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Early Access/Kickstarter funded games. Good or bad?

135

Comments

  • coretex666coretex666 Member EpicPosts: 4,023
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2016
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,477
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,100
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?
    You should only pay your way into early access if you can satisfy yourself with the game that is currently available.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,153
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    I wouldn't know, I don't play games (I inhabit virtual worlds) and "fun" is not why I enjoy them. (progression against goals and overcoming challenges drive me)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,477
    edited November 2016
    Shaigh said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?
    You should only pay your way into early access if you can satisfy yourself with the game that is currently available.
    Is there a reasonable refund policy?

    Reputable businesses that stand behind their products have no problems with this.

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?

    Well if I prepaid for a hooker and coke and I had the coke but the hooker never came. :wink::  Would I care?

    hahaha
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    I wouldn't know, I don't play games (I inhabit virtual worlds) and "fun" is not why I enjoy them. (progression against goals and overcoming challenges drive me)
    To add to that play to relax and escape.  Fun is a very simple answer but it is often used to killjoy anything that requires effort, is too tough, or is too "grindy".   To me, there is fun and appreciation for something worked for.

    I just downloaded eve online and wow and wow, I feel lost.   Also, I didn't remember I have two accounts setup for my email address.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 6,477
    waynejr2 said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?

    Well if I prepaid for a hooker and coke and I had the coke but I never came. :wink::  Would I care?

    hahaha
    Fixed ;)

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • waynejr2waynejr2 Member EpicPosts: 7,768
    laserit said:
    waynejr2 said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?

    Well if I prepaid for a hooker and coke and I had the coke but I never came. :wink::  Would I care?

    hahaha
    Fixed ;)

    sad face.
    http://www.youhaventlived.com/qblog/2010/QBlog190810A.html  

    Epic Music:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1

    https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1

    Kyleran:  "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."

    John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."

    FreddyNoNose:  "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."

    LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"




  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    edited November 2016
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    I wouldn't know, I don't play games (I inhabit virtual worlds) and "fun" is not why I enjoy them. (progression against goals and overcoming challenges drive me)
    its not complicated to me and the point is still the same regardless of if its 'fun' or 'satisfying' or 'compelling' or 'fulfilling'

    When I have a few hours to spend at my leasure my question is:

    Question 1: 'am I having fun'
    Question 2: 'could I have more fun doing something else' dont really care what its called

    as it turns out for me I have had more fun with incomplete games then I have with complete games at least over the past three years.

    I am not going to stop playing a fun game and then pick up an unfun game and play that instead simply because its 'finished'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • pantaropantaro Member RarePosts: 515
    Good for me cause i dont just blindly throw money at games,some do tho and wonder why they end up pissing money away.

     i'll do lots of research into not only the project but the company. do they have a track record? can they deliver? it has served me quite well.

    some of the games i have supported i would give money to way before any triple A game. but that's just me!
  • epoqepoq Member UncommonPosts: 394
    Show me one that actually works out in the long run and I'll change my tune.  I have fingers crossed for CU and Pantheon, if just 1 out of the 2 isn't total garbage I will thank the Gods and recant all the shit I've talked about KS funded projects but in the world of MMO's it hasn't worked out so well.

    As far as Early Access goes, like with Steam games, I don't buy those either.  People STILL don't understand what Early Access means for some reason, and they will buy these games and go bitch on the forums or leave bad Steam reviews saying how broken the game is (WELL, DUH).  I prefer finished games, or late Beta at the VERY LEAST but I will never again drop a cent on a game to play it in Alpha state. 
  • esc-joconnoresc-joconnor Member RarePosts: 1,097
    Shaigh said:
    • Darkest dungeon is my favorite game of 2016 so far.
    • Pillars of eternity was my favorite game of 2015.
    • I loved undertale
    • Dreamfall the longest journey was a game that was stuck in the middle of nothing, even though it took a long time until it finished we did get an ending.
    • Kentucky Route Zero is a really interesting game even though its taking forever for them to finish the game
    • I liked divinity: original sin
    • I liked the shadowrun games, without shadorun returns i doubt we would have had shadowrun: dragonfall that was the best in the series.
    • I enjoyed wasteland 2.
    • Jotun was alright.
    • Banner saga was enjoyable.
    • Grim dawn wasn't my kind of game but without kickstarter it probably wouldn't have happened.
    Sure there are plenty of games that turns out badly so that's why I use the following guidelines.
    • If a game sounds too good to be true its not going to deliver.
    • If a developer think they can deliver a AAA quality game on a small budget they will fail.
    • If a developer say that their mmorpg will be done within two years they are lying.
    • If the reviewer keep mentioning how the early access games have a lot of potential its not a good game right now.
    • If its a survival sandbox game its going to spend an eternity in early access
    • If the developer have a well defined plan on what they want to achieve and that their plans sounds reasonable I'm interested. 
    • If they can show gameplay that looks interesting I will pledge for the game.
    • I'm going to wait for a 50-75% discount before I spend money on a steam early access game.
    The only thing I can add to that is the percentage of good to bad games on that come out on early access of kickstarter is probably exactly the same as the traditional development method. You can be fooled with an early access game or crowdfunding campaign, but the same can be said of paid reviews and rank improving services for completed games. It's buyer beware no matter the situation.
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,100
    laserit said:
    Shaigh said:
    laserit said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    As a "proud" owner of DayZ, I vote "bad". I was a kid when I bought that game. Now I am a soon-to-be old man and the game is still in early access.

    From my point of view, it has become a way to sell people unfinished products with a non-binding promise that they will finish them at some point in the future. 

    I remember when you were given a free demo to try a game out and if you liked it, you just paid the price for the finished product. No cash shops, no free to play, no early access. Just a fixed price for a finished product. 
    I have to ask this though.

    If a gaming experience is fun isnt that the bottom line.
    I dont care if the game is done, not done, never done. all I care about is am I having fun while I am playing it.
    Stalker? realeased and not fun
    7 days to die? unreleased and fun
    If you prepaid for a steak and a baked potato and the baked potato was the best you ever tasted but the steak never came.

    Would you be satisfied?
    You should only pay your way into early access if you can satisfy yourself with the game that is currently available.
    Is there a reasonable refund policy?

    Reputable businesses that stand behind their products have no problems with this.
    Its the same refund policy as other games which is exactly why you should only buy into them if you want the game that is currently offered. It would be far better if people realize the risks of development and understand that there is the possibility that the game turns to shit during development.

    I'm all for criticizing kickstarters, early access and shitty games dumped into release and if anyone check my posting history they would see that I tend to be very negative about many of those titles. I still find that the positive outweighs the negative.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    I barely touched any of it. So it didn't affect me much.

    I got 7D2D out of it though, which is great, even thought it's still a work in progress too.

    And for as much skepticism SC receives, it seems like the game is slowly going somewhere. I saw screenies of a character someone made, and it looks a lot better than expected. :D

    Of course that doesn't say much of how much actual playable content it has so far... xD

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson Member EpicPosts: 3,029
    I chose undecided because while I have seen a few good titles.  My personal favorite being the Shadowrun SRPGs.  They were well done and all promises/goals were met and the game came out in a reasonable time.  

    The majority of kickstarters are usually not projects I believe will deliver so I never support any.  I don't ever join early access either.  Even though I would love to get the new Divinity 2, I'd just rather wait till it launches as a full game so I won't.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,153
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    I always felt I was sifting through garbage when we had a multitude of publisher or self funded titles, so nothing too much different these days at least in my book.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,897
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    Much of the money we spend on Kickstarter and Early Access titles is away from our other game purchases. So while it's true that some of the good games wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter and Early Access, at the same time some other good games didn't get made because we spent less on other game purchases.

     
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    Much of the money we spend on Kickstarter and Early Access titles is away from our other game purchases. So while it's true that some of the good games wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter and Early Access, at the same time some other good games didn't get made because we spent less on other game purchases.


    There is absolutely no evidence of that, and it's not the way that publishing works. If there was a truly great game, it would get made, if it was in the pipe for a publisher. If anything, successful Kickstarter and Early Access games are opening the door for conversations about creating some titles that may have been great, but were shelved by executives long ago. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,100
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    Much of the money we spend on Kickstarter and Early Access titles is away from our other game purchases. So while it's true that some of the good games wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter and Early Access, at the same time some other good games didn't get made because we spent less on other game purchases.

    Its not a zero sum system, there is still not that much money in kickstarter and early access and there is still room for growth in the indie market. The financial issues within gaming has more to do with games costing more to create and less to do with reduced revenue.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • VrikaVrika Member EpicPosts: 6,897
    Shaigh said:
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    Much of the money we spend on Kickstarter and Early Access titles is away from our other game purchases. So while it's true that some of the good games wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter and Early Access, at the same time some other good games didn't get made because we spent less on other game purchases.

    Its not a zero sum system, there is still not that much money in kickstarter and early access and there is still room for growth in the indie market. The financial issues within gaming has more to do with games costing more to create and less to do with reduced revenue.
    I did not claim it would be a zero sum system.

    Kickstarter and Early Access likely entice people to spend more through different ideas, making people feel commitment to game development, and hyper-expensive Kickstarter packages. New and different Kickstarter and Early Access games may even get people to play more, even if at the same time numerous failures and trash games might make people seek for other forms of entertainment. It's anything but a zero sum game.

    But even though it's not a zero sum game, all those games are competing for our free time and money. Kickstarter and Early Access games getting a part of that means there's less available for finished games.
     
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 15,832
    Vrika said:

    But even though it's not a zero sum game, all those games are competing for our free time and money. Kickstarter and Early Access games getting a part of that means there's less available for finished games.
    I'm not so sure that's it. When you see all the posts in all the game forums with people talking about whether the developers listen to them or not it becomes pretty obvious that the real attraction of KS is the promoted idea that by "donating" you will have a voice in the direction of development -- whether they actually mean that or not.

    Dreams of co-development and feeling like a special snowflake is the main thing they're selling.
    "I don't wait for games. Games wait for me."
    -- CHUCK NORRIS

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,100
    Vrika said:
    Shaigh said:
    Vrika said:
    DMKano said:
    Both.

    Some good some bad.

    Without KS/Early access we would have both lost some good games and lots of bad games.

    IMO losing any good games is not worth it in the end even if you have you have to sift through a sewer
    Much of the money we spend on Kickstarter and Early Access titles is away from our other game purchases. So while it's true that some of the good games wouldn't have been made without Kickstarter and Early Access, at the same time some other good games didn't get made because we spent less on other game purchases.

    Its not a zero sum system, there is still not that much money in kickstarter and early access and there is still room for growth in the indie market. The financial issues within gaming has more to do with games costing more to create and less to do with reduced revenue.
    I did not claim it would be a zero sum system.

    Kickstarter and Early Access likely entice people to spend more through different ideas, making people feel commitment to game development, and hyper-expensive Kickstarter packages. New and different Kickstarter and Early Access games may even get people to play more, even if at the same time numerous failures and trash games might make people seek for other forms of entertainment. It's anything but a zero sum game.

    But even though it's not a zero sum game, all those games are competing for our free time and money. Kickstarter and Early Access games getting a part of that means there's less available for finished games.
    More competition with better games is a good thing regardless. Most often its mediocre games that suffer from tougher competition. I have no interest of the annual releases coming out of big publishers and view it as a good thing that there are indie developers coming up with worthy alternatives for my time and money. It made it a lot easier to stop returning to some mmorpg when I could play some really good rpg instead.

    I do have to clarify one thing, when I say that I'm positive about kickstarters its because I like it for creating games with a well defined project goal. I don't find it a good fit for mmorpg development.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 38,153
    edited November 2016
    Iselin said:
    Vrika said:

    But even though it's not a zero sum game, all those games are competing for our free time and money. Kickstarter and Early Access games getting a part of that means there's less available for finished games.
    I'm not so sure that's it. When you see all the posts in all the game forums with people talking about whether the developers listen to them or not it becomes pretty obvious that the real attraction of KS is the promoted idea that by "donating" you will have a voice in the direction of development -- whether they actually mean that or not.

    Dreams of co-development and feeling like a special snowflake is the main thing they're selling.
    Wait, you mean MJ isn't incorporating all of the feedback I've emailed him as an "ALPHA" backer in CU? He promised!

    Betrayed I tell you.  :p

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing ESO - Blackwood at the moment.

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