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Why so much hate for SWTOR?

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  • Joseph_KerrJoseph_Kerr Member RarePosts: 1,113
    I think people were just expecting more from a game (I know I was) with the Star Wars brand. What they got was an uninspired themepark which inevitably lead to the level of disenchantment surrounding the game today. I don't know if people actually hate the game (it's a very strong feeling to have towards a non living entity) but people certainly aren't happy with the mediocrity of it.
  • rodingorodingo Member RarePosts: 2,870
    I'm an SWG fan/vet in spite of all it's flaws.  I'm also a SWTOR fan/vet in spite of it's flaws as well.  I don't currently play either though.  However, I'm a Star Wars nut and have been since 1977.  I have a feeling that after I see Rogue One this December I will probably get an itch to play SWTOR again even though the story and timeline have nothing to do with each other.  Same thing happened last year with Force Awakens and KOTFE.  SWTOR is mostly standard theme park fare so if people "hate" SWTOR they probably most likely hate most if not all theme parks.  I also think most Star Wars fans look past it's flaws and accept SWTOR as yet another way to be entertained by its stories and lore as an extension to the Star Wars universe.  At least that's my take on it.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    I think people tend to forget the bad things over time and have an unrealistic remembrance of what the old KOTOR was really like.  It was an awesome game because of the story, the actual gameplay was nothing new and many times got quite boring and repetitive.  I think the story part of SWTOR is great, some are better than others but overall getting to play those main stories for free is amazing.  Getting to play the whole game with 500 cartel coins each month for the cost of a sit-down lunch is also amazing.

    I dont think players understand how awesome they have it in todays world.  I get free games from the playstation network each month and there are sooooo many free games out there that are great for a casual hour of play here and there like Star Trek Online and Paladins.  While I have many issues with today's gaming industry, the price of a monthly sub is not one of them.




    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • CogohiCogohi Member UncommonPosts: 70
    filmoret said:
    NorseGod said:
    How to enjoy SWTOR.

    1. Install game and Subscribe.
    2. Play every class to level 50 and finish each class story.
    3. Pick your 1 favorite character.
    4. Play that character to level 65 and finish the expansion stories.
    5. Skip group content.
    6. Unsubscribe and uninstall game.


    After beating the single-player game like a dead horse. I tried to get somewhat serious with HM FPs and Ops.

    Unless you're an "Officer" in your guild, you will NEVER do any group content that YOU want to do (especially older content). Which leaves you PUGing.

    While PUGing, I learned that people who have no business playing MMORPGs, feel entitled to. These people cannot/will not grasp the the most basic mechanics, prevalent in all MMORPGs. They are nothing but a burden to players willing to learn and achieve.

    I saved myself time, repair cost, and frustration by becoming an elitist snob.

    When running HM FPs:

    1. I check everyone in the group for 216+ augmented gear.

    2. I check everyone in the group for the Legendary Icon next to their nametag.

    If anyone is missing any of those in the slightest, I leave the group. I rather not have my soul eaten.

    EA has NO care for a loyal fanbase. They cater to the endless stream of F2P locusts to stay afloat. Level syncing, no new Ops, no class story is a sure sign that they are not going to invest into the game.

    Imagine if they shifted resources from gimmicks into making the game great.

    Things I would like to see fixed if I were to come back:

    1. The Engine.

    2. Group Finder needs restrictions. 
    a. Gear checks for HM content.
    b. Role check. - Tired of DPS queuing as Healer (w/off-healer skills) or DPS queuing as Tank (w/off-tank skills). 
    c. When in a HM, if one player hits spacebar, then it counts for all group members, ending the cutscene.

    3. PVP Mechanics.
    a. Fix Resolve/CC Break skill cooldowns OR nerf CC/stunlocking.
    b. Nerf certain DOTs (it's stupid what you can do with a sage/sorc).
    c. Players who do not accumulate objective points, get no reward. PVPing in mid like a selfish brat should be discouraged. 

    4. GSF.
    a. Give it a purpose. I like it, but I wish there was more meaningful impacts on the ground game.

    That's just the short list for myself, White Knights have no power here.


    Why does someone have to be a legendary player?  I have 6 of the 8 classes finished.  I literally have zero interest in ever playing the smuggler.  So I probably won't ever have the status.  Sounds like the real reason you have issues finding groups is your ridiculous requirements that need to be met.  The gear requirement I get, but the trivial "legendary" status is just confounding.
    I think he's talking about the endgame dungeons that are harder then normal.  Heroic or something.
    What do Heroic dungeons have to with Legendary status?  Legendary status is only literally you played each class once to level 50.  When I'm tanking on my Sith Juggernaut who gives a flying fuck if I leveled a smuggler or Bounty Hunter to level 50?  It's probably the most arbitrary requirement I've ever seen.
    It's worse than that.  It's you've finished the class story on all eight classes.  Using willingness to grind through eight story arcs as a prerequisite for group content is just the height of silliness.
  • ApexTKMApexTKM Member UncommonPosts: 334
    edited October 2016
    I hated swtor just like when I hated WoW back in the day cause it was different style of an mmo than I was use to. I was all out SWG mode. I have a hate/like relationship with WoW tbh with you, I like it because I learned to accept it for what it is, I hate it for inspiring LucasArts to turn SWG into WoW 2.0, I don't think I'll ever forgive them for that even though they "unintentionally" inspired LucasArts. WoW is a good game though and I think swtor is fine but not as good as WoW simply because WoW is an older game so it has that advantage and will always have that edge.

    I'm not trying to troll or anything I just want to address this. Every time a new mmo comes out they think will it be the WoW killer. People have the wrong question, its more like how will this mmo compete with WoW.

    "Compete" makes sense, "killer" does not in terms of WoW especially.
    The acronym MMORPG use to mean Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.

    But the acronym MMMORPG now currently means Microscopic Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game. Kappa.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    Filmoret can I ask how long you have been playing SWTOR? Not trying to bait o r anything, just curious. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • k61977k61977 Member RarePosts: 1,409
    filmoret said:
    k61977 said:
    azarhal said:
    k61977 said:
    I think most people hated on SWTOR because it was designed more as a single player game than and true group play MMO.  Sure it has group elements but you could do most of them solo without much effort.  Other than that when the f2p hit it was the most restrictive of any game out.  It didn't really allow for much other than just seeing the stories, anything else was extra money.  They have pretty much dropped the whole idea of group play now it seems with the storylines they are creating.  No new OP or any of that stuff incoming any time soon.  For what it is it is a great MMO for getting away and just enjoying some lore and stories.  I resub to it all the time to see new content stories and relax a little.  I don't take this game serious at all, it is my get away game.
    SWTOR was not a very solo friendly game at launch, it wasn't that much solo friendly until 4.0 last year actually (3.0 Marauder was an agonizing experience might I add). The majority of players aren't elite players, SWTOR wasn't solo friendly to them. Lots of players had to group just to go through class story/planet storyline related bosses that were supposed to be soloable (I helped lots of guildies with that). Killing stuff took way too much time for the number you had to kill just to travel around. Alderaan had that random difficulty bump. Heroics and Flashpoints were not solo content even if some Heroics could be soloed by avoiding mobs (or overleveling) or "solo" Flashpoint by overleveling them. Only a few classes really had an easy time (tank and stealth). The story aspect had CO-OP support until they released KotFK last year too.

     SWTOR wasn't originally designed as a single player game, the players played it like a single player game like every other MMOs they play because grouping with strangers sucks.
    It was very much solo friendly at launch for people that took their time and didn't try to rush through things.  The only people that I really remember saying it was hard were the ones that rush thru content skipping everything they could.  Those people didn't have good gear and normally were not prepared going into anything.  I remember going into the first flashpoint and having a guy show up with gear from the first couple quest still on.  It is those people that had hard times.

    Marauders are my least favorite class to begin with for me.  I don't like melee at all really.  Melee classes had it rougher than all the others, that I will give you. 

    Bounter hunters, sith inqusitor, sniper all finished up to 50 the first 6 to 7 months for me and I didn't really group all that much.  Hardly anyone I knew really grouped for anything other than a random heroic quest or instance.  Sorry the game was so hard for you but for many it just wasn't. 

    4.0 pretty much just slammed the lid on not being single player game, as that is what it is now and they are not trying to hide it anymore with the release of the last xpac and the upcoming one in Dec.  They have basically turned this game into Kotor III now which to me isn't really a bad thing.



    I agree with Azarhal here.  Yes there was like 2 classes where the game was easy but the rest struggled.  I had to keep all my modified gear updated like every 4 levels or I wouldn't survive 1 fight without using healing packs.  And that was with several different classes.  Rarely I could do a 2 person heroic but it was few and far between.  Not like it is now everyone can easymode all 1-55 content with the OP companion.  Even 4 person heroics.
    You pretty much said one of the things I said.  You had to keep your gear up.  You couldn't just go into fights and blaze through.  That does not mean the content wasn't easy.  It just meant you had to be prepared.  I have admitted that melee had a rough time but if you were playing any of the ranged classes it wasn't that bad for a lot of players.  Yeah now there is no doubt it is a single player game with the latest xpac.  The only thing I never saw as a solo player was OP's.  But I have played this game as a casual take my time kind of game since the start.  Just curious also which class you were playing that had a hard time?
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles Member UncommonPosts: 184
    I could never get past the graphics of the game.
  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,485
    filmoret said:
    Why do so many people hate this game?  I cannot understand it myself.  I find the game to be fun and the story to be good.  I'm not saying its the best game in the world by any means but its at least a 7-8/10.  So is your beef with the game something in your head or does it really exist?
    You play 3k matches of Hutball and then you'll understand. As a pvpr they went out their way to take the war out of star wars early on. It was incredibly boring. 
    "We see fundamentals and we ape in"
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    bcbully said:
    filmoret said:
    Why do so many people hate this game?  I cannot understand it myself.  I find the game to be fun and the story to be good.  I'm not saying its the best game in the world by any means but its at least a 7-8/10.  So is your beef with the game something in your head or does it really exist?
    You play 3k matches of Hutball and then you'll understand. As a pvpr they went out their way to take the war out of star wars early on. It was incredibly boring. 
    There is suppose to be some kind of endgame guildvsguild stuff for control of planets.  Also some other pvp stuff that I never got into myself.  But yea you can queue for specific warzones now you don't have to play huttball any more.

    Archlyte said:
    Filmoret can I ask how long you have been playing SWTOR? Not trying to bait o r anything, just curious. 
    I have about 10-12 different characters and had a guild with over 1k people in it.  Never quite reached endgame because I spent so much time messing with so many different builds/characters.

    @k61977  I played guardian, sentinel, powertech, shadow,  and most of their dark side counterparts ect..  After the original companion buff it was easymode for everything.  And now it somehow got right back to easymode.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    1k players in guild? What do you do as a guild, the Ops? Do you fill those groups regularly? I can't imagine what you guys are still doing in that game given the lack of stuff to do but hey, it's impressive that you are still there I guess. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
  • DKLondDKLond Member RarePosts: 2,273
    I don't hate it, but I don't particularly enjoy supreme mediocrity - which would describe even the better parts of the game. The only standout feature, I'd say, is the cooperative nature of the dialogues - which is neat, except for how rare a meaningful consequence results from interparty conflicts.

    I have no idea what people are talking about when they say story is the high point, as the few storylines I've completed have been forgettable at best.

    Maybe they're talking about the presentation of the story, which is good for an MMO - because of the cutscenes inherent in every dialogue. Unfortunately, the writing is mostly just filler and it feels utterly disconnected from the power curve and the actual gameplay. You're constantly told you're more or less the most powerful person in history - and yet you struggle with endless trash mobs. Then, when you finally meet the "super boss number 213" - you defeat him and his two guards without breaking a sweat, and that's literally the ending of almost every single arc in every single story. It's as if the writers were directed to have identical boss fights at the end of every tale - no matter what.

    There's a huge disconnect between the story and the balance - which is a terrible, terrible way to tell a story that's supposed to be one long powertrip.

    What I find most amusing is how the game has progressed in terms of development. Every single patch or expansion has been about reducing the amount of pointless combat and travelling around - and the game is STILL not close to a proper singleplayer story-based game. They're doing everything possible to take the MMO out of the RPG - and yet this huge game of several hundreds hours worth of story can't approach a proper KotOR 3.

    There's a lesson in there somewhere, if you're a suit and you look hard enough for it.
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Archlyte said:
    1k players in guild? What do you do as a guild, the Ops? Do you fill those groups regularly? I can't imagine what you guys are still doing in that game given the lack of stuff to do but hey, it's impressive that you are still there I guess. 
    I didn't babysit them.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,609
    I havent played it in quite awhile tbh but when I did play it the game felt like a single player game and not a MMO...I know they have supposedly put in some multiplayer quests and dungeons now, but i imagine it still feels like a story driven themepark for mainly solo play.
    Its funny thats something people pick. SWToR is one of the very few MMOs you can play all content teamed and they reward you for playing it teamed. Most "MMOs" dont do that at all. I know this because I play all content with my wife. Newer MMOs just dont get that. 
  • Furh79Furh79 Member UncommonPosts: 185
    Wow it's rather frightening reading some of these post about swtor.  I mean these people are writing paragraphs about why they don't like a video game!  Are you kidding me?  Apparently they spend more time crying about video games they don't enjoy then playing video games they do enjoy.  

    Now ive played my fair share of bad video games but maybe being new to this site I haven't drank the kool-aid where it's kool to write paragraphs about why you hate a video game.  Personally if you are writing paragraphs as to why you hate a video game on a site like this it's my opinion you have bigger issues then not liking a video game.  
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,409
    SWToR is a decent co-op RPG but a terrible MMO. Someone looking for a MMO experience would certainly disappoint with SWToR if not quite hate it.
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,409
    edited October 2016
    Furh79 said:
    Wow it's rather frightening reading some of these post about swtor.  I mean these people are writing paragraphs about why they don't like a video game!  Are you kidding me?  Apparently they spend more time crying about video games they don't enjoy then playing video games they do enjoy.  

    Now ive played my fair share of bad video games but maybe being new to this site I haven't drank the kool-aid where it's kool to write paragraphs about why you hate a video game.  Personally if you are writing paragraphs as to why you hate a video game on a site like this it's my opinion you have bigger issues then not liking a video game.  
    But today you're suppose to play every game. All games are designed to be played by masses, and if you don't like the game you're either a special snowflake or something HAS to be wrong in the game and it should be complained about on forums. /sarcasm

    On a more serious note, gaming industry has devolved in last two decades; they no longer produce great niche games but mediocre or okay'ish compromise offering something for everyone.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    deniter said:
    SWToR is a decent co-op RPG but a terrible MMO. Someone looking for a MMO experience would certainly disappoint with SWToR if not quite hate it.
    GW1 was a decent co-op RPG, and it did extremely well.
    SW:TOR is mostly a game about storylines, you can do it solo if you like, which means its easy to drop into, you can also play with others if you want, if anything i would say that SW:TOR is extremely casual friendly, which suits me just fine, its fun to play, but in terms of MMO, it is one, and it does have a decent number of social tools that players can use to communicate with each other, which in a time when MMO's are becoming less social with MMO's that have basically no social tools at all except for a limited voice comms option that most people disable by default, at least SW:TOR does have the kind of social tools that you would expect an MMO to have, if that is not an MMO experience what is, after all, the game has the equivalent of Raids, Dungeons and of course, arena pvp, should you feel the urge, so what MMO experience is the game lacking exactly? after all, not using tools or features in the game, does not mean they are not present. :o
  • ShodanasShodanas Member RarePosts: 1,933
    Hate ? Nah..this is nothing.

    I presume you where not around the months leading to TOR's release. There was a s**t storm on these boards with haters, detractors and fans going at each others throats 24/7. The closest example today is SC. However it is kindergarten compared to what went on 5+ years back regarding SWTOR.

    Ah, good times. :p
  • deniterdeniter Member RarePosts: 1,409
    Phry said:
    deniter said:
    SWToR is a decent co-op RPG but a terrible MMO. Someone looking for a MMO experience would certainly disappoint with SWToR if not quite hate it.
    GW1 was a decent co-op RPG, and it did extremely well.
    SW:TOR is mostly a game about storylines, you can do it solo if you like, which means its easy to drop into, you can also play with others if you want, if anything i would say that SW:TOR is extremely casual friendly, which suits me just fine, its fun to play, but in terms of MMO, it is one, and it does have a decent number of social tools that players can use to communicate with each other, which in a time when MMO's are becoming less social with MMO's that have basically no social tools at all except for a limited voice comms option that most people disable by default, at least SW:TOR does have the kind of social tools that you would expect an MMO to have, if that is not an MMO experience what is, after all, the game has the equivalent of Raids, Dungeons and of course, arena pvp, should you feel the urge, so what MMO experience is the game lacking exactly? after all, not using tools or features in the game, does not mean they are not present. :o
    A couple of years ago i read about a game in development where they talked how you could play most of the game offline and near max level you had an option to go online and join others for some group content. This game didn't make it - i presume - but as i see it, most of the games we now call 'MMOs' work just the way i described; you play solo or co-op up until max level, then you're given an option to join for group content.

    There's nothing wrong in this kind of design and it appeals to many gamers, but it's not what i'm looking for from an MMO. :)
  • Furh79Furh79 Member UncommonPosts: 185
    edited October 2016
    Shodanas said:
    Hate ? Nah..this is nothing.

    I presume you where not around the months leading to TOR's release. There was a s**t storm on these boards with haters, detractors and fans going at each others throats 24/7. The closest example today is SC. However it is kindergarten compared to what went on 5+ years back regarding SWTOR.

    Ah, good times. :p
    And I think what we have now is a few of the haters can't let go that swtor has done fine.  Sure they have had bumps and issues just like every other mmo.  The issue is these haters are so invested in hating a video game (as crazy as that sounds) they can't stop themselves from continuing their journey to bash swtor.  They are clearly desperate to finally be right that they predicted swtor will close so even if it takes another ten years they will continue to cry until one day they can proclaim they were right swtor would close...even if it took 10-15 years of them looking like a complete desperate idiot. 
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    Only game I know of that charges for hot bars
  • NanfoodleNanfoodle Member LegendaryPosts: 9,609
    edited October 2016
    Shodanas said:
    Hate ? Nah..this is nothing.

    I presume you where not around the months leading to TOR's release. There was a s**t storm on these boards with haters, detractors and fans going at each others throats 24/7. The closest example today is SC. However it is kindergarten compared to what went on 5+ years back regarding SWTOR.

    Ah, good times. :p
    SWToR's launch was a mess. Also many beta testers were upset that over many rounds of beta problems and exploits were posted and shared on the beta forums. None of them were addressed. Also the amount of problems with video cards made it a crap shoot if you could play. Mind you, most of that has been fixed over the years. 
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    deniter said:
    SWToR is a decent co-op RPG but a terrible MMO. Someone looking for a MMO experience would certainly disappoint with SWToR if not quite hate it.
    You are saying that every MMOs are terrible at the MMO experiences, because every MMO I played could have the majority of their leveling questing soloed along with solo daily areas, while dungeons and raids are the only group content (along with some PvP) which is no different then SWTOR (and with level sync added, a lots of stuff people soloed by overleveling them can't be soloed anymore). At least SWTOR has nice co-op for questing, that's already better than most MMOs.

    Also, SWTOR has a very generous grouping bonus, which is why since last year 4.0, players prefer to group for heroics despite being able to solo them and why speed leveling is done with a 4 player group. Also, solo flashpoints bosses don't drop loot, it's great to learn it and see the story, totally useless to get nice stuff.
  • ArchlyteArchlyte Member RarePosts: 1,405
    filmoret said:
    Archlyte said:
    1k players in guild? What do you do as a guild, the Ops? Do you fill those groups regularly? I can't imagine what you guys are still doing in that game given the lack of stuff to do but hey, it's impressive that you are still there I guess. 
    I didn't babysit them.
    I guess I missed the word "Had" in that message of yours. I watched no less than five guilds of hundreds of players each go down the tubes due to the dearth of depth in the game. I remember when the open beta was over and having only gotten to like level 16 I figured I was going to get a lot more depth in the release...and was sorely disappointed. The game was as bare-bones as could be, and one of the things that galled me the most was that there wasn't a cantina in the whole game with anyone in it. 

    Many on the forums joined the chorus of calls for more depth to the worlds, for more granularity and meaning to features. Knowing what I know now about the nature of these games I realize that the game was set in concrete. 

    I was then without my first MMO love (SWG), and also unable to play the new game because it was a marketing scheme that had killed its predecessor through backroom treachery. 

    I guess the only bright spot is that I will now be able to play anything RPG that is Star Wars (Battlefront was a shooter version of SWTOR: as simple a game as possible) and it should stand up pretty well to the detail-bereft SWTOR. The future looks grim for MMORPG and Star Wars. Disney thinks they have the box checked. MMORPGs are not the big thing they used to be. Players are showing more and more inability to withstand challenge, a learning curve, and any amount of freedom of choice. We are essentially in an era of MMORPGs where marxism has come in and taken root. Equality over achievement, the devs will see to your needs, take what you are given and don't complain. 
    MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
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