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I'll say it again, Pantheon will be huge

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  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    Aelious said:
    Right and you never addressed the two points.
    What points?

    That KS allows production of products people would have never paid for if sold as regular, released products?
    That popularity of private servers is rather an indication of unwillignless to pay?

    It is better to act like you never said something like that...
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 463
    Gdemami said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    literally, creating a niche of a niche in an environment where competition will be higher in the coming year or two. Ideally, if you're going to carve out a little niche for yourself, you'd like to be the only player in that niche, really.
    That is just a misuse/wrong use of the term.  Aiming for low profits/low playerbase isn't niche, that is a failure.

    It is only on these boards, "the nerds", that are so narrow minded they have tendency to put pretty or less pretty labels on everything.

    Average Joes do not care, they play what they find fun and then it is up to devs whether they can successfully cater to their largest audience.
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    TheScavenger
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    borghive49 said:
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    Getting rich is just a side effect of successfull business and you won't be successful if you ignore your customers and work just for your self-amusement...


  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 463
    edited February 2017
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    Getting rich is just a side effect of successfull business and you won't be successful if you ignore your customers and work just for your self-amusement...


    This game isn't even out yet and you are here dogging it on the forums lol. Maybe you should wait for it to release and see how it does before you pass judgment? I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. By the way I run a successful business and I'm not rich, there is more to life than becoming rich lol. 
    TheScavenger
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    borghive49 said:
    I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. 
    Oh really? Can you actually quote me where I am saying what kind of game I want to play?

    That much to passing judgements...s#%t  indeed.
  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 285
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    Getting rich is just a side effect of successfull business and you won't be successful if you ignore your customers and work just for your self-amusement...


    This game isn't even out yet and you are here dogging it on the forums lol. Maybe you should wait for it to release and see how it does before you pass judgment? I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. By the way I run a successful business and I'm not rich, there is more to life than becoming rich lol. 
    Just do what I did. Gdemami posts add nothing to the discussion and he is just trolling. So to make it easier to read the forum and the posts of the people that are serious about this game, I just expanded my ignore list by one. 
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 463
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. 
    Oh really? Can you actually quote me where I am saying what kind of game I want to play?

    That much to passing judgements...s#%t  indeed.
    Spare me your tripe, your nothing but a big troll here at mmorpg, you downvote almost every post and inject your snarky comments every where, I for one and tired of it. You don't bring anything to the table, except your soulless negative comments,it is exhausting. 
    TheScavenger
  • borghive49borghive49 Member RarePosts: 463
    Mylan12 said:
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    Getting rich is just a side effect of successfull business and you won't be successful if you ignore your customers and work just for your self-amusement...


    This game isn't even out yet and you are here dogging it on the forums lol. Maybe you should wait for it to release and see how it does before you pass judgment? I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. By the way I run a successful business and I'm not rich, there is more to life than becoming rich lol. 
    Just do what I did. Gdemami posts add nothing to the discussion and he is just trolling. So to make it easier to read the forum and the posts of the people that are serious about this game, I just expanded my ignore list by one. 
    Yeah I'm adding him to my ignore list, this guy is a total jerk. I mean look at this profile 500 LOLs that is just awful. 
    TheScavenger
  • AmsaiAmsai Member UncommonPosts: 299
    He apparently has nothing better to do with his time. I myself just cant get enough energy to go to the forums of games I dont play to troll them. If I dont like a game I just dont play it. And I move on. While its true there are no new MMOs that have been launched that I care for and there are several older MMOs that I used to like but are either no longer available or not the same game anymore (FFXI). I still have plenty of single player games I can play and the infrequent online shooter I get roped into by friends. At least until Pantheon comes out. So thats my suggestion Gdemami. Go play something you like. Life is too short to piss it away on a game you dont even care about.


  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited February 2017
    Gdemami said:
    Aelious said:
    Right and you never addressed the two points.
    What points?

    That KS allows production of products people would have never paid for if sold as regular, released products?
    That popularity of private servers is rather an indication of unwillignless to pay?

    It is better to act like you never said something like that...
    See? This is progress! You'll be happy to know I don't need to act like I didn't say those things because I actually didn't ;)

    The popularity of KS/EA/Indie products and the decline of released "standard" titles is indicative of a need for diversity in gameplay models. There is only so far a genre can spread it's earning potential (players) on the same type of product before it can't sustain itself.

    The majority of MMOs are F2P so the argument that willingness to pay as the driving force behind private server popularity doesn't hold much weight. I believe it's a pushback to the changes made to these titles in order to pander to the newer model of MMO gameplay, which as mentioned above has become overdone and overloaded.
  • AubearusAubearus Member UncommonPosts: 1
    wanderica said:
    I agree with this, and to take it one step further, I think the game will be better for it.  Pantheon is supposed to be all about community.  It harkens back to a time when everyone knew who their server's "class clown" was; a time when roleplayers weren't strange to see; and a time when large friend lists meant something.  People simply don't want that anymore.  The new way certainly isn't wrong, but it isn't Pantheon's way.  Dying 3 times and deleveling after taking a week to get level 10 just because you attempted to make it to another capital without a high level escort isn't most peoples' cup of tea these days.  I suspect that many players will try it and discover that this type of game is exactly what they've been missing.  However, many will also see it as outdated and purposefully punishing completely missing the point of Pantheon.  The best it can hope for is to start small and grow steadily over time.  Let the game evolve with the players for a change instead of the other way around.
    I've been watching Patheon for a bit now, but have not committed to support the game yet  simply because of being burned in the past by to good to be true startups. If they can truly bring back an EQ type experience as you say i will certainly jump on board. The last part of your statement about starting small might be incorrect from the fact that there might be a lot of people (such as myself) sitting and watching the progress before they finally jump in and commit. What is the timeline on an alpha rollout?  
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,332
    edited February 2017
    Aelious said:
    The popularity of KS/EA/Indie products and the decline of released "standard" titles is indicative of a need for diversity in gameplay models.
    It isn't, and I explicitely said why.
    Aelious said:
    The majority of MMOs are F2P so the argument that willingness to pay as the driving force behind private server popularity doesn't hold much weight.
    It does since:
    1) Pantheon is not F2P.
    2) Private servers do not have to deal with development costs.
    3) F2P does not mean no income

    Like before, you are still not making any "points"...
  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    Gdemami said:
    Aelious said:
    The popularity of KS/EA/Indie products and the decline of released "standard" titles is indicative of a need for diversity in gameplay models.
    It isn't, and I explicitely said why.
    Aelious said:
    The majority of MMOs are F2P so the argument that willingness to pay as the driving force behind private server popularity doesn't hold much weight.
    It does since:
    1) Pantheon is not F2P.
    2) Private servers do not have to deal with development costs.
    3) F2P does not mean no income

    Like before, you are still not making any "points"...





    I am actually and that point, combining the two concepts, is that there is a player base that would, theoretically, play Pantheon. Does that mean they will? No, nobody knows that but will at some point. 

    It's not negotiable that the current model of MMO gameplay has hit its zenith. Look at the titles coming out that we know of and the growth of current titles. As it is standard models are canabalizing others. New features and meta gameplay are on the horizon. I'm sorry if this hurts the sensibilities of your gameplay of choice but it's been long overdue. Blizzard provided a great run.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 37,891
    edited February 2017
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. 
    Oh really? Can you actually quote me where I am saying what kind of game I want to play?

    That much to passing judgements...s#%t  indeed.
    I don't believe you've actually ever said what sort of games you currently play, or want to play.

    Pretty sure your not interested in doing either. 

    But here's your chance, put up or shut up :p

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing FO76 at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • JacobinJacobin Member RarePosts: 1,009
    edited February 2017
    There was an option for the market to vote with their wallets for Pantheon. It was called kickstarter and it was an embarrassing failure.

    Why would any dev anywhere want to invest in an old school game after looking at that train wreck?

    Meanwhile Asian casinos....err MMOs are creating overnight millionaires.
  • Raidan_EQRaidan_EQ Member UncommonPosts: 247
    edited February 2017
    Jacobin said:
    There was an option for the market to vote with their wallets for Pantheon. It was called kickstarter and it was an embarrassing failure.

    Why would any dev anywhere want to invest in an old school game after looking at that train wreck?

    Meanwhile Asian casinos....err MMOs are creating overnight millionaires.
    The Kickstarter failed because there was nothing to show. Many supporters at the time (me included) were discouraged because of it.  The Kickstarter would have easily suceeded if the Pantheon developers had their first gameplay stream to show. Since approximately 450k was raised on nothing besides a race/class list and some class descriptions shows there was an interest - especially when the first 200-300k was raised very quickly.  There just wasn't enough info available to sustain that momentum and enthusiasm.

    And, currently, Pantheon's community and interest continues to increase because of continued forward progress. Look at the increased traffic across social media platforms, the official site, etc.

    Anyway, also, a return to old-school mechanics does not equate to meaning completely old school remake.  It means taking what worked, improving on it, and leaving the disaster that are current age "MMOs" behind.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 4,035
    edited February 2017
    You guys are giving space to Gdemami talk? Are you guys trying to farm LOL's or something?
    Discord ID: Night # 6102
    Current playing: 
    Elite Dangerous

    "There is a fine line between consideration and hesitation. The former is wisdom, the latter is fear." Izaro Phrecius, Holy Emperor of the Eternal Empire, Last of Royal Phrecius Family.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,534
    edited February 2017
    Jacobin said:
    There was an option for the market to vote with their wallets for Pantheon. It was called kickstarter and it was an embarrassing failure.

    Why would any dev anywhere want to invest in an old school game after looking at that train wreck?

    Meanwhile Asian casinos....err MMOs are creating overnight millionaires.
    You're part right. It was a chance to vote with their wallets, but they did fail to produce a compelling reason for a lot of us to pledge at that time. That has since been rectified by way of videos, streams and a lot more information. Now, people are voting with their wallets on a daily basis, based on the continuous stream of players appearing on the official forums.


  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Gdemami said:
    borghive49 said:
    You realize this is an indie studio right? Maybe getting rich isn't their goal, but just to provide a stable income for themselves while working on something they love to do.
    Getting rich is just a side effect of successfull business and you won't be successful if you ignore your customers and work just for your self-amusement...


    This game isn't even out yet and you are here dogging it on the forums lol. Maybe you should wait for it to release and see how it does before you pass judgment? I can't stand people like you, all you want is the same regurgitated s#%t from MMO developers. By the way I run a successful business and I'm not rich, there is more to life than becoming rich lol. 

    I don't think that's the point. I think that the point is that it won't be huge and the problem with saying it's going to be huge is that you ultimately set it up for failure because when it isn't, then it actually drives people away. Setting realistic expectations sets it up for success. 

    By the way, if you say the thread title, in your head, in a Trump voice, you won't hear it any other way. You've been warned. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 7,964
    edited February 2017
    Me too in that same voice....It's going to be tremendous,bigly god what a sound bite must go scrub my ears out. The moment I hear him on TV I switch channels.

    Chamber of Chains
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,347
    People stuck on Pantheon being modeled off an 18 year old game, so its stuck in the past. Has not been reading much about this MMO. Its going back to Sandbox questing at its roots and real exploring. Old school class interdependency but beyond that. They have some very modern concepts. Even EQ1 fans will have lots to learn to be able to master adventuring in Pantheon.

    Here read the FAQ 
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    The game looks good.  It's one I keep my eye on.  I do not think this will be a WOW killer, however it could be a formal changer game.  If the Formal points to more group focused content without any automated group finder tools you could see the MMO Genera get back the core pillar that MMOs are about and that is the Social aspect.  

    I just wish Pantheon didn't focus on what I consider bad death mechanics.  I would prefer Dark n Light death mechanics because you just have a stock pile of weapons and armor in your bank or storage vs loosening Experience which my opinion is that it is stupid.  It would take you hours to grind back up to max level if you die which could cause you to lose your raid spot.  That is just stupid as all hell.  A game focused on raiding even open world raiding cannot have harsh death penalties.  This is why Vanilla WOW was so successful because Death was not harsh and you could just get back up and try to kill a tough boss again.  You still didnt want to die because it took 10 minutes or so to get everyone rezzed in a 40 man raid.  It didnt cost players their raid spot.  Where WOW failed is they trying to make the game for the 15 a minute a week gamer and fucked their entire product.  Hell even today people are leaving WOW in droves.  

  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,347
    edited February 2017
    Rhoklaw said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    People stuck on Pantheon being modeled off an 18 year old game, so its stuck in the past. Has not been reading much about this MMO. Its going back to Sandbox questing at its roots and real exploring. Old school class interdependency but beyond that. They have some very modern concepts. Even EQ1 fans will have lots to learn to be able to master adventuring in Pantheon.

    Here read the FAQ 
    Well, the core mechanics from EQ actually ARE the prominent features being talked about the most. Such as a wide range of races and classes. Classes being more focused and interdependent of each other. Group content outside of dungeon raids. A more serious death mechanic. A dangerous world.

    Yeah, it certainly does remind me a lot of vanilla EQ. No one is saying it's an EQ clone, but it's definitely it's spiritual successor.
    My post went over your head. My point was as much as they have taken for core values from EQ1, there is still many aspects of the game that they have modernized. Some things not done in any other MMO. This is not an 18 year old game with a new skin as many here in this thread are claiming. 

    FROM THE PANTHEON FAQ:

    It sounds like Pantheon is bringing back a lot of ‘older’ MMO game mechanics. Is Pantheon a clone of older games or a modern MMO?

    Pantheon is most definitely a modern MMO, with modern graphics and new and exciting features and mechanics. There are already emulators out there that are clones of earlier MMOs and Visionary Realms has no desire to make another emulator. That said, we also feel that many of the features and mechanics of previous MMOs have been abandoned in more recent games, resulting in a less challenging, compelling, deep, and social experience. Pantheon, therefore, will indeed bring back some of these ‘older’ mechanics and ideas, but always with a fresh perspective, some tweaks and revisions, and with an understanding that while gamers’ tastes don’t fundamentally change over time, their situations, lives, and responsibilities do. Likewise, some game mechanics often associated with earlier MMOs involve inordinate amounts of downtime, overly severe penalties, too much competition over content and resources, and even downright boring or overly repetitive gameplay. Our intention, therefore, is not to bring back ‘everything’ from the old days, but rather to pick and choose what makes sense and what is needed to make a fun, social, cooperative, and challenging game.


    What will Pantheon feature that is new and different?

    Please check out The Pantheon Difference.

  • Mylan12Mylan12 Member UncommonPosts: 285
    danwest58 said:
    The game looks good.  It's one I keep my eye on.  I do not think this will be a WOW killer, however it could be a formal changer game.  If the Formal points to more group focused content without any automated group finder tools you could see the MMO Genera get back the core pillar that MMOs are about and that is the Social aspect.  

    I just wish Pantheon didn't focus on what I consider bad death mechanics.  I would prefer Dark n Light death mechanics because you just have a stock pile of weapons and armor in your bank or storage vs loosening Experience which my opinion is that it is stupid.  It would take you hours to grind back up to max level if you die which could cause you to lose your raid spot.  That is just stupid as all hell.  A game focused on raiding even open world raiding cannot have harsh death penalties.  This is why Vanilla WOW was so successful because Death was not harsh and you could just get back up and try to kill a tough boss again.  You still didnt want to die because it took 10 minutes or so to get everyone rezzed in a 40 man raid.  It didnt cost players their raid spot.  Where WOW failed is they trying to make the game for the 15 a minute a week gamer and fucked their entire product.  Hell even today people are leaving WOW in droves.  

     I not sure if you played early EQ or not but the death penalty sounds a lot worse than it really was.
    If you had a wipe in raid, as the zone was cleared up to where you died, you just has a cleric run back in and res everyone. It didn't take that long.
     Another option was if at least one cleric could get a res spell off on another res able player and they could just wait till everyone was dead and the mobs left and then accept the res. 
     What it did do is make you be more careful especially when alone. You could not just run into a dungeon or raid zone solo just to be doing it without risking death and a difficult corpse recovery. At least most classes could not. Even then it was not difficult to find a necromancer to summon your corpse to the zone entrance.
     The experience loss with a res was never that noticeable. Without a res, you could tell that you died. It was never that hard to find a cleric to res you. Unless you had just leveled, you never were in danger of losing a level.  
     I not sure what this game will do for a death penalty. But even if they go with an early EQ style death penalty, I am sure they have a way for you to at least recovery you equipment if you can't recovery your corpse.
     I don't see the death penalty being more harsh than early EQ and if so I don't understand the worry. 
  • danwest58danwest58 Member RarePosts: 2,012
    Mylan12 said:
    danwest58 said:
    The game looks good.  It's one I keep my eye on.  I do not think this will be a WOW killer, however it could be a formal changer game.  If the Formal points to more group focused content without any automated group finder tools you could see the MMO Genera get back the core pillar that MMOs are about and that is the Social aspect.  

    I just wish Pantheon didn't focus on what I consider bad death mechanics.  I would prefer Dark n Light death mechanics because you just have a stock pile of weapons and armor in your bank or storage vs loosening Experience which my opinion is that it is stupid.  It would take you hours to grind back up to max level if you die which could cause you to lose your raid spot.  That is just stupid as all hell.  A game focused on raiding even open world raiding cannot have harsh death penalties.  This is why Vanilla WOW was so successful because Death was not harsh and you could just get back up and try to kill a tough boss again.  You still didnt want to die because it took 10 minutes or so to get everyone rezzed in a 40 man raid.  It didnt cost players their raid spot.  Where WOW failed is they trying to make the game for the 15 a minute a week gamer and fucked their entire product.  Hell even today people are leaving WOW in droves.  

     I not sure if you played early EQ or not but the death penalty sounds a lot worse than it really was.
    If you had a wipe in raid, as the zone was cleared up to where you died, you just has a cleric run back in and res everyone. It didn't take that long.
     Another option was if at least one cleric could get a res spell off on another res able player and they could just wait till everyone was dead and the mobs left and then accept the res. 
     What it did do is make you be more careful especially when alone. You could not just run into a dungeon or raid zone solo just to be doing it without risking death and a difficult corpse recovery. At least most classes could not. Even then it was not difficult to find a necromancer to summon your corpse to the zone entrance.
     The experience loss with a res was never that noticeable. Without a res, you could tell that you died. It was never that hard to find a cleric to res you. Unless you had just leveled, you never were in danger of losing a level.  
     I not sure what this game will do for a death penalty. But even if they go with an early EQ style death penalty, I am sure they have a way for you to at least recovery you equipment if you can't recovery your corpse.
     I don't see the death penalty being more harsh than early EQ and if so I don't understand the worry. 
    I didnt play EQ2, i did play FFXI though which I can tell you from experience that losing EXP when I died was a bitch, there were times we had people that sucked so bad people lost several levels and that pissed people off.  Often made them quit.   If they did that with WOW raiding people would have stopped raiding.  

    My personal feeling is if there is a way to res the group without them dying again and EXP loss was 1% or 2% thats one thing.  I have heard of people from EQ2 that came to Vanilla WOW raiding that hated having too many people lose EXP that they had to disband the raid for a week or more until people got back up to level.  Thats why when they got to WOW they stayed in WOW.  Now Yes Death has to hurt, but I think there are better ways of doing that.  Expensive repair bills in early WOW was one where our group didnt try Rag because our tanks didnt have 250 Fire Resist and people didnt want repair bills.  
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