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'NMS Was a Mistake' - Dev Truth or Server Hack?

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  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 2,863
    edited October 2016
    bartoni33 said:
    Sigh...

    I'm very adverse to have to get @SEANMCAD back, although I do find his posts awesome at times, I'll break it down for you guys:

    "Point of Purchase" or "POP" in retail terms basically means the area, physical or online, where you put your money down.

    He is saying that from hard launch and after of NMS nowhere in either the physical POP or online POP did it state multiplayer enabled.That is true.

    He is ignoring preorders obviously. That is all he is saying.

    Not much I know.

    EDIT: Actually I totally missed his whole point, I think.

    I think what he is arguing is that no where ever on any POP did it state Multiplayer enabled. The only time MP was uttered was from The Bearded Hipster One's mouth. So his stance is that if it wasn't listed as a component of the game in writing on POP then you should have no expectations of it, even if the Lead Dev stated it could happen.
    I strongly disagree.

    I may not be a lawyer, but I have studied this type of thing in depth; I have a MBA in International Business.

    For what it's worth: as a company officer, you can't go on national television and strongly imply that your product will have X feature, then expect to get away scott-free because at the point of purchase it didn't indicate anywhere in writing that your product would have that feature.  At best, this is underhanded and dishonest.  It may even be illegal marketing.

    Let me explain: as you bring up Point of Purchase I'm assuming you know that a retail purchase constitutes a contract.  It's reasonable to assume that someone purchasing No Man's Sky would have seen at least one of the interviews where the Managing Director of Hello Games stated that 'other players could see you' and 'you can grief other players a little bit'.

    Now, this is where it gets a bit complex; stating something doesn't mean that it has to be set in stone, and I think that's why some fans (or even bystanders) feel aggrieved that NMS is taking so much flak.  The problem is that Hello Games did nothing to publicly correct these assertions by their lead developer.  Sure, he might have stated 'don't expect a multiplayer experience', but he also tweeted this the day before launch:



    "Pretty much zero" is not the same thing as "zero", which two players found out on launch day when they stood in the same spot and could not see each other.

    So... you have a contract which was set up by Sean making repeated public statements to the effect of 'oh, you could potentially run into other players but our world is so large it will probably never happen' up until the day before launch... which turned out to be complete bogus.

    Sorry... but Hello Games doesn't get a free pass on this from me.  The game may be beautiful, their advertising was not.  It's laughable to imply that players should feel foolish for feeling misled.  I can easily see how some people might feel that way.
    Post edited by Phaserlight on

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 4 tracks in Distance

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    bartoni33 said:
    Sigh...

    I'm very adverse to have to get @SEANMCAD back, although I do find his posts awesome at times, I'll break it down for you guys:

    "Point of Purchase" or "POP" in retail terms basically means the area, physical or online, where you put your money down.

    He is saying that from hard launch and after of NMS nowhere in either the physical POP or online POP did it state multiplayer enabled.That is true.

    He is ignoring preorders obviously. That is all he is saying.

    Not much I know.

    EDIT: Actually I totally missed his whole point, I think.

    I think what he is arguing is that no where ever on any POP did it state Multiplayer enabled. The only time MP was uttered was from The Bearded Hipster One's mouth. So his stance is that if it wasn't listed as a component of the game in writing on POP then you should have no expectations of it, even if the Lead Dev stated it could happen.
    NOPE!  Here is what he said:

    "at the point of purcahse when the transaction took place, I do not believe there are people who believed that there was multiplayer in the game at that time. "

    He said nothing about looking at POP or at the "hard launch".  He said "when the transaction took place" which the majority of transactions took place well before the launch of the game via preorder. 

    Lets assume you are correct though.  What if I watched the Colbert show and saw Sean speak of multiplayer and then decided to buy the game.  I wait until launch day and then go down to my local gamestop and buy it.  Could I possible still believe that the game had some form of multiplayer?  ABSOLUTELY!

    Most stores dont have big sellers on the shelf, you ask for it at the counter and they grab it for you.  The majority of people dont look at the box, they go in knowing what they want and what they expect from the game based on advertising and reviews.  Almost ALL advertising at the very least hinted at some form of multiplayer so why in the world, would anyone state that no one could possibly believe multiplayer was in the game at purchase?

    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • SquireXSquireX Member UncommonPosts: 82
    fearu said:
    "oops we were hacked" - said everyone who later regretted their tweet ever.





  • RobbgobbRobbgobb Member UncommonPosts: 655
    This is one that is so funny. So at point of purchase of a Big Mac for someone who has only seen the commercials is at fault for buying it and not being happy because it is not what the commercial looks like is the argument that is being used in buying the game. Even though most people I know don't really read the box for a game they are getting at release.

    This sounds like someone mad at people who are displeased with something that they bought with different expectations. Life is not fair and humans for sure are willing to unfair in response to what they consider wrong. This is one where the defender and the people who massively rated the game negative. I think the disappointed people had a right to be upset. Point of purchase is one that the box does not have all the information or even correct information all the time. That is a very much something I would expect from a blind defender of justice.

    The game was hyped. The game did not live up to the hype. I am glad I bought a different game and could not afford it. I did not care about multiplayer. Glad that people who trust devs get told they are wrong because they did not read the box at release. Sounds like being told that one should wait for games till in bargain bin so will know everything necessary for a game they are interested in.
  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 753
    I never expected the game to have multiplayer, but that was mostly because I didn't think they had the ability to do it. I remember people talking about multiplayer even a week before the game was released, so obviously many people thought it was going to be in the game.

    It baffles me why someone would think another is lying about believing something wrong. Usually people don't like to admit to mistakes.

    Also, when I typically preorder a game, I usually do it because I know I want to play it no matter what. When I do that, I almost never keep looking up information about the game. I didn't get NMS, but if I did preorder it, I would not have known about the changes that were opposite of what was said to be in the game, until it arrived in the mail and I loaded it up. I bet a lot of people do that.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 796
    It wasn't that it was a feature that wouldn't be included in launch.  It's that they blatantly lied up until release about features and the scope of the game.  They deserve everything they are getting and more.  Not because they failed to deliver, but that they KNEW what they were saying was a lie and said it anyways.  The point being to sell more pre-orders to make more money.  They have been virtually silent since and almost no updates for the game.  They also have not addressed the very valid issues the community has brought up.  How anyone can defend them is mind boggling.  Do you feel sorry for Bernie Madoff too?  
  • dotdotdashdotdotdash Member UncommonPosts: 476

    SEANMCAD said:


    Muke said:


    SEANMCAD said:



    I am not trying to defend Sony or Hello on this but I have to say the community was fairly trollish about this whole thing


    No, he blatantly built hype to extreme heights, admit it, this game was the Holy Grail of gaiming for the next decade as the hype was built.
    Then this game releases, enormous amounts of ppl preorder and buy it, and then the game proved to be a dud.

    So yeah, disgruntled players loved to burn the game down.

    That's what happens with dissatisfied customers who have been lied to.
    They do not have the power to sue them, so how to get back at the devs?

    'Burn the game to the ground and the devs reps along with them.'




    let me try to answer your question by asking you a point blank concrete question of which I will hope to receive an honest answer from and said question SHOULD illustrate the point I am making but if not I will explain

    Do you think anyone bought the game thinking there was actually multiplayer in it?



    You're hilarious. You're just a raging fanbro.

    Yes, many people purchased the game thinking there would be some degree of multiplayer experience... because Sean said - on one of the largest chat shows in the US - that there would be some degree of multiplayer experience. Most people won't have seen his later retraction, which was posted in a short tweet and only given coverage on a tiny portion of gaming-focused sites and publications.

  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 2,863
    edited October 2016

    SEANMCAD said:


    Muke said:


    SEANMCAD said:



    I am not trying to defend Sony or Hello on this but I have to say the community was fairly trollish about this whole thing


    No, he blatantly built hype to extreme heights, admit it, this game was the Holy Grail of gaiming for the next decade as the hype was built.
    Then this game releases, enormous amounts of ppl preorder and buy it, and then the game proved to be a dud.

    So yeah, disgruntled players loved to burn the game down.

    That's what happens with dissatisfied customers who have been lied to.
    They do not have the power to sue them, so how to get back at the devs?

    'Burn the game to the ground and the devs reps along with them.'




    let me try to answer your question by asking you a point blank concrete question of which I will hope to receive an honest answer from and said question SHOULD illustrate the point I am making but if not I will explain

    Do you think anyone bought the game thinking there was actually multiplayer in it?



    You're hilarious. You're just a raging fanbro.

    Yes, many people purchased the game thinking there would be some degree of multiplayer experience... because Sean said - on one of the largest chat shows in the US - that there would be some degree of multiplayer experience. Most people won't have seen his later retraction, which was posted in a short tweet and only given coverage on a tiny portion of gaming-focused sites and publications.

    I don't recall him ever unequivocally correcting or retracting his previous assertions.  This is partly what is so baffling, to me.  If you are referring to this tweet:



    ...it was followed up with the tweet I linked to above, on the same day:



    To me, this translates to 'No Man's Sky is not a multiplayer game, please don't go in looking for that experience -> to clarify: it's not multiplayer because our game world is so large you will probably never run across another player'

    Context matters.

    In other words, this wasn't a retraction at all: it was a 'let's hope they fall for this explanation of why you can't ever see other players' covering of bases.

    If he had left it at just the first tweet, that would have been enough, imo.  However, the follow-up tweet makes it look like he is not backing down from anything he said on live national television; it's the equivalent of an apology-but-I'm-still-totally-right performance.  This was a very bad move, because really Sean's previous statements didn't have a leg to stand on.

    The rest is history, as the saying goes.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 4 tracks in Distance

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