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"Battered & Bruised" Nostalrius Server to Launch Dec 17 - World of Warcraft News

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Comments

  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,174
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros Member EpicPosts: 2,924
    edited December 2016
    Aori said:
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
    Okay, I'm stealing!

    Actually, truth be told, I'm not stealing.  I didn't play on Nostalrius nor will I play on Elysium.  Not because I have moral issues with it but because I'm not comfortable investing hundreds of hours of my life into characters that can disappear in an instant.  So for my World of Warcraft fix, it'll have to be official servers.  And I do have some fun with the current game ... but I miss the old one a lot.
    Post edited by SedrynTyros on
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,777
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,174
    Aori said:
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
    Okay, I'm stealing!

    Actually, truth be told, I'm not stealing.  I didn't play on Nostalrius nor will I play on Elysium.  Not because I have morale issues with it but because I'm not comfortable investing hundreds of hours of my life into characters that can disappear in an instant.  So for my World of Warcraft fix, it'll have to be official servers.  And I do have some fun with the current game ... but I miss the old one a lot.
    Making a stink about wanting to play classic content and hoping Blizzard will give it is ok with me. 

    Beating your chest and publicly giving Blizzard the bird saying you're just going to do it yourself if they won't, not so much.  

    My biggest issue is how much Nost and its supporters are picking a fight with it. Just make your server and play it on the down low. This looks like nothing more than a temper tantrum. 
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Aori said:

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
    Thought the server wasn't out yet? 

    Either way, if the server is located in Russia, and it depends on where in Russia but for most people they won't be seeing sub 200ms. Add in cheaply run servers and overload, you're going to have some nasty latency.
    They just finished their 3rd stress test.  I can tell you my only issues were the first hour of everyone being in start zones.  After that it was smooth sailing, think I peaked at about 150ms.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 710
    edited December 2016
    Dakeru said:
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.

    Hateful? Is that what goes down as hate nowadays? People have gone so super soft that any disagreement in a joking manner, be it condescending or not, is labeled as hate speech and should be ignored. Get real my dude! Just chill and laugh it off if my joking remark had so much offense to you or Aori. This is the problem with the newer generations. (Assuming you are but maybe you're not and how dare I assume things right?) but there is this general notion to some people that you are somehow not allowed to say anything back without being regarded as hateful. Very alt-left of you good sir if I can be so bold.

    It's not like I insulted his person. Called him names, profanities or alike. Just went on my little joke after he went on and generalized vanilla private-server goers that play on that server (not the wannabe replicas of the retail WoW game) as some sort of freeloaders that choose not to pay a honest dime to Blizzard or any honest creator. Which is just not true. 
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,967
    edited December 2016
     
    gervaise1 said:
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..

      Hence why Blizz , is so successful they follow there data create content and games that appeal to there PAYING customers

      
              "you"..... in this post is not intended at any individual but a generaliztion of anyone who as ever payed a Blizz sub ( I dont want to hurt any feelings)


                                This has been a public service announcement............... .Thx You


                              
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Aori said:
    Aori said:
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
    Okay, I'm stealing!

    Actually, truth be told, I'm not stealing.  I didn't play on Nostalrius nor will I play on Elysium.  Not because I have morale issues with it but because I'm not comfortable investing hundreds of hours of my life into characters that can disappear in an instant.  So for my World of Warcraft fix, it'll have to be official servers.  And I do have some fun with the current game ... but I miss the old one a lot.
    Making a stink about wanting to play classic content and hoping Blizzard will give it is ok with me. 

    Beating your chest and publicly giving Blizzard the bird saying you're just going to do it yourself if they won't, not so much.  

    My biggest issue is how much Nost and its supporters are picking a fight with it. Just make your server and play it on the down low. This looks like nothing more than a temper tantrum. 
    Some in that community might be looking for a legal confrontation. It almost seems like a public challenge.

    I don't pretend to know the answers, I just don't think it's as clear cut as some would like to believe. I believe there is a reason why litigation has not gone beyond intimidation and reached a courtroom.

    IMHO It's a risk vs reward thing.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,211
    Scorchien said:
     
    gervaise1 said:
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..

      Hence why Blizz , is so successful they follow there data create content and games that appeal to there PAYING customers

      
              "you"..... in this post is not intended at any individual but a generaliztion of anyone who as ever payed a Blizz sub ( I dont want to hurt any feelings)


                                This has been a public service announcement............... .Thx You


                              
    With all do respect Scorch

    The box paints a different picture regarding the "rental" aspect.

    I kind of like the "Blizzards dedicated live team creates a constant stream of new adventure to undertake, lands to explore, and monsters to vanquish. The epic quest never ends."






    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,967
    edited December 2016
    laserit said:
    Scorchien said:
     
    gervaise1 said:
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..

      Hence why Blizz , is so successful they follow there data create content and games that appeal to there PAYING customers

      
              "you"..... in this post is not intended at any individual but a generaliztion of anyone who as ever payed a Blizz sub ( I dont want to hurt any feelings)


                                This has been a public service announcement............... .Thx You


                              
    With all do respect Scorch

    The box paints a different picture regarding the "rental" aspect.

    I kind of like the "Blizzards dedicated live team creates a constant stream of new adventure to undertake, lands to explore, and monsters to vanquish. The epic quest never ends."






    Funny but semantics and you know it , but you know what does jump right out on that BOX

       Sales Number
       Billing and Acct
      Billing


      All the information any person could ever want to find out exactly what there money was paying for ....
     
      But as you everyone else who ever payed a sub and has common sense KNOWS "The Adnventure ends when PAyment ends" Like any other service .... ...




      

     Except for Hookers , where the Adventure begins when payment ends , but even they will hold the right to upcharge for additional services ..


      And lets not forget to mention if we are going to have show and tell ......Front of Box


    First Month of Play Included
        Internet Connection Required
         Additional Online Fees Apply

      Anyone here confused by this , or feel it justifies stealing there service at alter date ..



     


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,659
    I kind of like the "Blizzards dedicated live team creates a constant stream of new adventure to undertake, lands to explore, and monsters to vanquish. The epic quest never ends."


    Yeah but that is up to the player to manage expectations. Star Wars the Old Republic had the same issue when one of the devs said they were working on "epic combat" only to have a player throw a hissy fit because they felt the combat "wasn't epic".





  • JRRNeiklotJRRNeiklot Member UncommonPosts: 129

    Deekins said:


    There is a reason there are IP infringement laws. They are stealing, regardless of what you and all the other people here condoning theft seem to think.


    You need to look up the word "theft." If I take your car, that's theft. If I make a copy of your car, it's not theft because you still have your car. IP infringement is not theft and is not prosecuted as such. Now, if you want to say it's illegal, that may be, but it is NOT stealing.
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 27,659
    edited December 2016

    Deekins said:


    There is a reason there are IP infringement laws. They are stealing, regardless of what you and all the other people here condoning theft seem to think.


    You need to look up the word "theft." If I take your car, that's theft. If I make a copy of your car, it's not theft because you still have your car. IP infringement is not theft and is not prosecuted as such. Now, if you want to say it's illegal, that may be, but it is NOT stealing.
    As I mentioned earlier, when someone says "theft" in context of software it's more about acquiring something that they do not have the right to acquire.

    Actually doing a bit of searching there is a term "software theft" and it means unauthorized copying.





  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,022

    Deekins said:


    There is a reason there are IP infringement laws. They are stealing, regardless of what you and all the other people here condoning theft seem to think.


    You need to look up the word "theft." If I take your car, that's theft. If I make a copy of your car, it's not theft because you still have your car. IP infringement is not theft and is not prosecuted as such. Now, if you want to say it's illegal, that may be, but it is NOT stealing.
    If Toyota creates a new AWD (All-wheel Drive) system that they patent and want exclusive to their cars.  And you come along and "copy" the AWD system in your brand of cars than that is theft. Even if they still have their AWD system and you didn't touch it.  It is still theft.  You see because it was Toyota who invested their time and money and employees in researching and developing that new AWD system.  That makes you Arthur Slugworth
  • JRRNeiklotJRRNeiklot Member UncommonPosts: 129
    If Toyota creates a new AWD (All-wheel Drive) system that they patent and want exclusive to their cars.  And you come along and "copy" the AWD system in your brand of cars than that is theft. Even if they still have their AWD system and you didn't touch it.  It is still theft.  You see because it was Toyota who invested their time and money and employees in researching and developing that new AWD system.  That makes you Arthur Slugworth
    Not even close.  Infringement and theft are not the same thing. Infringement of intellectual property rights, such as the unauthorized copying of copyrighted works, gives rise to money damages, based on theoretical lost sales (which can be the subject of vigorous debate), and injunctive relief (i.e., stop copying). Theft is depriving a person (or company) of possession of an item of value.

    The difference is obvious: If I steal your car, you no longer have it, and are deprived of the value of owning it. If I rip a copy of your CD, I haven't stolen it from you, nor have I stolen it from the record company. What I have done is made an unauthorized copy, depriving everyone in the value chain of the music business of a potential sale, generating potential income for everyone from the songwriter to the retail store owner.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,777
    edited December 2016
    Scorchien said:
     

      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..
    <snip>                  
    As I said this is not how subs started out. The game(s) were sold and the sub was for a service. Now personally I "understood" but it could be an area of contention.


    However your comment about Destiny - and presumably Apple - is not only wrong but worrying.  

    This issue was at the heart of the EU Supreme court that ruled that software is a product. And as a product it is subject to the same protections and rules as other products. (Major EU companies pushed for the ruling btw. Nothing like it has hit the US Supreme court but the entrails suggest the ruling would be the same.)

    Think it through. Do you own a car? Now it depends how old it is but it probably contains software. You take it for a service, sign the paperwork, it gets a software update and when you collect it you get told you have to enter an activation fee every month. $200 charge. WTF you say. "Sorry sir. T&Cs changed. We need the money to develop our new models you understand. And its only $7 a day."

    Notice I was just parroting back what you said. And there are thousands of examples I could have selected from. Courts - fortunately - consider these things. If you buy a product you have the right to expect it to work as purchased, advertised etc. Which is why businesses - many of which depend on (very expensive) software to operate wanted a ruling.

    It is not OK for companies to simply change stuff.

    Now WoW has had a sub from day 1 so I think this would win the day. It is a hole though. They sold the software as a package and then sold the sub as a service. And an argument could be made that someone who bought (not stole) the software is simply using it but not using Blizzard's service.

    Which is a problem Steam have. People bought games through Steam being told they can't play them on GoG or whatever. Not quite the same but in the ballpark.

    Got to think of the big picture.



  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 6,967
    gervaise1 said:
    Scorchien said:
     

      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..
    <snip>                  
    As I said this is not how subs started out. The game(s) were sold and the sub was for a service. Now personally I "understood" but it could be an area of contention.


    However your comment about Destiny - and presumably Apple - is not only wrong but worrying.  

    This issue was at the heart of the EU Supreme court that ruled that software is a product. And as a product it is subject to the same protections and rules as other products. (Major EU companies pushed for the ruling btw. Nothing like it has hit the US Supreme court but the entrails suggest the ruling would be the same.)

    Think it through. Do you own a car? Now it depends how old it is but it probably contains software. You take it for a service, sign the paperwork, it gets a software update and when you collect it you get told you have to enter an activation fee every month. $200 charge. WTF you say. "Sorry sir. T&Cs changed. We need the money to develop our new models you understand. And its only $7 a day."

    Notice I was just parroting back what you said. And there are thousands of examples I could have selected from. Courts - fortunately - consider these things. If you buy a product you have the right to expect it to work as purchased, advertised etc. Which is why businesses - many of which depend on (very expensive) software to operate wanted a ruling.

    It is not OK for companies to simply change stuff.

    Now WoW has had a sub from day 1 so I think this would win the day. It is a hole though. They sold the software as a package and then sold the sub as a service. And an argument could be made that someone who bought (not stole) the software is simply using it but not using Blizzard's service.

    Which is a problem Steam have. People bought games through Steam being told they can't play them on GoG or whatever. Not quite the same but in the ballpark.

    Got to think of the big picture.



    Really , really bad anaolgy with the car ,completely over the top hypothetical rubbish ,and viewed differently even by any court ..

      1 of them is a necessity to work and survive , and cost mehh between 10-30k on average

     1 of them is a fuckin game man ... that has cost you nothing but the box price(maybe 30$ for entry ..

                  Car company and GAMES are already regualted differenlty for a reason ... this is obvious and for a reason ..

      And if Destiny decides tommorrow that they announce in 1/17 they will be a 9.99 sub fee to play there GAME , you have a choice dont you ...

        On your car if you scenario played out ,which it never would , You wouldnt have a choice but to pay and be raked over ...If it was possible believe me some car co. would have tried it .. But Automobile co. work under there own set of federal regulations ...

      Your scenario does not apply in a way , shape or form

  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003



    Sovrath said:



    So many comments from people who have no idea whatsoever how the law works in this case...

    Blizzard can't do nothing,


    Great, why don't you enlighten us.



    If the server is hosted in the EU they have little to no power.



    DDoS, virus, worms, etc.

    Blizzard must how to pull it off and remain anonymous. Fight fire with fire.

    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • TheCoonTheCoon Member UncommonPosts: 41
    Fuck it, I'll try it. I miss the old wow days.
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,290
    Reading this thread I feel like I'm watching an expose on the ridiculous extremes to which some people are willing to go in order to convince themselves that the wrong thing they're doing is actually right.

    You have absolutely no entitlement or right to play in Nost/Elysium. What you bought once upon a time (if you actually ever bought it in the first place) was a contract for Blizzard, and only Blizzard or it's legal successors, to provide you with the service of hosting the WOW online game experience on their servers and allow you to connect to them as they saw fit for 30 days. And then you chose to renew that service contract by buying more time or not. Every other lame rationalization here is just that, lame.

    At least have the balls to say "Yeah. I know it's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway." I can actually respect that kind of honesty. But the contortionist rationalizations in this thread are just pathetic attempts to lie to yourselves in a way that can convince you enough to satisfy your need to feel like one of the good guys. And then you go way beyond that by trying to convince others that the convoluted lie that worked for you should be adopted by everyone else.

    At least it's entertaining watching people expose their wonky thought processes to this extent. Makes for good reality interweb.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • DMKanoDMKano Member LegendaryPosts: 21,947
    edited December 2016
    postlarval said:


    DDoS, virus, worms, etc.

    Blizzard must how to pull it off and remain anonymous. Fight fire with fire.




    This is just laughably absurd that Blizzard would even entertain this idea.

    Sorry - but Blizzard wouldn't risk doing this EVER - period.

    That's not how Blizzard runs their business.

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 2,949
    Iselin said:
    Reading this thread I feel like I'm watching an expose on the ridiculous extremes to which some people are willing to go in order to convince themselves that the wrong thing they're doing is actually right.

    You have absolutely no entitlement or right to play in Nost/Elysium. What you bought once upon a time (if you actually ever bought it in the first place) was a contract for Blizzard, and only Blizzard or it's legal successors, to provide you with the service of hosting the WOW online game experience on their servers and allow you to connect to them as they saw fit for 30 days. And then you chose to renew that service contract by buying more time or not. Every other lame rationalization here is just that, lame.

    At least have the balls to say "Yeah. I know it's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway." I can actually respect that kind of honesty. But the contortionist rationalizations in this thread are just pathetic attempts to lie to yourselves in a way that can convince you enough to satisfy your need to feel like one of the good guys. And then you go way beyond that by trying to convince others that the convoluted lie that worked for you should be adopted by everyone else.

    At least it's entertaining watching people expose their wonky thought processes to this extent. Makes for good reality interweb.
    Sure it's wrong.

    I don't care and it's exactly like pirating a game I already paid for when the company will not offer it for sale and I would gladly pay again.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 13,290
    Nilden said:
    Iselin said:
    Reading this thread I feel like I'm watching an expose on the ridiculous extremes to which some people are willing to go in order to convince themselves that the wrong thing they're doing is actually right.

    You have absolutely no entitlement or right to play in Nost/Elysium. What you bought once upon a time (if you actually ever bought it in the first place) was a contract for Blizzard, and only Blizzard or it's legal successors, to provide you with the service of hosting the WOW online game experience on their servers and allow you to connect to them as they saw fit for 30 days. And then you chose to renew that service contract by buying more time or not. Every other lame rationalization here is just that, lame.

    At least have the balls to say "Yeah. I know it's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway." I can actually respect that kind of honesty. But the contortionist rationalizations in this thread are just pathetic attempts to lie to yourselves in a way that can convince you enough to satisfy your need to feel like one of the good guys. And then you go way beyond that by trying to convince others that the convoluted lie that worked for you should be adopted by everyone else.

    At least it's entertaining watching people expose their wonky thought processes to this extent. Makes for good reality interweb.
    Sure it's wrong.

    I don't care and it's exactly like pirating a game I already paid for when the company will not offer it for sale and I would gladly pay again.
    Good enough for me.

    "IF Blizzard provided retro vanilla servers I would gladly sub there and play. But they don't. Some pirate servers provide that vanilla experience for me so I'm going to play there."

    Some people here might throw the first stone when you say that but most of us wouldn't because we have all smoked dope, drank when we were underage, copied vinyl records to cassettes, duped friend's music CDs with CD burners, did the same with movie DVDs and later on we ripped them to digital formats. We've all done these things even if we don't talk about them.

    They're all technically wrong but we did it anyway... just because.

    But when people start using what they believe to be clever logic loopholes to say that it isn't wrong, that's when the conversation starts to go batty.
    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 2,003
    DMKano said:
    postlarval said:


    DDoS, virus, worms, etc.

    Blizzard must how to pull it off and remain anonymous. Fight fire with fire.




    This is just laughably absurd that Blizzard would even entertain this idea.

    Sorry - but Blizzard wouldn't risk doing this EVER - period.

    That's not how Blizzard runs their business.

    Uh, OK. lol
    ______________________________________________________________________
    ~~ postlarval ~~

  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,483
    Iselin said:
    Nilden said:
    Iselin said:
    Reading this thread I feel like I'm watching an expose on the ridiculous extremes to which some people are willing to go in order to convince themselves that the wrong thing they're doing is actually right.

    You have absolutely no entitlement or right to play in Nost/Elysium. What you bought once upon a time (if you actually ever bought it in the first place) was a contract for Blizzard, and only Blizzard or it's legal successors, to provide you with the service of hosting the WOW online game experience on their servers and allow you to connect to them as they saw fit for 30 days. And then you chose to renew that service contract by buying more time or not. Every other lame rationalization here is just that, lame.

    At least have the balls to say "Yeah. I know it's wrong but I'm going to do it anyway." I can actually respect that kind of honesty. But the contortionist rationalizations in this thread are just pathetic attempts to lie to yourselves in a way that can convince you enough to satisfy your need to feel like one of the good guys. And then you go way beyond that by trying to convince others that the convoluted lie that worked for you should be adopted by everyone else.

    At least it's entertaining watching people expose their wonky thought processes to this extent. Makes for good reality interweb.
    Sure it's wrong.

    I don't care and it's exactly like pirating a game I already paid for when the company will not offer it for sale and I would gladly pay again.
    Good enough for me.

    "IF Blizzard provided retro vanilla servers I would gladly sub there and play. But they don't. Some pirate servers provide that vanilla experience for me so I'm going to play there."

    Some people here might throw the first stone when you say that but most of us wouldn't because we have all smoked dope, drank when we were underage, copied vinyl records to cassettes, duped friend's music CDs with CD burners, did the same with movie DVDs and later on we ripped them to digital formats. We've all done these things even if we don't talk about them.

    They're all technically wrong but we did it anyway... just because.

    But when people start using what they believe to be clever logic loopholes to say that it isn't wrong, that's when the conversation starts to go batty.
    I feel like that cuts both ways, though.  The moral outrage on both sides has been quite surprising.

    It's generally illegal, though some countries don't recognize the laws that make it so.  However, the self-defeating moral argument implying Nost are the devil and that any players playing a classic EMU server are simply freeloaders both lacks evidence to support the moral argument and is scary, to me, as a consumer.

    Consumers push back against producers because that's the way the market balances itself.  What folks demanding the crucifixion of Nost are really doing is saying, "We prefer to let the producers of our hobby dictate to us how the relationship is going to work.  We intrinsically trust they have our best interest in mind as well as their own."

    That isn't true, it never will be in this relationship, and sticking our heads in the sand and simply parroting "It's illegal therefore anyone involved is scum!" is a downright dangerous stance for a consumer to take.

    image
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