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Fresh Start might actually work. (edited)

24

Comments

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    That's what people don't get. None of the servers have been populated by a majority of players who swipe to win. Not a single one. Not even a sizable minority of players who do that.

    They're populated by players who either know how to make money or have been playing long enough that even an inefficient method can get them good gear.

    Repeating a lie enough doesn't make it the truth. The popularity of a lie doesn't make it the truth. There is not some mythical horde of swipers waiting to become whales the moment the cash shop allows them. There are a lot of players who have been playing a really long time to get the gear they have that are incorrectly labeled as "whales".

    Getting in on day one as an active player makes you one of those "whales" whether you're a swiper or not.

    You literally need nothing but patron status, time to play, and a good working knowledge of the game.
  • LIOKILIOKI Member UncommonPosts: 421
    Yeah screw playing a f2p game for 3 months or even maybe 6 months! You'll never get what you paid for in that amount of play time.................
  • CopperfieldCopperfield Member UncommonPosts: 594
    i tried 3 times to actually get AA installed again ( took me half a day)

    Third time it finnally worked

    Picked a new race the dwarf

    Spawned in the air.. felt through the ground and died

    no sounds were working

    free info:

    Deinstalling AA works alot easier and faster then installing it

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Eldurian said:
    That's what people don't get. None of the servers have been populated by a majority of players who swipe to win. Not a single one. Not even a sizable minority of players who do that.

    They're populated by players who either know how to make money or have been playing long enough that even an inefficient method can get them good gear.

    Repeating a lie enough doesn't make it the truth. The popularity of a lie doesn't make it the truth. There is not some mythical horde of swipers waiting to become whales the moment the cash shop allows them. There are a lot of players who have been playing a really long time to get the gear they have that are incorrectly labeled as "whales".

    Getting in on day one as an active player makes you one of those "whales" whether you're a swiper or not.

    You literally need nothing but patron status, time to play, and a good working knowledge of the game.
    I dont believe anyone here said the game was made up of a majority of "wallet warriors" so your rant about "the lie" is baseless.

    The FACT is, the way this game works is that you can work your butt off for a year and earn some nice stuff but I can come in and within a week buy everything I need to best you in pvp.  THAT FACT spurs the feeling that when a person gets owned it must have been by some wallet warrior.  If the game did not have this possibility, people would not be so quick to jump on that conclusion.

    This is EXACTLY the thing they are trying to avoid by introducing the fresh start servers.  If this "lie" was false, why would they be making these changes to the cash shop on the new servers?  They did not modify the cash shops when they introduced the other new servers...
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    They're changing the way it works for two reasons. Last time I was playing ArcheAge I decided that my best chance was to actually get in at the start of a fresh server instead of a few months after the fact. Based on the way the last fresh start server worked, I began amassing APEX, credits, and labor potions via ingame gold so that when the next server actually was launched I could pop all those potions and use the labor on the new server to level from one to MAX and earn massive gold by just doing crafting, buy up everything I wanted on the credit store, and have patron covered for months worth of play.

    Again, this was not something I was preparing for via swiping, but via gold I was earning playing the game. That is why they released the new account restriction. So that people could not do exactly what I was planning to do.

    2nd is because when the new server actually releases there is a very limited timeframe that certain items usually in the cash shop could give you a massive head start. Right now the landgrab is about doing the quests and getting the gilda to place property in the most desirable locations before anyone else can. There are items on the marketplace that allow you to place property without doing quests or gilda. If these items were not temporarily removed then you would see people placing houses in the time it takes to grab a house/farm off the market and run to the location they want to place it. That is why placeable properties are not on the marketplace at launch.

    You would also see people load up on labor potions and vocation tonics to level from 1 to 60 in a span of about one to two hours. Those people would then be higher level than anyone else and able to run around doing max level content, securing their place at the top, while the vast majority of people are still leveling. That is why labor potions are not on the market at launch.

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date. I'm not a swiper and have never purchased an APEX, but if they weren't doing that I could promise you I'd buy two or three APEX the moment the servers went live.

    The important part to note here is that you're achieving those massive advantages by capitalizing on conditions that only exist at server launch:

    1. Massive amounts of unclaimed land including the best plots in the game.
    2. Everyone is level one and has to grind to the top as fast as possible.

    Two to three months down the road these conditions will not exist, and swiping will be back to it's usual form of only giving a large amount of benefit if you are dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars. Which almost nobody is willing to do.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    So either you are a swiper or multiboxer.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    Eldurian said:
    They're changing the way it works for two reasons. Last time I was playing ArcheAge I decided that my best chance was to actually get in at the start of a fresh server instead of a few months after the fact. Based on the way the last fresh start server worked, I began amassing APEX, credits, and labor potions via ingame gold so that when the next server actually was launched I could pop all those potions and use the labor on the new server to level from one to MAX and earn massive gold by just doing crafting, buy up everything I wanted on the credit store, and have patron covered for months worth of play.

    Again, this was not something I was preparing for via swiping, but via gold I was earning playing the game. That is why they released the new account restriction. So that people could not do exactly what I was planning to do.

    2nd is because when the new server actually releases there is a very limited timeframe that certain items usually in the cash shop could give you a massive head start. Right now the landgrab is about doing the quests and getting the gilda to place property in the most desirable locations before anyone else can. There are items on the marketplace that allow you to place property without doing quests or gilda. If these items were not temporarily removed then you would see people placing houses in the time it takes to grab a house/farm off the market and run to the location they want to place it. That is why placeable properties are not on the marketplace at launch.

    You would also see people load up on labor potions and vocation tonics to level from 1 to 60 in a span of about one to two hours. Those people would then be higher level than anyone else and able to run around doing max level content, securing their place at the top, while the vast majority of people are still leveling. That is why labor potions are not on the market at launch.

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date. I'm not a swiper and have never purchased an APEX, but if they weren't doing that I could promise you I'd buy two or three APEX the moment the servers went live.

    The important part to note here is that you're achieving those massive advantages by capitalizing on conditions that only exist at server launch:

    1. Massive amounts of unclaimed land including the best plots in the game.
    2. Everyone is level one and has to grind to the top as fast as possible.

    Two to three months down the road these conditions will not exist, and swiping will be back to it's usual form of only giving a large amount of benefit if you are dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars. Which almost nobody is willing to do.
    So they launched new servers and everyone moved their loads of crap over and now those servers suck because no land and high geared players are a determent to new players. 

    Now they start new servers again with a temp removal of cash shop "pay to advance past your friends" to attract new players again but in a few weeks after launch, these new servers will not have land and in a few months the P2A items will most likely be returned to the cash shop.

    So basically if you want to get back into the game now is your chance because by January, all the land will be gone and a few months after that the gear progression will be high and you will never be able to catch up without using your wallet.

    This is a major issue with AA, the limited land.  I am all for land ownership being tied to a sub fee but if I pay a sub fee I should be able to get land, no matter when I join the server.  In three weeks time all the land will be gone and the sub fee will have lost its most important benefit. 
    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,964
    filmoret said:
    So either you are a swiper or multiboxer.
    Or more likely a no lifer. ;)

    If you are all 3 you are probably still going to kick arse.

    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

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    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    filmoret said:
    So either you are a swiper or multiboxer.
    Multiboxing is actually seeing a nerf in 3.0 in the form of changes to the commerce system. Turning in multiple packs of the same type in one location is supposed to crash the market for those particular packs faster now. This really hurts people with an alt train carrying 50 packs. Generally your counter to this is vary your packs up a little bit. For instance in a zone with two types of packs split which ones you make 50/50.

    Unfortunately for multiboxers one of the pack types in every zone now takes gilda to make. Gilda of course requiring you either do daily quests or dangerous overseas runs. Neither of which are something people are likely to do on hauler alts. Especially on a highly active fresh-start server.

    I'm anticipating the result will be a crash in the value of all packs that do not require gilda to make. This should greatly benefit people who actively do commerce on their mains and are willing spend gilda on pack creation and greatly harm the viability of hauler alts.

    Now I myself will actually be running two accounts, but I never intended to multibox either of them, so this helps me. You would be a bit behind someone like me though I will not be burning my labor at 100% efficiency on my alt. You should not have to worry greatly about people who purchase ten accounts unless they are a total no-lifer. And there is literally no MMO I can think of where no-lifers don't have a huge advantage.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,492
    This is kind of funny. Trion is doing this in hopes of getting new whales to join the game and the new people are going to join because they think they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again. Water and oil right there.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Albatroes said:
    This is kind of funny. Trion is doing this in hopes of getting new whales to join the game and the new people are going to join because they think they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again. Water and oil right there.
    I'm through explaining this to people like you. I've given a lot of detailed explanations on how you can be viable without paying into the cash shop and how the advantages offered are pretty minimal unless you pour a truly staggering amount of money in that most players won't be willing to. I've also shown exactly how taking the things they have taken out will create a situation where any player who's active for the first 2-3 months will be quite competitive in the months that follow.

    People saying "So basically if you want to get back into the game now is your chance because by January, all the land will be gone and a few months after that the gear progression will be high and you will never be able to catch up without using your wallet." are 100% right.

    People saying "they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again" couldn't have their head any further up their own posteriors if they tried.

    There is no factual or logical basis to your arguments beyond a general hatred of cash shops that has more to do with your own biases than anything else.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 6,492
    Eldurian said:
    Albatroes said:
    This is kind of funny. Trion is doing this in hopes of getting new whales to join the game and the new people are going to join because they think they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again. Water and oil right there.
    I'm through explaining this to people like you. I've given a lot of detailed explanations on how you can be viable without paying into the cash shop and how the advantages offered are pretty minimal unless you pour a truly staggering amount of money in that most players won't be willing to. I've also shown exactly how taking the things they have taken out will create a situation where any player who's active for the first 2-3 months will be quite competitive in the months that follow.

    >>> People saying "any player that doesn't get in now will be just as screwed as they were 2-3 months down the line on any other server" are 100% right. <<<

    People saying "they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again" couldn't have their head any further up their own posteriors if they tried.
    That comment proves my point right if you didn't notice. Your explanation is going into the idea that people have a small window in order to be viable. Once the Cash shop is added again, then they won't be unless people are helping them. So...."they have a shot and will probably have fun until the p2w cash shop gets added again." Go figure...
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    What I am saying is that if you are there on day one, and are active for the first two to three months, you will have amassed enough wealth that the addition of cash shops should not hurt your enjoyment or viability in any dramatic fashion in month two, three, six, nine, or nine-hundred and ninety nine.

    I am also saying that if you join at a later date, those who have been playing longer than you will have advantage over you even if you are a swiper unless you are prepared to drop a truly staggering amount of cash.

    So as someone joining on day one, I am quite confident in the fact that despite the fact I'm not a swiper, I will continue to have fun when the cash shops arrive.

    Because ArcheAge is 90% PLAY to win, and 10% pay to win.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    The problems they have is from poor decision making and game design.  Since they allow multiboxing it has given them a whole slew of problems that wouldn't exist otherwise.  They are a company that tries to fix problems instead of prevent them.  There is a place where you are wrong though.  Once the floodgates are opened and all servers are treated equally.  Then all those multiboxers with all that gold from the legacy servers will immediately transfer the money over and the equality is gone completely.

    You have to look at from the point of view of a player who was there at launch.  Imagine there is 50 players all standing around waiting for a farm to time out.  Then there is 1 guy who gets the land.  So you immediately go to the next plot and even though there is 50 players that same person gets the second peice of land as well.  Once this happens like 10 times in a row and Trion did nothing about it then well you can see where I'm coming from.

    So they fix the massive land grab problem by making players build on the land first.  Well thats all fine and dandy but now the real estate guy has 20 characters so he just grabs the land with his other character while the other 19 build on the land so he can do it again.

    So even though it looks like they fixed something.  What they really did was figure out how to make more money from it.  This game will never work if they are going to allow multiboxing.  Getting rid of that one thing will fix like 100 problems.  Instead they are going to allow it and try to fix the problems one at a time.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,522
    edited December 2016
    Archeage/Trion fanboys claiming Archeage isn't pay to win gets really silly when you consider that even Trion thinks the non-fresh start servers are pay-to-win, since they keep indirectly saying it is.

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/11/28/archeage-accidentally-implies-that-its-a-pay-to-win-game/

    As shown by R2Games in their business presentation to investors, behind closed doors (and often not even that, apparently) businesses call many of Archeage's monetization methods pay-to-win  and find it perfectly acceptable and extremely profitable.

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1016417/-100-000-Whales-An

    (skip to the pros and cons section.  He refers to the strategy as "pay-to-win" there.  Archeage has many of the monetization methods brought up in this business presentation, but not all of them of course)

    As for the Fresh Start servers, Trion has also stated they will open the P2W floodgates, and the fact that they kept on shortening the date implies it'll be sooner rather than later.
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Member RarePosts: 3,438
    It had its chance, I'm not coming back
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited December 2016
    Tiamat64 said:
    Archeage/Trion fanboys claiming Archeage isn't pay to win gets really silly when you consider that even Trion thinks the non-fresh start servers are pay-to-win, since they keep indirectly saying it is.

    http://massivelyop.com/2016/11/28/archeage-accidentally-implies-that-its-a-pay-to-win-game/
    Those packs would be pay-to-win if released on Fresh Start Servers, and do not give a significant advantage on older servers.

    Eldurian said:
    ...when the new server actually releases there is a very limited timeframe that certain items usually in the cash shop could give you a massive head start. Right now the landgrab is about doing the quests and getting the gilda to place property in the most desirable locations before anyone else can. There are items on the marketplace that allow you to place property without doing quests or gilda. If these items were not temporarily removed then you would see people placing houses in the time it takes to grab a house/farm off the market and run to the location they want to place it. That is why placeable properties are not on the marketplace at launch.

    You would also see people load up on labor potions and vocation tonics to level from 1 to 60 in a span of about one to two hours. Those people would then be higher level than anyone else and able to run around doing max level content, securing their place at the top, while the vast majority of people are still leveling. That is why labor potions are not on the market at launch.

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date. I'm not a swiper and have never purchased an APEX, but if they weren't doing that I could promise you I'd buy two or three APEX the moment the servers went live.

    The important part to note here is that you're achieving those massive advantages by capitalizing on conditions that only exist at server launch:

    1. Massive amounts of unclaimed land including the best plots in the game.
    2. Everyone is level one and has to grind to the top as fast as possible.

    Two to three months down the road these conditions will not exist, and swiping will be back to it's usual form of only giving a large amount of benefit if you are dropping hundreds or thousands of dollars. Which almost nobody is willing to do.
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,910
    Eldurian said:
    ....

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date....
    In that case it's quite easy to see why Trion has removed the "pay to advance" from the new servers at start...

    They're going to make FAR more money if they open the floodgates a few weeks later ! :D
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Eldurian said:
    ....

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date....
    In that case it's quite easy to see why Trion has removed the "pay to advance" from the new servers at start...

    They're going to make FAR more money if they open the floodgates a few weeks later ! :D
    Possibly. If they actually did it at the start more people would pay in. A few weeks later a smaller number of people will pay in a higher amount. Not really sure which would generate more profit but the decision to hold off on releasing items that could potentially unbalance the early game is the best decision for the general playerbase.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Eldurian said:
    Eldurian said:
    ....

    So there is an exceptionally brief period (The first few days of this new server's existence) where swiping would pay off with much greater benefits than it would at any later point. You could achieve with like 20-50 dollars of APEX what would take hundreds or thousands of dollars of APEX to do at a later date....
    In that case it's quite easy to see why Trion has removed the "pay to advance" from the new servers at start...

    They're going to make FAR more money if they open the floodgates a few weeks later ! :D
    Possibly. If they actually did it at the start more people would pay in. A few weeks later a smaller number of people will pay in a higher amount. Not really sure which would generate more profit but the decision to hold off on releasing items that could potentially unbalance the early game is the best decision for the general playerbase.
    They are trying to trap players.  You play the game for 3-6 months and get a nice strong character going.  Then suddenly they open the cash shop and access to legacy servers.  So your nice strong character is now weak and you have to make a hard decision.  Either you join the club or you leave for another game.  Trion is hoping you will be invested to the point that you end up swiping that CC and now you will be forced to deal with wife aggro.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Just wondering Eldurian what is the highest gearscore you have and how long did it take you to get that without swiping?
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    4k in about 4-6 months. Plus a merchant ship and the larger of the two aquahouse types. That was while I was still running a single account and a lot of the gold earning methods I'll be using on this go around were things I learned partway through or at the end of that time playing.

    The statement by Trion is that they won't be opening up the server transfers for 6-9 months. That will be when you will a small number of 8k GS players hitting the server and large numbers of 6ks. Given that 6k is considered a competitive gearscore on every server though, I'm pretty sure I can reach that point before 6-9 months in.

    I'm really not at all concerned about the addition of cash shops as long as we have longer than a month to prepare.
  • FrammshammFrammshamm Member UncommonPosts: 322
    filmoret said:
    I'm starting to see its just another bullcrap move.  Multiboxing is the culprit.  And if you are lucky then 3 months of peace and they open the flood gates and now the p2w is back in action.  You have to admit its smart but very shady on Trion's part.  If they can get you invested enough in 3 months then they are hoping you are willing to fork over a few thousand to stay competetive.

    So the 4k gearscore you worked so hard to attain will be completely worthless in 3-6 months once the floodgates are opened on the cash shop.

    Crap all over this game and the trion that ruined it.

    #makeArcheagegreatagain
    Sorry.. lolwut? 4k GS you worked so hard for? They literally give away armor for free that gives you 5k GS. IN 6-9 months when they merge AH and allow transfers, its based on them monitoring the servers. They said they will do it when the merge will not have an impact. This means that the merge will happen at a point where people are already as powerful as the ones transferring in. Whats funny is that what will more likely happen is that the new server will lose tons of players since the majority wont be able to compete for content. They will just go back to their dead server and farm gold and continue being irrelevant. Those people will have become irrelevant not bc of P2W, but because of organization. (notice the lack of P2W prior to the transfers). Again, it needs to be re-iterated a thousand times apparently, END GAME CONTENT provides so much income that no whale can sustain it. If you are so pissy and such a pussy that you cant stand not being the absolute very tip top GS in the game, then so be it. So -long, no one will miss you. The game is about having fun and the majority of players can agree that having fun does not include the need to be the fattest cow on a given server.
  • FrammshammFrammshamm Member UncommonPosts: 322
    Talonsin said:
    Its essentially bait and switch.  Come try this new server where we removed p2w and everyone starts fresh.  Then three months later... BAM!  All the same things that drove people away from the game will be re-introduced.   From a business stand point, you have to hand it to Trion, all they do is copy the game code to a new server and then rake in the cash from all the suckers who dont think it will end up in the P2W mess the old servers are in. 


    The people who are paying are only the ones hoping they can pay their way to higher content. They hope to god it will be just p2w enough for them to get an advantage such that the rest of the server cant catch up to their content income. 
  • rodarinrodarin Member RarePosts: 2,451
    Might as well sign up for Twitch or Myth RP ARK servers those start over every 6 weeks or so.

    AA is an OK game but there isnt any goal to it. You can either be a land baron and make a lot of money (without much to spend it on) or you can use that money and play the RNG game and try to get gear. But if you dont want to PvP against wallet warriors then you dont need gear. So it has a complete identity crisis.

    Yeah if you start over and grind up through levels and play 'new' it might hold some interest for a month or so again. But like I said you might as well play a 'survival' game on servers that reset every couple months.
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