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I'll say it again, Pantheon will be huge

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  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,529
    DMKano said:
    DMKano said:
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:

    Then basically you agree with him, because by backing up Kano he's already saying 50k is the likely forecast at this time anyways.

    500k though.... Did Everquest even have that many?  Remember that people have to actually know about the existance of this game and care enough to look at it before they will actually buy it.  How far do you think the game's marketting department will be able to reach?  How many people do you think will look at the name, "Pantheon", and decide to spend money to try it out?  This isn't an F2P or non-subscription B2P game either (unless that changed?) so getting that many people to open up their wallets for it will be all that much harder.
    People will be able to play the trial before purchasing.

    EQ topped out around 500k 13 years ago back when most people still didn't have the internet.
    I remember seeing graphs that showed various game populations. As I remember it Everquest topped out at around 700k. 450k is certainly verifiable.
    700K never happened for EQ1, the got close to 500K

    if there was such a huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today:

    - P99 wouldn't have around 1200 players at peak, it would be in tens of thousands
    - There would be a at least half a dozen EQ1 "clones" in the works right now

    Neither is happening - you know why?

    Because there isn't 450k players who'd play EQ1 type game today - that's why, people grew up, they have full time jobs and families.

    EQ1 required vast amounts of time to play - this kind of time commitment is simply unmanageable today for a huge number of players who used to play EQ1 17 years ago.

    Priorities change - it's normal. 

    Yep, cause people back when EQ1 was big didn't have jobs either, mmhmm.

    People act like times have changed, that people didn't have jobs then when we all know that's further from the truth.  Did EQ require a lot of time? Hell yes it did but it also was one of the few games that gave players that sense of accomplishment, something that is missing from MMO's for the past many years.

    I think you're wrong with when you comment on about the whole huge demand for EQ1 vanilla game today.  Since so many people put so much stock in graphics, if a game released with similar gameplay aspects as EQ with updated graphics, you'd be extremely surprised just how big of a following it would hold. 

    On a side note, with all due respect Kano, why the hell is every single post of yours, regardless of the topic at hand, always negative? Being negative about everything make you feel good?  I can't say I have ever seen someone so negative on game forums(and I read a lot of different forums) than you.  Every time I see your name in a thread, I can pretty much guaran damn tee its going to be something negative.  Is that your role on these forums?  

    If you interpret my posts as "negative" that is your doing.

    Reality just is, positive and negative are descriptions that people place on events for easy filing within their memory banks. Little boxes with labels.

    I can show you that my posts are not negative, that negativity is a label you make and put on them.



    I do, I take most of your post as "negative" in a very mild way. 


    Now understand, both you and I have totally different views, always have, I can respect that, I really can. In fact, I don't think their is any hatred between us because we both know we have different opinions.

    However, you seem to be extremely standoffish with everyone, you would rarely admit agreement with anyone.  But blurt out your general opinion in a very general way that strikes me and I'm sure many as cold. 

    Well, as far as me.......I'm just nasty.....but at least I know it :)

  • hayes303hayes303 Member UncommonPosts: 377
    I hope this game releases in a solid state and its fans enjoy the hell out of it. I don't think it is going to be a huge mainstream gaming draw as it is geared towards one very specific demographic. 

    People seem to forget that when EQ was in its heyday, there were very few MMO offerings to choose from then there are today. People accepted the good with the bad, as there wasn't much choice. Now Pantheon is coming into a hugely saturated market, with several other games on the horizon looking to mow the same lawn. I wish them luck, but I'll wait and see.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    Dullahan said:

    I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
    So we've gone from Pantheon being "huge" to just "doing well", now?
  • Kunai_VaxKunai_Vax Member RarePosts: 527
    Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. 
    I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,747
    exile01 said:
    the thing is: If pantheon was released years ago, it would have a huge following. Nowdays it has to contest with games that have 10y of content. People will scream its not finished and broken.
    There's truth to that. I seem to remember when Aion launched World of Warcraft players were saying "well, wow has this and wow has that".

    A certain type of player will expect that the game "must" have certain features.

    But then again the developers know their audience so as long as they stay the course and make a game that captivates that audience they will be able to make a go of it.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,529
    Kunai_Vax said:
    Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. 
    I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.

    See here's the thing about that,


    MMos are designed with short attention spans !!

    ..........................WHO SAYS THE PLAYERS LIKE IT !!!!.....................

    This is another reason Pantheon will be Huge
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 28,747
    Nyctelios said:
    tatertoad said:
    splong said:
    Huge?  Judging by the last stream...No.
    Can they survive? maybe.

    I had been following the game for a while and when I saw that stream, it clicked for me.  Maybe it won't be "huge" but there I feel like there is some pent up demand for this type of gameplay with modern graphics, UI and some quality of life improvements (or not).
    Agree.

    I don't get why people just play things on the millions or so. Why does it matter? Do you really think a MMO would be less enjoyable if you had less servers?

    Millions, thousands, whatever - as long the population holds the necessary for the game mechanics / events nothing else matters. As long the game pays itself and give the devs money so their kids can go to college who cares?

    I completely agree.

    for some reason people always equate "the more people that like it the better it is".

    This is not to say that means it's "crap" if it has large numbers (though some would say it does). If one million people love something and 5 people think it's crap it's only crap to those 5 people.

    However there is a whole world out there of things that are not loved by the multitudes (and I should know I'm a patron of many of those things) and these things still get made, still have an audience and thrive in their own way.
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 9,137
    It will be huge fail.  ;)
  • tokinitokini Member UncommonPosts: 372
    Dullahan said:
    Kyleran said:

    I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
    interesting, because a while back you tried to imply there were millions of people interested in this sort of game. (i remember you linking an article and *you* claimed 2+ million people have purchased EQ, when it was pointed out that article included the original game and its first 7 expansions , you went silent)  the game is super niche, will be lucky to have 3 low to med pop servers. it might be a great example of what it tries to be, but what its trying to be isnt really desired by many people anymore. why the change of opinion, Dullahan?why have you backed off the Panthaon super success party line?

    we have to admit, this isnt the game people want anymore.  why are 2D platformers all indie niche, low cost games? the gaming world changes. Pantheon may be great at what it does in the end, but it will probably be at Age of Conan levels of population - at best.
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 2017
    DMKano said:

    I am a backer - and Pantheon is something I look forward to playing - as EQ1 vanilla is still my favorite PvE MMORPG of all time.

    It doesn't mean I have to be unrealistic about it being niche.


    It's not unrealistic saying that Pantheon is a niche game.
    I am the first to admit it, even Virtual Realms admit it candidly, only the OP thinks Pantheon is going to be the next WoW killer.
    What is unrealistic though  is your idea of niche, you are putting yourself on the same level as the OP.

    EvE is a niche game and managed to hold on 400k players for many years, outside of MMOs Dark Soul is a niche game yet one of the most popular RPGs.
    These are the real niche games that actually have a real player base, and Pantheon is on the same level, it has an established player base consisting of current and ex EQ players, old school players looking for a new home and some of those players who enjoyed Vanilla WoW and might like Pantheon as the Group mechanics (Dungeons, Raids) of WoW wasn't so much different from EQ.
    Pantheon is not on the same level of Darkfall kinda niche, not by a long shot.

    You should know the numbers of people who played this kind of games throughout those years since you are a veteran, so how can you think that a "potential" 400-500k players is unrealistic.
    And I said it again, this is based only on historic data, it doesn't take into consideration  the new generation of gamers some of which might actually like this type of game.

    So what I am saying is that Pantheon will have 1 Million players?
    No, that's not what I am saying.
    What I am saying is the pool of potential players is much larger that what you claim to be and after taking into account a drop of 50- 60% of players off the potential pool, a more realistic number would be 200-250k players.
    If they launch Pantheon in the same state they launched Vanguard, there is not even a debate, this game will sink faster than the Titanic.
    However IF Brad and Co. manage to make something truly innovative (not a carbon copy of EQ) the number of players could be even more than 250k.

    It's all up to Virtual Realms, the player base is there, how many of those potential players will become actual it's up to them.

  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 6,529
    DMKano said:
    Kunai_Vax said:
    Cant really see it being huge. Todays audience have short attention spans and many will jump ship after a few weeks/months. As for the older audience, well our numbers become fewer and fewer each year and ive yet to see a game in the last decade that really grabs hold of us. 
    I've watched some videos and cant say im that excited about it, but then the last several years have left me a little jaded, along with many others i suspect.

    See here's the thing about that,


    MMos are designed with short attention spans !!

    ..........................WHO SAYS THE PLAYERS LIKE IT !!!!.....................

    This is another reason Pantheon will be Huge

    MMOs are designed to fit the lifestyles of players TODAY - an average player today jumps from one game to the next every 2-6 weeks.

    This happens regardless of how "good" the game is for an average player (of course there are exceptions)

    Today people have a lot less free time to devote to a single game (due to myriad of online activities that didn't exist 15 years ago, like social media, netflix, steam etc...)

    So the devs have changed the formula to fit the lifestyle of majority of the playerbase - which is short session gaming like MOBAs and team FPS games.

    While you and I and many veteran players might be ok having to wait 25 minutes for a ship that takes another 20 min ride to bring you to the other continent - the average player has no desire nor time for that.


    Totally disagree,


    There not fitting the lifestyle, their making their games short and small with 30 days of content, without the player in mind.


    Players have a lot less free time ?......Why, because you have a lot less free time?


    Waiting times, can be stream lined naturally......Your talking 2003.


    Take away the "short attention span games" and will have a gem :)

     
  • RytheronRytheron Member CommonPosts: 6
    Sure it'll be huge.  And I will participate as a fellow mmo player as I have with the likes of eq2 (since beta)...ac2 before that...It will be what it will be, love or leave it ... plain and simple.  Any wanna-be big e-peeners and vanilla bois will suck a big 1 for daddy, you can bet on it...have fun with that! ... but if the game captures my attention for future playtime, cool...and I'll find those bois and make their life miserable   :)
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 2017
    DMKano said:
    ste2000 said:


    If (and that's a pretty big if) - Pantheon has super smooth gameplay with no bugs, a stable client and stable server end - the game COULD have over 100K players at launch, but I don't think that it can have over 200K players with the current design.


    Also lets say that somehow they manage 250K players - will they have the infrastructure to handle that many clients? I mean imagine servers getting crushed under load with terrible performance for all due to overloading - that would go over as well as a turd in a puncbowl.

    It is EXTREMELY hard for a MMORPGs today to have even 250k+ players 6 months post launch, even some AAA titles struggle to maintain that level of playerbase, for an indie game it's virtually impossible.

    MMORPGs have problem retaining 250k people because mostly they are a pile of steaming shit, let's be honest.
    You guys praise the beauty of modern MMORPGs while truth is people will play them for a couple of months before getting bored with it.....that's the kind of MMO you are promoting guys (not just you).
    Modern MMOs are made to last a month or two, not enough content and a super fast leveling it's a deadly combination for player retention.
    What do you expect players to do when they run out of content after a month, to stick around?
    It doesn't take a genius to understand that once players run out of content they move on to something else.

    Pantheon is designed like older MMOs, slow leveling make sure that the content will last a year in time for the new expansion.
    Yes, slow leveling is a cheap trick to make content last longer, and yes, many people hate slow leveling, but there are also lots of people that like a slower pace in MMORPGs, and those people will stick around for years if the game is good enough.

    Pantheon is the only game that could sustain a Subscription model as it is built to have players subscribed the whole year, as "beating" the game in a couple of months is not going to be an option.
    Other games that try the Subscription model failed because they didn't have a clue of what they were doing.
    Subscription works only for slow leveling games like EQ, or games with ton of content like WoW.
    Every other game should stick with the Free To Play formula as they don't have enough content to justify a year long subscription.

  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017
    tokini said:
    Dullahan said:
    Kyleran said:

    I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
    interesting, because a while back you tried to imply there were millions of people interested in this sort of game. (i remember you linking an article and *you* claimed 2+ million people have purchased EQ, when it was pointed out that article included the original game and its first 7 expansions , you went silent)  the game is super niche, will be lucky to have 3 low to med pop servers. it might be a great example of what it tries to be, but what its trying to be isnt really desired by many people anymore. why the change of opinion, Dullahan?why have you backed off the Panthaon super success party line?

    we have to admit, this isnt the game people want anymore.  why are 2D platformers all indie niche, low cost games? the gaming world changes. Pantheon may be great at what it does in the end, but it will probably be at Age of Conan levels of population - at best.
    I never claimed, at any time, that Pantheon will have "millions" of concurrent players. I did say there are millions of people who played EQ, and that Pantheon would appeal to many of them.

    That said, 6 months in, there will be more people playing Pantheon who never played EQ than did. There are plenty of people who the game will appeal to who had no idea they'd like it. How could they? Those games were phased out chasing WoW numbers over a decade ago.

    That type of person didn't go away, and most people have no idea whether they'll truly enjoy something until they try it. In fact, many of those skeptical or outright opposed to the game in this very thread will be the biggest junkies.


  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 2017
    DMKano said:
    ste2000 said:

    Mark my words:
    People will move on from Pantheon after 2-6 weeks regardless of how good it is - if it's the best game in history of gaming - your average player will STILL move on after 2-6 weeks.

    Why?
    Because people simply don't play games like they did 15 years ago. 

    This argument of yours always make me smile.
    I don't think you are actually thinking when you say that.
    It seems you elevated yourself as the benchmark for every other MMORPG player.

    15 years ago you were a teenager with lots of time in your hand, now you are a family man with less time.
    Am I correct?

    But guess what....teenagers are still around and have more spare time today than ever.
    In Asia they have to put an artificial cut off time in their games to avoid people playing for days on end, and you are telling me that today people have no time?
    You have no time, don't speak for everyone else.

    The reality is that students, teenagers and young professionals have still plenty of time to dedicate to gaming, and this category account for 70% of the gaming population.
    Are you going to argue with that?

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    ste2000 said:

    Subscription works only for slow leveling games like EQ, or games with ton of content like WoW.
    Every other game should stick with the Free To Play formula as they don't have enough content to justify a year long subscription. 
    The subscription model hasn't "worked" for WoW either - not in the way you imply. A couple of years ago they announced 100M+ accounts; pause and reflect, does this means:
    1. Blizzard has had a loyal following of 5-10M subs for (now) 12 years; or
    2. Blizzard has lost an average of c.8M unique accounts every year for 12 years - was close to 10M when announced. 
    Blizzard hasn't retained subscribers; their success has been to launch the game in new markets; advertise it to new audiences; re-imagine it and more.
     
    Which is a good thing for people waiting for Pantheon - since aiming to create a years worth of content would take the devs years and years.

  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    DMKano said:
    gervaise1 said:
    DMKano said:

    EQ1 is Daybreaks highest populated game they own.
    Comparing Pantheon to P99 is like comparing Apples to Oranges.  
    H1Z1 is far more populated than EQ1 - so you are mistaken.

    Pantheon is heavily based on vanilla EQ1 - which is P99 - there is no other game on the market that is closer to Pantheon than P99  - and yes I am talking about gameplay style, pace of combat, group centric content etc...
    I would have thought DCUO was their best title. Jack Emmert being made CEO would certainly support this.  
    Not even close - Look at steam stats for DCUO, less than 4k players peak, been under 1000 concurrently since march 2015.

    Now I know that steam only shows a portion of playerbase, but the huge disparity between under 1k numbers and greater than 20k H1Z1 numbers ia pretty significant

    H1Z1 is the most popular Daybreak title by far.
    It is indeed: over 44k peak today. Makes Jack Emmert's CEO title even more ridiculous. 
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017

    I think it will be Huge Mungus ;)


    I think it's very hard to see what numbers are going to show up both short term, as it grows ;), and long term. There are just too many unknown factors.

  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 2017
    gervaise1 said:
    ste2000 said:

    The subscription model hasn't "worked" for WoW either - not in the way you imply. A couple of years ago they announced 100M+ accounts; pause and reflect, does this means:
    1. Blizzard has had a loyal following of 5-10M subs for (now) 12 years; or
    2. Blizzard has lost an average of c.8M unique accounts every year for 12 years - was close to 10M when announced. 
    Blizzard hasn't retained subscribers; their success has been to launch the game in new markets; advertise it to new audiences; re-imagine it and more.
     
    Which is a good thing for people waiting for Pantheon - since aiming to create a years worth of content would take the devs years and years.

    So you also noticed that the subscription base shrank together with the leveling curve?
    That just proves my point.

    Early days content in WoW used to last for more than a year, for the average player.
    As the game got easier and leveling got faster, players started running out of content after 6 months, now they can do it in 3 months, though with Legion they tried to revert that trend with discreet success.

    It's really no rocket science; No content = No Subs
    Why would anyone subscribe to a game that runs out of content after 2 months? (it should be an easy question to answer)

    Would you stay subscribed to Netflix if they stop adding Movies to their library?
    My guess is not.
    You stay subscribed because you get fresh content each month.
    Same apply to MMORPGs.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 36,467
    Dullahan said:
    Kyleran said:
    I really dont see how an old school MMO will fly well in 2017 (r whenever this will see the light of day)...Sure there is a niche market for it but will it be big enough to pay the bills?

    I'd like to discuss this,


    - It's been a long time since old school


    - Old school mindset is usually thought as old looking game with old mechanics.


    - People tend to think younger people don't have the time or the brain power to play this style.



    How do you know this style wouldn't start a new rebirth !!!!!!! 
    Anecdotal evidence. My son and his friends (all around 24 yrs old) are all former MMO players cutting their teeth on DAOC, WOW and some others.

    Their current stable of games include LOL, Overwatch and a variety of PS4 games, but no MMORPGs.

    I even tried to entice my son by giving him ESO for Christmas for his new PS4, since he really enjoyed playing Skyrim.

    He decided to start playing Witcher 3 first.

    Young people today seem to have so much more vying for their time then they did years ago, my guess is they really aren't seeking a slower paced, more in depth gaming experience.

    I'd say EVE like success is a more likely aspiration for this or most any other solid indie title.

    But a run away smash hit, little chance of that occurring IMO, too many factors lined up against it at the moment.


    There really is nothing even remotely offering slow paced or deep gaming experience among MMORPGs.

    It's not like there were no sports, consoles games, pc titles, or other real life activities 20 years ago. Neither people nor the surrounding environment have changed. If anything, sitting around playing games is more acceptable today than it was back then. It's just that those MMOs that people pour time into no longer exist in modern form because studios went for mass appeal chasing WoW money.

    I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
    The cultural shift is more then supposition, there are far more entertainment options today then in 2000, all carving away the same 24 hour day.

    I used to regularly read books, magazines, and newspapers back then, now I read ebooks, online news sites, Reddit and of course, my smart phone.

    I also watch over 300 cable channels, Netflix, Prime, go to 3D movies (Real 3D and IMAX) and waste far too much time reading Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.

    Forget Twitter, Snapchat, Twitch and a half a dozen others my children always visit.

    All of these are in addition to the activities available to me back in 2000 so of course some like my photography hobby have suffered.

    While people today have the same amount of time each day now as then, there is so much more vying for our attention.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited January 2017
    Kyleran said:

    The cultural shift is more then supposition, there are far more entertainment options today then in 2000, all carving away the same 24 hour day.

    I used to regularly read books, magazines, and newspapers back then, now I read ebooks, online news sites, Reddit and of course, my smart phone.

    I also watch over 300 cable channels, Netflix, Prime, go to 3D movies (Real 3D and IMAX) and waste far too much time reading Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.

    Forget Twitter, Snapchat, Twitch and a half a dozen others my children always visit.

    All of these are in addition to the activities available to me back in 2000 so of course some like my photography hobby have suffered.

    While people today have the same amount of time each day now as then, there is so much more vying for our attention.
    I disagree. While the medium may have changed with broadband and new technologies, we had more TV than anyone could possibly consume in the '90s. We had more games we could possibly play across multiple consoles since the 80s. There was hunting, fishing, camping, biking, clubbing, dancing, sports and even women... all before the 20-teens.

    People have always had more things to do with their time than they could ever make time for. The choice has always been the same. Do a little of everything or a lot of a few things. The only difference in gaming is that there used to be things dedicated to specific segments rather than everyone. We couldn't play current mmos like we played those of the first generation if we wanted to. There's simply not enough to do, what little there is feels trivial; and as a result the playerbase is too transient to establish a real community.

    The era of niche games is back, and it will be glorious.


  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 2017
    Kyleran said:
    Dullahan said:

    The cultural shift is more then supposition, there are far more entertainment options today then in 2000, all carving away the same 24 hour day.

    It's not a cultural shift....you just got older.
    Older people who still play games are the exception, not the norm.
    Younger people have plenty of time, they frikking live on internet 24/7.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 12,420
    I think in this day and age with more and more monthly expenses, a sub only game is a tough sell in the West for a very large player base. Unless you have a big time IP like Final Fantasy.
    The good thing is, VR understands this and has tempered their expectations to expect a 100 to 200 thousand sub range. Considering this is a brand new IP, a very small budget, a sub only game. I think their 100 to 200 thousand sub range is spot on. Now is the potential there for a much larger sub base?
    Absolutely.
    I would just be very surprised considering the largest sub game now is a 12 year old game made with a big budget and a big time studio.
     

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • XodicXodic Member EpicPosts: 1,148
    Kyleran said:
    Dullahan said:
    Kyleran said:
    I really dont see how an old school MMO will fly well in 2017 (r whenever this will see the light of day)...Sure there is a niche market for it but will it be big enough to pay the bills?

    I'd like to discuss this,


    - It's been a long time since old school


    - Old school mindset is usually thought as old looking game with old mechanics.


    - People tend to think younger people don't have the time or the brain power to play this style.



    How do you know this style wouldn't start a new rebirth !!!!!!! 
    Anecdotal evidence. My son and his friends (all around 24 yrs old) are all former MMO players cutting their teeth on DAOC, WOW and some others.

    Their current stable of games include LOL, Overwatch and a variety of PS4 games, but no MMORPGs.

    I even tried to entice my son by giving him ESO for Christmas for his new PS4, since he really enjoyed playing Skyrim.

    He decided to start playing Witcher 3 first.

    Young people today seem to have so much more vying for their time then they did years ago, my guess is they really aren't seeking a slower paced, more in depth gaming experience.

    I'd say EVE like success is a more likely aspiration for this or most any other solid indie title.

    But a run away smash hit, little chance of that occurring IMO, too many factors lined up against it at the moment.


    There really is nothing even remotely offering slow paced or deep gaming experience among MMORPGs.

    It's not like there were no sports, consoles games, pc titles, or other real life activities 20 years ago. Neither people nor the surrounding environment have changed. If anything, sitting around playing games is more acceptable today than it was back then. It's just that those MMOs that people pour time into no longer exist in modern form because studios went for mass appeal chasing WoW money.

    I don't think anyone (other than maybe the OP) believes a kind of game like Pantheon will draw millions of people, but the idea that it won't do well because there has been some sort of cultural shift away from them is supposition as best. People play other games, because that is what the industry believed to have highest earning potential ... until it no longer did.
    The cultural shift is more then supposition, there are far more entertainment options today then in 2000, all carving away the same 24 hour day.

    I used to regularly read books, magazines, and newspapers back then, now I read ebooks, online news sites, Reddit and of course, my smart phone.

    I also watch over 300 cable channels, Netflix, Prime, go to 3D movies (Real 3D and IMAX) and waste far too much time reading Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn.

    Forget Twitter, Snapchat, Twitch and a half a dozen others my children always visit.

    All of these are in addition to the activities available to me back in 2000 so of course some like my photography hobby have suffered.

    While people today have the same amount of time each day now as then, there is so much more vying for our attention.
    Sounds like the cash shop theory about predatory games designed around ADD symptoms. 

    If you cant occupy your time with things you enjoy before running off to find something else to do, then the activity isn't the problem. 
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,537
    edited January 2017
    Yeesh, too bad this is one of those topics where despite how easy it will be to see who's right by the time the truth comes out (along with the game, assuming it does come out), the joy one would get from saying "I told you so" will have gone stale and rotten for most people.
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