread like this because it brings the bitter and haters out in droves, this is probably the longest Pantheon thread so far. 

    We don't want Pantheon to be huge, we want it to cater to the niche and let the others who like cash shops and instant rewards stick to the dozen of mmo's out there already. 





  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    edited January 2017


    We don't want Pantheon to be huge,


    I assume "We" in this case does not include the topic creator, right?
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member RarePosts: 3,432
    Tiamat64 said:


    We don't want Pantheon to be huge,


    I assume "We" in this case does not include the topic creator, right?

    The Op should not of even made a thread proclaiming that Pantheon is going to be huge, it is dumb and brings negative vibes to the game. 

    Ask any backer or follower if they would want this game to be huge or niche most would say niche. 





  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Burntvet said:
    Zer0K said:

    /snip
    I am not arguing against the success of Pantheon but merely what the OP is expecting. His expectations are wildly unrealistic and his ideas on how people will react grossly exaggerated. I think Pantheon can and will do well but nothing very grand for sure and I am confident that my predictions are not wrong.
    Vanguard: Saga of Heros was a painful experience for me.  It lost most of its potential player-base between release and when SOE took over.  Many people dropped the game, simply because of all the CTDs they were getting, just couldn't play the game.
    Some things promised to be in at release never made it in til later.

    /snip
    Most of that is what I can not forget about McQuaid's last game.

    He could not even produce Vanguard to completion with $30+ mil and dozens of full time, paid, employees. It was released, months later after SOE bought it, and barely worked for most, did not work at all for some.

    And yet, with Pantheon, some magical masterpiece is supposed to come into being, if you believe people like the OP, with a semi-amateur team and a very small sliver of the money.

    In the MMO business, cash is not king, it is God.

    All the ideas and plans and designs and hopes, dreams and everything else will not amount to jack if there is not the cash to pay for the effort to force it into existence, in anything other than Mortal Online form.

    Have hope about this title if you want, but having reasonable expectations will serve a lot better.





    /snip

    We don't want Pantheon to be huge, we want it to cater to the niche and let the others who like cash shops and instant rewards stick to the dozen of mmo's out there already. 


    Agree with the /snip portion but wanted to point out the above references two possible things. Pantheon could be huge while also not catering to those that like cash shops and instant rewards. There is a large portion of MMO players that haven't played this type of game and now with a modern version coming out, may like it. The reality is that with more revenue can come more development and to a greater degree.

  • CaldicotCaldicot Member UncommonPosts: 451
    YUUUUGE

    If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe. - Carl Sagan

  • RhoklawRhoklaw Member EpicPosts: 7,228
    $45k is small potatoes compared to the Chris Roberts and family spending habits. Funny how they got ahold of Brad's information, but no one can manage to figure out how much money CGI is investing into Star Citizen and how much was used on personal spending, side ventures and so on. Not that I approve of what Brad may or may not have done, I can only assume stuff like this or the Star Citizen fantasy will cause a stigma in the crowd funding industry.

  • moki22moki22 Member UncommonPosts: 2
    Everything about pantheon looks like it has learned from the mistakes of its predecessors. Its going to be massive and I cant wait! 
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