So, I am confused. It seems that each player will make his own world. They hope the world can hold up to 200 players. So it is more of a solo game that you can invite people to play in your world. That is an odd idea. Not sure I like that, but we will see.
Agree about the @DMKano 's sponsored bit and @Torval 's hype comment. Doesn't mean the game will be good / bad of course.
The creating your own world idea - based on the comments - seems a lot like you might get in Civilisation say. Why would they do it? Well (what became) Landmark was intended to address the issue that players consume content faster than companies can create it. Landmark and EQN are no more but the problem remains. So this could be an attempt to address the issue and so increase re-playabiliy.
So the CEO does not make decisions and is now only the messenger?
I think the point was there were more hands in the jar than just Smedley and SOE. You also had folks like Julio Torres (SP) and Nancy MacIntyre from LA steam rolling the changes as well. Laying it all at Smeds feet isn't an accurate assessment at all.
As Lahnmir said above, "NGE was an effort to save a failing game and it didn't work out, nothing more, nothing less."
Not just that, but LA were the ones who mandated that Jedis be included in the game on or before December 2003. That's the feature which, even Raph Koster agrees, killed the game. It's also been well-documented that the game was at 200k subscribers and was hemorrhaging like 10k+ per month before CU or NGE was even released.
The fact that Smed went back and is doing something like Hero's Song is pretty telling.
Not buying it, one can only handle so much disappointment in their life. How often do all the games we hype ever live up close to the expectations?
This truly sounds like a personal problem TBH, I can only think of one true disappointment in my gaming life that was the changes made to SWG. What are you personally building these games up to be to get that beaten down by them?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Not buying it, one can only handle so much disappointment in their life. How often do all the games we hype ever live up close to the expectations?
This truly sounds like a personal problem TBH, I can only think of one true disappointment in my gaming life that was the changes made to SWG. What are you personally building these games up to be to get that beaten down by them?
A personal problem many people share I suppose. I find it hard to believe you've had no disappoints since SWG if you have any passion for gaming.
Why? I don't let 'hype" lead my hands off opinion of a game, nor have many games been different than I expected them to be.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Buying games like this are based on trust and since I lost mine I'll wait and see how it does after launch.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Not buying it, one can only handle so much disappointment in their life. How often do all the games we hype ever live up close to the expectations?
This truly sounds like a personal problem TBH, I can only think of one true disappointment in my gaming life that was the changes made to SWG. What are you personally building these games up to be to get that beaten down by them?
A personal problem many people share I suppose. I find it hard to believe you've had no disappoints since SWG if you have any passion for gaming.
You call it passion I call it being an emotional mess
So the CEO does not make decisions and is now only the messenger?
I think the point was there were more hands in the jar than just Smedley and SOE. You also had folks like Julio Torres (SP) and Nancy MacIntyre from LA steam rolling the changes as well. Laying it all at Smeds feet isn't an accurate assessment at all.
As Lahnmir said above, "NGE was an effort to save a failing game and it didn't work out, nothing more, nothing less."
Lucas Arts was hard to work with, Raph Koster even mentioned this once. I guess when they were developing SWG all they were allowed access to was the same EP1 trailers we all saw, some concept art and lots of expanded and prequel universe stuff. He thought it was ridiculous how secretive they were with everything, and they were involved in any changes made to their IP in the game.
Not buying it, one can only handle so much disappointment in their life. How often do all the games we hype ever live up close to the expectations?
This truly sounds like a personal problem TBH, I can only think of one true disappointment in my gaming life that was the changes made to SWG. What are you personally building these games up to be to get that beaten down by them?
A personal problem many people share I suppose. I find it hard to believe you've had no disappoints since SWG if you have any passion for gaming.
Interestingly enough I've had tons of disappointments when it comes to games but I have had just as much pleasant surprises. For me it evens out pretty much, I do not know why you would want to keep this as a hobby if it didn't.
I feel no hype for Hero's Song, none actually. Smed being included is no positive or negative for me, I actively dislike its graphics. But its gameplay is where it is at for me. And truth be told, for 15 bucks I am more then willing to get pleasantly surprised and won't feel burned when it turns out less then I expected.
I've been gaming for 25+ years and still feel that sense of wonder, that curiosity, it is still exciting to me. And that, for me, trumps any disappointment I have had in all these years. Well, except for ArcheAge and its 150 bucks pre order deal, screw you Trion
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
I played Swg since beta and I loved every minute until the NGE came out. I quit went back to DAoC and eventually moved on to others.
Ive held a grudge for a really long time and wont ever forget tbh. Here comes the but...
But just because he ruined one game I loved so dearly and had the most fun ever in an mmo...wait nvm you suck smedley!....wait my point is I wont let tgat stop me from playing a game I hope will love for a really long time.
I wish people would stop harping on the whole Smedley thing and discuss the actual game more often. It has some interesting ideas, but also some interesting potential pitfalls, and I never see anyone talking about them because they're too busy complaining about the CEO.
For instance, one of the things I'd like to see discussed is how they plan to make the world interesting enough that it's worth exploring. Procedurally generating a history for it is all well and good, but as with so many procedural games, that runs to risk of making the world feel overly generic. Sure, one person's world may lack elves, while another has slightly different dwarves or more ocean, but what's going to make each town feel like an individual town? What's going to make a particular ruin feel like its own, unique place rather than a copy with the same tileset of one from someone else's world and a different layout? What's going to make the NPC's feel like they're more than just generic villager sprites with one or two lines of generic, ad-lib text when you speak to them?
These, and many others, are the questions I'd like to see answered. Enough of the "I hate Smedley" stuff. Yes, fine, you hate him. You have every right. But constant back and forth of what role he did or didn't play in the decline and/or failure of past games adds nothing to the discussion about Hero's Song. Everything that can be said on that score has been said. Let it rest and let's move on to actually discussing THIS game. The game itself. Not the CEO. Because what they're doing here is at least somewhat unique, and there's a lot about it that's worth discussing besides one of the developers.
Edit: I'm also going to throw in my copy of the "I wish I'd backed this thing when I had the chance" gripe. I don't often like to play Alphas, but I'd have been really interested in getting in on this one while it's still being developed in order to see how it evolves.
Not buying it, one can only handle so much disappointment in their life. How often do all the games we hype ever live up close to the expectations?
This truly sounds like a personal problem TBH, I can only think of one true disappointment in my gaming life that was the changes made to SWG. What are you personally building these games up to be to get that beaten down by them?
A personal problem many people share I suppose. I find it hard to believe you've had no disappoints since SWG if you have any passion for gaming.
I suppose it depends on how much weight one puts on those disappointments.
I take games for what they are and not what I want them to be with two early exceptions. Lord of the Rings Online and Aion.
Neither of those games turned out how I thought/expected them to turn out.
but though I was disappointed, that was pretty much it. I then moved on.
I think some players don't reside in "disappointment" so much as "devastated". And that's just not a healthy place to be.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
John Smedley is the right person for sure - to run your super excited and with possiblities racing mind into the best dump you could ever imagine.
Sorry John but for most SWG players your name is branded with three letters (NGE) - and we dont forget.
I agree, kill the messenger. They're always the ones making all the decisions.
Like he didn't have anything to do with the b***awful running of the SWG game and SOE in general.
He promised new content, showed it on Fanfest, never materialized ingame.
In fact, at that time they were developing a secret side project/overhaul of SWG which would kill off 99% of the community within 2 months after it's release.
Announced 2 weeks prior to release and rendering a recently released paid expansion useless.
JS is very good at selling hot air, he promises the world, yet doesn't deliver, instead, he leaves his customers with a very bad taste.
You talk about killing the messenger, hundreds of thousands of disgruntled players can't be all wrong, right?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
While they have talked about things that works in the background they haven't really told me anything that speaks of what makes this game more fun to play than other games. They definitely haven't managed to show anything that looks exciting.
Just because a game looks like it came from a great gaming era doesn't mean its mechanically as good as those games.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
Anyone interested in and have the Hardware to run a MMORPG server , seems to be enough here interested , could be a nice start for those wanting others to jump in with , we could also discuss the world build , Gods etc ...
While they have talked about things that works in the background they haven't really told me anything that speaks of what makes this game more fun to play than other games. They definitely haven't managed to show anything that looks exciting.
Just because a game looks like it came from a great gaming era doesn't mean its mechanically as good as those games.
This is one of my issues as well. The idea of a world with a procedurally generated history is intriguing, but what I want to know is how they're going to ensure that world is interesting and fun to play in. I'm not yet convinced that something like this will be as cool in execution as it looks on paper and, while I'm willing to drop 15 - 25 bucks to watch it develop and eventually find out, plenty of my friends aren't, and I don't blame them.
John Smedley is the right person for sure - to run your super excited and with possiblities racing mind into the best dump you could ever imagine.
Sorry John but for most SWG players your name is branded with three letters (NGE) - and we dont forget.
I think most former SWG players don't even know who Smedley is, or still have a grudge against him because somehow they decided blaming him for NGE. Only the bitter ones do not forget, the really bitter ones.
For the more emotional stable, NGE was an effort to save a failing game and it didn't work out, nothing more, nothing less. Can't wait to play this game and don't care Smed is involved at all.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Oh we remember all right and the NGE was not an effort to save a failing game. It was an effort to recreate the success of WOW instead of catering to their existing player base. They hoped to siphon away subs from WOW. In the process they gained few new subs and completely alienated their existing player base.
It was a mistake. They admitted it was a mistake and I wish them luck with this new project. Ultimately though, many of us are going to be a hard if not impossible sell.
While they have talked about things that works in the background they haven't really told me anything that speaks of what makes this game more fun to play than other games. They definitely haven't managed to show anything that looks exciting.
Just because a game looks like it came from a great gaming era doesn't mean its mechanically as good as those games.
This is one of my issues as well. The idea of a world with a procedurally generated history is intriguing, but what I want to know is how they're going to ensure that world is interesting and fun to play in. I'm not yet convinced that something like this will be as cool in execution as it looks on paper and, while I'm willing to drop 15 - 25 bucks to watch it develop and eventually find out, plenty of my friends aren't, and I don't blame them.
This is the issue with procedural generation, you're stuck with no soul in the creation. Great if you want large areas, bad if you want to feel any sort of atmosphere, ambiance, or artistic integrity.
Post edited by Distopia on
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Agree about the @DMKano 's sponsored bit and @Torval 's hype comment. Doesn't mean the game will be good / bad of course.
Regarding @vtravi 's comment:
The creating your own world idea - based on the comments - seems a lot like you might get in Civilisation say. Why would they do it? Well (what became) Landmark was intended to address the issue that players consume content faster than companies can create it. Landmark and EQN are no more but the problem remains. So this could be an attempt to address the issue and so increase re-playabiliy.
Not just that, but LA were the ones who mandated that Jedis be included in the game on or before December 2003. That's the feature which, even Raph Koster agrees, killed the game. It's also been well-documented that the game was at 200k subscribers and was hemorrhaging like 10k+ per month before CU or NGE was even released.
The fact that Smed went back and is doing something like Hero's Song is pretty telling.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
You call it passion I call it being an emotional mess
Lucas Arts was hard to work with, Raph Koster even mentioned this once. I guess when they were developing SWG all they were allowed access to was the same EP1 trailers we all saw, some concept art and lots of expanded and prequel universe stuff. He thought it was ridiculous how secretive they were with everything, and they were involved in any changes made to their IP in the game.
Also, to everyone saying NGE...i give you a pfffffft....and will only say "Combat Upgrade".
~I am Many~
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I feel no hype for Hero's Song, none actually. Smed being included is no positive or negative for me, I actively dislike its graphics. But its gameplay is where it is at for me. And truth be told, for 15 bucks I am more then willing to get pleasantly surprised and won't feel burned when it turns out less then I expected.
I've been gaming for 25+ years and still feel that sense of wonder, that curiosity, it is still exciting to me. And that, for me, trumps any disappointment I have had in all these years. Well, except for ArcheAge and its 150 bucks pre order deal, screw you Trion
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Ive held a grudge for a really long time and wont ever forget tbh. Here comes the but...
But just because he ruined one game I loved so dearly and had the most fun ever in an mmo...wait nvm you suck smedley!....wait my point is I wont let tgat stop me from playing a game I hope will love for a really long time.
For instance, one of the things I'd like to see discussed is how they plan to make the world interesting enough that it's worth exploring. Procedurally generating a history for it is all well and good, but as with so many procedural games, that runs to risk of making the world feel overly generic. Sure, one person's world may lack elves, while another has slightly different dwarves or more ocean, but what's going to make each town feel like an individual town? What's going to make a particular ruin feel like its own, unique place rather than a copy with the same tileset of one from someone else's world and a different layout? What's going to make the NPC's feel like they're more than just generic villager sprites with one or two lines of generic, ad-lib text when you speak to them?
These, and many others, are the questions I'd like to see answered. Enough of the "I hate Smedley" stuff. Yes, fine, you hate him. You have every right. But constant back and forth of what role he did or didn't play in the decline and/or failure of past games adds nothing to the discussion about Hero's Song. Everything that can be said on that score has been said. Let it rest and let's move on to actually discussing THIS game. The game itself. Not the CEO. Because what they're doing here is at least somewhat unique, and there's a lot about it that's worth discussing besides one of the developers.
Edit: I'm also going to throw in my copy of the "I wish I'd backed this thing when I had the chance" gripe. I don't often like to play Alphas, but I'd have been really interested in getting in on this one while it's still being developed in order to see how it evolves.
I take games for what they are and not what I want them to be with two early exceptions. Lord of the Rings Online and Aion.
Neither of those games turned out how I thought/expected them to turn out.
but though I was disappointed, that was pretty much it. I then moved on.
I think some players don't reside in "disappointment" so much as "devastated". And that's just not a healthy place to be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Am I in 1994?
Like he didn't have anything to do with the b***awful running of the SWG game and SOE in general. He promised new content, showed it on Fanfest, never materialized ingame. In fact, at that time they were developing a secret side project/overhaul of SWG which would kill off 99% of the community within 2 months after it's release. Announced 2 weeks prior to release and rendering a recently released paid expansion useless.
JS is very good at selling hot air, he promises the world, yet doesn't deliver, instead, he leaves his customers with a very bad taste.
You talk about killing the messenger, hundreds of thousands of disgruntled players can't be all wrong, right?
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
While they have talked about things that works in the background they haven't really told me anything that speaks of what makes this game more fun to play than other games. They definitely haven't managed to show anything that looks exciting.
Just because a game looks like it came from a great gaming era doesn't mean its mechanically as good as those games.
Recommended:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit or newer
Processor: Intel® Core™ i5-2xxx @ 2.0 Ghz / AMD® Phenom™ @ 2.6 Ghz
Memory: 8 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 / AMD Radeon R9 390 (2 GB VRAM)
DirectX: Version 11
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 4 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX 11 sound device
Looks like this will be another coding masterpiece.
This is one of my issues as well. The idea of a world with a procedurally generated history is intriguing, but what I want to know is how they're going to ensure that world is interesting and fun to play in. I'm not yet convinced that something like this will be as cool in execution as it looks on paper and, while I'm willing to drop 15 - 25 bucks to watch it develop and eventually find out, plenty of my friends aren't, and I don't blame them.
Couldn't care more about the fact that their communication utterly sucks. No website. Random blurbs in 5-6 different sites. No consistency.
They just hired a CM and it's a good thing because they desperately need someone to handle this like a pro.
PS: Send the damn keys...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Oh we remember all right and the NGE was not an effort to save a failing game. It was an effort to recreate the success of WOW instead of catering to their existing player base. They hoped to siphon away subs from WOW. In the process they gained few new subs and completely alienated their existing player base. It was a mistake. They admitted it was a mistake and I wish them luck with this new project. Ultimately though, many of us are going to be a hard if not impossible sell.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson