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Pantheon Second Gameplay Stream Overview

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  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,043
    I am convinced that some elements are non negotiable even if I may have grown to dislike some aspects of the old game play in Everquest. What I am saying is that even if the genre has marched on to other ways to play the game it does not create what we enjoyed and liked in Everquest.

    Things in Everquest were the way the were because of the TTK and competition for mobs caused by no instances. I think I mean that in spite of us hating some aspects of Everquest it lead to a construction of a game play that endured and has lasted and that a portion of the player base want back. Even if it is a smaller player base than what might flock to another MMORPG there is a market for it.

    Even if some aspects of the game in Everquest can be modernized and also some quality of life improvements made, certain things have to remain exactly like it was in Everquest with very little change. Those things can be credited with creating a strong community something we are sorely lacking in MMORPGs these days and it is no coincidence that as the elements that forged those strong ties are removed it  lead to the destruction of community as we once knew it.

    People have often pointed to strong communities even though they are a very niche games in a brutal PvP game . It was borne out of the need to band together forced by circumstances that make it necessary for people to try to built communities and being civil to one another.

    I also think that the people that enjoyed Everquest also enjoyed the time it took to work out strategies and the plethora of choices we had in an encounter for each class. It made each choice of the spell gem matter and I must say with the speed of combat in action-like MMORPGs that nuance is lost and people who are simply slow unable to keep up. People like me who are unable to play the newer action games welcome the style that was Everquest.

    Even if you think you are trying to advance a change here on this discussion bear this in mind and try to stop ridiculing those of us who want what we want. I think we have been playing in this genre long enough to know what we miss.
    image
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,323
    cheyane said:
    I am convinced that some elements are non negotiable even if I may have grown to dislike some aspects of the old game play in Everquest. What I am saying is that even if the genre has marched on to other ways to play the game it does not create what we enjoyed and liked in Everquest.

    Things in Everquest were the way the were because of the TTK and competition for mobs caused by no instances. I think I mean that in spite of us hating some aspects of Everquest it lead to a construction of a game play that endured and has lasted and that a portion of the player base want back. Even if it is a smaller player base than what might flock to another MMORPG there is a market for it.

    Even if some aspects of the game in Everquest can be modernized and also some quality of life improvements made, certain things have to remain exactly like it was in Everquest with very little change. Those things can be credited with creating a strong community something we are sorely lacking in MMORPGs these days and it is no coincidence that as the elements that forged those strong ties are removed it  lead to the destruction of community as we once knew it.

    People have often pointed to strong communities even though they are a very niche games in a brutal PvP game . It was borne out of the need to band together forced by circumstances that make it necessary for people to try to built communities and being civil to one another.

    I also think that the people that enjoyed Everquest also enjoyed the time it took to work out strategies and the plethora of choices we had in an encounter for each class. It made each choice of the spell gem matter and I must say with the speed of combat in action-like MMORPGs that nuance is lost and people who are simply slow unable to keep up. People like me who are unable to play the newer action games welcome the style that was Everquest.

    Even if you think you are trying to advance a change here on this discussion bear this in mind and try to stop ridiculing those of us who want what we want. I think we have been playing in this genre long enough to know what we miss.
    Great post as always Cheyane

    I agree with your point of view about knowing what you miss and the ridicule of others about what they want and miss. What I would like to see is the reverse to be true. Looking at what others in this area that are cautiously looking at the game and wondering if it will be for them. Ridicule goes both ways.
    Saying that all new school games do not require skill and is all about the level cap is not true.
    As is not all old school games were skill based slow level tactical masterpieces.

    Gaming is a liquid state. Ever changing. While games like Pantheon are building a game that honors the games of the classic MMO era.
    What some fail to consider though is there is a larger part of the player base in this genre that is not static either. More than many realize. Many people do not want to go back to the tab target old school. Some are happy to embrace the future without looking in the rear view.

    For both camps it is important to keep perspective and remove the emotion from posting and just state our opinions and leave it at that.


      

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • cheyanecheyane Member EpicPosts: 6,043
    Agreed Blue we don't want an echo chamber but both sides have to be a bit less condescending. 
    image
  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited December 2016


    For both camps it is important to keep perspective and remove the emotion from posting and just state our opinions and leave it at that.


    Agreed.
    Opinions are good.
    Facts passed as opinions are not.

    I am happy you are now more open minded and give Pantheon and Old School the benefit of the doubt, which is what people are asking, they are not asking to agree with them.
    People don't like Pantheon? Fine
    People don't like Old School? Fine
    People thinks this game will fail? Fine
    People saying this game will fail because "no one wants to play this kind of game today"? Not fine

    People needs evidence for this kind of claims, and in this case there is no much data available.
    No one knows how big (or small) Old School player base really is, so any thoughts on the matter is just gut feelings and they should be expressed as opinions not matter of fact statements.

    Have you also thought that this game might appeal to a new generation of players that never played this kind of game and might like it?
    Take the 2D revival (Isometric games), we thought it was dead long time ago but in recent years we saw a revival of this "ancient" technology both in MMOs and Single Player Games.
    Some things just don't go out of fashion, I think Old School mechanics is one of those thing.
    I am sure many kids of the new generation might like this.

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,323
    ste2000 said:


    For both camps it is important to keep perspective and remove the emotion from posting and just state our opinions and leave it at that.


    Agreed.
    Opinions are good.
    Facts passed as opinions are not.

    I am happy you are now more open minded and give Pantheon and Old School the benefit of the doubt, which is what people are asking, they are not asking to agree with them.
    People don't like Pantheon? Fine
    People don't like Old School? Fine
    People thinks this game will fail? Fine
    People saying this game will fail because "no one wants to play this kind of game today"? Not fine

    People needs evidence for this kind of claims, and in this case there is no much data available.
    No one knows how big (or small) Old School player base really is, so any thoughts on the matter is just gut feelings and they should be expressed as opinions not matter of fact statements.

    Have you also thought that this game might appeal to a new generation of players that never played this kind of game and might like it?
    Take the 2D revival (Isometric games), we thought it was dead long time ago but in recent years we saw a revival of this "ancient" technology both in MMOs and Single Player Games.
    Some things just don't go out of fashion, I think Old School mechanics is one of those thing.
    I am sure many kids of the new generation might like this.

    I have no doubt that a game like this (there are others besides Pantheon) will appeal to a niche that needs feeding. Many younger gamers may not like corpses runs or target circles but I do not think anyone ever thought there was not a market for a game like this.
    I think the question is and will remain, is how big that market is. There are other games coming out that cater to that player as well.
    Just because Pantheon is making a game that appeals to old school players does not mean all old school players will enjoy Pantheon by default. I am Korean so I prefer an Eastern MMO over a normal Western European looking game. My first MMO love was Lineage and I still play with my brother over VPN back home.
    I still supported Pantheon with a $100 pledge because I like to support those in the industry and I want to further the genre. There are six games in development that I have helped crowdfund. I probably will only play one or two of them. I do this a lot. I like to pay it forward.

    This game looks like EQ 2.5 and for many that is what they have been waiting for. Time will tell if I am one of them. I will not declare in pre-pre alpha that this is the game I will be playing for years and years without ever playing it.
     

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • ste2000ste2000 Member EpicPosts: 6,194

    Just because Pantheon is making a game that appeals to old school players does not mean all old school players will enjoy Pantheon by default.
    Good point.
    There are other new Old School games being made at the moment like CU and Crowfall.
    But Pantheon has an advantage in my opinion that people and the industry seems to overlook.
    It is the only PvE centric game being made at the moment.

    In my view there are 2 categories that have been ignored by the MMO Industry in recent years:
    1) Old School Players
    2) PvE Players

    Pantheon is aimed at both of those type of players who have nothing to play at the moment, and although making a PvE only game cut off the PvP crowd I believe that the PvE crowd now is bigger in the MMO market, as most PvP players moved to MOBAs.

    That's also the reason why I believe PvP MMOs are now redundant, I don't see CU or Crowfall  being a huge success, they will do ok, but the PvP crowd moved on from MMOs (mostly).
    All PvP games released recently are dropping like flies, I know you are playing Albion, is not doing good is it?

    So if VR play its cards well, I think Pantheon is the game that will have the biggest chance of being the most successful among the current bunch of MMOs being developed at the moment.
    The potential is there, the question is "can VR pull it off?"

  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Member LegendaryPosts: 11,323
    edited December 2016
    ste2000 said:

    Just because Pantheon is making a game that appeals to old school players does not mean all old school players will enjoy Pantheon by default.
    Good point.
    There are other new Old School games being made at the moment like CU and Crowfall.
    But Pantheon has an advantage in my opinion that people and the industry seems to overlook.
    It is the only PvE centric game being made at the moment.

    In my view there are 2 categories that have been ignored by the MMO Industry in recent years:
    1) Old School Players
    2) PvE Players

    Pantheon is aimed at both of those type of players who have nothing to play at the moment, and although making a PvE only game cut off the PvP crowd I believe that the PvE crowd now is bigger in the MMO market, as most PvP players moved to MOBAs.

    That's also the reason why I believe PvP MMOs are now redundant, I don't see CU or Crowfall  being a huge success, they will do ok, but the PvP crowd moved on from MMOs (mostly).
    All PvP games released recently are dropping like flies, I know you are playing Albion, is not doing good is it?

    So if VR play its cards well, I think Pantheon is the game that will have the biggest chance of being the most successful among the current bunch of MMOs being developed at the moment.
    The potential is there, the question is "can VR pull it off?"
    CoE, SoL and Ashes of Creation cater to the old school PvE crowd as well.It is not just Pantheon.
     I think Pantheon and Ashes of Creation will make headway based on the team behind them.
    Amazon's New World will be an intriguing addition as well. Yet New World is true next gen stuff.
    Albion is doing great actually. The only hold up is waiting for launch. We have a guild of people here that play and enjoy the game. As they do not rush the development it is being done the right way.

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • kitaradkitarad Member EpicPosts: 4,845
    Those games you mentioned have forced PvP though so may be narrowing it to PvE without the forced PvP.

  • Kiori001Kiori001 Member UncommonPosts: 18

    I really enjoyed watching that stream,  seeing the pace of game play.  So many MMO today the dungeon content just seems to be about smashing through it as fast as possible,  just so you can do it over again or find another dungeon to break the speed limit in.  Because of this,  no cc is required really,  just a tank,  healer and maximum dps.

    I hope that the ability to switch off xp is in game.  I have seen this in one other game and really appreciated it.  It was something that I would have liked in Vanguard.  There were so many good dungeons that I could not do them all on one toon( not really an issue,  but not into alt itis either ). 

     I do remember one quest series though in some elven town for around late 30 to early 40 level I think,  this was for a set of armour which took me several weeks to obtain,  by the time I was done I was over level a bit for the gear.  It would have been nice to turn off xp,  I was more into the experience of the quest series and the grouping with a good reward at the end than going up in level.

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