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Why so much hate for SWTOR?

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  • RidelynnRidelynn Member EpicPosts: 6,575
    I resub on occasion (I actually just did a couple of days ago). My wife really likes it (she is a huge Star Wars nut). She's held a sub for a long while now.

    @gervaise1 hit the nail on the head. Expectations were through the roof. SWG had been shut down so this game could have the license (that may not be exactly true, but that's what it felt like). WoW was riding high and had just hit their peak subscriber numbers (Cata had been out for a few months by then). Trion just hit it pretty big with Rift, TERA was out in SK and was being localized for the west, GW2 hype was also through the roof, and the MMO genre was probably at it's peak in terms of just raw number of players.

    There was almost no way ~any~ developer could match the amount of hype that there was for this game release. Bioware was pretty well king of the RPG in the West. The game had been hinted at and teased for nearly four years prior to it's release (right after the release of Episode 3 in the theater, when SW popularity was fairly high). Star Wars was the iconic IP (just before Disney purchased it). Bioware had two earlier acclaimed Star Wars RPGs to boot. And the backing of the entirety of Electronic Arts with a multi-hundreds of Millions of dollar budget.

    But it was to be Bioware's first MMO and EA hadn't done a lot in the space since Ultima Online. That was the biggest problem in my opinion.

    What we got was... just an OK game. Good class stories, great musical score, a bit repetitive in questing, not quite open world. And voice acting. Tons upon tons upon hours of voice acting. A clumsy graphics engine and art direction that kinda fell down all over the place. Nothing to really do once you finished up your class quest except start another class. Promised open world PvP that did not work and could not work. It was as if the universe let out a collective facepalm.

    A lot of people were angry, and there were some legitimate reasons to be disappointed, but most of it I think were just player expectations that were self-inflicted and impossible to achieve in the same time frame. There were a lot of reasons the game turned out the way it did, but that doesn't really matter. We got what we got. 

    To me, it was pretty clear EA had a lot of corporate expectations placed on the project. WoW was doing well, the suits saw that, and you can see the trickle down effect very plainly (and painfully) in the game. Bioware wasn't (still isn't?) a great multiplayer developer - you can tell they didn't really know what to do with the huge budget they were handed, so it seems like they blew it all on hookers and blow voice acting, and the game engine budget was extremely starved. You can tell the art direction was also hamstrung by the graphics engine capabilities. Open World PvP proved impossible to implement.

    Like I said, I still sub on occasion - usually long enough to polish off another class quest, start another, and realize the planet and zone quests are just too repetitive for me to keep with the more rare class story quests.  SWTOR is an ~awesome~ single player game but it's not a great MMO.
    gervaise1Kriggles
  • PhryPhry Member EpicPosts: 10,214
    Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had not chosen to use the hero engine, as that was wholly to blame for the games performance even in terms of multiplayer numbers in an area, it was wholly responsible for what happened with the games PVP, when end game activities are so badly affected by poor game engine performance the choice of game engine makes so little sense, really have to wonder at who chose it and why. :/
  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,259
    edited January 2018
    I don't know why this thread is back.  There isn't much HATE anymore.  Nobody really talks about it anymore.  At this point it's 'indifference' which characterizes the game.
    Post edited by mgilbrtsn on
    bartoni33gervaise1

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,456
    Phry said:
    Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had not chosen to use the hero engine, as that was wholly to blame for the games performance even in terms of multiplayer numbers in an area, it was wholly responsible for what happened with the games PVP, when end game activities are so badly affected by poor game engine performance the choice of game engine makes so little sense, really have to wonder at who chose it and why. :/
    Which other engine would they use then?
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 1,064
    Gorwe said:
    Phry said:
    Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had not chosen to use the hero engine, as that was wholly to blame for the games performance even in terms of multiplayer numbers in an area, it was wholly responsible for what happened with the games PVP, when end game activities are so badly affected by poor game engine performance the choice of game engine makes so little sense, really have to wonder at who chose it and why. :/
    Which other engine would they use then?
    Unreal are always nice and easy to work with.
  • WylfWylf Member UncommonPosts: 366
    @filmoret just curious, what prompted this post. 
  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,058
    filmoret said:
    Why do so many people hate this game?  I cannot understand it myself.  I find the game to be fun and the story to be good.  I'm not saying its the best game in the world by any means but its at least a 7-8/10.  So is your beef with the game something in your head or does it really exist?
    Many reasons...

    1.) SWG

    Old Vets who quit after the NGE who were hoping for SWG2, even though Bioware made it clear from the very beginning that this wasn't happening.

    Players of the current version of SWG were pissed because their game was shutting down and blamed TOR..

    2.) KOTOR

    Fans of of KOTOR 1 and 2 wanted a part 3 and got an MMO instead.

    There are many who were simply disappointed for various reasons: sterile environments, no open world PVP, choice of engine etc.etc. But the hate train this game attracted can be found with those groups mentioned. It's not as bad now as it was back during production and after launch. Seriously, some of those posters needed some major therapy for the whining and complaining that they were doing over their game shutting down and how DARE Bioware create a Star Wars game that wasn't like SWG. 

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,058
    Phry said:
    Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had not chosen to use the hero engine, as that was wholly to blame for the games performance even in terms of multiplayer numbers in an area, it was wholly responsible for what happened with the games PVP, when end game activities are so badly affected by poor game engine performance the choice of game engine makes so little sense, really have to wonder at who chose it and why. :/
    If I was to pick the biggest mistake Bioware made it would be this one. The engine simply can't handle hundreds of players on screen at one time. There was youtube clips of Ilum about a month in and I was astonished with how laggy it was. 
    Phry

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • Ricardo5802Ricardo5802 Member UncommonPosts: 23
    edited June 2018
    When this game was announced I expected it to have the gameplay combat of the Jedi Academy games and not the crap it ended up as, a complete WoW clone with Star Wars Stories instead, because that is the only thing good it has IMO, the 1-50 Stories, everything else is not that great.

    But then again this is EA so, if they can laze off with game development, use the least, cheapest resources possible and with only the quick buck in mind, they'll do it to the best of their abilities.
    Post edited by Ricardo5802 on
  • JeffSpicoliJeffSpicoli Member EpicPosts: 2,185
    This game needs to die already so a new Star Wars MMO can be made 

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,456
    ktanner3 said:
    Phry said:
    Makes you wonder what would have happened if they had not chosen to use the hero engine, as that was wholly to blame for the games performance even in terms of multiplayer numbers in an area, it was wholly responsible for what happened with the games PVP, when end game activities are so badly affected by poor game engine performance the choice of game engine makes so little sense, really have to wonder at who chose it and why. :/
    If I was to pick the biggest mistake Bioware made it would be this one. The engine simply can't handle hundreds of players on screen at one time. There was youtube clips of Ilum about a month in and I was astonished with how laggy it was. 
    The biggest mistake was that they got on the WoW hype train in the first place. And they did it overlate. Beautiful.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member EpicPosts: 8,110
    I still play the starter planets when I have the time, and even some of the continuing story.  Logged in not to long ago and found a character boost acted to my account.  I've not seen the game empty even on the starter planets.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GorweGorwe Member EpicPosts: 5,456
    I am waiting to see how 6,0 will turn out. Zakuul wasn't really so cool as they thought it'd be. I'm glad it's over. Further, I don't have any reason to play anymore because I recorded everything I wanted to. I still love firing up some parts of them. Mostly Smuggler, Trooper and Knight.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Member EpicPosts: 2,967
    I can't deal with Siths wearing purple makeup and using purple sweaters like some glam metal band. The starting area npc's looks like a cheap Apocalypse cosplayers... or the apocalypse from the movie, which is the worse.
    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • SephirosoSephiroso Member RarePosts: 1,960
    So, ill preface this with i haven't played or thought about swtor in years. Some of the things i'm about to say could very well have changed in the years. When i gave SWTOR a shot, it has already went f2p. I was immediately turned off with the advantages paying players got. It was definitely in the p2w category of advantages instead of convenience.

    Free players actually got REDUCED exp for instance which i thought was insane. It was the first f2p game that actively punished players for not paying. Usually in a game, a paying player gets more exp which is fine, but this game did that AND REDUCED exp for not playing too. It was ludicrous.

    The other thing was that in order to get the good loot, you had to pay as well. Also you were limited in how many dungeons you could even do, same for pvp if i'm not mistaken. The entire list of advantages was just so egregious i stopped right then and there because the game wasn't worth the price when i could get just as much fun out of other games for cheaper.

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    Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

  • Viper482Viper482 Member EpicPosts: 2,206
    Because we wanted a Star Wars MMO....
    Make MMORPG's Great Again!
  • DvoraDvora Member UncommonPosts: 434
    It's just a borefest thats all...  Was tolerable for 30 levels the first go around then... Bleh...
  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,058
    edited June 2018
    thunderC said:
    This game needs to die already so a new Star Wars MMO can be made 
    If the game shuts down, what makes you so sure that another one would be made?  This would be the second Star Wars MMO to shut down in the last 15 years. Many companies have lost a lot of money trying to enter this genre and many have taken notice. Even with WOWs success, Blizzard has shown no interest in making a sequal or any other MMO for that matter. 
    Post edited by ktanner3 on
    Kriggles

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn Member EpicPosts: 3,259
    Someones been digging into the past  :/

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,570
  • syltmackasyltmacka Member UncommonPosts: 331
    because the devs doesnt care about the game anymore. just want money money money.
  • PpiperPpiper Member UncommonPosts: 905
    I used to love the game until I realized how boxed in I was. I wanted to explore the different worlds, but there was really nothing to explore with their invisible walls and stilted NPC's. Just meh after awhile.
  • someforumguysomeforumguy Member RarePosts: 3,967
    - I only like a few classes story wise (agent and BH). And even these fall short because beyond class story, in the expansions it becomes the same for any class mostly and destroys replayability.
    - I hate melee in this game (I usually play melee in a MMORPG).
    - The worlds, don't feel like worlds. Especially the city planets with their few disconnected zones. I started to hate those fake backdrops. Even Mos Eisley from old Star Wars Galaxies felt more convincing to me.
    - This game can make you feel lonely on those planets.
    - I hate that the central hubs is in space on those shitty fleets and that they let players run around on their huge mounts. It is ridiculously silly.
    - I hate the map system in this game. It is one of the worst I experienced in a MMORPG.
    - You can't be neutral.
    - A bounty hunter is just a class name. The bounty hunt system they introduced can be done by any class.
    - Another shitty housing system. Why do developers act as if housing in MMORPG is just for decorating?

    But yeah, my main reason :

    I really wanted to like it, but I just got bored quite fast. It has to do with how the classes play and how limited the planets feel. Even Kashyyyk from SWG feels more convincing then any SWTOR planet. 

    I guess I was spoiled by preNGE SWG and late NGE SWG. SWTOR is a game on rails compared, with just better story. Just play through story once on both factions and you have seen it. The rest is just a polished shitty themepark.

  • WarWitchWarWitch Member UncommonPosts: 197
    Its not SWG, if you are having fun enjoy it.

    You can have fun with the girl down the street but once you go out with the HAG that make your toes tremble and you ,,,.
  • IncomparableIncomparable Member UncommonPosts: 1,086
    edited August 2018
    filmoret said:
    Why do so many people hate this game?  I cannot understand it myself.  I find the game to be fun and the story to be good.  I'm not saying its the best game in the world by any means but its at least a 7-8/10.  So is your beef with the game something in your head or does it really exist?
    For a game to pay for fun, yes its fun despite the ridiculous grind that existed in vanilla swtor. 

    However, that is for the single player as aspect.

    The does fall short, and the problem is that it is a SW game. It is meant to be a place holder for SW games, at least in the MMO aspect, and it does fall short. That was at release.

    A few years later, and they do not have that much content tagged to their game.

    If you calculate all the money that was put into the game, and the end result, it make you see the game a bit too critically that its lacking based on what it could be, and a few years later is the same result, that once a person plays through the game, there is not much reason to go back.

    However, for a new player, without the insane vanilla swtor grind, its a great game to introduce to someone.

    Shortly after they might come to a similar conclusion that they have played the game, and there is not much to do.

    Unless they enjoy repeating instances, playing fotm for pvp, or just being the under dog in pvp since its unbalanced.

    It really is a shame that the game has become what it has since as stated it is a beloved IP, and its a placeholder for SW MMOs and even other games. For example if swtor was not an mmo, then it would be kotor 3, then after a few years they would have made kotor 4 etc etc

    I could go into more detail, which I am guessing other people have pointed out in the game as lacking such as Ilum pvp etc etc

    There are postives, sure, but people are comparing swtor as a large IP to other MMOs. And the question is, does it give similar value in gameplay? For example WoW expansions are much larger.
    Post edited by Incomparable on

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

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