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"Battered & Bruised" Nostalrius Server to Launch Dec 17 - World of Warcraft News

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Comments

  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 714
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,219
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,378
    Distopia said:
    laserit said:

    Must be a nice store where you buy your boxed games from. I can return them for a refund only if the game hasn't been opened.

    And your absolutely correct it is a forewarning that the game may change and that absolves them from having to give refunds for that reason. Which incidentally is a rock solid reason to want a refund, having that warning is the right and proper thing to have on the box and that is why it's there. 

    Blizzard can take them to court right now, Nostalius is already guilty of *your* clear cut case of IP theft.  Why don't they? Why are they not taking anyone of the multitude of private servers to court?

    Most likely it's because it ain't a slam dunk and a ruling in favor of a fan run non-profit private server would be absolutley disastrous.

    It's a big risk, It's not about being Mr Nice Guy.
    If you're not referring to servers that are outside of their reach... Which even with those I'm sure there's constant research on the subject. You can't really say what is and what is not going on behind the scenes. Blizzard acting against private servers has been an ongoing process for quite a while, and those are just the stories that make major headlines. They seem to move on a case by case basis, which probably starts very quietly as they move to collect evidence and other pertinent information, so they can move forward with a plan of action. That's what legal teams/divisions do...
    France is not some rogue nation.

    If it is so clear cut, the damage is to do nothing. If your slam dunk IP theft case is being conducted in a friendly nation like France you'd think they'd be jumping at the opportunity to bring the case to the courts. 

    Precedence can be a very powerful thing. Very bad if it doesn't go your way. Very risky

    When or if a case actually goes to the courts, make no mistake, it will be front page news in gaming quarters.

    Litigation by Intimidation means diddly squat.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    edited December 2016
    Dakeru said:
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.
    Right back at ya?  Dishing hate towards those passionate about something.

    And there is nothing obvious about that assumption, which is why he responded in such a sarcastic manner.  I can't remember ever filling out any kind of survey about my thoughts on it. 
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,219
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,219
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,797
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    Yeah not hateful and extreme at all...
    Harbinger of Fools
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 20,640
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.
    Great post. This sums up my thoughts quite nicely. Thanks.
    Fedora - A modern, free, and open source Operating System. https://getfedora.org/

    traveller, interloper, anomaly, iteration


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 29,219
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    No one is saying the laws are perfect and if people agree with the laws that doesn't mean they have a narrow view of them. That's a ridiculous statement.

    In truth I don't think this is really about "law". What it is about is the protection of a creator's creation.

    I wonder if Blizzard wasn't a large company but some gamer/artist who created a set of images or a game and those images/game were used in ways he/she didn't want if there would be people in the "private servers are ok" camp who would be up in arms about it?

    Not an exact apples to apples but a point that people generally want to side with the creators.

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    Just like if I take your photo and use it in a way that you don't want it to be used. Oh sure, you might not care if I used it on a "this is what beautiful people look like" article but how about a "This man has syphillis, learn the facts!" ad? Maybe you would care maybe not.

    The "every person has broken the law at some point" is yet another strawman argument.

    There are laws on the books that don't even pertain to modern society but that people have probably broken at some point or another. Now, our society is still catching up with digital law and who knows what will change in the future but I bet that a creator will still be able to have control over their creations. Now, whether or not there is enforcement is another thing all together.

    In truth I don't think anyone is saying these people's lives should be "ruined" (though who knows there are intense people out there). What they probably are saying is that they are doing something with a company's assets that they have no right to do and that they should stop.




    And the rest of us are saying - Blizzard just has to embrace it's fan base rather than alienate it.
    Who says they don't embrace their fanbase?

    The difference is "which part of the fanbase can be embraced"? Or embraced in a way that makes sense to Blizzard?

    Just because x amount of thousand (100 thousand? ) want something does't mean that Blizzard should cater to them.

    And keep in mind that there are probably a whole lot of difference "factions" among Blizzard's fanbase who might want something different.


    They created the beast.  They better find a way to manage it because regardless of comments its already out of the cage.  They had a chance to have better PR through this but they chose the tactics they did and here we are.  And they most certainly have the ability to cater to quite a few different "factions" of their fanbase and come out on top.. and even profit.
    Ok but now you are thinking like a player and not a company. A large company at that.

    Well, we'll see what Blizzard decides to do, if anything.
    If I ever think like a company, please shoot me.  I work in non-profit.
    lol, ok fair enough and makes sense. I've worked for non-profits and also "for profits" and obviously the businesses are run differently.
  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844
    edited December 2016
    Gotta agree with most peeps,it is good news for Blizzard,more subs and some of us will also buy their (horrible)expansions too for support. But still,would be nice if Blizzard provided this service for their fans by themself.

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • NildenNilden Member EpicPosts: 3,174
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.
    The only reason I'm playing on a private server is because Blizzard doesn't offer official legacy servers that I would pay a sub for.

    "You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon

    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer



  • WhySoSeriousWhySoSerious Member UncommonPosts: 156

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,027
    Aori said:

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.



    Oh yeah leechers who paid sub for years and bought all WOW expansion until I decided that I want to try or go back to Vanilla . You have a limited and narrow mind my dear friend !

    I've heard Wow Awakening is moving Servers to Europe for legal purposes possible to avoid Blizzard IP owner ship like that ?

    Other wise I don't see a good reason to start and all to be Wiped again .
    Just because I was loyal to my local grocery store for 10 years doesn't mean I can just walk in and help myself what I want at no cost.

    You're stealing, there is no justification for your actions, you're a criminal.
    Oh shut the fuck up these fucking nerds are criminals?? idiots like you don't drop a word about how corrupt are USA politicians and Corporations and lobbyists  with special interest . NO real criminals are some Nerds ...and who for years supported the development of the game ....in  first place .....if not millions of nerds wow would have never succeeded ....


    Stop shifting goal posts.  Try staying on topic for a second.  The other things (like the politicians) are also criminals.  See how easy that was.  Both are breaking the law.  
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,182

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
    Thought the server wasn't out yet? 

    Either way, if the server is located in Russia, and it depends on where in Russia but for most people they won't be seeing sub 200ms. Add in cheaply run servers and overload, you're going to have some nasty latency.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,569
    Sovrath said:
    So lynch mob is still out on this one, huh?  It's interesting, but also disturbing, to so see how so many people hold such a narrow view of the law.  The law is a set of rules that are designed to preserve order but they aren't perfect.  

    There's a lot of focus here on IP theft but very little discussion going on about what exactly Blizzard is losing from this theft.  The case has been made that Nostalrius did not negatively impact Legion purchases.  If that's the case, then what would be the cost to Blizzard were they to officially sanction Nostalrius?  But since Blizzard hasn't given these private servers this blessing then that makes the people running them criminals under the law, and criminals are scum!  Now, I'd bet the farm that every single person who's posted in this thread has knowingly broken the law at some point in their lives.  So I hope after you're done posting here, you'll all turn yourselves in.  Justice must done!  I want to see copies of your jaywalking tickets pronto!! 

    Here we have a situation where there's a group of people who are interested in preserving a legacy version of a game with zero profit motive but the consensus is that their lives should be ruined by the company who owns the IP; not because that company is losing money but based on the principle that IP theft is some absolute evil in all instances and there's no room for nuance.  Well gawd bless you folks for standing up for what it is right!   :)
    ....

    It doesn't matter what Blizzard is losing if they lose anything. All that matters is how they want their IP to be presented.

    .....



    And I think that statement gets to the core of the disagreement between those for and those against what Nostalrius is doing.  I chose not to side with the George Lucas's of the world on this issue.  If a creator wants to change their work to the point where it only vaguely resembles the original work that I loved, that's their prerogative, but I'm still going to enjoy the version I love if at all possible.  I see nothing wrong with that and I've see no argument put forward yet that would persuade me otherwise.  I sure as hell am not going to toss out my original collections of Star Wars because George Lucas decided to shit all over his own legacy and the same is true with World of Warcraft.  If I'm to be labeled a criminal for that position then so be it.
      I get it Sedryn , i understand you want your game ,as i would like an official Vanilla UO , but there isnt one , But I will not support those private servers either(i also have invested in EA) ... The problem with Nos(Elysium) and Sovrath hinted at it , Is it is a misrepresentation of there Product(Brand) And they have Investors to answer to , its funny to me when i see people labeling Blizz , as just this mindless corp Zerg ..

       Blizz has a fanbase that has grown every year since they started , they must be doing something right , ANd there focus is growing that base by expanding there Brands  and increasing revenue for Investors , and" Protecting "those brands.....Particularly as they try to move into other entertaiment in Movie/Books/TV
     
      I saw one guy in this thread saying he has a right to erhmm  use the private server because he spent 1000$ since 2005 on Wow.. .. Well there are people that have invested 100 of Thousands into Blizz, and they expect that investment protected ...Not to be misrepresented by a pirate server ...Especially one that wants to be so Bold and throw it there face , Its like your kid being bad just because he wants your attention , Well they are going to get Blizzs attention , but they may not like the results just like that bad kid...They would be better served to just go about there business in the dark...

      When this topic came up last year i told you that, nothing would come of it at this time ..that  1 year after Legion they would look at all the data , and may do some sort of Legacy server at that time ... But that would be determined by what paying customers want .. not what amounts to .001% of there paying fanbase, stealing and misrpresenting there product ...
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,182
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
  • AoriAori Member EpicPosts: 4,182
    Aori said:
    For those in defense, just admit you're stealing, stop trying to justify your actions.

    For the rest of us(assumption), we just find it ridiculous that you feel entitled to it and that you believe Blizzard has no right to stop you.
    Okay, I'm stealing!

    Actually, truth be told, I'm not stealing.  I didn't play on Nostalrius nor will I play on Elysium.  Not because I have morale issues with it but because I'm not comfortable investing hundreds of hours of my life into characters that can disappear in an instant.  So for my World of Warcraft fix, it'll have to be official servers.  And I do have some fun with the current game ... but I miss the old one a lot.
    Making a stink about wanting to play classic content and hoping Blizzard will give it is ok with me. 

    Beating your chest and publicly giving Blizzard the bird saying you're just going to do it yourself if they won't, not so much.  

    My biggest issue is how much Nost and its supporters are picking a fight with it. Just make your server and play it on the down low. This looks like nothing more than a temper tantrum. 
  • sedatedkarmasedatedkarma Member UncommonPosts: 181
    Aori said:

    Aori said:

    Enjoy your 400ms of free gameplay, dirty leechers.




    Actually my latency is below 200. And Blizzard doesn't offer a paid Vanilla server, so "leeching" is the only option I have.
    Thought the server wasn't out yet? 

    Either way, if the server is located in Russia, and it depends on where in Russia but for most people they won't be seeing sub 200ms. Add in cheaply run servers and overload, you're going to have some nasty latency.
    They just finished their 3rd stress test.  I can tell you my only issues were the first hour of everyone being in start zones.  After that it was smooth sailing, think I peaked at about 150ms.
    Happily playing Vanilla and BC WoW, again, since September 2016.

  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 714
    edited December 2016
    Dakeru said:
    Aori said:
    tawess said:
    They can still force them to prevent the end user from using any IP owned by blizivison... It will be ugly and in the end not worth it.. but they could. 

    They can also simply force them to block any US/EU IP. 

    But to be fair.... I can´t even be care any more. 

    Let the entitled little twits have their inflatable pool... Just as long as they agree to stay there and leave the rest of the internet alone. 
    Honestly I think you are making a drastic mistake by thinking that everyone who plays on these emulated servers don't still support or play current Wow. Just because they want to play a version of the game they started with doesn't mean they hate the current one, or are just deadbeats. Personally I have no desire to play either version of the game, nothing against Wow personally, just sick of tab target MMOs, I just find the current situation fascinating. However from past experience I know that many private server users still played normal wow as well. Even during the days when "Vanilla" Wow was still around. I don't imagine that has changed much the past few years.
    I'm pretty confidant the majority of people on pirated servers are doing it because its free.

    Shit dude. You're so right.

    This guy has it. Man, I'm a freeloader...... All my guildmates that played and will play on Nostalrius (Elysium) that play retail as well are complete freeloaders. Fuck. I need to look into the mirror man. You see it so clearly. I can only imagine you have experiences beyond that of mortal people.... You are a god dude! I worship you. You are much like Odin all-father because you know everything, even the people you do not know. I am contacting the Avengers to see if they have an open spot for you because they will need your services in their defense of humanity.

    Thank you so much, Aori. 
    That was a hardcore overkill just because Aori stated something obvious.

    You private server guys are such a hateful bunch.

    Hateful? Is that what goes down as hate nowadays? People have gone so super soft that any disagreement in a joking manner, be it condescending or not, is labeled as hate speech and should be ignored. Get real my dude! Just chill and laugh it off if my joking remark had so much offense to you or Aori. This is the problem with the newer generations. (Assuming you are but maybe you're not and how dare I assume things right?) but there is this general notion to some people that you are somehow not allowed to say anything back without being regarded as hateful. Very alt-left of you good sir if I can be so bold.

    It's not like I insulted his person. Called him names, profanities or alike. Just went on my little joke after he went on and generalized vanilla private-server goers that play on that server (not the wannabe replicas of the retail WoW game) as some sort of freeloaders that choose not to pay a honest dime to Blizzard or any honest creator. Which is just not true. 
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 7,569
    edited December 2016
     
    gervaise1 said:
    Scorchien said:
    Hordefall said:
    Deekins said:
    <snip>

    IP infringements can mean stealing things inside the IP too. And they are using the IP name, characters, items and everything in between. So in this case it doesn't matter if they aren't paying, it is theft.
    I paid a thousand bucks for a thing, had that thing taken from me, and I'm the thief. It's a weird Orwellian world that you have created here. 
    The agreement you clicked on everyday was to rent the product ... while paying a sub , Now you are a common thief
    This would be much more clear cut if Blizzard had not sold WoW and its subsequent expansions. Sold not rented. With - it could be argued - the subscription being a "service charge" for the servers.

    Which was how subs were "sold" back when UO, EQ1 launched; box price alone couldn't cover the servers for that there has to be a sub.

    Would this argument get thrown out without a second thought? Not so sure it would be super clear cut because of potential knock on implications.

    That agreement you clicked on for .... Destiny say - sure the agreement allows them to update it. So if they add a sub that would be OK? And maybe Apple - what the heck I bought a thousand bucks of music from them you might say. Ah but that agreement you clicked on ...

    With something like Amazon Prime and Netflix it is very clear. And if you buy an online album / film these days you usually get a hard copy - it avoids possible future problems. The type that Walmart, say, came face to face with when they closed their music service (they took care of their customers but legally did they have to?)

    (And I am not "defending" Elysium btw just pointing out how not clear cut these things can be.)
      Its not up to you/me or anyone else if box price and sub are part of the rental fee Thats there choice , it was your Choice and everyone elses who ever in the last 12 years that have purchased a box and sub to consciously do so Knowing what you were buying into.. You had a Choice then , and at the time it fit your agenda to pay that entry price and sub fee to  play there game...So essentially they rented the service for .65 a day .. Sounds fair to me , Did anyone ever log into Wow and  not  feel they got there .65 cents worth on any particualr day .. ( i know people could come with asinine situations to answer yes , but that would just make them an ass)  To the point they feel entitiled to steal it now..

       Generally every person got there moneys worth .65 a day each time they logged into play , That doesnt give them right to steal that service ..

      That was Blzzs decision for what they felt they needed to bring in for Investors/Overhead/Management /Future Development etc... it doesnt matter they made that choice was theres they could of Asked for 2.00$ a day  ,  the consumer still had the Choice to say no ...

         If Destiny decides they need to add a Sub yes thats ok for them to do and there Choice , its your Choice Not to enter your CC info and pay them .. This is what co. hear ...But if you do enter CC info and click OK , its  not ok to whine about it later or think you are entitled to steal there product afterwards..

      Hence why Blizz , is so successful they follow there data create content and games that appeal to there PAYING customers

      
              "you"..... in this post is not intended at any individual but a generaliztion of anyone who as ever payed a Blizz sub ( I dont want to hurt any feelings)


                                This has been a public service announcement............... .Thx You


                              
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