"Again - same game - small studio that has no marketing - Overwatch wouldn't even have 1/100th of the players it has."
This is a ridiculous statement and it once again highlights your belief that Blizzard is only successful because they have money. I've asked this before a few times, but I'll ask it again- how do you think they got so much money to begin with? I'll clue you in- it wasn't from making bad games.
Overwatch is truly leagues above the competition (while granted, it's competition is Paladins, Battleborn and the 10 year old game tf2). If it wasn't made by Blizzard, it might not be as popular but to say it wouldn't be 1/100th as popular is basically stupid.
HotS is an excellent example. The game is basically an uninspired copying dud, which is the kind of game most Devs push out regularly. And it's not doing so great because of it (despite having the apparent power to multiply the playerbase by 100x just by having the Blizzard logo on the opening screen).
Personally, I have well over 300 hours in Overwatch, and just last night I was playing and said to myself "just one more game". 8 hours later I was exhausted and my life was wasted. I haven't had a game do that to me in, well basically forever with 300 hours already in it. And none of that time was I thinking "Man, this is great because it's Blizzard."
"why do you think so many devs have left Blizzard? Its not because of pay (many took pay cuts when leaving) - the corporare culture stifles creativity and passion is why."
Or... maybe they just got plain bored working on the same shit for the ancient game WoW....
Anywho, as to the OP, I think Blizzard by now has a ton of experience with e-sports with Starcraft 2's popularity in Korea and Hearthstone's popularity worldwide. This has helped them figure out what works and what doesn't in e-sports.
money is not the only reason but it helps A LOT
Blizzard made money hy making excellent games like Diablo 1 and 2 and Starcraft 1
WoW made them HUGE
But to ignore the luxories that billion dollar earnings make for them is absurd:
1. They can outbid all other game companies if they want to hire a dev they want for a salary that other dev studios cant afford - how? Money
2. They can afford to scrap a $40 million internal project that wasnt good enough. How many other dev studios can afford to do this? Yeah money.
3. they can afford to go overbudget and release a polished game - again money. other studios run out of funds and release a hot mess
4. Marketing - spend more than what othet studios spend on development to ensure killer sales - again money enables this
so money buys dev talent, polish, marketing.... its not everyting BUT its a huge advantage
How can a person think like this? I mean, really???
Companies who can do the same : Facebook, Google, Apple ....actually ANY company can do that ! Even you can do that to any other person/company which has less money then you ( and I believe there are many ) ! Same in sport. Football . Barcelona has the money to keep Messi , one of the best player out there. SO WHATS THE POINT ACTUALLY?!
Man, where have you been living?
I am failing to see any kind of a point in what you wrote - was there one?
It's ok! My above post was for someone with a bit of common sense, but ... hence, the last line !
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
How can a person think like this? I mean, really???
Companies who can do the same : Facebook, Google, Apple ....actually ANY company can do that ! Even you can do that to any other person/company which has less money then you ( and I believe there are many ) ! Same in sport. Football . Barcelona has the money to keep Messi , one of the best player out there. SO WHATS THE POINT ACTUALLY?!
It's ok! My above post was for someone with a bit of common sense, but ... hence, the last line !
Rather than resort to personal attacks why not make your post more clear? Any company can do what exactly?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How can a person think like this? I mean, really???
Companies who can do the same : Facebook, Google, Apple ....actually ANY company can do that ! Even you can do that to any other person/company which has less money then you ( and I believe there are many ) ! Same in sport. Football . Barcelona has the money to keep Messi , one of the best player out there. SO WHATS THE POINT ACTUALLY?!
It's ok! My above post was for someone with a bit of common sense, but ... hence, the last line !
Rather than resort to personal attacks why not make your post more clear? Any company can do what exactly?
Beside the companies I stated in my original post, which can do whatever he said in 1,2,3,4 points ( there are many more who can actually do the same ), , *any company can do the same!
Any = "which has more money then .. their competitors"
This .. "fight" happens on all categories, not only on companies with billions of cash in their bank accounts.
The point is, this was since .. forever. Be it gaming , cars , you name it. So from his point, every successful company will just be successful if they have the cash.
First of, Blizzard started like any small companies, with .. few-several people? They had success then, with 50 employees, they have success now with 5000 . He's just saying that Blizzard success is because of the cash. But if history has teached us something, is this : Blizzard was successful from the beginning , no matter the size / cash they had. THAT is the point this ... Kano does not want or can not understand.
Second point is , no! Cash does not make you successful nor is a HUGE advantage. Nokia? Ring a bell? Yahoo ? Which recently just got sold for ... 4-5 billions while several years ago they worth was like .. I don't know , 40 billions?
If you can't give credits to a company for what they do , at least shut up and just move on!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
How can a person think like this? I mean, really???
Companies who can do the same : Facebook, Google, Apple ....actually ANY company can do that ! Even you can do that to any other person/company which has less money then you ( and I believe there are many ) ! Same in sport. Football . Barcelona has the money to keep Messi , one of the best player out there. SO WHATS THE POINT ACTUALLY?!
It's ok! My above post was for someone with a bit of common sense, but ... hence, the last line !
Rather than resort to personal attacks why not make your post more clear? Any company can do what exactly?
Beside the companies I stated in my original post, which can do whatever he said in 1,2,3,4 points ( there are many more who can actually do the same ), , *any company can do the same!
Any = "which has more money then .. their competitors"
This .. "fight" happens on all categories, not only on companies with billions of cash in their bank accounts.
The point is, this was since .. forever. Be it gaming , cars , you name it. So from his point, every successful company will just be successful if they have the cash.
First of, Blizzard started like any small companies, with .. few-several people? They had success then, with 50 employees, they have success now with 5000 . He's just saying that Blizzard success is because of the cash. But if history has teached us something, is this : Blizzard was successful from the beginning , no matter the size / cash they had. THAT is the point this ... Kano does not want or can not understand.
Second point is , no! Cash does not make you successful nor is a HUGE advantage. Nokia? Ring a bell? Yahoo ? Which recently just got sold for ... 4-5 billions while several years ago they worth was like .. I don't know , 40 billions?
If you can't give credits to a company for what they do , at least shut up and just move on!
I think the angle DM is coming from is one of thinking many seem to still judge Blizzard based on it's past merits (what made them famous)... while Blizzard isn't that company today, they don't create new games or ideas, they operate a practice of rehashing popular formulas and use their capital to their advantage to offer a more polished product.
I don't think that is an unfair or outlandish opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
How can a person think like this? I mean, really???
Companies who can do the same : Facebook, Google, Apple ....actually ANY company can do that ! Even you can do that to any other person/company which has less money then you ( and I believe there are many ) ! Same in sport. Football . Barcelona has the money to keep Messi , one of the best player out there. SO WHATS THE POINT ACTUALLY?!
It's ok! My above post was for someone with a bit of common sense, but ... hence, the last line !
Rather than resort to personal attacks why not make your post more clear? Any company can do what exactly?
Beside the companies I stated in my original post, which can do whatever he said in 1,2,3,4 points ( there are many more who can actually do the same ), , *any company can do the same!
Any = "which has more money then .. their competitors"
This .. "fight" happens on all categories, not only on companies with billions of cash in their bank accounts.
The point is, this was since .. forever. Be it gaming , cars , you name it. So from his point, every successful company will just be successful if they have the cash.
First of, Blizzard started like any small companies, with .. few-several people? They had success then, with 50 employees, they have success now with 5000 . He's just saying that Blizzard success is because of the cash. But if history has teached us something, is this : Blizzard was successful from the beginning , no matter the size / cash they had. THAT is the point this ... Kano does not want or can not understand.
Second point is , no! Cash does not make you successful nor is a HUGE advantage. Nokia? Ring a bell? Yahoo ? Which recently just got sold for ... 4-5 billions while several years ago they worth was like .. I don't know , 40 billions?
If you can't give credits to a company for what they do , at least shut up and just move on!
I think the angle DM is coming from is one of thinking many seem to still judge Blizzard based on it's past merits (what made them famous)... while Blizzard isn't that company today, they don't create new games or ideas, they operate a practice of rehashing popular formulas and use their capital to their advantage to offer a more polished product.
I don't think that is an unfair or outlandish opinion.
You are talking like *new* ideas are just...around the corner. New ideas which ALSO work I mean.
No! If you take Blizzard credits for "HOTS, Overwatch, Hearthstone", because those are not new ideas and are just rehashed formulas taken into high polished products, then you should take off that Overwatch avatar ( as I understand you LOVE that game ) and ignore Blizz like Kano do .
You people talk like there should be several "facebook(s)" yearly , or "WoW(s)" ( actually none of those are New Ideas ) . In fact, let's just put it this way : Please .. tell me a game which is this .. "new ideas" . I would really love to hear which are the games you both are talking about!
EDIT: Seems you are not the one who has an Overwatch avatar There is this purple nick-name guy with an OW avatar and I though it is you !
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
You are talking like *new* ideas are just...around the corner. New ideas which ALSO work I mean.
No! If you take Blizzard credits for "HOTS, Overwatch, Hearthstone", because those are not new ideas and are just rehashed formulas taken into high polished products, then you should take off that Overwatch avatar ( as I understand you LOVE that game ) and ignore Blizz like Kano do .
You people talk like there should be several "facebook(s)" yearly , or "WoW(s)" ( actually none of those are New Ideas ) . In fact, let's just put it this way : Please .. tell me a game which is this .. "new ideas" . I would really love to hear which are the games you both are talking about!
EDIT: Seems you are not the one who has an Overwatch avatar There is this purple nick-name guy with an OW avatar and I though it is you !
It's probably the lack of new ideas from big names like Blizzard that causes these emotions to begin with. The companies that have the capital and resources to create something deeper squander all of it on safe bets that ensure mass capital rather than taking risks and trying something new, which new isn't the prime issue for me, it's the shallowness that bothers me. The EA's and Acti-Blizz's of the world peddle the shallow like there's no tomorrow, rather than making deeper engrossing titles, they make a bunch of small easily polished nonsense (that's how I see it anyway)...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You are talking like *new* ideas are just...around the corner. New ideas which ALSO work I mean.
No! If you take Blizzard credits for "HOTS, Overwatch, Hearthstone", because those are not new ideas and are just rehashed formulas taken into high polished products, then you should take off that Overwatch avatar ( as I understand you LOVE that game ) and ignore Blizz like Kano do .
You people talk like there should be several "facebook(s)" yearly , or "WoW(s)" ( actually none of those are New Ideas ) . In fact, let's just put it this way : Please .. tell me a game which is this .. "new ideas" . I would really love to hear which are the games you both are talking about!
EDIT: Seems you are not the one who has an Overwatch avatar There is this purple nick-name guy with an OW avatar and I though it is you !
It's probably the lack of new ideas from big names like Blizzard that causes these emotions to begin with. The companies that have the capital and resources to create something deeper squander all of it on safe bets that ensure mass capital rather than taking risks and trying something new, which new isn't the prime issue for me, it's the shallowness that bothers me. The EA's and Acti-Blizz's of the world peddle the shallow like there's no tomorrow, rather than making deeper engrossing titles, they make a bunch of small easily polished nonsense (that's how I see it anyway)...
Fair enough! Your point and I accept it while I don't agree with it. But you just can't say with your eyes open that they ( internally at least ) are not trying different ideas, things, stuffs, to come with something new. They do. I am pretty sure Titan wanted to be something new, yet , as a big % of games which want to be *new* , fails and in the end, they decided to just stop production. Wise ! I am very sure of that. And you really need to know what the fuck you are doing ( and some balls ) to just stop a product ( after 7 years ) which you are not confident with it on the long run.
Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" .
Other then that, you still didn't tell me a company and/or a game which has this .. "new" you are talking about. Oh! You just want something new which it does not exists. Well , I also do want that "new". In fact, every one of us have that "new" in mind and want to play it. But .. yeah!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
Fair enough! Your point and I accept it while I don't agree with it. But you just can't say with your eyes open that they ( internally at least ) are not trying different ideas, things, stuffs, to come with something new. They do. I am pretty sure Titan wanted to be something new, yet , as a big % of games which want to be *new* , fails and in the end, they decided to just stop production. Wise ! I am very sure of that. And you really need to know what the fuck you are doing ( and some balls ) to just stop a product ( after 7 years ) which you are not confident with it on the long run.
Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" .
Other then that, you still didn't tell me a company and/or a game which has this .. "new" you are talking about. Oh! You just want something new which it does not exists. Well , I also do want that "new". In fact, every one of us have that "new" in mind and want to play it. But .. yeah!
To be fair to myself I did say on a personal level new isn't my issue, it's wanting deeper games, which I can name a bunch of smaller studios struggling and succeeding to different degrees to put such games out. Obsidian, Larian, Bethesda, CdProjektRed, just to name a few.
If BLizzard wanted to make games like that, they most certainly could, they just don't. They certainly have the types of IP's to do it with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Fair enough! Your point and I accept it while I don't agree with it. But you just can't say with your eyes open that they ( internally at least ) are not trying different ideas, things, stuffs, to come with something new. They do. I am pretty sure Titan wanted to be something new, yet , as a big % of games which want to be *new* , fails and in the end, they decided to just stop production. Wise ! I am very sure of that. And you really need to know what the fuck you are doing ( and some balls ) to just stop a product ( after 7 years ) which you are not confident with it on the long run.
Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" .
Other then that, you still didn't tell me a company and/or a game which has this .. "new" you are talking about. Oh! You just want something new which it does not exists. Well , I also do want that "new". In fact, every one of us have that "new" in mind and want to play it. But .. yeah!
To be fair to myself I did say on a personal level new isn't my issue, it's wanting deeper games, which I can name a bunch of smaller studios struggling and succeeding to different degrees to put such games out. Obsidian, Larian, Bethesda, CdProjektRed, just to name a few.
If BLizzard wanted to make games like that, they most certainly could, they just don't. They certainly have the types of IP's to do it with.
Beside Bethesda , which I am sure you didn't named them for their ESO, all of them are none MMO companies, if I am not mistaken.
So hence , my statement "Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" ."
So there is your problem ! They can innovate a lot of things in single player games, while MMO's , well .. different story .
Yes, none of OW, HS, HOTS, D3 are ...MMO's , but they .. act like one in terms like ...they are meant only for online gaming, while .. The Witcher for exemple , well .. just single player !
So yea! Blizzard could actually enter in ANY market they want ( they proved that with OW - Shooter ) , or to make single player games! But they wont ! They were always for online multiplayer games .
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy? Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
"Again - same game - small studio that has no marketing - Overwatch wouldn't even have 1/100th of the players it has."
This is a ridiculous statement and it once again highlights your belief that Blizzard is only successful because they have money. I've asked this before a few times, but I'll ask it again- how do you think they got so much money to begin with? I'll clue you in- it wasn't from making bad games.
Overwatch is truly leagues above the competition (while granted, it's competition is Paladins, Battleborn and the 10 year old game tf2). If it wasn't made by Blizzard, it might not be as popular but to say it wouldn't be 1/100th as popular is basically stupid.
HotS is an excellent example. The game is basically an uninspired copying dud, which is the kind of game most Devs push out regularly. And it's not doing so great because of it (despite having the apparent power to multiply the playerbase by 100x just by having the Blizzard logo on the opening screen).
Personally, I have well over 300 hours in Overwatch, and just last night I was playing and said to myself "just one more game". 8 hours later I was exhausted and my life was wasted. I haven't had a game do that to me in, well basically forever with 300 hours already in it. And none of that time was I thinking "Man, this is great because it's Blizzard."
"why do you think so many devs have left Blizzard? Its not because of pay (many took pay cuts when leaving) - the corporare culture stifles creativity and passion is why."
Or... maybe they just got plain bored working on the same shit for the ancient game WoW....
Anywho, as to the OP, I think Blizzard by now has a ton of experience with e-sports with Starcraft 2's popularity in Korea and Hearthstone's popularity worldwide. This has helped them figure out what works and what doesn't in e-sports.
money is not the only reason but it helps A LOT
Blizzard made money hy making excellent games like Diablo 1 and 2 and Starcraft 1
WoW made them HUGE
But to ignore the luxories that billion dollar earnings make for them is absurd:
1. They can outbid all other game companies if they want to hire a dev they want for a salary that other dev studios cant afford - how? Money
2. They can afford to scrap a $40 million internal project that wasnt good enough. How many other dev studios can afford to do this? Yeah money.
3. they can afford to go overbudget and release a polished game - again money. other studios run out of funds and release a hot mess
4. Marketing - spend more than what othet studios spend on development to ensure killer sales - again money enables this
so money buys dev talent, polish, marketing.... its not everyting BUT its a huge advantage
Sure, but the fact remains they started by making, by your words, 4 "excellent games". This was before they were mega-rich bleeding money out of their ears.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
I'd also suggest treating your players well. So many Devs nowadays seem to almost treat their customers with contempt and monetize their games to basically trick them out of money.
The guy above nailed it all. SC2 is just a shadow of the original SC in terms of esport strenght, HotS is on the same level as Smite appeal, made by a much smaller company. D3 was fun for 2-3 runs but got bored fast whereas I still play D2.
Overwatch has a hit yes, which I still don't understand why.
It's quite simple. No game was filling the niche of hero/ability based fps. TF2 exists, but it's a 10 year old game, horribly balanced and heavily focused on the fps side of things (basically an fps+abilities).
Overwatch is balanced, hero/ability focused, casual friendly with heroes that literally don't have to aim but deep enough to reward skillful play and it's a legitimate e-sport.
Games playing as a hero that uses abilities were already popular with MOBAs or even battlegrounds in MMOs. No game before Overwatch meshed that idea with an fps very well.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k from kickstarter.
You guys are tripping over your heals trying to excuse devs making shit games.
These Devs are making shitty clones, treating their customers like shit, and you guys are saying they have to do it because they're poor. That's fucking asinine.
You're also acting like if any Dev was handed millions of dollars, they'd automatically make an excellent game like Overwatch. That's obviously not true- look at SWTOR with it's 200 million dollar pricetag.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I'm sure a lot, who made it though? Can you say without looking it up? I certainly can't...
One title (especially a unique yet small scale indie title) isn't going to lead to the standing Blizzard has achieved, not by a long shot. They have to repeat that, they're not going to get there without making something truly big as well as unique. Which will cost more than 300k. That much I can guarantee, CDprojekt may be one modern studio to reach that type of pedestal, they still have a long way to go, they can't afford many if any screw ups along the way. Polish is very important in that climb, meaning funding is key. Again reaching the level you're suggesting by making excellent games is no easy feat, it's also much harder than it was years ago when Blizzard did so..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I'm sure a lot, who made it though? Can you say without looking it up? I certainly can't...
One title (especially a unique yet small scale indie title) isn't going to lead to the standing Blizzard has achieved, not by a long shot. They have to repeat that, they're not going to get there without making something truly big as well as unique. Which will cost more than 300k. That much I can guarantee, CDprojekt may be one modern studio to reach that type of pedestal, they still have a long way to go, they can't afford many if any screw ups along the way. Polish is very important in that climb, meaning funding is key. Again reaching the level you're suggesting by making excellent games is no easy feat, it's also much harder than it was years ago when Blizzard did so..
You can always find an excuse why success is elusive. You're saying the times are too hard. That's a common one.
Btw, Minecraft was made with crap graphics, a small budget and employed zero dollars in marketing. It's doing ok. And it was made nowadays in these times where it's apparently impossible to turn a profit without millions in polish and marketing.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
I replied long ago, which you certainly have't read yet as you've been writing a book as an edit.
I didn't say DD isn't a success, it is, but it's no where in the ball park of getting that studio any where near Blizzards level of success.. Not where they can be as comfortable financially as DM was pointing out. Releasing one game by two people for 300k is a lot different than running a multi million dollar project for a publisher with strict deadlines and no fall back wealth to ensure polish for a large scale game. You're totally shifting the goal post by bringing up a small indie project like that and using it in reference to the argument you entered. That's not even losing perspective that's being completely disingenuous.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You can always find an excuse why success is elusive. You're saying the times are too hard. That's a common one.
Btw, Minecraft was made with crap graphics, a small budget and employed zero dollars in marketing. It's doing ok. And it was made nowadays in these times where it's apparently impossible to turn a profit without millions in polish and marketing.
WOW! and where is that company now? That's right.. no where. One title means squat on this topic, you're not getting to Blizzard's levels of success and comfortability that way because you need repeated success. Which is not easy to do, you're either missing the point or playing obtuse at this stage in this argument. You're also using the exceptions as the rule.
The creator of minecraft also tried making an equally generic game as a follow up, it went no where and who's heard of him since? Why because expectations today. people expected more as a follow up.. it's a different environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I'm sure a lot, who made it though? Can you say without looking it up? I certainly can't...
One title (especially a unique yet small scale indie title) isn't going to lead to the standing Blizzard has achieved, not by a long shot. They have to repeat that, they're not going to get there without making something truly big as well as unique. Which will cost more than 300k. That much I can guarantee, CDprojekt may be one modern studio to reach that type of pedestal, they still have a long way to go, they can't afford many if any screw ups along the way. Polish is very important in that climb, meaning funding is key. Again reaching the level you're suggesting by making excellent games is no easy feat, it's also much harder than it was years ago when Blizzard did so..
People expect a lot more today. The art work in modern AAA games is phenomenal it's a lot more expensive to produce these games than it was years ago.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
I replied long ago, which you certainly have't read yet as you've been writing a book as an edit.
I didn't say DD isn't a success, it is, but it's no where in the ball park of getting that studio any where near Blizzards level of success.. Not where they can be as comfortable financially as DM was pointing out. Releasing one game by two people for 300k is a lot different than running a multi million dollar project for a publisher with strict deadlines and no fall back wealth to ensure polish for a large scale game. You're totally shifting the goal post by bringing up a small indie project like that and using it in reference to the argument you entered. That's not even losing perspective that's being completely disingenuous.
Hmm, well if it's so difficult for indie companies to handle a multi-million dollar project as their first game, maybe they shouldn't attempt it?
You're still missing the point, though, unsurprisingly. You can make money with small games even in these times where it's apparently impossible to make a game unless you're already established for 10 years. Sure 13 million dollars for Darkest Dungeon isn't as much as Overwatch has made, but when you're paying 2 the salary for exactly 2 devs, it's quite enough.
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
I replied long ago, which you certainly have't read yet as you've been writing a book as an edit.
I didn't say DD isn't a success, it is, but it's no where in the ball park of getting that studio any where near Blizzards level of success.. Not where they can be as comfortable financially as DM was pointing out. Releasing one game by two people for 300k is a lot different than running a multi million dollar project for a publisher with strict deadlines and no fall back wealth to ensure polish for a large scale game. You're totally shifting the goal post by bringing up a small indie project like that and using it in reference to the argument you entered. That's not even losing perspective that's being completely disingenuous.
Hmm, well if it's so difficult for indie companies to handle a multi-million dollar project as their first game, maybe they shouldn't attempt it?
Maybe we should just leave game development for multi billion dollar corporate conglomerates
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
Making a excellent rated game now is a lot different than making excellent games back then, expectations have changed drastically since then. Back then polish wasn't as important of a factor, this is the biggest reason it's hard to reach that type of success today, money needed for polish is far from BS, it's the key factor between success and failure for a number of studios. Especially those beholden to budgets and release schedules set by third parties. A company like Blizz doesn't have to worry about such realities of today, a stinker isn't going to break the bank for them, they don't even have to release one to recoup it's development costs. Comparing them to most of the studios making the games they're competing against is asinine TBH.
That's just plain bullshit. Darkest Dungeon is an excellent game and it was made with like $300k.
What does that game have to do with it? You're comparing that to large scale titles? It was a title that only needed 300k in funding to see success, that's not going to put them at Blizzard levels of success or reputation lol.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
How much has Darkest Dungeon made?
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
I replied long ago, which you certainly have't read yet as you've been writing a book as an edit.
I didn't say DD isn't a success, it is, but it's no where in the ball park of getting that studio any where near Blizzards level of success.. Not where they can be as comfortable financially as DM was pointing out. Releasing one game by two people for 300k is a lot different than running a multi million dollar project for a publisher with strict deadlines and no fall back wealth to ensure polish for a large scale game. You're totally shifting the goal post by bringing up a small indie project like that and using it in reference to the argument you entered. That's not even losing perspective that's being completely disingenuous.
Hmm, well if it's so difficult for indie companies to handle a multi-million dollar project as their first game, maybe they shouldn't attempt it?
You're still missing the point, though, unsurprisingly. You can make money with small games even in these times where it's apparently impossible to make a game unless you're already established for 10 years. Sure 13 million dollars for Darkest Dungeon isn't as much as Overwatch has made, but when you're paying 2 the salary for exactly 2 devs, it's quite enough.
To satisfy the public's need for graphics requires sums of capital that is very hard to come by if you have to raise it.
Hmm, well if it's so difficult for indie companies to handle a multi-million dollar project as their first game, maybe they shouldn't attempt it?
You're still missing the point, though, unsurprisingly. You can make money with small games even in these times where it's apparently impossible to make a game unless you're already established for 10 years. Sure 13 million dollars for Darkest Dungeon isn't as much as Overwatch has made, but when you're paying 2 the salary for exactly 2 devs, it's quite enough.
LOL you're going to question my comprehension when you're still spouting on about indies? You said in reply to Kano's point that you suggest people make excellent games so they can do that to. Then shift the goals to indies who no matter their success will not be able to reach that level of success, nor need worry about putting out huge games on huge budgets that need polishing. You're supplying the apples to Kano's oranges here.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Any = "which has more money then .. their competitors"
This .. "fight" happens on all categories, not only on companies with billions of cash in their bank accounts.
The point is, this was since .. forever. Be it gaming , cars , you name it. So from his point, every successful company will just be successful if they have the cash.
First of, Blizzard started like any small companies, with .. few-several people? They had success then, with 50 employees, they have success now with 5000 . He's just saying that Blizzard success is because of the cash. But if history has teached us something, is this : Blizzard was successful from the beginning , no matter the size / cash they had. THAT is the point this ... Kano does not want or can not understand.
Second point is , no! Cash does not make you successful nor is a HUGE advantage. Nokia? Ring a bell? Yahoo ? Which recently just got sold for ... 4-5 billions while several years ago they worth was like .. I don't know , 40 billions?
If you can't give credits to a company for what they do , at least shut up and just move on!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
I don't think that is an unfair or outlandish opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
No! If you take Blizzard credits for "HOTS, Overwatch, Hearthstone", because those are not new ideas and are just rehashed formulas taken into high polished products, then you should take off that Overwatch avatar ( as I understand you LOVE that game ) and ignore Blizz like Kano do .
You people talk like there should be several "facebook(s)" yearly , or "WoW(s)" ( actually none of those are New Ideas ) . In fact, let's just put it this way : Please .. tell me a game which is this .. "new ideas" . I would really love to hear which are the games you both are talking about!
EDIT: Seems you are not the one who has an Overwatch avatar
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" .
Other then that, you still didn't tell me a company and/or a game which has this .. "new" you are talking about. Oh! You just want something new which it does not exists. Well , I also do want that "new". In fact, every one of us have that "new" in mind and want to play it. But .. yeah!
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
If BLizzard wanted to make games like that, they most certainly could, they just don't. They certainly have the types of IP's to do it with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So hence , my statement "Anyway! I repeat myself. You can't have "new" every day, every year, even every 10 years it seems. If you want new, go play single player games , where I think you will find plenty of ..."new" ."
So there is your problem ! They can innovate a lot of things in single player games, while MMO's , well .. different story .
Yes, none of OW, HS, HOTS, D3 are ...MMO's , but they .. act like one in terms like ...they are meant only for online gaming, while .. The Witcher for exemple , well .. just single player !
So yea! Blizzard could actually enter in ANY market they want ( they proved that with OW - Shooter ) , or to make single player games! But they wont ! They were always for online multiplayer games .
Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!
What I would suggest other Devs do is make excellent games. Complaining that they don't have the money to compete is bullshit. Blizzard made excellent games when others had more money.
I'd also suggest treating your players well. So many Devs nowadays seem to almost treat their customers with contempt and monetize their games to basically trick them out of money.
Overwatch is balanced, hero/ability focused, casual friendly with heroes that literally don't have to aim but deep enough to reward skillful play and it's a legitimate e-sport.
Games playing as a hero that uses abilities were already popular with MOBAs or even battlegrounds in MMOs. No game before Overwatch meshed that idea with an fps very well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You guys are tripping over your heals trying to excuse devs making shit games.
These Devs are making shitty clones, treating their customers like shit, and you guys are saying they have to do it because they're poor. That's fucking asinine.
You're also acting like if any Dev was handed millions of dollars, they'd automatically make an excellent game like Overwatch. That's obviously not true- look at SWTOR with it's 200 million dollar pricetag.
Perspective <-- I think you lost it...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I did some quick math, and they made 43x the amount it cost to make.
It's you who has completely lost perspective if you think that's not a success.
Anyway, the point you seem to be missing is Darkest Dungeon was made by 2 guys for 300k and it made millions. Your concept that there is no room in today's gaming marketplace for smaller games is patently untrue (and I can give plenty more examples).
To be clear since it seems you are having trouble understanding, I'm not suggesting a small dev team attempt to make Overwatch. I suggest they make excellent games like Starcraft, Warcraft, Diablo and WoW. Then when they get rich, they can attempt to put in the money and pay for the talent that it requires to make a game as good as Overwatch.
And again- treat your customers well. Blizzard doesn't have such a great reputation from gamers (of all people to try to maintain a good rep with) for nothing.
You guys are acting like small indie devs should be able to just put out Overwatch as their first game, and it's unfair they can't and have to compete with it. You're completely discounting the decades of work Blizzard put into gaming and its corporate reputation that allowed it to make the game.
If anything, I think this is the biggest mistake small indie devs make- they bite off more than they can chew. They shoot too big and the games end up either shit or buggy and the tank the company.
One title (especially a unique yet small scale indie title) isn't going to lead to the standing Blizzard has achieved, not by a long shot. They have to repeat that, they're not going to get there without making something truly big as well as unique. Which will cost more than 300k. That much I can guarantee, CDprojekt may be one modern studio to reach that type of pedestal, they still have a long way to go, they can't afford many if any screw ups along the way. Polish is very important in that climb, meaning funding is key. Again reaching the level you're suggesting by making excellent games is no easy feat, it's also much harder than it was years ago when Blizzard did so..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Btw, Minecraft was made with crap graphics, a small budget and employed zero dollars in marketing. It's doing ok. And it was made nowadays in these times where it's apparently impossible to turn a profit without millions in polish and marketing.
I didn't say DD isn't a success, it is, but it's no where in the ball park of getting that studio any where near Blizzards level of success.. Not where they can be as comfortable financially as DM was pointing out. Releasing one game by two people for 300k is a lot different than running a multi million dollar project for a publisher with strict deadlines and no fall back wealth to ensure polish for a large scale game. You're totally shifting the goal post by bringing up a small indie project like that and using it in reference to the argument you entered. That's not even losing perspective that's being completely disingenuous.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The creator of minecraft also tried making an equally generic game as a follow up, it went no where and who's heard of him since? Why because expectations today. people expected more as a follow up.. it's a different environment.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
You're still missing the point, though, unsurprisingly. You can make money with small games even in these times where it's apparently impossible to make a game unless you're already established for 10 years. Sure 13 million dollars for Darkest Dungeon isn't as much as Overwatch has made, but when you're paying 2 the salary for exactly 2 devs, it's quite enough.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson