Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

PANTHEON Twitch Stream Review : Impressed

1678911

Comments

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
  • FeyshteyFeyshtey Member UncommonPosts: 137
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 

    -Feyshtey-

  • MexenlivesMexenlives Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Ah, downtime.  The concept of not being able to play the game in between periods of playing the game while playing the game.

    If they add "activities" to do during down time (like, I don't know, playing a mini-game to regenerate mana faster), it's no longer really downtime anyways.  At most, it'll just be awkward.  And if down time was there to facilitate chatting, I'd think most people would rather go to a chat room to chat if they wanted to chat, rather than play a game that makes them chat just because they need something to do during "downtime".  So I don't really see the point.  I think when most people play a game, they play that game to play that game, not to sit on their ass or play an alternate mini-game or have nothing to do but chat for whatever amount of time.

    But then, that's why Pantheon will be niche, I suppose.
    The point is when you remove downtime, everything becomes less dangerous. No need to worry about repops, roamers, properly paced pulls, or managing mana for peak efficiency. Without downtime, there would simply be less tension or excitement in combat.
    I'd rather constantly be IN exciting combat than be excited by the prospect of combat MAYBE starting before I'm ready because I'm in the middle of downtime, and I'm sure the vast majority of players feel the same way.

    But not everyone does, as made clear by some posters in this thread.  So Pantheon has its niche there.

    ....hopefully, for their sake, of course.
    Having to recouperate from battle or make preperations is something some want, sure.  Myself included.  I don't think it should have an equal share of time but it should matter.  Think The Witcher series in a group setting.  Medtation/Prepping/Toxicity.  It's a cool idea that could really benefit in a game where groups are to be integral to taking on the content.
  • MexenlivesMexenlives Member UncommonPosts: 42
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Ah, downtime.  The concept of not being able to play the game in between periods of playing the game while playing the game.

    If they add "activities" to do during down time (like, I don't know, playing a mini-game to regenerate mana faster), it's no longer really downtime anyways.  At most, it'll just be awkward.  And if down time was there to facilitate chatting, I'd think most people would rather go to a chat room to chat if they wanted to chat, rather than play a game that makes them chat just because they need something to do during "downtime".  So I don't really see the point.  I think when most people play a game, they play that game to play that game, not to sit on their ass or play an alternate mini-game or have nothing to do but chat for whatever amount of time.

    But then, that's why Pantheon will be niche, I suppose.
    The point is when you remove downtime, everything becomes less dangerous. No need to worry about repops, roamers, properly paced pulls, or managing mana for peak efficiency. Without downtime, there would simply be less tension or excitement in combat.
    I think we are at a point in MMO's that introducing group mechanics around downtime would be beneficial.  All those tradeskills along the lines of cooking/baking/meditate/song/sleep could be implemented into the leveling experience.  

    Quick example.  

    Group clears one spot of a dungeon.  Time to rest a minute.  Make a fire, do some cooking.   Share some lore.  Med/sleep to get a buff that regains STA and Mana.  Eating food creates health regen.  Drink for mana.  
    Reduce stress by playing games like cards or dice.  This could all be done in 5-10 real world minutes.  

    To me, there is no reason that certain crafting skills have to be an "extra."  They can be baked (pun intended) right into the group campaign.  
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2017
    Feyshtey said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 
    I've played tons of MMORPGs where I've had to stop and discuss the plan of attack because it mattered.

    Absolutely none of them involved or required a long downtime in between normal battles for that.

    You speak as if downtime magically makes people more interactive as they stop to discuss strategies for battles without realizing that any MMORPG (or any game with group play in general) that has a difficult upcoming battle results in players doing so.

    Also, talking in the middle of battle exists too, you know.  Lots of MMORPGs, I've been discussing the upcoming battle with my guild while in the middle of a current one in a difficult raid or even for normal dungeons depending on how hard the MMO was in question.  Again, no downtime was needed for this.

    This is one of those "Have you been living under a rock all this time" kind of things, because you seem to exist in this strange world where none of the current MMOs existing today have any group interaction or people discussing strategies and tactics, and Pantheon will magically make people start doing so, when the truth is many MMOs today still involve LOTS of discussing tactics for lots of things in my experience.  All without needing all these strange magic pill solutions like "downtime" to make them do so.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Tiamat64 said:
    Feyshtey said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 
    I've played tons of MMORPGs where I've had to stop and discuss the plan of attack because it mattered.

    Absolutely none of them involved or required a long downtime in between normal battles for that.

    You speak as if downtime magically makes people more interactive as they stop to discuss strategies for battles without realizing that any MMORPG (or any game with group play in general) that has a difficult upcoming battle results in players doing so.

    Also, talking in the middle of battle exists too, you know.  Lots of MMORPGs, I've been discussing the upcoming battle with my guild while in the middle of a current one in a difficult raid or even for normal dungeons depending on how hard the MMO was in question.  Again, no downtime was needed for this.

    This is one of those "Have you been living under a rock all this time" kind of things, because you seem to exist in this strange world where none of the current MMOs existing today have any group interaction or people discussing strategies and tactics, and Pantheon will magically make people start doing so, when the truth is many MMOs today still involve LOTS of discussing tactics for lots of things in my experience.  All without needing all these strange magic pill solutions like "downtime" to make them do so.
    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.


  • HexipoxHexipox Member UncommonPosts: 241
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Feyshtey said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 
    I've played tons of MMORPGs where I've had to stop and discuss the plan of attack because it mattered.

    Absolutely none of them involved or required a long downtime in between normal battles for that.

    You speak as if downtime magically makes people more interactive as they stop to discuss strategies for battles without realizing that any MMORPG (or any game with group play in general) that has a difficult upcoming battle results in players doing so.

    Also, talking in the middle of battle exists too, you know.  Lots of MMORPGs, I've been discussing the upcoming battle with my guild while in the middle of a current one in a difficult raid or even for normal dungeons depending on how hard the MMO was in question.  Again, no downtime was needed for this.

    This is one of those "Have you been living under a rock all this time" kind of things, because you seem to exist in this strange world where none of the current MMOs existing today have any group interaction or people discussing strategies and tactics, and Pantheon will magically make people start doing so, when the truth is many MMOs today still involve LOTS of discussing tactics for lots of things in my experience.  All without needing all these strange magic pill solutions like "downtime" to make them do so.
    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.
    Agreed. Currently I play ESO and I hardly got any friends because I don't need them, groupe content being veteran is so freaking easy. 8/10 times I join a grp via tool and say "hi" only 1-2 will brother reply to it... i have a rl friend playing too and we never play together as there is no content everything is solo or easy group content even raids.. yes vet raids req some strats and copping... but ye mostly you in a zone and you type +mino to join a non talking grp killing a boss which disband the second it dies with no one saying thanks or good job... 

    also play swtor kinda same here but little more content for groups but not anyone talking or replaying when u try...

    feels stupid! Miss EQ socialization so much, making valuable friends, have a laugh in chat, guild friends that help when help is needed... 
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:

    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.
    Just because you say something doesn't make it true. You probably haven't gotten to any "end-game" guild in any MMORPG lately to make that original statement about how no one discusses strategies anymore.  Hence why you are living under a rock.

    Ask any veteran WoW player if they need to talk with their guild about raid strategies a lot.  Or Archeage players discussing how to take down the leviathan or prepare for a siege.  Or hell, even in a friggin' BROWSER game right now I'm discussing with my guild constantly about how to tackle the next guild we're about to fight in an upcoming daily guild war every single day.

    The interaction is there.  You're just not playing MMOs enough to ever reach it.  Instead you're like that "In my day, we had to walk uphill in the snow barefoot" old man ranting type, acting as if all those time-wasting aspects of old school MMOs magically fostered special interactions which will be the next huge thing when even Pantheon's developers don't expect the game to have a huge audience.

    But whatever.  It's probably better you keep thinking that mindset.  It'd make it all the more enjoyable to see you proven wrong if Pantheon ever does come out.  Or at least, it would if it were really worth caring about that much but as it is, it's so blatantly obvious to most people anyways (including like, every MMO developer ever considering that there's a reason they don't make games like that anymore) that I'm pretty sure I''ll  just personally say "Well, yea." and that'll be that.
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon Member EpicPosts: 3,465
    Tiamat64 said:
    Feyshtey said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 
    I've played tons of MMORPGs where I've had to stop and discuss the plan of attack because it mattered.

    Absolutely none of them involved or required a long downtime in between normal battles for that.

    You speak as if downtime magically makes people more interactive as they stop to discuss strategies for battles without realizing that any MMORPG (or any game with group play in general) that has a difficult upcoming battle results in players doing so.

    Also, talking in the middle of battle exists too, you know.  Lots of MMORPGs, I've been discussing the upcoming battle with my guild while in the middle of a current one in a difficult raid or even for normal dungeons depending on how hard the MMO was in question.  Again, no downtime was needed for this.

    This is one of those "Have you been living under a rock all this time" kind of things, because you seem to exist in this strange world where none of the current MMOs existing today have any group interaction or people discussing strategies and tactics, and Pantheon will magically make people start doing so, when the truth is many MMOs today still involve LOTS of discussing tactics for lots of things in my experience.  All without needing all these strange magic pill solutions like "downtime" to make them do so.


    What I don't understand is why do you care how this mmo pans out, it's obviously not for you. You can go round and round but you aren't going to change how it works or the devs idea of how they want this game to work. Seems to me you are angry because they don't share your interpretation of socialising in mmo's. 

    I really don't understand why it bothers you lol. 




  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    Hexipox said:
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Feyshtey said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:
    And I think you're grossly underestimating the appeal of an MMORPG with a dangerous and unforgiving world.
    And I think you're grossly overestimating it.  But making a reply just to point out that you think something isn't really contributing much evidence to support it (and thus, to the discussion).
    I think you're disregarding the enjoyment of stopping to discuss the plan of attack because it matters, instead of games that promote the Leroy Jenkins style of gameplay that still result in success. 
    I've played tons of MMORPGs where I've had to stop and discuss the plan of attack because it mattered.

    Absolutely none of them involved or required a long downtime in between normal battles for that.

    You speak as if downtime magically makes people more interactive as they stop to discuss strategies for battles without realizing that any MMORPG (or any game with group play in general) that has a difficult upcoming battle results in players doing so.

    Also, talking in the middle of battle exists too, you know.  Lots of MMORPGs, I've been discussing the upcoming battle with my guild while in the middle of a current one in a difficult raid or even for normal dungeons depending on how hard the MMO was in question.  Again, no downtime was needed for this.

    This is one of those "Have you been living under a rock all this time" kind of things, because you seem to exist in this strange world where none of the current MMOs existing today have any group interaction or people discussing strategies and tactics, and Pantheon will magically make people start doing so, when the truth is many MMOs today still involve LOTS of discussing tactics for lots of things in my experience.  All without needing all these strange magic pill solutions like "downtime" to make them do so.
    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.
    Agreed. Currently I play ESO and I hardly got any friends because I don't need them, groupe content being veteran is so freaking easy. 8/10 times I join a grp via tool and say "hi" only 1-2 will brother reply to it... i have a rl friend playing too and we never play together as there is no content everything is solo or easy group content even raids.. yes vet raids req some strats and copping... but ye mostly you in a zone and you type +mino to join a non talking grp killing a boss which disband the second it dies with no one saying thanks or good job... 

    also play swtor kinda same here but little more content for groups but not anyone talking or replaying when u try...

    feels stupid! Miss EQ socialization so much, making valuable friends, have a laugh in chat, guild friends that help when help is needed... 

    A lot of people who play MMORPGS these days are people, that have played a lot of them in the last 10 or more years. A lot of those people have had a lot of conversations and has spoken a lot when they first started out gaming.

     Ever notice when a new gamer joins your guild in an MMORPG? How they tend to chat a lot at first, then turn more quiet later on?

     The silence you notice now, can indicate that you are with experienced oldtimer players.

    Notice how when a game is new, a lot of people talk, how a lot of us love that initial honeymoon in a game, the rush it gives, because the whole server is buzzing? full of life?
    Then when the novelty wears of for most players, it turns all quiet?

    Its mostly not the games that makes people talk or not. If EQ1 or EQ2 came out today, those games would show same pattern as todays games.
    That would be my guess.



     
     
     

     
  • HexipoxHexipox Member UncommonPosts: 241
    TENTING said:

    A lot of people who play MMORPGS these days are people, that have played a lot of them in the last 10 or more years. A lot of those people have had a lot of conversations and has spoken a lot when they first started out gaming.

     Ever notice when a new gamer joins your guild in an MMORPG? How they tend to chat a lot at first, then turn more quiet later on? 

     The silence you notice now, can indicate that you are with experienced oldtimer players.

    Notice how when a game is new, a lot of people talk, how a lot of us love that initial honeymoon in a game, the rush it gives, because the whole server is buzzing? full of life? 
    Then when the novelty wears of for most players, it turns all quiet? 

    Its mostly not the games that makes people talk or not. If EQ1 or EQ2 came out today, those games would show same pattern as todays games. 
    That would be my guess.
     
    You might be right, but the eager to help one another has died out totally, try get help for a quest where you are on a stage before others, no one goes: hey lest start at your stage and work forward... if there is no benefit for people they tend to ignore you, but if the are on same stage, or need an item or anything then they reply. 

    I just miss the whole socialization EQ had for 4 years I played, even when everyone was veteran people rushed to help, because they also needed help etc. heck I remember people spending hours for me to get last boss down on Druid epic, probably 6 hours straight 45 people.. none gained from it aside the small chance the boss dropped a cloake of flames...

    i miss that... hope this game brings this back to us old timers ;)
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:

    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.
    Just because you say something doesn't make it true. You probably haven't gotten to any "end-game" guild in any MMORPG lately to make that original statement about how no one discusses strategies anymore.  Hence why you are living under a rock.

    Ask any veteran WoW player if they need to talk with their guild about raid strategies a lot.  Or Archeage players discussing how to take down the leviathan or prepare for a siege.  Or hell, even in a friggin' BROWSER game right now I'm discussing with my guild constantly about how to tackle the next guild we're about to fight in an upcoming daily guild war every single day.

    The interaction is there.  You're just not playing MMOs enough to ever reach it.  Instead you're like that "In my day, we had to walk uphill in the snow barefoot" old man ranting type, acting as if all those time-wasting aspects of old school MMOs magically fostered special interactions which will be the next huge thing when even Pantheon's developers don't expect the game to have a huge audience.

    But whatever.  It's probably better you keep thinking that mindset.  It'd make it all the more enjoyable to see you proven wrong if Pantheon ever does come out.  Or at least, it would if it were really worth caring about that much but as it is, it's so blatantly obvious to most people anyways (including like, every MMO developer ever considering that there's a reason they don't make games like that anymore) that I'm pretty sure I''ll  just personally say "Well, yea." and that'll be that.
    The fact that, to you, interaction is something you have to "reach", proves the point I was making better than I could have. That used to be the kind of thing that existed from day one. This new normal is something you've excepted and become indoctrinated in.

    That really isn't what we're looking for with Pantheon. We want something that encourages that from the moment you walk outside of your starter city with your rusty short sword.


  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    edited January 2017
    Hexipox said:
    TENTING said:

    A lot of people who play MMORPGS these days are people, that have played a lot of them in the last 10 or more years. A lot of those people have had a lot of conversations and has spoken a lot when they first started out gaming.

     Ever notice when a new gamer joins your guild in an MMORPG? How they tend to chat a lot at first, then turn more quiet later on? 

     The silence you notice now, can indicate that you are with experienced oldtimer players.

    Notice how when a game is new, a lot of people talk, how a lot of us love that initial honeymoon in a game, the rush it gives, because the whole server is buzzing? full of life? 
    Then when the novelty wears of for most players, it turns all quiet? 

    Its mostly not the games that makes people talk or not. If EQ1 or EQ2 came out today, those games would show same pattern as todays games. 
    That would be my guess.
     
    You might be right, but the eager to help one another has died out totally, try get help for a quest where you are on a stage before others, no one goes: hey lest start at your stage and work forward... if there is no benefit for people they tend to ignore you, but if the are on same stage, or need an item or anything then they reply. 

    I just miss the whole socialization EQ had for 4 years I played, even when everyone was veteran people rushed to help, because they also needed help etc. heck I remember people spending hours for me to get last boss down on Druid epic, probably 6 hours straight 45 people.. none gained from it aside the small chance the boss dropped a cloake of flames...

    i miss that... hope this game brings this back to us old timers ;)

    Id love that to happen also. I too miss when the MMORPG world was new. It was an amazing time.

     I cant say, that I think its the later games designs that are at fault though. Not exclusively atleast, since I will admit some games have been challenging players interactions more than others.

    However one of the things I see, apart from what I already mentioned, is that a lot of veteran gamers did not leave gaming when they finished their first MMORPG.

     And over time, their growing silence when entering new games, influence new players joining the same games.

     Humans are kind of designed to conform to our surroundings, so if people around us are silent, we stop talking and turn silent too.   
     
    A lot of misunderstandings have over time emerged from that, like the notion that people are more selfish and solominded than we/they were previously, but I really think part of it, is because the new crowd conforms faster to the old crowd, who no longer have much to say.

    The less social we are, the less happiness (for a lot of people), and trying to help someone, when you feel like a wet paperbag just autopiloting along, in a bit of a zombiestate, it often leads to "cba".

     I think the way we game now, have to be revolutionized to be able to wake people up again.

    If the gaming industry choose not to do that, we will be at a stalemate between consumer and developers for a long time.

    My own idea, which certainly isnt really my own idea, so maybe I should rather say, my own personal belief is, that once VR and the gadgets produced along with it becomes succesfull, we will get this revolution.

    So hang in there, something is bound to happen, its just a bit of a waiting game for the time being. :)  


     
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    Dullahan said:
    Tiamat64 said:
    Dullahan said:

    Funny you mention living under a rock, because what you claim exists is quite obviously the exception and not the rule. Interaction in mmorpgs is currently at an all-time low, and no amount of claiming otherwise will change that reality.
    Just because you say something doesn't make it true. You probably haven't gotten to any "end-game" guild in any MMORPG lately to make that original statement about how no one discusses strategies anymore.  Hence why you are living under a rock.

    Ask any veteran WoW player if they need to talk with their guild about raid strategies a lot.  Or Archeage players discussing how to take down the leviathan or prepare for a siege.  Or hell, even in a friggin' BROWSER game right now I'm discussing with my guild constantly about how to tackle the next guild we're about to fight in an upcoming daily guild war every single day.

    The interaction is there.  You're just not playing MMOs enough to ever reach it.  Instead you're like that "In my day, we had to walk uphill in the snow barefoot" old man ranting type, acting as if all those time-wasting aspects of old school MMOs magically fostered special interactions which will be the next huge thing when even Pantheon's developers don't expect the game to have a huge audience.

    But whatever.  It's probably better you keep thinking that mindset.  It'd make it all the more enjoyable to see you proven wrong if Pantheon ever does come out.  Or at least, it would if it were really worth caring about that much but as it is, it's so blatantly obvious to most people anyways (including like, every MMO developer ever considering that there's a reason they don't make games like that anymore) that I'm pretty sure I''ll  just personally say "Well, yea." and that'll be that.
    The fact that, to you, interaction is something you have to "reach", proves the point I was making better than I could have. That used to be the kind of thing that existed from day one. This new normal is something you've excepted and become indoctrinated in.

    That really isn't what we're looking for with Pantheon. We want something that encourages that from the moment you walk outside of your starter city with your rusty short sword.
    In all fairness what you are looking for in Pantheon already exists in the genre. What changed was the player base's mindset. Not the design of the games that are played. 
    There are plenty of games that cater to the group first mentality.
     Even Everquest and Asheron's Call had solo builds and the ability to solo content.
    What Pantheon is offering is not unique nor funded well enough to warrant a considerable change to the genre.
    Mob A.I. looks the same as in other games in the genre and that is where the real change needs to take place to evolve the genre and require a real step up in challenge and group coordination.
    Good thing is, there are a few games in development that will take the genre to the next level and leave the relic games in the rear view.
    I hope for Pantheon's fans the game is a success but it is just a game.
     Not the savior for the genre. 

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • rounnerrounner Member UncommonPosts: 722
    How did this get polarised into a saviour or sucks argument?
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    rounner said:
    How did this get polarised into a saviour or sucks argument?
    It didn't

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 7,470
    edited January 2017
    I suppose now when you have downtime people will surf the internet on their phone or proceed to use other devices while waiting. I am very sceptical the downtime will translate into much more interaction. People have often boasted in the past of watching a movie while playing an MMORPG. I doubt you can really change people and their habits and people are more used to multitasking than ever. I myself never sit still any more I usually have an audiobook in my ear so even though  Everquest was my first game in this genre I myself have changed in the way I interact in these games and I doubt I am alone in this regard.

    Having said that I don't discount that more interaction will occur just that it may not be as intense nor as much as  what it was in Everquest.

    It is also untrue to say people do not discuss strategy in games any more because my son who uses his voice chat a lot is always giving instructions in FFXIV and in some other games and they even have arguments on why they lost and how to change what they do. So perhaps the medium has changed too ,people are interacting more in voice chat. I do poorly at typing and playing and more prone to mistakes when I do so I tend to be quiet when we are fighting. Chances are many guilds will be using voice chat in Everquest too so again a change from how it was in Everquest .

  • HexipoxHexipox Member UncommonPosts: 241
    kitarad said:
    I suppose now when you have downtime people will surf the internet on their phone or proceed to use other devices while waiting. I am very sceptical the downtime will translate into much more interaction. People have often boasted in the past of watching a movie while playing an MMORPG. I doubt you can really change people and their habits and people are more used to multitasking than ever. I myself never sit still any more I usually have an audiobook in my ear so even though  Everquest was my first game in this genre I myself have changed in the way I interact in these games and I doubt I am alone in this regard.

    Having said that I don't discount that more interaction will occur just that it may not be as intense nor as much as  what it was in Everquest.

    It is also untrue to say people do not discuss strategy in games any more because my son who uses his voice chat a lot is always giving instructions in FFXIV and in some other games and they even have arguments on why they lost and how to change what they do. So perhaps the medium has changed too ,people are interacting more in voice chat. I do poorly at typing and playing and more prone to mistakes when I do so I tend to be quiet when we are fighting. Chances are many guilds will be using voice chat in Everquest too so again a change from how it was in Everquest .
    They have said they support voice chat in game - at least for groups. So I guess they are aware of the changes :)
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    edited January 2017

    In all fairness what you are looking for in Pantheon already exists in the genre. What changed was the player base's mindset. Not the design of the games that are played. 
    There are plenty of games that cater to the group first mentality.
     Even Everquest and Asheron's Call had solo builds and the ability to solo content.
    What Pantheon is offering is not unique nor funded well enough to warrant a considerable change to the genre.
    Mob A.I. looks the same as in other games in the genre and that is where the real change needs to take place to evolve the genre and require a real step up in challenge and group coordination.
    Good thing is, there are a few games in development that will take the genre to the next level and leave the relic games in the rear view.
    I hope for Pantheon's fans the game is a success but it is just a game.
     Not the savior for the genre. 

    You can't be serious. Do you really not know or remember that in Everquest, everything from buying and selling, to traveling, to healing, to gaining experience and items, to recovering one's corpse, to exp recovery and more, were all designed to require interdependence? Almost none of those components exist in modern games in any similar form. That it's only the player's mindset couldn't be further from the truth.

    It almost sounds like you haven't played an MMORPG that existed prior to 2010.

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Pantheon would be the savior of the genre, but pretending Pantheon is no different from games that "already exists in the genre", just makes you sound uninformed.


  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    cura said:
    I more or less like everything about the game but the combat. I mean, fighting single trash mobs seems like its not harder then current wow facerolling, but is just a looot slower. Whats the point? I can see it working in dungeons, in final build when all skills, enounter mechanics etc etc are fully implemented, but five people beating poor random trash mob in the world for several seconds doesnt look very entertaining. In my book you either make fight interesting, or short. Well, maybe its alpha version thing or didnt get something. Just a thought.
    It doesn't have to be trash,even the normal everyday mobs can be tough if the dev gives them good AI.

    Example sleep spells that might sleep your healer,stuns that might stun your tank for 10 seconds unable to use his provoke/shouts,perhaps AOE that damages all melee that forces healer to heal several therefor  taking hate.
    There are LOTS of scenarios where by everyday hack n slash can be challenging,yes even for mages,it is all up to the system designers and available options...skills/spells etc etc.

    That is why i detest Wow clones,going from yellow marker to yellow marker then some mark on a map tells me where to go then i begin killing totally useless mobs i could kill in my sleep.It all comes down to a very i ndepth game,from resistances,to lots of choices for not only gear but spells and abilities.The fine line is drawn if we end up with 5 hotbars of mess on the screen.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,545
    edited January 2017
    Wizardry said:
    It doesn't have to be trash,even the normal everyday mobs can be tough if the dev gives them good AI.

    Example sleep spells that might sleep your healer,stuns that might stun your tank for 10 seconds unable to use his provoke/shouts,perhaps AOE that damages all melee that forces healer to heal several therefor  taking hate.
    There are LOTS of scenarios where by everyday hack n slash can be challenging,yes even for mages,it is all up to the system designers and available options...skills/spells etc etc.
    Allegedly the developers for Everquest (at least, I think it was Everquest) actually developed an AI that did that.

    It ended up being waaaaaay too difficult, so they toned it down.

    The thing is, tab-target MMO combat isn't rocket science.  Developing an AI that executes everyting perfectly to destroy its opponents boils down to some rather simplistic mathematical equations in the end.  Too perfectly, which is apparently why no one does it.

    IMHO, the more important factor in making combat fun is determining what the player can do, not what the AI can do against the player.  The latter ends up restricting the player in most cases, which is the opposite of fun (as the developers quickly found out when they initially tinkered with more advanced AIs)

    If it's anything like how Everquest gradually nerfed most combat options the players had, it seems like Pantheon's going to restrict the former.  Oh well, yet another reason why it'll be "niche".
  • JinxysJinxys Member UncommonPosts: 484
    I went over this stream a few nights ago after I saw this post. And I must say. I was actually pleasantly surprised at how far they've come along. I couldn't help hear when Brad in the steam mentioned about "Solo content" .  As someone on an Oceanic timezone with extremely weird play hours to my US friends. That was one thing that worried me in this game. That I'd end up floundering around on my own during the off hours.

    I'm certainly not expecting a full blown "Solo experience" But definitely interested to see how much will be added into the game. There will always be times you won't be able to find a group or friends are offline etc.

    Following this game and I sincerely hope it does well. Even if I don't end up playing it.

    -Jinxy
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:

    In all fairness what you are looking for in Pantheon already exists in the genre. What changed was the player base's mindset. Not the design of the games that are played. 
    There are plenty of games that cater to the group first mentality.
     Even Everquest and Asheron's Call had solo builds and the ability to solo content.
    What Pantheon is offering is not unique nor funded well enough to warrant a considerable change to the genre.
    Mob A.I. looks the same as in other games in the genre and that is where the real change needs to take place to evolve the genre and require a real step up in challenge and group coordination.
    Good thing is, there are a few games in development that will take the genre to the next level and leave the relic games in the rear view.
    I hope for Pantheon's fans the game is a success but it is just a game.
     Not the savior for the genre. 

    You can't be serious. Do you really not know or remember that in Everquest, everything from buying and selling, to traveling, to healing, to gaining experience and items, to recovering one's corpse, to exp recovery and more, were all designed to require interdependence? Almost none of those components exist in modern games in any similar form. That it's only the player's mindset couldn't be further from the truth.

    It almost sounds like you haven't played an MMORPG that existed prior to 2010.

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Pantheon would be the savior of the genre, but pretending Pantheon is no different from games that "already exists in the genre", just makes you sound uninformed.
    You can't be serious.

    You mean all those things that are in Gloria Victis and Project Gorgon?

    Condescension once more from you. For being a champion of the game you are way too defensive about it. Makes you sound like an elitist and/or just pompous.

    My first MMORPG was Lineage. I still play with my brother over VPN back home in Songpa.
    My second MMO was Asheron's Call. A game I consider the greatest in the genre's history.

    I notice you conveniently left out any regard to the mob A.I. in Pantheon because as we all know and have seen it is the same old weak A.I. that has been present in MMO's since the old school games.

    There are a few in development that will blow you away with what they are doing and how they are approaching A.I.
    It makes all the difference.
    Cloud based analytical A.I. with predictive behavior habits is something you will see as early as late 2018.
    I didn't put word in your mouth I was calling it like I see it. Yet you put words in my mouth? tsk tsk ;)
    You carry on hero. Fight the good fight!
    Cheers!


     

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • AeliousAelious Member RarePosts: 3,521
    edited January 2017
    Dullahan said:

    In all fairness what you are looking for in Pantheon already exists in the genre. What changed was the player base's mindset. Not the design of the games that are played. 
    There are plenty of games that cater to the group first mentality.
     Even Everquest and Asheron's Call had solo builds and the ability to solo content.
    What Pantheon is offering is not unique nor funded well enough to warrant a considerable change to the genre.
    Mob A.I. looks the same as in other games in the genre and that is where the real change needs to take place to evolve the genre and require a real step up in challenge and group coordination.
    Good thing is, there are a few games in development that will take the genre to the next level and leave the relic games in the rear view.
    I hope for Pantheon's fans the game is a success but it is just a game.
     Not the savior for the genre. 

    You can't be serious. Do you really not know or remember that in Everquest, everything from buying and selling, to traveling, to healing, to gaining experience and items, to recovering one's corpse, to exp recovery and more, were all designed to require interdependence? Almost none of those components exist in modern games in any similar form. That it's only the player's mindset couldn't be further from the truth.

    It almost sounds like you haven't played an MMORPG that existed prior to 2010.

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Pantheon would be the savior of the genre, but pretending Pantheon is no different from games that "already exists in the genre", just makes you sound uninformed.

    Yeah I'd seriously like to know where the "plenty" of other newer PvE MMOs are that have a majority of group based content, because I've been looking ;) Other than EQ or P99 what I see are titles with 5-10% of instanced dungeons or those that are PvP based.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 13,436
    Aelious said:
    Dullahan said:

    In all fairness what you are looking for in Pantheon already exists in the genre. What changed was the player base's mindset. Not the design of the games that are played. 
    There are plenty of games that cater to the group first mentality.
     Even Everquest and Asheron's Call had solo builds and the ability to solo content.
    What Pantheon is offering is not unique nor funded well enough to warrant a considerable change to the genre.
    Mob A.I. looks the same as in other games in the genre and that is where the real change needs to take place to evolve the genre and require a real step up in challenge and group coordination.
    Good thing is, there are a few games in development that will take the genre to the next level and leave the relic games in the rear view.
    I hope for Pantheon's fans the game is a success but it is just a game.
     Not the savior for the genre. 

    You can't be serious. Do you really not know or remember that in Everquest, everything from buying and selling, to traveling, to healing, to gaining experience and items, to recovering one's corpse, to exp recovery and more, were all designed to require interdependence? Almost none of those components exist in modern games in any similar form. That it's only the player's mindset couldn't be further from the truth.

    It almost sounds like you haven't played an MMORPG that existed prior to 2010.

    Stop putting words in my mouth. I didn't say Pantheon would be the savior of the genre, but pretending Pantheon is no different from games that "already exists in the genre", just makes you sound uninformed.

    Yeah I'd seriously like to know where the "plenty" of other newer PvE MMOs are that have a majority of group based content, because I've been looking ;) Other than EQ or P99 what I see are titles with 5-10% of instanced dungeons or those that are PvP based.
    No one said anything about 'newer'
    Everquest is still running. Asheron's Call is still running. Project Gorgon is running. SkySaga is running, FF XIV is running, FFXI is still running. World's Adrift.  ESO has great group content. As does GW2.

    Why does a game have to be 'newer' to be played?


    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












Sign In or Register to comment.